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Gary G. - CleanMPG.com (www.CleanMPG.com) - March 22, 2006

Hypermiling with the Ford Escape Hybrid

FEH at its best in an all-city/suburban environment.

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/506/Resize_of_06_Escape_Hybrid_City_Driving.jpg

The FEH has many built-in benefits not advertised that can be used to increase fuel efficiency (FE). As with most benefits, there are drawbacks that need to be recognized or avoided whenever possible. Both the benefits and drawbacks I discuss are my own personal observations and have helped increase the FE in my ‘05 FWD FEH. This is not a complete list of ideas, but I hope it will assist you as we all continue to learn about the FEH.

In my opinion, the driver’s habits and skills play the biggest roll in hypermiling any vehicle. The EPA has set a high mark for city and highway ratings for the average driver to accomplish or compare other vehicles to. Many drivers feel that those EPA ratings are not realistic, while others look at it as a challenge to overcome. Let’s use the term “Hypermiler” as a person who can maintain FE above the EPA ratings.

The FEH stock gauges fall short in providing the driver with what I consider to be important for FE. The gauges I feel that should have been stock are: Battery Level, Digital Instant MPG, Engine Load and Average Trip MPG. Some of these gauges can be added as I did with a Scan Gauge for about $169, which plugs in under the dash. The Scangauge-II is now available which is much smaller, better looking and improved. Up until now, the high voltage battery level was only provided with the optional $2,600 Nav. System. The newest Scangauge 11 can now be programmed to read the HV battery State of Charge.

FEH - Standard Instrumentation.

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/506/Resize_of_06_Escape_Hybrid_Gauge_Cluster.jpg

The “Fake Shift” (FS) is a term I came up with to describe a benefit built into the FEH. Letting off the gas pedal as you would in a manual transmission to shift gears is where I came up with the term. With a sudden release of the gas pedal in low gear, two things happen. First, the rpm’s drop to near 1,000 rpm’s and lets the gear set move closer to overdrive to keep rpm’s low. Second, a big charge is being sent to the HV battery by the regenerative (regen) braking system (traction motor) The lower the state of charge (SoC) in the HV battery, the more charge it accepts. This is important to remember because the ICE uses much more fuel charging the battery with a low SoC via the generator/motor. The fake shift takes the load off the ICE and recharges the battery much faster to increase FE. This allows longer and the more FE electric driving.

During acceleration, the FS was used to lower RPM’s and allow the gearset to go to an overdrive ratio. Recently, I found going to a RPM range and holding that RPM till the eCVT finds the most FE way to increase speed is better. At 1800 RPM’s, I find this to be the most FE way to accelerate. This is not always an option in traffic or when you are in a hurry. The FEH’s torque curve between 1,800 and 2,500 RPM’s is very good with FE at 2400 being the next best choice to 1800 RPM’s. Holding the RPM steady and letting the eCVT change ratio’s to accelerate seems to be better on FE than accelerating to a higher RPM and Fake shifting. Looking at the torque curve for the Atkinson ICE, 3000 to 3500 RPM’s is almost flat and I would avoid that range for accelerating.

The “Low Gear Advantage” (LGA) is a term I came up with to describe another benefit of the FEH. If all conditions are right for Electric Vehicle (EV) mode, shifting to low gear (“L”) under 43 mph and letting off the gas pedal can cause the FEH to go EV at 40 mph. Just before the tach drops, it will make a slight bump which will allow you to know when to shift to neutral “N”) before EV. This helps for a smooth glide down to an EV speed you can hold in “D” (up to 37 mph in some FEH’s). This can also be used in combination with the Pulse & Glide (P&G) for the FEH. You can also preset the cruise in “D” at say 35 mph and increase the speed to 43 mph, shift to “L”, back to “D” at the tach signal and glide to the preset 35 mph in cruise. Anytime you are in “L” and let off the gas pedal, you get regen if the battery needs a charge. The fake shift in “L” will give you even a higher surge of charge.

Setup and Warm-up … The tire pressure I prefer in the stock Eco Plus tires is 50 psi, which is over the max sidewall of 44psi which you take at your own risk. Before even considering starting your FEH, I recommend setting all adjustments before starting her up. Turn the key to IG-II without starting up the ICE to provide power and then make adjustments to the windows, mirrors, gauges, etc. Last item will to include fastening your seatbelt of course. Wait for clear traffic, start the ICE, and move ASAP to begin warming up the ICE’s coolant and light off the CAT. This is the best time to recharge the HV battery since the ICE must run anyway until both the inferred CAT light off and Coolant temperature are reached which will allow the FEH to run in EV mode. During the warm up, the FEH uses the electric motors as a primary source to propel the vehicle for the first few blocks. The FEH/MMH has a built-in warm-up strategy to retard the timing and keep the engine at an idle while the electric motors provide torque and vehicle acceleration. If you allow the engine to maintain this low idle during warm-up, the cat converter will heat up faster and reduce harmful emissions and reduced the time to go EV. If you accelerate and increase RPM's, you will prolong warm-up and EV time. A few “FS” in “L” at 30 mph will aid in getting the battery SoC back up to an acceptable level for FE. Once the battery level is up after the first few blocks, I accelerate under 90% load to speed and shift to “N” and glide as traffic permits. I drop her back in “D” and Pulse back up to speed slowly. Repeat. There is no regen in “N”, but the ICE can still turn the generator/motor for charging. If the ICE takes awhile to warm up, I use fake shifts in “L” to speed up HV battery recharge and maintain low rpm’s (below 2,000). If warm up is expected to be quick from a restart during a just driven segment on the same day, a fake shift in “L” may be needed for a low battery to start EV mode quicker. The electric motors will still be primary for the first few blocks if the FEH has been shutdown for over five or ten minutes because of this warm-up strategy.

Highway driving is something I avoid, if possible. If you drive on the highway, try to stay at the max speed at 1,800 rpm’s (60 - 65mph without a headwind). If you have the Scan Gauge, drafting is a perfect way to find and maintain the best FE. On average, a good draft can yield 45 – 55 MPG at speeds of 60 - 70 mph. It’s not uncommon to see over 70 mpg during drafting. There is a safe distance to maintain which large truckers don't mine, so up close drafting is not required.

When descending overpasses, I have seen as high as 200 MPG on the instant readout. Many hypermilers that drive other vehicles would not think this is possible, but it’s the way Ford set up the Atkinson 2.3L to handle higher speeds. Take away wind resistance in the FEH at highway speeds and it cannot be beat IMHO. During hot weather where the A/C is a must, take to the highways and draft safely. The A/C does not affect FE that much when drafting. Learn to expect > 43 MPG averages when driving on the highway. Gliding in “N” with slowing traffic and off ramps needs to be considered to maintain speed when needed. Gliding in “N” with the ICE running can give you a 38% improvement over gliding in “D”. As soon as you drop below 43 mph on any slow down or stop, use the LGA (shift to "L") to drop out the ICE completely.

High percentage highway driving - Near maximum FE expectation.

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/504/GaryG_s_FWD_FEH_20_Miles_City_70_Miles_Highway.jpg


High percentage city driving - Near maximum FE expectation.

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/506/60_1_MPG_Scan_Gauge_Shot.jpg

The fake shift can be regulated at the lowest SoC of the battery and maintain EV mode with a yield of an average > 60 MPG. In fact, the HV battery accepts a faster charge at its lowest SoC limits. This reduces the travel distance and time with the ICE running and increases the travel distance ratio in EV mode. In other words, instead of going 1.3 miles in EV until a low SoC starts the ICE, and then going 1.8 - 2 miles to recharge the HV battery in normal conditions, the opposite happens with a low SoC and the fake shift in “L”.

An example of this method would be as follows in 30 – 43 mph city driving:

Take the FEH to 43 mph no matter what the SoC. Shift to “L” and go EV at 40 mph as stated earlier and then shift back to “N”. Glide to an EV speed of your choice, shift back to “D” and hold as appropriate. DWL (Driving w/ Load) can be an EV mode enhancer when and where appropriate. When the ICE starts due to low SoC, slowly increase speed with one fake shifts while in “L” to 43 mph. Letting off the gas pedal in “L” will be your second fake shift before going EV and shift to “N” for the glide to your desired EV speed in “D”. After the ICE starts, repeat this scenario for as long as traffic allows. The distance in EV should far exceed the distance with the ICE running if properly performed. The fake shift in “L” can work anytime below 41 mph to go into EV and can reduce the ICE run time after a restart. Never worry about the battery SoC except for climbing hills and constant speeds above 40 mph. Use the fake shift to fill the battery instead of putting the load on the ICE when and wherever possible.

Steady state speed FE

Besides the various techniques to improve the FEH’s around town FE, her steady state FE capabilities are very good in their own right. All tests were performed over a 1.0 mile distance with tire pressures set to 52 #’s in mid 90 degree F temps.

Scan Gauge - constant speed tests - MPG Results

With Cruise Control||||
RPM’s|1,100|1,500|1,500|1,600 - 1,800
Run #|30 mph|40 mph|50 mph|60 mph
1|56.8 mpg|56.2 mpg|51.2 mpg|42.0 mpg
2|62.3 mpg|56.0 mpg|51.8 mpg|42.5 mpg
3|57.8 mpg|56.0 mpg|51.1 mpg|42.5 mpg
||||
Average’s|59.0 mpg|56.1 mpg|51.4 mpg|42.3 mpg
||||
Without Cruise Control||||
RPM’s|1,100|1,500|1,500|1,600 - 1,800
Run #|30 mph|40 mph|50 mph|60 mph
1|61.2 mpg|60.5 mpg|52.8 mpg|44.0 mpg
2|56.9 mpg|58.3 mpg|50.2 mpg|44.3 mpg
3|63.7 mpg|57.2 mpg|44.3 mpg|42.8 mpg
4|56.7 mpg|NA|NA|NA
||||
Average’s|59.6 mpg|58.7 mpg|49.1 mpg|43.7 mpg

The differences between using CC or not at the above test speeds on an absolute flat roadway with no traffic interaction are statistically insignificant in the FEH.

