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On the way in to work this morning the car wouldn't auto-stop. The temperature was around 20 and I bundle-up quite a bit so I didn't use the heat at all during my 40 minute commute. SOC was full, I also didn't have regen braking until I was close to work. I'm assuming this was due to the battery being too cold and was wondering if it is worth while to heat the cabin somewhat so the battery will warm up enough for full hybrid functionality? I don't know if assist was available as I use a cal-pod switch to disable it.

Exactly correct -- the battery was too cold. It should autostop to somewhere below zero if everything is warmed up and the HVAC is off.

Do you have a grill block installed? Some cabin heat could help with the battery temp (it pulls air from inside the passenger compartment like the first gen Insight), but of course that is a trade off when comparing to fuel used to provide the heat.

In lower psl areas, the HCH2 can also be driven in "S," which increases regen affinity even with a cold battery and also warms the IMA battery up faster as a result.

Unfortunately, there is no such setting in the HCH-I MT version. You should still have background regen, though? I typically get pretty heavy background regen in cold temps and cancel it out with the clutch mod. That's what warms the battery in my car.

Do you block your grill. Makes a big difference in the warm up time. H

Isn't there an auto stop inhibit based on the ambient air temperature sensor? Override this by replacing said sensor with a 2kOhm resistor for winter.

I was going to ask about this. I had to go on an errand this morning and despite coolant temps of 160-180F, I couldn't get auto-stop. The temperature was 15F and I had seen the SoC go from 20 bars, down to 19 bars, and back up to 20 bars but I guess maybe it wasn't enough activity to fully warm the pack? The engine did start off of the pack though. What is the usual temp when the 12V takes over the starting duties?

Larry, I've only seen it start off the 12V at well under 0F. -10F or so.

A lot of people have relocated their ambient air sensors from right behind the bumper to mid engine bay. My full grill block seems to insulate enough to allow me to auto stop at below zero when everything has been warm a while, but I normally just hit the FAS button anymore when it doesn't cut out.

Larry, I've only seen it start off the 12V at well under 0F. -10F or so.

A lot of people have relocated their ambient air sensors from right behind the bumper to mid engine bay. My full grill block seems to insulate enough to allow me to auto stop at below zero when everything has been warm a while, but I normally just hit the FAS button anymore when it doesn't cut out.

Hmm, sounds like I may have to look into this option. Step one, figure out what the sensor looks like.:p

Not having AutoStop and Regenerative Braking makes me wonder if the engine coolant just didn't warm up enough.

Hmm, sounds like I may have to look into this option. Step one, figure out what the sensor looks like.:p

It's a little black thing on the back of the front bumper. It is hard to miss as it is the only thing with wires going to it. ;)

It's a little black thing on the back of the front bumper. It is hard to miss as it is the only thing with wires going to it. ;)

:D Thanks Sean. I don't suppose I ought to relocate it to the inlet of the warm air mod huh?:p:D

That might be a bit TOO warm, Larry! :eek:

:biglol:
That might be a bit TOO warm, Larry! :eek:

I don't think I saw this mentioned - Did you have your rear window defroster turned on? That seems to completely disable auto-stop

I don't think I saw this mentioned - Did you have your rear window defroster turned on? That seems to completely disable auto-stop
You know what, I did have the rear defroster along with the front defrost on. Being so new to Insight ownership, I'm not sure if that was it or not. Sounds like an experiment is in order.

You'll need to turn off ALL HVAC to get autostop. No defrost and not even the fan turned on.

You'll need to turn off ALL HVAC to get autostop. No defrost and not even the fan turned on.
Ok. I'm assuming that means setting the temperature at it's lowest setting for the auto-climate models as well.

Actually, no. As long as the fan is off it doesn't really matter. I keep mine at 75F but the fan off except when I want to do a little clearing of the windshield. The mode is set to defrost and floor (which doesn't use AC).

Run in Auto mode set at about 70 deg. and it will auto stop when warm. Defrost stops auto stop.:D H

Wow, lots of responses. The lower grill is fully blocked, I'm not sure how to block the upper grill. It isn't so much a grill as two curving slits (I'm open to suggestions, especially from someone who has blocked the upper grill of this car).
Engine temp. eventually got up to normal, intake air was lower than it would usually be. On the way home from work yesterday I did have auto stop but it was a little warmer and the interior of the car had warmed (wouldn't really call it warm) some from sitting in the lot under the extremely filtered sunlight (couldn't really call it sunlight for the last two weeks either, grey-not-quite-darkness).
I didn't know the outside air temp. sensor played a roll so I will look into relocating that. Is there an x-gauge for that sensor?
So auto-stop is dependent on: water temp., intake air temp., battery temp., outsied air temp., amount of vaccuum, SOC and the car has to have been running for two minutes?
I don't know about the Insight-I but for the HCH-I there is a procedure you can use so that when the defrost is selected you can turn off the a/c (factory default won't let you). I don't have the procedure on hand but a google search would probably find it. I believe it still won't allow auto stop if the fan is on and defrost is selected though.

Yup -- you've got the list right.

I don't know of any XGauge to access that sensor output, but would like to have one as it would tell me outside temperature!

