Archives

Current Prius shares underpinnings of today’s Corolla. The next generations will as well. (http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?p=22702#post22702)

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/501/2009_Toyota_Prius_III1.jpgWayne Gerdes - CleanMPG (www.cleanmpg.com) - March 20, 2007

The upcoming Prius III will share many structural and suspension components as well as engine size although highly modfied from the next generation 2008 Toyota Corolla.

Besides sharing a new three-link independent rear suspension, the 2009 Prius will be built with higher strength steel increasing rigidity for a more stable and safer automobile. It will be larger than the upcoming US based Corolla given the Corolla/Auris platform will be stretched in length and wheelbase for the Prius III, says development chief Hirofumi Yamamoto. Parts of the Auris' steel structure will be replaced with aluminum and plastic to maintain and/or improve the 09 Prius III’s fuel economy.

The Prius III’s drivetrain will supposedly include the 08 Corolla/Auris’ 1.8L block with an advanced lean-burn direct-injection system for even more performance and higher FE at highway speeds plus HSD-3 using Li-Ion battery pack with EV speed capability beyond that of today’s Prius II. PHEV-10 rumors still abound but are yet to be confirmed.

All in, the 2009 Prius III will more then likely be the hybrid class - sales leader yet again with higher crash test scores, better performance and handling, higher FE and even more features then what the Prius II offers today.

The Prius III’s drivetrain will supposedly include the 08 Corolla/Auris’ 1.8L block with an advanced lean-burn direct-injection system for even more performance and higher FE at highway speeds plus HSD-3 using Li-Ion battery pack with EV speed capability beyond that of today’s Prius II. PHEV-10 rumors still abound but are yet to be confirmed.

This whole paragraph just makes me giddy. :D Even given that I won't go out and get one right away (I have an '05 and I'm not about to swap cars every few years), if half of this turns out to be true it's really good news. :flag:

Yeah, that paragraph is awesome. While I still hope GenIII is a PHEV, those advancements alone are a big step.

I've always thought that a big incentive for the general public to buy for mileage would be simply being able to triple fuel economy without even trying. In the GenII you can only really double. But if you can get 60 in a GenIII without trying, and 80s with a bit of effort, then that's a big incentive that can't be discounted. Heighten the contradictions.............

Source please....

*edit: found it posted at PC
http://www.motortrend.com/features/auto_news/112_news070401_prius_goes_mainstream/

Someone has to post it....

Lumbar support?!?!

Hi Evan:

___I thought this item would wake some people up :) It is simply putting the pieces of the puzzle together … Some of the ICE details came out of Europe pre-Geneva as quoted from a Japanese Prius design manager and a Prius manager out of Japan about 3 months ago. The more recent suspension component quote came via a MT source. MT is not putting the pieces together however … And of course I added my own given how closely the current Prius II and current gen Corolla underpinnings are to one another. The independent rear suspension will finally bring the Prius’ handling into the realm of the Civic’s in fact!

___I was wondering how Toyota was going to increase highway FE with the weight but when you compare the Corolla (1.8L w/ a stick) at an EPA rated 41 highway vs. the Yaris (1.5L w/ a stick), EPA rated at just 40 highway with the Corolla being an even larger and heavier automobile, it all begins to fall into place. This is probably why Toyota decided on the larger 1.8? I thought they would have dropped to a 1.0 - 1.2 w/ a much stronger HSD but this appears not to be the case. More power and little to no loss in FE for highway speeds is the best solution in my book. Toyota was in no way going to manufacture an entirely different ICE for the Prius III (Corolla/Auris 1.8L block) just as they did not for the Prius I (Echo block) or II (Echo/Yaris block). Lean-burn w/ an Atkinson like valve control for volumetric efficiency gains and DI would allow almost diesel like highway fuel economy. If you have ever seen an HCH-I or Insight go Lean-burn, it is a site to behold. Removal/tight control of DI’s nasty habits through a much more tightly controlled RPM range via ICE control and HSD makes complete sense to me now. Yet another benefit is the larger ICE will have even more power for series battery charging. Running on E85 with something like this would probably be a cinch and more then likely better as inlet valve control could bring up compression to offset some of E85’s lack of Carbon and its resultant higher octane would prevent knock at the higher comrpession ratio(s). That one is a WAG for sure however. The negative to a lean-burn ICE is how is Toyota going to meet the SULEV-2 specs with one? The magic CAT’s aren’t quite here yet that I know of?

___Dan, I have seen nothing on the ergonomics or interior details. I know a lot of guys including myself want that telescopic wheel as well as seat lumbar and height adjustments. It is time to move the Prius into the mainstream in terms of mid-size performance and amenities but Toyota is probably very concerned with weight bloat.

___Good Luck

___Wayne

Why do they keep making the Prii bigger? The Gen II is bigger than Gen I, though the Gen II does get better FE, and now Gen III is going to be bigger than Gen II. My Gen I has more than enough space for anything I want to carry. I wonder how much better the FE would be if it was the same size as the Gen I Prius?

I can't wait to see some numbers for the FE of the Gen II Prius.

BTW, I nearly tripled my FE just by getting a Gen I Prius, though it did help that I was driving an Isuzu Rodeo before. Going from 17-18 to about 52-55.

What are the "nasty habits" of direct injection?
.
_H*

Hi Hobbit:

___Standard DI has not shown the large FE increases Toyota has set as a target for the Prius III. See Audi’s and Mazda DI based ICE releases for proof of practice.

___HCCI is a DI - Leanburn ICE variant w/ spontaneous ignition that I figure Toyota may try and introduce for the large increase in highway speed fuel efficiency discussed previously. See Bill Reinert’s ASPO video presentation for the Prius III fuel economy goals.

___From a Honda write up on HCCI: “It's a challenge to make an HCCI engine run smoothly at very low and extremely high speeds because of the difficulty in controlling the spontaneous combustion at both high and low RPM’s.”

___With lower combustion temps relative to a diesel, NOx emission in an HCCI are no more difficult to reduce then todays std. ICE’s. A std. PZEV capable TWC, EGR, MAF and sensors can bring emissions down to SULEV-2 levels. HCCI has thermodynamic efficincies approaching 50% and thus can beat a diesel on gasoline, propane, ethanol, methanol and even diesel for that matter. With HSD, you do not need to run the HCCI like ICE in regions where ignition control becomes difficult just as the 1.5 is choked down from high RPM ops in the Prius I and II today.

___Good Luck

___Wayne

Hi Hobbit:

___I should pull back on my commentary on the advanced ICE here as the only thing I have heard from the Toyota reps wrt to the Prius III’s ICE is it will be a 1.8L - DI w/ lean burn and even that can be changed at the last moment let alone 1.5 years out.

___Good Luck

___Wayne