Important: Many of us drive in low gear ("L") thinking we are in the same state as drive ("D"). During my tests, I accidentally left the shifter in "L" and came up with astounding results. It appears that "L" at below 50 mph, there is still regenerative braking occurring while in cruise control. This must also be the case while not in cruise control. The result I was getting was a 5.1 MPG reduction at 30 mph while in the "L" position over the "D" position. At 40 mph, I was getting a 4.1 mph reduction in "L" over the "D" position. To sum it up, I will no longer be using the "L" position in the steady state cruising mode. In addition, I believe that using "L" in EV mode may reduce fuel efficiency. This is sort of like saying the "L" position causes an accelerate or brake (regen) "L" mode, instead of an accelerate and (light regen)"D" coast mode. Based on these test, I recommend using "L" for going EV and charging the battery only. Driving only in "L" will reduce your FE.

Still the best SUV available at this time ;)

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/506/Resize_of_06_Escape_Hybrid_Plant_Loading_Utility.jpg

This is a great SUV, learn how to drive it and get the most MPG possible!

Extremely impressed with your findings.

edit: Don't you think the guys who hang out in the escape GH forum deserves to be linked to this article?

Also wanted to add, you have an suv and you get better mileage than me! **** I'm jealous.

Thanks Phil:

Greenhybrid has a number of posters I would have to say lead to information in this article. The biggest find was the "Low Gear Advantage" which Nitramjr (Ray Martin) and Pravus Prime (Rich) brought to my attention about low gear or the lack of a low gear. These two were discussing driving at highway speeds in low, and getting better MPG. They brought up the fact of the ICE shutting down under 40mph in "L", something I did not know about. Pravus Prime was raising questions as to if this harmed the FEH and added this to a list of questions to be brought up at the FEH Dearborn Event. When I got the nerve to try driving in "L" at high speeds, I found the benifits and added them to my program of driving in EV as much as posible. This added about 3-4mpg to my averages. Many thanks to both of them for those tips.

The next person who I thank for this article and knowledge to make it easy to maintain even better MPG is xcel (Wayne Gerdes). Xcel came to FEH forum on GH asking me to perform test to nail down the Pulse and Glide (P&G) for the FEH. Xcel was far more advanced for me and most of the new FEH owners on FE. Most of the things he was asking, I knew would lead to a big advancement in FE, and was willing to try. He had ask me if I had or knew someone with a Scan Gauge for some of the test. Now, the Scan Gauge is part of most FEH owners equipment as a result of his original post. As a result of some gliding test he ask me to perform, gliding in "N" has increased mpg and FE in a number of uses in EV and ICE on. All these tricks have lead me from a hard 41mpg Tank in the city average to an easy 46mpg tank. More testing is needed, but I hoping to break >65mpg round trip (RT) real soon as a result in everyones help.

GaryG

GaryG
Junior Member

Gary,

Very interesting comments on your FE and how you do it. :D

Terry

Hi Terry:

Since EV mode is restricted in the FEH to about a 37mph sustained speed and wind resistance greatly increases over that speed, I take the maximum advantage of the FEH and EV I can. Travel roads under 45mph and your mileage will increase using EV to the Max.

This is a list of things I do:

1. HV Battery management: I always keep the battery less than half available now, unless driving a constant speed over 45mph which its fills after 1.8 miles anyway with the ICE/generator (much less with a few fake shifts which I due to reduce the load on the ICE). The ratio of EV and ICE On is in my opinion, 100-500% better when using the fake shift in “L”. If I can drive 20% ICE on 80% ICE off in EV, I can maintain better than 60mpg. The range varies with speed and “N” gliding.

2. Always park the FEH with the lowest posible HV battery. The ICE will always run when first started, so I use this time to increase the SoC. You can get up to speed and glide in neutral while the ICE is running and charging the battery. Great instant MPG readings on the scangauge can be seen during the normally worst time for FE. When in a 35mph speed zone, I increase to 40mph and glide just below 35mph and pulse using 1,800 RPM’s (78-82% ICE Load) back to 40mph and repeat. This increases warm up from around 21mpg for 2.5miles to a increased average to 32mpg. At this point, you are ready for EV with a full battery to continue a real increase in your MPG average and a great trip average overall.

3. I accelerate to speed by holding a steady 1,800 RPM’s whenever possible. When accelerating in traffic on an ON Ramp to a freeway, the best torque is at 2,200-2,450 RPM. A few fake shifts can increase to a full battery SoC while lowering RPM’s and placing the eCVT in an overdrive mode quicker. I try to avoid RPM’s over 1,800 and Engine Loads over 90%, but this can be unrealistic in every situation.

4. Shifting to “L” while decelerating will not give you the high charge that happens when you let off the pedal in “L”. For some reason, the release of the pedal plays a big part in the serge of charge by regen. Stay in “L” while in the Pulse mode to take advantage of the fake shift and regen. In the article, I stated three fake shift before the 40mph EV glide. Due to sensor problems with heat, avoid this with just two fake shifts if your having trouble getting ICE off in “L”. Remember to go to “N” and tap the brake pedal if this happens to get to EV.

5. Know where your average tank MPG is, and keep it as high as possible on every trip. If you want great MPG, pay attention to your driving at all times. Don’t just drive though, operate your vehicle like a fine piece of equipment because that what it is IMO.

6. Avoid oxygenated fuels (alcohol methanol) because they really affect the FEH’s Atkinson 5 Cycle ICE at least 10% mpg IMHO.

7. Draft when ever possible. The FEH loves when it is not fighting wind. Use much lower speeds in a headwind if possible. Use a little higher speeds with a strong tailwind (great for high EV speeds of 37-38mph).

8. I know the tire pressure I’m at all the time with a gauge and air pump with me in the FEH. At 44psi, I feel I’m safe, the tires will wear fine and the mpg is acceptable.

Hope you all can improve your FE with these tips

GaryG

Nice post, Gary. Very good info. Can you imagine the nationwide fuel savings if everyone in their FEH would employ some of these techniques? Thanks again for letting us try out your rig in Florida, it was lots of fun. See you later, Bill........

Hi Billy & Cindy

It was nice to have met you two, letting you both drive the FEH was a real pleasure. You were the best Sebring guide anyone could ask for. It was a great experience for me, and I will never forget it. Hopefully timing will be on our side again, and the four of you can stay with Rhonda and I here in Jupiter for the race next time.

Wayne and others may want here about this 32.8 mile round trip I took this morning to bring up my tank average from last week. This was on my best beach roads for driving with a 10mph headwind from the north, but I got the same tailwind coming back.

Here it is:

32.8 miles total from a warm start

63.0mpg average with battery SoC the same at the end of the RT.

.5 gallons used

Max RPM 2170

Max speed, 35mph

Average speed, 22mph

Hours, 1.4

Coolant max temp, 181F

At this speed, I use one fake shift in “L” while accelerating to 35mph at 1,800 RPM’s. Gliding was not a problem down to ~25mph in “N”, but I lost 5mph going EV in “N”. Speed limit was 30mph along a 9.2 mile stretch along Jupiter Island that I went 4 times back and forth. A higher P&G speed from 43mph will need to be done on roads with higher limits in the near future.

I think this is the number that needs to be beat with a FWD FEH. Not bad for a Ford SUV.

GaryG

I know the tire pressure I’m at all the time with a gauge and air pump with me in the FEH. At 44psi, I feel I’m safe, the tires will wear fine and the mpg is acceptable.

GaryG
Gary - Went out in the garage and checked the tire pressure on my FEH after it had been sitting all night and morning and had 42psi all the way around. I know it has been posted many times about the tire pressure (from 40 to 50psi), is this reading cold (like mine is now) or hot, say after a 2-4 mile ride?:confused:

Gary - Went out in the garage and checked the tire pressure on my FEH after it had been sitting all night and morning and had 42psi all the way around. I know it has been posted many times about the tire pressure (from 40 to 50psi), is this reading cold (like mine is now) or hot, say after a 2-4 mile ride?:confused:
VietVet'67
Junior Member

Phillip the tire pressure needs to be {Adjusted-Cold} and just as a Comment only. If you don't want to worry about how much Air Pressure to put in the tires. You can always put in the (Maximum Sidewall Pressure).

My HCH II calls for I think (without-looking) 42 Lbs. Maximum Sidewall Pressure. I have adjusted it to 50 1/4 Lbs. I like the (No-Flex) ride that it gives you with the Increased Tire Pressure.

So, once again to answer your, Question? COLD :D

Regards;

Terry
BTW; Off Topic Here, I read all the stories on Viet Nam, interesting:

Hi Phillip:

Terry is right, I set mine at 44psi cold which will increase as the tire gets hot. The 44psi cold is max sidewall for the stock Eco Plus tires. The only reason I don't go higher is liability as I've said many time. If I have a blowout and hurt someone, I don't want investigators finding over 44psi in the tires still full which may switch liability away from the manufacturer and solely on me. We could all get sued for a crash, but the manufacturer's insurance carries a bigger stick because of deeper pockets. I prefer to have them on my side of the table unless I'm suing them. We all pay for insurance, so why not be prepared for a claim if needed.

GaryG

VietVet'67
Junior Member

Phillip the tire pressure needs to be {Adjusted-Cold} and just as a Comment only. If you don't want to worry about how much Air Pressure to put in the tires. You can always put in the (Maximum Sidewall Pressure).

My HCH II calls for I think (without-looking) 42 Lbs. Maximum Sidewall Pressure. I have adjusted it to 50 1/4 Lbs. I like the (No-Flex) ride that it gives you with the Increased Tire Pressure.