The Insight doesn't have a way to get the AC turned off (I did try the HCH method). Running defrost via the split mode mentioned above does the trick for me.

Ok. Thanks for the tips Sean. I'm headed out in a little bit for my daughter's voice lessons and will set the temp to 75F and put the position on floor/defrost and hit off to ensure the fan isn't on. The temp outside right now is 22F so heat will be more than welcomed by my daughter.;)

If there's anyone here who's handy with a soldering iron, I'm pretty sure I know how to override the heater control panel's authority to inhibit auto stop with a one wire cut (or was it a short? I'd have to look it up). Any takers?

Mister Pancake, I've got my upper grille blocked. I screwed a big pink brick of styrofoam insulation to the bumper cover, sanded it to the right shape, then applied fiberglass (with epoxy resin) and paint. I'm not great with bodywork, but someone who is could achieve a factory level of build quality with the same technique. It stays blocked year round.

The lower grill is fully blocked, I'm not sure how to block the upper grill. It isn't so much a grill as two curving slits (I'm open to suggestions, especially from someone who has blocked the upper grill of this car).

I don't know about the Insight-I but for the HCH-I there is a procedure you can use so that when the defrost is selected you can turn off the a/c (factory default won't let you). I don't have the procedure on hand but a google search would probably find it. I believe it still won't allow auto stop if the fan is on and defrost is selected though.

A couple of years back I blocked the upper grill slits with small-diameter pipe insulation; it requires a bit of cutting & trimming, but you should be able to fit it in the slits you're referring to. I can't remember if what I did was split it in half and then trimmed it, and placed it in...it's been a while since I used the pipe insulation, but I think I'll need to buy some again this year.

I'm not sure if the following link describes the exact procedure you're looking for (regarding the AC defaults), but it may be it:

http://www.greenhybrid.com/discuss/f12/2005-hch-mt-auto-stop-questions-1114/

Hi Gairwyn;

Indeed. Blocking the front grille is an absolute necessity if you want to lessen the impact of cold weather on the car. We just have to keep an eye on the engine temp during the warmer winter days, especially if the ambient temps go above the freezing point and then start removing the tubing as appropriate. 90C or 194F should be the temperature point you should not exceed. ;)

However, one thing about the these Honda hybrids we should remember is that while the engine temperature is very important it is not the most important.

As it has been mentioned the ambient temperature is the single most important attribute because it can easily shift the temperature threshold activation points around. To get a better idea of what I am talking about take a look at what happens in the HCH-II here (http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17560). Have a look at the temperature transition tables just to get an idea of how complex this really is.

Sure, the HCH-I has a few minor differences but the overall story unfolds pretty much the same way so it is important to take the ambient temp into account at least along side the engine coolant temp.

Then, there are many other temperature inputs that also play a role but their contributory weight is not as significant as many of us are let to believe. For instance, battery temp is a factor but not of significant concern until the temps become are as low or lower than -18C (0F). So if your cabin temperature is higher than this value then the battery will be fine too.

Lastly, if you relocate the OAT sensor located under the front bumper in the winter, make sure you put it back for the summer months. ;)



Cheers

MSantos

Robert: thanks for the suggestion but I want something I can fairly easily remove and something that doesn't require me to be outside for too terribly long (I should have come up with something this summer).
Gairwyn: I'll have to try some pipe insullation. Was it purely a friction fit or did you secure it with something?
That sounds like the a/c procedure, I already did it to my car shortly after I purchased it I was just mentioning it in case someone else didn't know about it.

Hmm, easily installed and removed? You're giving me ideas. Specifically, a 2k resistor in line with one of the wires going to the sensor to tell the car it's 80°F out, and a jumper (or a toggle switch) in parallel to short the resistor out for accurate OAT reporting during air conditioner season.

Maybe I'll try it and type up some notes over at InsightCentral or EcoModder. Or maybe I'll just keep FAS'ing.

It's that stubborn "no auto stop above 17mph" criterion that keeps me using FAS regardless of the weather.

17mph? Should be 21mph. Slightly higher than that if you are decelerating uphill. ;)

Robert: thanks for the suggestion but I want something I can fairly easily remove and something that doesn't require me to be outside for too terribly long (I should have come up with something this summer).
Gairwyn: I'll have to try some pipe insullation. Was it purely a friction fit or did you secure it with something?
That sounds like the a/c procedure, I already did it to my car shortly after I purchased it I was just mentioning it in case someone else didn't know about it.

I like to tie the pipe insulation so there's no chance of it being pushed inward towards the fans. I tried putting some pipe insulation into the upper slits today, doing just a friction fit. Sure enough I pushed it in a bit too far and it fell in behind the grille. I had to reach around in there to get it out. I like to tie the pipe insulation on with this stretchy black ribbon I got from a fabric store. You can probably find it at WalMart too. I think it's normally used for hemming into elasticized wristbands or something. Anyway, it's nice because it holds the pipe insulation nicely, it looks good (dark color, lies flat against the insulation), and the best thing is it's easy to stretch it a bit to remove the insulation on warmer days like Manuel suggested, and then re-insert it on colder days.

That is a good idea. I use tie straps ,but have to cut to remove the foam, where-as with your little bungees, you can just leave them for when you need them again.:Banane54:H