So, once again to answer your, Question? COLD :D

Regards;

Terry
BTW; Off Topic Here, I read all the stories on Viet Nam, interesting:Hi Phillip:

Terry is right, I set mine at 44psi cold which will increase as the tire gets hot. The 44psi cold is max sidewall for the stock Eco Plus tires. The only reason I don't go higher is liability as I've said many time. If I have a blowout and hurt someone, I don't want investigators finding over 44psi in the tires still full which may switch liability away from the manufacturer and solely on me. We could all get sued for a crash, but the manufacturer's insurance carries a bigger stick because of deeper pockets. I prefer to have them on my side of the table unless I'm suing them. We all pay for insurance, so why not be prepared for a claim if needed.

GaryG Thanks Terry and Gary to both of you. That was also my thinking – Cold – but I guess I just needed a little validation. Yeah Terry on the FEH the stock Eco Plus is 44psi and I am with Gary on not wanting to go over that limit for a couple of reasons. One might be a blow-out and trying to get an exchange – ‘You had 60psi what did you expect’.
From the far reaches of my brain I remember something from one of my former vehicle instruction booklets saying something like ‘If you have been driving for a reasonable time, your tire pressure could be as much as 4 – 6 lbs higher than when they are cold – so take that into calculating what pressure you should be shooting for;’ Example: Cold temp to be 36psi you should be looking for 40 – 42psi when hot. Going to go with 44psi (adjust up 2 lbs) tomorrow.

Taking ‘driving habits’ out of the equation does anyone know of any other things (beside tire pressure, oil – and something I am going to leave – removal of the roof rack, AC - Max anything etc) that can be done to increase FE? Currently running Mobil 1 Full Synth 5w-20, 44psi etc. Has anyone tried the 0w-20 and if so any difference? Also say changing out the stock spark plugs for Bosch Platinum+4.

Thanks Guys – God Bless

Hi Phillip;

Your comments/questions are:
Taking ‘driving habits’ out of the equation does anyone know of any other things (beside tire pressure, oil – and something I am going to leave – removal of the roof rack, AC - Max anything etc) that can be done to increase FE? Currently running Mobil 1 Full Synth 5w-20, 44psi etc. Has anyone tried the 0w-20 and if so any difference? Also say changing out the stock spark plugs for Bosch Platinum+4.

I take it that you can adjust the (Climate Control) to what ever temp you want. I would and do set mine at like, 78-79 Degrees. And "Never" on Max. This allows the system to actually cycle on and off. Which will give you additional FE/MPG.

Speaking of Oil. I would go with the, "Mobil Full Synthetic=0-20" This will give you the protection and the Lightest Oil for Start Up's. Plus added FE/MPG.

Cannot really (Honestly) make a comment on the change of the "Spark-Plugs". I run what comes in the Vehicle from the Factory and I think they Last for like 100K.

HTH (Hope-This-Helps)

Phillip, I'm now using 5-20W Mobil 1 as I just found it in Walmart for the first time. Bought the oil filter at the Dealership with both oil rings for $12 as a package now. Xcel said that I sould have used the 0-20W, but that's not what everything calls for. Anyway, it much warmer here in So. FL and I'm breaking my own FE records everyday. Most of the time now I try to maintain a >50mpg tank average and keep the scangauge showing the Tank MPG display. Cold starts are a pain to catch back up with, but you can't let them sink you. During warm up is the only time I get a full HV battery before I start using EV anymore.

As far as spark plugs, stay with the stock motorcraft part #. The system is set for them and may not like any other ones. The way I drive at low RPM's and EV, mine should last 200,000 miles. Taking care of the connections would be a bigger concern IMO. The only mod that I do is use RainX on my windshield. Mainly because I draft above 50mph and don't want a cracked windshield.

Try doing as much 1,800 RPM accelerating as you can. Just hold the tach there till you get to the speed you want. The Atkinson 5 cycle's torque curve is just about flat from there to about 2,200 rpm's. Jump to 2,300-2,400 and hold if you have too, this is the next best torque range I've found. Get back to 1,800 ASAP. Very rarely do I use the fake shift now to lower RPM's. It was great when I was growing up, but now I'm not so heavy on the go pedal as age has settled in (one year).

GaryG

Hi all, I'm new here. My situation is I am a retired engineer, and my Wife and I went to the Nashville Auto Show yesterday, and now she wants to get a Mercury Mariner Hybrid, because gas prices are so high. We have a perfectly good 2000 Ford Explorer 4.0L SOHC that gets an average of 20 mpg, with 133,000 miles on it, and everything on it works fine. The only thing that doesn't work is the gas tank, it keeps getting empty too soon. I have been thinking about a hybrid, but I was hoping to wait another 4 years.

Thanks for the excellent forum thread! It sounds to me like many of the tricks you use to get good mileage could be programmed into the Escape computer strategy. I'm sure having worked at Ford Engine for 18 years, one reason Ford engine engineers don't offer this strategy is because so many customers who are comfortbale with todays vehicles would complain about the driveability.

Maybe Ford needs to take a risk and offer a high mileage "button" with some disclaimers attached, like please ignore jerks and noises in this mode, but you will get better mileage if you push this button. I think you would get a lot of happy customers who care more about MPG than driveability, as long as they know the car is functioning OK.

A question I have to you FEH enthusists, is there an aftermarket product that will allow you to charge the battery off of 110 or 220 VAC? That should really reduce your gas consumption for a high percentage of drivers.

Hi all, I'm new here. My situation is I am a retired engineer, and my Wife and I went to the Nashville Auto Show yesterday, and now she wants to get a Mercury Mariner Hybrid, because gas prices are so high. We have a perfectly good 2000 Ford Explorer 4.0L SOHC that gets an average of 20 mpg, with 133,000 miles on it, and everything on it works fine. The only thing that doesn't work is the gas tank, it keeps getting empty too soon. I have been thinking about a hybrid, but I was hoping to wait another 4 years.

Thanks for the excellent forum thread! It sounds to me like many of the tricks you use to get good mileage could be programmed into the Escape computer strategy. I'm sure having worked at Ford Engine for 18 years, one reason Ford engine engineers don't offer this strategy is because so many customers who are comfortbale with todays vehicles would complain about the driveability.

Maybe Ford needs to take a risk and offer a high mileage "button" with some disclaimers attached, like please ignore jerks and noises in this mode, but you will get better mileage if you push this button. I think you would get a lot of happy customers who care more about MPG than driveability, as long as they know the car is functioning OK.

A question I have to you FEH enthusists, is there an aftermarket product that will allow you to charge the battery off of 110 or 220 VAC? That should really reduce your gas consumption for a high percentage of drivers.

VonoreTn

Just wanted to say, Welcome to CleanMPG and as you have already noticed their are members here that have alot of info. on getting high FE (Fuel-Economy).

Terry

A question I have to you FEH enthusists, is there an aftermarket product that will allow you to charge the battery off of 110 or 220 VAC? That should really reduce your gas consumption for a high percentage of drivers.

I'm not an owner of a FEH, but I know there is a manufactuer selling or soon to be selling this type of thing for the Prius. I believe it will be the next evolution, and Toyota has made comments about the next prius having this option.

I'm not an owner of a FEH, but I know there is a manufactuer selling or soon to be selling this type of thing for the Prius. I believe it will be the next evolution, and Toyota has made comments about the next prius having this option.

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2006/02/hymotion_unveil.html

if you don't mind the $10000 price tag but if you drive than less than 30 miles a day it could be a good option hehe.

From what I read $10K was for orders of 100 or more.

If you spent $1000/Year on gas it would take 10 years to break even. Moneywise its not worth it. However, there may be more reasons that money to do it. It would help reduce emissions. And I'm sure there are other benifits.

ya EV's are so quiet which is my #1 reason for liking them.

Hm why is GaryG escape yet weights twice as much as mine but get better mileage, I guess the power of the electric motor is that crazy huh? And the efficencies of mechanical energy to electrical is pretty good on Ford's part and as a bonus its the quietest SUV you can buy next to the Toyota hybrids.

Although if Gary had a prius in his hands, and decides to drive exactly the way he did now (abit with a few modifcations) I wonder what his mileage would be?

Shannon, from the Yahoo FEH Group ask this question. For a newbie FEH owner, it’s hard to know where to start with any “hypermiler”/FE tricks, rank opportunites?


1. The best way to start with FE, is stop using fuel every chance you get. This simply means shut down the engine (ICE) to glide or stop. The three ways to do this in the FEH besides automatic is FAS (force auto stop) by turning off the key, and under 40mph, tap the brakes or shift to low gear after the ICE is warmed up. Note that FAS is a great way to save fuel with a cold ICE. A cold ICE uses much more fuel and reduces MPG while warming up and even more sitting still at a stoplight. Also, you will find that FAS will reduce the distance for warm up to go electric vehicle (EV). Turn the key off if the system will not shut off when not needed. The FEH was made for on/off ICE operation. Also, make all adjustment and check for traffic before starting the ICE.

2. Limit fuel going through the ICE as much as possible. Your right foot needs to be retrained for this. Accelerate at 1,800 RPM’s (hold 1,800 till you reach final speed) or max 2,300 to 2,500. The torque of the ICE at 1,900 to 2,200 is limited and not FE. Back off the accelerator at final speed as much as possible to maintain speed. That 1,900 to 2,200 RPM range is not a good place to hold for FE.

3. Use EV as much as possible. This means drain the battery when ever you can. If you don’t have a Nav sys energy screen with the battery level, don’t let that stop you. Your job is to get every bit of energy from that battery as possible. This is a hybrid, don’t let the battery sit there, use it! Drive slower roads, city and behind trucks. Using EV can increase your MPG average over 60mpg on a trip and increase your tank average over 40mpg.

4. It is very important to know battery management for EV driving and ICE/electric assist to increase FE. The maximum you can drain the FEH battery in normal driving is to the 40% level. The maximum the battery will charge with the ICE/generator is just below 60%, this leaves regenerative braking to bring the level up to a full 60% level. Any charging above 60% will be used to force the generator to burn off energy by turning up the ICE RPM’s in a neutral state (not moving the Vehicle). Knowing the strengths and weaknesses of the battery and charging system allows you to increase FE. The ICE burns more fuel turning the generator with a low SoC (state of charge) of the HV battery. This is because the battery can take a faster charge at the lower level causing the ICE/generator to work at maximum load. The distance at 30-35mph to charge the battery from ~40 to ~60% is about two miles with the ICE/generator under normal conditions. At these speeds in EV, the distance to drain the battery is about 1.2 miles. The MPG you can get driving the FEH in EV draining the battery and charging it with the ICE/generator is about 60mpg. If you want to increase the 60mpg, you need to take advantage of the battery and charging system manually. So far, I’ve pushed the FEH to 68mpg in a 30mph speed limit with limited traffic and increased my averages over all roads under 50mph limits. Keeping the battery level as low as possible (below 50%) will allow you to use the ICE when it’s needed for speed. The ICE/generator will top off your battery to be used later for a longer EV distance to regain your higher average. Driving EV with a low battery and using fake shifts in low (“L”) to assist the ICE /generator during charging, is the key to improve distance in EV and increasing FE. When the ICE is started because of a drained battery, charging the battery with the regenerative brake system (fake shift) and the ICE/generator will quickly pack a charge in a short distance. Letting off the gas pedal in “L” (fake shift) twice in a distance of say two blocks, can give you a charge that may carry the FEH four blocks in EV. The low SoC is causing the ICE to drink fuel during this time, but the distance in EV makes up for the lost and more for better FE.

Always use “L” for slowing if the battery can use a charge. If more braking is required, use the brake pedal but apply as easy as you can. This will cause the traction motor and the wheels to generate the most charge to the battery and save your brake pads and rotors.

5. Glide in neutral to maintain a higher speed longer whenever you can in EV or ICE On. Tapping the brakes in neutral can shut down the ICE under 40mph to improve FE even more. Pulse (accelerate) at 1,800 rpm’s or EV and glide in neutral any time you can. Gliding during warm up will improve FE. This is part of my warm up every day.

6. Draft whenever possible.

7. Always try to park with a drained battery.

Ranking these opportunities for better FE is not easy. Maintaining 44psi in your tires maybe hard to do, depending on how fast they leak down. One tire I have has to be checked every five days and the others at fill up. Having a scangauge is something I wouldn’t be without. It has helped me determine what works for FE. The amount of fuel used instead of the amount you put in the tank is the only way you can determine your FE in the FEH IMHO. Resetting the tank refill on the scangauge will give the information needed at fill up.

GaryG

3. Use EV as much as possible. This means drain the battery when ever you can. If you don’t have a Nav sys energy screen with the battery level, don’t let that stop you. Your job is to get every bit of energy from that battery as possible. This is a hybrid, don’t let the battery sit there, use it! Drive slower roads, city and behind trucks. Using EV can increase your MPG average over 60mpg on a trip and increase your tank average over 40mpg.

I always thought using the battery was not optimal for two reasons. 1) what you drain out of the battery has to go back in which drains fe while charging it, 2) mechanical to electrical to mechanical conversion is not as efficient as using just mechanical energy.

Your mileage is far greater than what I get so I know you know much more than me about this stuff, but I'm confused as to why I'm wrong in my thinking.

Hi Tom

Your not alone in your thinking about replacing the energy with burning more fuel. It maybe the case with the Honda, but not the FEH. At 30-35mph, the FEH may average ~36mpg for the the two miles to recharge the battery. Now add the EV distance of 1.2 miles at 9,999 MPG (scangauge reading) to come up with an overall average for 3.2 miles.

The icing on the cake is the fake shift in "L" which packs a big charge from regen when the battery is low or high. So much energy is packed in the battery so fast, three shifts will overheat the system and safety features will not allow any more regen. Hoping to hit Wayne's estimate for the FEH of 72-75mpg RT real soon. Just had to much wind here lately.

GaryG

crazy you should have map with details on your 70 mpg segment.

Hi Phil

Got my FEH to just over 70mpg for 25 miles today with 10-15mph winds. Was hoping to bring it home and takes some pictures but ran into traffic and the MPG started dropping off. In the beginning of the trip I didn't have it all together but found a good pattern and started hitting 71.8mpg on the low side of the battery at ICE start, and 68.5mpg good to go for another EV run of P&G. At this point, I know if I get my act together from the start and run a clean trip, I'll hit 72mpg for sure. The windows were all down to max because it was about 90F outside. Wayne will be right on with 72-75mpg with me driving, I just need a good day now. We also know Wayne would be able to push the FEH another 15-20mpg over any other human on this earth. BTW, this was with no FAS with the key.

GaryG

I say we put up money to put xcel and krousdb on the same stretch of road at the same time for an FE race. It could be a fun competion as both are VERY good.

It would almost be worth showing up just to see that. Let's see how high their mileage is with the rest of us piled into the car watching their technique. :D

Oh, I just remembered. They will probably both be at hybrid fest. We may need to have an "invitational" class where the elite are in their own class.

wow hm..... i thought windows down is such a FE killer, even in the city. It makes me feel my coasts are dragged down so I rather take the heat ;) No ac air is good enough most of the time anyway.

With regard to charging Escape Hybrid batteries in our homes, there is something missing here. These are just batteries we are charging. With the correct, available AC to DC voltage converter, and maybe a voltage step device, anyone can charge any battery off of either 110 or 220 volts AC that we have in our houses.

I assume the Escape Hybrid battery pack ends up joining several batteries in series to operate at a higher than 220 volt DC level. It still can be done. We only need to know how the engine charges the same battery to figure out how to make a cheap battery charger.

The EDrive and Hymotion kits are fine, professional packages for fleet operators, but there has to be a huge aftermarket low budget option for current HEV owners.

Get back to me by email if you have any insights, suggestions, recommendations.

If someone needs to charge the battery quick, the fake shift in "L" will do the trick real fast. The present system really doesn't another charger from an AC house plug IMHO.

Well, today marks another day of a 70+ RT and its starting to get easier to improve. Total distance was about 20 miles with 10 miles with a tailwind at 10-15mph and a strong dead on headwind of the same coming back. Kept the start better for the first 10 miles and the scangauge read ~78mpg low start battery and a ~73mpg with the battery ready for the glide again. Things turned around with the headwind and caused my average to drop to end up with 70.3mpg. The windows were fully down again but I may raise them next time going against the wind. Had alot of gust inside the FEH but was tring to hold my average and wasn't thinking about the real problem. On a calm day, I think the FEH is good for 75mpg just as Wayne predicted.

The trip was from my house north to Hope Sound National Refuge on Jupiter Island. Perfect beach road with the most expensive estate's in our Country. The police watch the speed limit of 30mph just great and golfcarts have the right of way. It is a two lane road with no passing along about 50% of the road. Except for the wind and traffic, I had ideal conditions for the FEH.

GaryG

Hi Gary:

___I think you are now crowned the absolute premiere FEH hypermiler on the planet :D

___Having driven John’s (GPSMan's) and knowing I was in the 65 + range given the 10 + miles of State highway after our 20 + miles 60.0 maxxed FCD before she dropped back under 60.0, I know I was maxxed. His FEH is slightly easier to hypermile in then yours too! That night you and I had in your FEH with a dead SoC, ~ 2 blocks of ICE-On with 2 fake shifts, and at least another ½ mile of EV/Glide afterwards impressed me as much as Dan’s Prius II’s during last years “Marathon Attempt”, Tom’s HCH when he “Took the gloves off”, and the Insight’s Hypermiling Tour of Illinois “Attempt” back in 04. The Fake Shift is what has pushed you and your FEH into the hypermiler hall of fame in my book and I cannot wait to see your first 75 + mpg segment. God only knows where you are going to end up but after seeing your capabilities with my own eyes, wow! Boy do I wish the Ranger had your FEH’s drivetrain right about now ;)

___Good Luck and congrats.

___Wayne

Hi All:

___And here is a pic of Gary G’s SG in his FWD FEH after pushing it ;)

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/504/Gary_G_70_3_MPG_FEH.jpg



There were strong headwinds which brought my mileage down to a final 70.3 mpg for 20 miles. I took the pictures and some didn't turn out good but it's too late to do anything about that. The fuel used if you can read it is .3 gallons.___Good Luck

___Wayne

GaryG, quick question. Seeing as the FEH is an automatic, are you concerned about shifting between gears on a frequent basis to achieve such high MPG? Might this wear on the transmission and possibly cause premature failure? After all, it is a Ford . . .

Hi John,

Not at all, the eCVT is built with no chains, belts, bands torque converters or normal transmission parts. Changing gears is not done by linkage, only software. The only time changing MODES you get a jump, is if you have your foot on the gas or brake. That might be a little hard on the axles because it's not a smooth change. There is no reverse gear, the traction motor turns the other way to go backwards. Same thing with LOW GEAR, there isn't one. You can drive the FEH 100mph in "L" because of the way the planetary gear set works. There is no shifting going on in the FEH eCVT and the designers claim it will out last a normal automatic because of it. You can tow the FEH in neutral over 70mph safely with all tires on the road. Letting off the gas pedal in "D" or "L" causes the traction motor to act as a generator. In neutral, the traction motor is prevented for being a generator (regenerative braking) and this allows for a very good coast or glide as we refer to it. If I'm under 40mph, I go EV and glide, over 40mph the FEH glides better with the ICE running. In the morning, I glide as much as possible, while the small generator recharges the battery with the ICE. Gliding under 40mph while the ICE is warming up is great also, but I grab "L" for a charge boost when slowing.

I've read damm near every patent on the FEH eCVT, and if it fails, it will be more than likely electronic. It carry's a 8yr 100,000 mile warranty, more in some green State's. The only repair at the shop is reprograming, other wise, replace the eCVT if that doesn't work.

I don't do any shifting on the move with my '02 Explorer automatic, till I learn that it's safe. Maybe someone here can help me out on that subject.

GaryG

It’s time I shared some details for breaking 70mpg so everyone driving a FEH can benefit with my technique if they care too. This is not going work for everybody, but it may help you put together a similar technique for yourself or improve mine. I’m hoping I can perfect the technique to hit up to 80mpg on a short round trip. This sounds real strange for a SUV, but so does paying $5 a gallon for gas in the near future.

You may have to read the original article here to understand the Fake Shift better, but if you have any questions, just ask.

If you can travel a road with a 30mph limit, this would be my choice to get from point A to B. EV is the sweet spot of the FEH and what I did was take advantage of it. You can get excellent FE at higher speeds and I do, but if you want to squeeze it all out of FEH, under 35mph is where it’s at. You need a scangauge or something that measures a trip average over 80mpg. The Nav sys is only used for the battery level to know where your State of Charge (SoC) is. You can still hit those high numbers without knowing the SoC, if you follow my instructions carefully.

When you go EV, the scangauge reads 9,999 instant MPG. Your SG may show your reset trip average at over 2,000 mpg if you start with more than a half full battery in EV. As the ICE starts, that number will quickly drop depending on how long the ICE runs. The key is to get a charge as quick as possible and get back into EV. I’m going to guess and say the ICE ran less than 25% of the trip. Also, I would estimate that 80% of charging was from regenerative braking (regen) using the fake shift. When your forcing the regen to charge this fast, it has a limit. This will cause the system to reject EV with “L” or tapping the brakes in “D” or “L”. If this happens, shift to “N” and tap the brakes lightly till you go EV. For this reason, two fake shifts work great in my technique. Also, the distance you can travel in EV is near or over four times the distance it takes to charge.

As I’ve posted many times, the battery takes a charge the fastest with the lowest SoC, this is at the restart of the ICE to charge. It is the time to give the battery the quickest charge with the fake shift and go EV again ASAP. Two fake shifts in “L” , one at ~30mph and the other at ~32-35mph with the second fake shift causing you to go EV. When the tach indicates a fall to EV, shift to “N” for the glide. Do not let your speed fall below 20mph before you accelerate back to ~32mph in EV for another glide in EV in “N”. If I had someone on my tail, there was no problem gliding to ~25-27mph and accelerate to 32 in EV for another glide. You may get three glides in EV by keeping the speed up. Two glides in EV max (one from ICE off and one from the climb back to ~32mph) if you drop below 25mph. Most of the time, the start of the ICE is between ~25-27mph during EV acceleration to the second EV glide. After restart for the small generator to start charging, begin to accelerate at 1,800 rpm’s to 30mph for the first Fake Shift. Letting off the accelerator in "L" for the first fake shift, will give you a good charge without going EV most of the time (generally dropping to about ~27-28mph). If the ICE starts to shut down, accelerate to keep it running. This may cause you to make an addition fake shift between the last one to go EV. You just have to feel the first fake shift was to short and not enough charge and do a quick extra fake shift to make up for it. Anytime you come to a stop, get all the regen you can to help you get back to ~32-35mph again. If you know your coming to a stop, get two fake shifts and glide to the stop in EV from the longest distances from the stop. Place the shifter in “N” at a stop to keep the ICE off. If the ICE will not shutdown at a stop or you get a restart, use the key if you can’t get moving right away.

Don’t rush anything, slowly accelerate at 1,800rpm’s and act like a pro with timing and relax. It took me a few months with this technique to break 70mpg. Lets see what the AWD can do, you may have to adjust EV speeds and get those tires up to 44psi. Remember, I have 22,000 miles on my FEH and you newbee’s may have to wait awhile to push the limits. Only use this technique when and where it's safe too!

GaryG

Hi John:

___He understands the difference between MG1 and MG2 charging just fine but you are not taking FS to its conclusion. It is not just a simple fake shift for rev’s sake but also a dose of regen that brings the SoC up from a very low level to an adequate one in such a short distance. He really has discovered a unique method of forced charging I did not think would help but it works pretty darn good in the FEH if I do say so myself.

___Good Luck

___Wayne

To help answer the email and post on GH in one thread, I’ll post it here.

The term “Fake Shift” came from me after I first drove my FWD FEH in Feb. ‘05. In the beginning, I felt the transaxle (eCVT) was revving to high and needed to settle in a overdrive gearing to reduce fuel consumption of the engine (ICE). If I let off the gas pedal for a few seconds and slowly reapplied, the engine RPM’s and eCVT would settle into an overdrive relationship to continue. Also, I notice that when I let off the gas pedal, the charge needle jumped and sent a charge to the battery. The reason I gave the name “fake shift” was because it was like changing gears in a manual transmission without using a clutch and manually shifting gears. Letting off the gas pedal in drive (“D”) soon became a way to force charging into the battery with the regenerative brake system(regen). The regen system is using the traction motor to take energy from the wheels and charge the high voltage battery. When you press on the brakes, the computer changes the mode of the electric traction motor to become a generator. The same thing happens when you let off the gas pedal in “D”, but if you shift to “L”, you get even more energy from the traction motor. In addition, if you apply the brakes, you get the maximum energy out of the traction motor as a generator. The fake shift has become a term to reduce RPM’s and the biggest benefit is to recharge the HV battery for maximum EV driving.

The Pulse and Glide (P&G) was before my time and my guess it came from Wayne Gerdes (xcel) because he seems to be the master of it. In simple terms, it means to accelerate and coast. For the FEH, I found that accelerating at 1,800rpm’s or EV give’s me the best FE. The glide or coast I prefer is in neutral ( “N”) which xcel brought to my attention with testing. Shifting to “N” removes all regen which reduces drag.

Using the fake shift in “L” was a major breakthrough in FE for the FEH. It reduces the time and distance to recharge the HV battery allowing a greater EV time and distance. Wayne Gerdes got to test the fake shift in “L” in my FEH in March of this year to reach EV distances he could not believe. The potential of the FEH FE keeps growing and I wish you all good luck.

GaryG

Hi Gary -

Still looking forward to getting to FL mid summer and will let you know the specifics when “I” do know them, you know how it is, We Men are the last to know - would very much like to meet you and see the master in action :). Plus would like to plug the ScanGuage into my 4WD and see what the differences are, if any.

I use the fake shift all the time to give the battery a quick hard shot of juice. I have noticed a slight give/play if I let off the gas quickly so I have started to use a slightly slower letup on the pedal. Looking at the charge/assist meter the charge goes just as deep and I don’t feel the – I guess the best way to describe it is ‘Slack’.

In your statement "The ICE burns more fuel turning the generator with a low SoC (state of charge) of the HV battery. This is because the battery can take a faster charge at the lower level causing the ICE/generator to work at maximum load."

In stead of saying ‘a faster charge’ - Would it be stated wrong in saying, 'that the lower the SoC the bigger the load put on the ICE to charge the battery, thus more fuel used at this level, but as the SoC increases the load on the ICE decreases proportionally, thus your instant FE increases as the SoC increses. At full SoC the ICE is not used at all to charge the battery - this is where you get your best FE while/if using the ICE.'

Just a question, but if I am completely wrong about the concept of 'Battery Management' - Let me know - Sure You Will :)

Hi Phillip

Looking forward to meeting you and there is no problem plugging in my scangauge in your AWD.

Your description of battery management is right on and worded better. Feel free to help me out here because, it's clear you understand what I try to say.

Thanks, GaryG

Edited Quote:
Hi Gary, et. al.

Gary... I also understand what you are saying, and I agree that what you are doing works, because it works in my FEH as well. The fake shift is a great name, because that is exactly what it feels like, and simulates what it would do in an automatic car. ( Although some new people get confused with the gear select shifter and want to know how you fake shift that.... )

#3 Coasting in N is not 36% better than coasting in Drive.

While I can duplicate everything you do more or less ( I'm not in the car with you, so I can't be sure ) time and time again, I coast the exact same distance in D and N when I'm in the 40-20 MPH range. Maybe the slope you are on affects this?

If on a down slope, and the FEH starts to accelerate, then D will do regen to try and keep a steady speed, or even slow the car. So on a down slope, N may coast further than D. However, over flat roads, where the FEH is not going to accelerate, and in fact is slowing due to friction, D coasts just as far as N. EVERY TIME ( for me ).

-John
Hi Guys –
I can concur that you will coast further in ‘N’ than in ‘D’ if you are on a slope. Not just coast further but any friction caused/generated by having it in ‘D’ and thus using the generator – if the battery is a little low – will slow you down, if in ‘N’ it takes the generator out of the equation altogether needed or not and you may actually pick-up more speed.

The reason I can state this that I just got back from a 120 mile round trip, expressways 55-65, stop and go (EV) and gentle rolling hills at about 45 mph using ‘N’ when I would top a hill. A tested between the downhill in both ‘D’ and ‘N’ and found that in ‘D’ I would slow or keep the same speed, even when the SoC was full, but in ‘N’ would always gain speed and shift to ‘D’ just as I saw the mph drop – to keep up the speed for the next hill. I tried it both ways and 'N' always won out. By the way got 39.9 with those conditions.

Like you John, I am not as lucky as Gary in not having any kind of LONG level roads (do good to have a level ¼ mile). So I guess I will just have to wait a couple of weeks to when I am riding A1A to see if there is any difference – at least in a AWD.

OH - Gary you didn't address the statement I made about letting off the gas a little slower during 'Fake Shift' as opposed to a quick release (like a simultaneous gas-clutch like you would do in a real standard shift) - do you know if there is very much of a difference.. Plus if I do it in 'L' with my wife she gets all over me because her head is snapped forward on release - I am ready for it but she is not.

-Phillip

Hi Phillip

Sorry that I missed answering you question on the fake shift. As far as letting off the accelerator quickly for a fake shift, I find it will send the deepest surge of energy the faster you release it. People are sending email on how long you stay off the accelerator. The answer to that is when the assist needle starts returning back to the center (about 3 seconds). It all depends on a number of things like if the ICE starts shuting down when you don't want it to. Two fake shifts is where I find the sweet spot for enough charge for EV. Remember that the second fake shift is going to shut down the ICE like you want it to, and you want to shift into "N" just before the tach drops to Zero. You learn that point by watching the tach after a while. As far as your wife's neck, mine complained also at first. Now that I'm saving alot of money at the pump, she has somehow quit complaining. In fact, she is now bragging about getting 21mpg in the Exployer.

It's great phillip that your on the move up to 39.9mpg BTW.

All John wants to do with this "D" and "N" coasting is get into dead heading. This is a state in "D" that regen stops if you hold the go pedal just right. It is something I"M very aware of and don't care to use or discuss any further. It appears he wants to continue picking my bones after I just explained how to push his FEH over 70mpg. Now, he thinks my advantage is because I only weigh 110 lbs and he carry's twice that weight in his FEH. Question for Wayne, do you think my light weight makes a difference? See our post on GH "Mile To Empty" in the FEH section.

GaryG

if you want a signature check out the milage records page and enter a car and a tank and then view your tanks. You will see the image on that page and you can copy and paste the link to your signature. Note that the database is still being developed so there are many bugs.

If you enter a tank it should put the right name in there now. Curently the only way to update the sig is to add a tank. I don't have it change the image when you change your car. It is a feature for the future.

I have been able to push my 05 FEH 4WD to 37.8 on a tank of gas. This mileage was mostly highway and country roads (45-50 mph).

I don't have a scan gauge, but by using a technique you call FS, I can run the machine at 1500 rpm in L, and be poised for that switch to EV when the traffic falls below 40 mph.

Since my wife is the primary driver of the car, I don't get many chances to drive it for a sustained length of time. However, I am sure I can manage a tank over 40 mpg, even with a fair amount of highway driving.

Now that I found a sweet spot which is 25mph to glide (coast) down to in EV, and pulse (accelerate) in EV to 30-32mph for another EV glide in neutral (“N”), I’m raising my averages on all roads when I get the chance as traffic allows. An example would be if the speed limit is 45mph, I slowly accelerate (1,800rpm’s) to that speed and begin a ICE ON glide (coast) in “N” allowing traffic to pass for an all clear behind and go EV at 40mph. Glide to 25mph if I can with traffic and then pulse to 30-32mph in EV and repeat as much as possible. As traffic begins to come in behind, I’m increasing back up to 45mph for another repeat. This helps the flow of traffic by not having a slow vehicle causing a bottleneck. It’s best to get a good fake shift into the battery at 30mph before your climb with the ICE running, to be ready for EV with the second Fake Shift. If traffic is heavy for awhile and they can’t pass with normal flow, just let the battery reach a full charge and use it when traffic clears. Pulse and Glide ICE ON from 45mph in “N” to what traffic can handle. If the traffic flow is higher than 45mph, the posted limit, I may go to 50mph and start the glide, depending on heavy traffic and the amount of lanes.

Most of the FEH’s and AWD models that have less than 12,000 miles may not be able to Pulse from 25mph to 30mph in EV. You may have to settle for a slower P&G in EV like 22mph to 27mph. Xcel was able to climb to 38-39mph in my FEH, but things get too sensitive above 32mph for a fast pulse in EV. The lower 32mph can be had real quick and saves the battery for more Pulses before the ICE starts. Never thought I’d be doing the P&G in EV until I discovered “N” gliding.

GaryG

Okay, I've read and re-read this entire thread and I still don't
quite understand the notion of "fake shift". Now, I'm a Prius
driver, but my understanding was that the FEH drivetrain is very
similar to Toyota's HSD. In the Prius, simply backing off the
go-pedal while in "D" is sufficient to stop the ICE and run in
EV for a while. Does the FEH honestly keep the engine *running*
even with no accelerator demand once everything's warmed up?
That's nuts if it's true, and screws up one of the really great
advantages of how the Prius works. In a nutshell, what I tell
people about any hybrid system is "ICE on and running efficiently,
or not running at all".
.
I've got a much longer piece about throttle and torque management
rolling around in my head, but it hasn't hit text form yet.
.
_H*

From what I've gathered, the purpose of a "fake" shift is to juice back up the battery without revving the engine (therefore, using fuel) to rev up the ICE to spin the generator to charge the batteries.

Wow, that was a mouthful. ;)

So the shift uses the gearing of the tranmission to spin up the engine, spin the generator, and charge the battery.

Correct me if I'm wrong. :)

Hi John and Hobbit

The FEH has two separate electric motor/generators. The largest one is the Traction Motor which works with the wheels to give you forward and reverse torque, as well as regenerative braking when you let off the go pedal or hit the brakes. The ICE provides foward torque and can turn the small generator to charge the HV Battery with a low SoC.

My technique of the Fake Shift is simply letting off the go pedal quickly in "D or "L" to reduce RPM's and get regenerative energy from the wheels by turning the larger traction motor as a generator. The Ice does not rev, but is reduced in RPM's and will shut off under 40mph to go EV if you continue to keep off the gas in "L" for more that two or three seconds. This I have given the name of "The Low Gear Advantage" (LGA) to go EV and shift back to "N" for a great EV glide from forty or below MPH.

The Fake Shift can be also used to pump up the battery faster, and take the load off the ICE turning the small generator.

GaryG

Hobbit Quotes:

"Okay, I've read and re-read this entire thread and I still don't
quite understand the notion of "fake shift". Now, I'm a Prius
driver, but my understanding was that the FEH drivetrain is very
similar to Toyota's HSD. In the Prius, simply backing off the
go-pedal while in "D" is sufficient to stop the ICE and run in
EV for a while. "

Wish I knew more about the Prius, like does it have a "L" position on the shifter. On the FEH, whenever you let off the gas in "D" or "L", the wheels turn the traction motor to get regen power to the battery. The FEH will go EV in "D", but it's not a sure thing. If you let off the gas in "L", you will go EV if your <40mph in most cases.


"Does the FEH honestly keep the engine *running*
even with no accelerator demand once everything's warmed up?
That's nuts if it's true, and screws up one of the really great
advantages of how the Prius works. In a nutshell, what I tell
people about any hybrid system is "ICE on and running efficiently,
or not running at all"."

No, the FEH shuts down like the Prius if your speed is less than 40mph and you are in "L". According to xcel, the FEH has a much stronger battery pack for EV than the Prius. He was able to go from 0 to 39mph in EV in my FEH. Wayne's got better foot control than my max 37-38mph from zero.
.
"I've got a much longer piece about throttle and torque management
rolling around in my head, but it hasn't hit text form yet."

The reason I can hit 70+ MPG on a segment, is because I use the torque curve at low RPM's to my advantage for accelerating. I'm very interested in if the Prius has the regen control to keep the battery charged for extended EV driving. Example, I can recharge the battery 25% in about 2 block, and go EV for about 10 blocks using P&G in the EV mode. I was able to go 10 miles at about 75mpg. If the Prius can recharge the battery like the FEH, what would the Prius hit. I drive with a minimal SoC where the Battery can take a rapid charge in a short distance and carry me in EV almost 5 times that distance. My technique is very sensitive as far as speed for the fake shifts and P&G.

GaryG

Yes, the Prius has an "L" equivalent called "B". It may be
instructive to read
http://techno-fandom.org/~hobbit/cars/b-mode.html
which is another in this series of "okay, enough of giving
the same answer over and over" articles. Please look through
that and see if it's similar to FEH behavior.
.
I find it odd that you *have* to shift to L to force ICE shutdown
by backing your foot off, though. For the people who just leave
it in D, is their engine running constantly, then, or only
stopping at vehicle stops?
.
The Prius also regens more heavily upon backoff in "B" or your
"L" equivalent, but not that much more -- it uses a mild regen
as a "fake drag" even in "D" anyways, and increases from there
on a braking request. It's all a smooth continuum, really.
The system is always seeking to reach a 60% SOC, so being high
or low of that simply changes the acceleration *request* threshold
at which the ICE comes on. It's not a question of "enough for
extended EV" -- if you've got a nominal SOC then you get reasonable
EV runs, and if you're low then the engine has to help make up
for it.
.
Now, I *totally* don't understand what you mean by "pulse & glide
in EV mode". The entire *essence* of P&G is to use the *engine* to get
going, and the electric system [and momentum] to keep going as
long as you can in bursts. Pulsing in electric should gain
nothing, and lead to higher make-up charge needed later and more
ohmic heating in wires and battery cells. Are you *sure* your
engine isn't running during these?
.
Sounds like I'm going to just have to try this someday..
.
_H*

Hi Hobbit:

___I hope this will help alleviate some of the real world driving differences between the Prius II and the FEH as well as give both Gary and John some insight about the Prius II’s real world FE maximums.

___The FEH and Prius II are completely different animals built from very similar components. The Prius II will run ICE-Off below 41 on a whim whereas the FEH is a bit tougher to get into ICE-Off for any number of reasons.

___Pack … Ford appears to be protecting a much higher internal resistance Sanyo pack far better then Toyota is with its much lower internal resistance Panasonic when considering the Prius II’s SoC range as posted in the Prius Tech group under a variety of driving conditions. Ford only allows a very tightly controlled band under all driving conditions in the FEH. Because of the packs higher internal resistance, I believe Ford’s cel and/or cel group temperature limitations are also controlled far more tightly including the ability of the pack coolant itself to maintain parameter’s thus removing that many more opportunities for ICE-Off/EV conditions vs. the Prius II. John do not post that SoC range, OK ;)

___Emissions … When John and I were speaking with the Ford control and design engineers at the Ford Escape Hybrid Experience last year, we kept running into a discussion of an emissions hard deck. Ford is holding inferred emissions at a very conservative level which can never be breached under any and all circumstances. I am sure Toyota has similar parameters but the 1.5’s effluent may be so much less then the 2.3’s so as to allow the Prius II’s 1.5L to run ICE-Off much more of the time. I cannot with absolute certainty say that the 2.3’s emissions are tougher to control then Toyota’s 1.5 but it seems plausible? It may be that Ford does not have the CAT tech in the FEH but Ford’s CAT tech in other areas is some of the best in the world so I doubt this is the limiting issue. Either way, the feeling John and I felt after the event was Ford’s ultra-conservative emission specs had ultimate authority over and above the drivetrain integration and control guys thus leaving them handcuffed over a far greater range then Toyota may have been with the Prius II.

___MGSet’s … Given the FEH is a heavier vehicle and functions as a small SUV with the capabilities to run off-road and under conditions you would not dare take the Prius II into, its MG2 was built with a much more robust capability and thus its relatively strong EV capability with the appropriate matched current and power output to match while lightly loaded. Not that the Prius cannot run EV (we all know it does) but the FEH’s is a bit stronger feel under light loading from my perspective is all.

___With the above, the FEH should be driven in such a manner to maximize Glide and then EV at slower speeds for the highest FE. The Prius on the other hand should be driven with less EV and more straight gliding for its maximum FE. As mentioned above, the Prius II loves to run ICE-Off on just about any occasion below 41 mph after the basic temperature, emissions, and load specs are met. The FEH has to sometimes be coerced into ICE-Off with LGA being possibly the best way to achieve this condition and once evoked; run in N for the longest glide to a lower target speed and let her strong EV at lowest load maintain the lower target until the pack is nearly or fully depleted or if the ICE starts for Emissions concerns.

___As for Gary’s practically patented FEH - FS, Gary has touched upon that more then once in this thread as well as his posts around the net. I will try to describe FS it in my own words and from what I remember while driving his FEH around both Sebring and Kissimmee, Florida. Besides trying to keep the 2.3 at the lowest RPM near that first torque peak, a FS can pull the FEH out of an almost intolerable area when the pack is at or near low SoC and MG1 is pulling from the ICE so hard as to hamper its FE capabilities during any re-acceleration to a higher target speed or while in steady state cruise. 2 FS’s in succession not only take the SoC out of the range where MG1 is dragging on the ICE at its maximum, but there is enough power instilled back into the pack so as to allow the FEH to run in her ever so lightly loaded EV mode for far greater distance then would seem possible. I think I posted this earlier about a segment where I was driving and Gary was guiding. I performed 2 FS’s from an almost depleted pack within ~ 2 blocks heading into a light. There was not only enough power reintroduced back into the pack to remove the strong MG1 pull, there was also enough to breach Ford’s pack parameters to allow for ICE-Off via the LGA to D to N for the coast to that light IIRC? Not only were we in an ICE-Off condition, we now had a 1/3 usable SoC to play with which allowed us to run in EV from that light to ~ 1/2 mile beyond at which time we repeated the process … I cannot explain the physics because it doesn’t seem possible to surge charge a pack via Regen with its accompanying loss of momentum just twice with short accel’s in between and then EV for a much longer period afterwards but it did in fact open my eyes as to the secondary reason for the FS to improve yet again the FE available from an FEH! This next level of FE via the FS is beyond the standard LGA to N to lower target speed and back to D for EV to maintain said target until pack depletion and repeat.

___Gary will straighten out anything I may have misconstrued above but it was truly amazing to run the FEH through (2) Pulse’s w/ (2) very short Regen segments in between, LGA to ICE-Off, N glide to a lower target, and EV afterwards to maintain the lower target for such a long distance before having to repeat.

___And the Prius II’s high FE capabilities in my experience … A Pulse from a lower speed with current via MG1 being pushed into the pack and then feathering the throttle to induce an ICE-Off Glide at 40 mph and below (Dead Band) to the lower target and repeat. This is standard P&G with a slight amount of EV to get you over any shallow rise so as to extend any glide which again allowed some truly outrageous FE to be had on the State route along the Ohio River near Pittsburgh last August. I spoke with Dan about going to N in order to remove any EMF on the MG’s for longer glides and possibly allow more power for a bit more EV but he said glide distances were equal in N or in D during ICE-Off glide in his Prius II so there should not have been any advantage gained to run in N after an ICE-Off Glide was first initiated at high target other then if you were using Hobbit’s warp stealth when and where appropriate.

___Sorry if this post is a bit tough to understand. I am not only recalling both the FEH and Prius II techniques from memory, I am trying to describe details of what each of the two vehicles felt like during their respective trials under my tutelage that may or may not have a basis in reality as I recall them today.

___Good Luck

___Wayne

Excellent Job Wayne!

The acronyms may drive reader's crazy, but your right on.

Hobbit, I read the link that you posted on the "B" position, and it appears it's pretty much the same as the "L" position on the shifter in the FEH. The only thing that is not the same is the ability to use it as a method of sending a quick supper charge to the battery for EV driving. Also, from reading the link, it explains why I prefer to conduct the fake shifts at or above 30mph for the max charge as well as using the momentum of the heavy FEH to hold it's speed.

Using the P&G allows going the extra distance in EV. You can't get to the speeds in EV that you normally would with the ICE running, but still, I use it quite effectively for great FE. Two FS's allows me to get two P&G's in EV. The last FS is done at ~35mph to go EV, and a glide in "N" down to ~25mph before another pulse back to 30-32mph in EV. Most of the time, you can pulse twice to 30-32mph before the ICE restarts between 25-30mph. At that point, I accelerate at 1800rpm's to 30mph for another first FS which generally will not shut down the ICE because the battery is still so low. My speed after the first FS has slowed the FEH down to around ~27mph. Pulsing back up to ~35 at 1800rpm's for the second and last FS taking me into EV and the glide. One trick I've used effectively is to go to "N" before the ICE shuts down for a smooth glide at max speed (~32mph). It seems this is the best speed (25-35mph), and technique to bring the FEH into the 70+mpg range. It will take someone like Wayne to show me a better way. BTW, I use this method in my daily drive whenever posible and traffic permitting. My battery seldom sees half full except in the warm-up in the morning. The fake shift does most of my charging and I don't worry about the ICE sucking up the fuel with a low SoC for the short time it's running.

GaryG

The acronyms may drive reader's crazy

Well, looks like we have to add them to the glossary then ;)

Well ... it still sounds pretty weird, but hats off. The FS must really
make the car "fall on its face" momentarily and lose a certain amount of
speed; fortunately it sounds like you can get back up to a running
speed via EV thereafter.
.
One big diff between FEH and Prius is that in "B", the prius will *keep*
the engine running -- no particularly good reason, it just does.
You have to be in "D" to let it shut down, period. "N" doesn't work
because the Prius' definition of "N" really is "don't apply any
control whatsoever to the motors", which includes controlling ICE
shutdown in a way that repositions the crank for best light-off
again later -- so for "N", if the ICE is off it stays off and if
it's running it stays running.
.
"N" and "D" in the Prius are *almost* equivalent for gliding but it
turns out that there's a very small draw from the battery even in
the "no-arrows" deadband state which helps make the glide just a wee
bit longer. This is how I justified [and Wayne just confirmed]
the "slightly EV aided glide" strategy to help level speed out, keep
the butthead off my tail, and still return high FE.
.
I'd still like to see all this actively working in the FEH one of
these days. Want amusing? I pulled up at a light next to a couple
in a brandy-new FEH, with my Tour de Sol stickers still on my car;
made the "roll down yer window" motion and then told them how a guy
had pulled 42.something mpg on the rally loop. They were thrilled;
they went on about how they totally loved the car so far...
.
_H*

Hobbit

I understand deadbanding to keep the energy flow arrows off for maintaining a glide, but I'm having a hard time believing that "N" is not better than "D" coasting in the Prius. Also, I think you should try the fake shifts in "B" to recharge a low battery and go back to "D" for ICE-OFF to see if that helps the Prius FE. The Prius doesn't have the weight of the FEH, but the MG2 in the Prius doesn't have or need the power of the FEH MG2. This all could be very interesting to find out. Also, lets not forget the Highlander and Lexus Hybrids.

Wayne had me do some coasting test in the FEH last year, and I would have never guessed at the results I got. He ask me to get up to 40mph in "D" and coast down in EV to a complete stop. I used my trip O to measure the distance. Wayne ask to do the same in "N", key off at 40mph. There was a 36% increase in distance to a stop. This lead me to conduct the same test with key on in EV and ICE-ON.

Here's what I found:

1. "N" increased gliding 36% in EV over "D" (key off or on) because all regen was removed. At first, we thought it was the gear set freeing up, but I'm convinced now the regen was the drag even though no regen arrows were present.

2. "N" also increased the distance to a stop with the ICE running to 38%. This tells me that the engine turnning did take some of the load off the gear set by 2%. For this reason, I do alot of high speed coasting in "N" when the ICE has to run with Key on.

Remember, I'm pushing over 50mpg in the city going every where now, of course without the A/C and running good 87 octane. Try these test on a country road and bring a can of white paint to mark a line for starting and stopping. BTW, when I returned a few weeks later to my test site, the paint marks were still there to conduct more test.

GaryG

I have a 2006 FWD FEH and used to think using battery power in general was bad for fuel economy (FE) because FE took a big hit when the generator/starter and ICE were used to recharge the battery. (I didn’t think I had driving conditions where recharging could be done with the traction motor/regeneration.) However…

Yesterday part of my drive was in bumper-to-bumper, stop-and-go traffic (Maryland-Virginia, 80+F temperatures) for over an hour. Drivers were being very civil for some reason --- not jumping into 2-car gaps if you left some space or sitting on your bumper. So I decided to try a couple of Gary’s ideas.

First, using L-gear, I would briefly accelerating with traffic using the ICE-on up to 35-40 mph, and then slow with traffic which would turn off the ICE almost immediately (due to L-gear) and the traction motor/regeneration would recharge the battery. I could then run in EV mode for some distance. I was able to do this repeatedly so that for the last 45 minutes of the traffic jam the energy screen was essentially all green (there was only an occasional very small dark triangle corresponding to an ICE-on episode that was a little longer than I should have had, but not bad for a first attempt at this technique). The other positive of this technique was that normally when driving in a traffic jam like this, the ICE would cycle every 3 or so minutes to keep the FEH at operating temperature, which also kills FE. By using this technique, the FEH stayed at operating temperature and I didn’t take the “ICE cycling for operating temperature” FE hit.

Second, using neutral with the FEH really is different from deadbanding and can improve FE under certain circumstances. In deadbanding, you adjust the pedal so there is no energy flow to/from the battery. However, the FEH uses a 3-phase AC permanent-magnet synchronous electric motor which means that while there may be no energy flowing, there is still a drag resulting from the magnets/conductors rotating relative to each other. Ford patent 6,793,034 titled “Wheel-End and Center Axle Disconnects for an Electric or HEV” describes how neutral disconnects the traction motor from the drive wheels, which would eliminate drag that is present when deadbanding. Thus, when in EV mode, neutral allows you to coast further with the engine off, and thus helps FE. However, when the ICE is not off, putting the FEH in neutral allows the ICE rpms to “drift” to higher levels, which seems to slightly increase fuel consumption. (Sorry, I don’t have a Scangauge to confirm this.) So while there is less drag in neutral with ICE-on and the FEH can coast further, there is a probably a slight increase in fuel usage leading to no observable (at least to me) FE improvement.

So in closing, until yesterday, I had thought Gary’s approaches to achieving FE improvements were special to his flat, non-congested Florida highways and unrealizable by me. But through his persistence, I finally “get it.” Thanks Gary.

Hi GreenFEH:

___Not only where you working that traffic like you should, I bet your FE was pretty decent too ;)

___Thank you for the detailed patent info on the “Center Axle Disconnect” workings as it explains what Gary is seeing in his FEH while running from LGA to ICE-Off to N for the longest glide.

___Good Luck

___Wayne

Hello, welcome and thank you Green FEH.

That may be a patent I missed, so I'll check it out. It has always been my belief that deadbanning for other than maintaining speed, used more energy than "N" coasting. Anytime you push on the accelerator, torque is being applied and energy is being used IMO. Of course, if the key is on and operating things like the power steering etc, your losing energy fast in "N" with no regen in EV also. This is where the problem get solve real fast when the ICE restarts and shifting to "L" for the Fake Shift Super Charge I love so much.

Your right about a higher idle in "N" than "D" when coasting, and the increased RPM's burns more fuel according to the SG. The reason for the higher idle I believe is, because of no regen and the smaller generator has to make up the difference by charging more. As far as not being as good as "D" for FE, remember you get 38% longer coasting and it's still charging with the ICE/generator when over 6mph. For this reason, I take it out of "N" below 6mph and at stops with the ICE running for warm up. If you take into account, having to accelerate back to speed because of that 38% quicker loss in speed, I think you'll find using "N" for ICE-ON coasting to be far better overall FE than "D". Before Wayne had me do those test, all I used was "D" coasting for P&G, my mileage went way up from that, on roads over 40mph and during warm up using "N". One other point to make, tapping the brake pedal in "N" will shut down the ICE at 40mph and below to 6mph if you want it to. I do this alot when the regen is to hot to shut it off the ICE, and for a smoother coast without going to "L".

The goal here is not a 70mpg tank, because that would be out of my reach with my present bag of tricks. But when you get the chance on many of the roads you travel, these 70mpg tricks will improve your 30mpg tanks for sure.

BTW Green FEH, the SG is a great way to impove you FE also. Thanks again for your support.

GaryG

Wayne:

I don’t know what the exact FE was from the techniques described above, but when I dropped the FEH off at the dealership, I had used half a tank and was over 39 mpg (energy/nav display). The dealership did a wonderful job of fixing everything, but the half tank average was down to 35 mpg when I picked up the FEH. Sitting in traffic with the ICE cycling, I was losing 0.1 to 0.2 mpg each cycle and figured it won’t hurt to try something different. Trying the techniques described above, I arrived at home (about a 50 mile trip) at 36.5 mpg. I’m convinced it’s helping to recover from the hit at the dealership.

Green FEH, that patent was an excellent find. Up till now, I thought neutral was a neutral state of the of the traction motor and it still turned with the wheels. Neutral is a combination of a disconect joint which prevents a lock up of the wheels from motor freeze and other safety problems. That patent is on my favorites now and it will lead me and others to more Ford patents. Thank you very much!

Now, I just need to fine out why coasting in "N" with ICE running was 2% better than ICE-OFF. It may have been the reduction in speed going ICE-OFF at 40mph, and not taking any load off the gear set which is disconected in "N". This has got to be the same in the Toyotas, and "N" coasting is better for them also. Someone needs to test those hybrids!

GaryG

Gary:

Go to uspto.gov and search on "an/ford and neutral and hev" There were 6-12 patents found, the one I quoted was what I wanted to learn about.

Thanks, here is the patent for everyone to go to http://www.freepatentsonline.com/6793034.html

If I'm corect, "N" will have an overall coasting improvement of 38% with either ICE-ON or OFF with this new information. The drag of regen to go EV caused the 36% results in my test. Please, if anyone wants to compare results, do the same test. Remember to go from "D" to "N" at 10mph to avoid the creap feature or you'll never completely stop.

GaryG

Thanks, here is the patent for everyone to go to http://www.freepatentsonline.com/6793034.html

If I'm corect, "N" will have an overall coasting improvement of 38% with either ICE-ON or OFF with this new information. The drag of regen to go EV caused the 36% results in my test. Please, if anyone wants to compare results, do the same test. Remember to go from "D" to "N" at 10mph to avoid the creap feature or you'll never completely stop.

GaryG

which is why i still believe auto trannies can be good coasters if you don't mind feeding the engine just ENOUGH GAS (N) so that it doesn't stall. And that when slowing down the torque converter doesn't have to feed more power to the wheels (if you know your going to stop evenually).

Or for those long coasts, kill the engine although sorry for this post not related to the FEH at all!

Hey how many hills do you guys have to go down to fully charge the battery? Or do you think most of the charging comes from the engine?

Hey Phil

There's not many hills here in Palm Beach County, but I use the large bridges all the time for some nice regen. On the big bridges that aren't draw, in "L", I can get almost halve my battery charged. Most of the time, the battery is dead low by the time I get to the top because my driving technique seldom has half a charged battery with all my EV driving. Generally, two Fake Shifts give me 25-30% SoC and I'm back in EV gliding in "N". The key to killer mileage is to charge with regen (FS's in "L") for a short distance with ICE-ON and shut her down ASAP for the EV glide. Use P&G till the ICE starts back up and repeat FS's as you pulse back to speed. If you let the engine and small generator charge the battery, it takes about two miles. I never charge the battery that way any more because the FS saves so much fuel.

GaryG

Hi John:

Neutral causes the axle to disconnect, which does not allow any regen. If your getting regen in neutral, your axle is not disconnecting like mine. My tests were done on level gound from 40mph, not from a stand still on a slope. I'm sure xcel had a reason for me to conduct the test in this manner. The reason "N" will allow me to coast 38% further, is because of no regen and the disconnect from the gear set. Your results may be why "N" and "D" are the same, your still getting regen in "N".

The shop manual is very clear about the disconnect, so I would take your FEH to the dealer and get it repaired. I shift into neutral at least 100 times a day, and the eCVT is still solid as a rock.

Does anyone else here get regen in neutral?

GaryG

John:

The fact that you don’t physically notice the profound release of the gear set and regen in neutral, tells me you’ve got a problem with your axle disconnect or linkage. It’s no wonder you have pushed deadbanding over neutral all this time. It’s all making sense now.

Trust me John, the Helms shop manuals are clear and it is a completely new hybrid section written for the FEH eCVT.

You’ve got another problem, if I can’t convince you, how are you going to convince the service tech’s. One way would be to show them a copy of that patent that Green FEH posted about and I gave a link to. Show the Tech page 307-01B-2 under Neutral that states: “With the range selector in NEUTRAL: 1. NO POWER FLOWS THROUGH THE TRANSMISSION. 2 THE OUTPUT SHAFT IS DISENGAGED FROM THE DRIVE WHEELS.

There is no physical way to get regen with the output shaft disengaged period, end of story. If you show regen to the tech in neutral, tell him to fix the **** thing. You will send me money for steak and lobster when you get that thing fixed John. Gliding in Neutral will increase your mileage and save you big bucks.

GaryG

Gary and John: I think this is a case where you are both right, but talking about two different operating states for the FEH.

1. If you are below 40 mph, in EV mode, and Neutral, you have disengaged the wheels from the ICE with the clutch. There is clearly no regeneration. From everything I’ve read from Gary, he’s able to drive a significant part of his trips below 40 mph, and thus gets maximum benefit from the clutch disengaging in neutral and the lower rolling resistance due to reduced drive train drag.

2. If you are above 40 mph, the ICE is on (and in my experience, “floats” the rpms). I don’t think John can use “regeneration” as a measure of whether the clutch is engaged or disengaged since the FEH will try to reduce the harshness (or “bump”) for when it is put back into gear at high speed. This means it is trying to match speed (and possibly and torque also??). Since the ICE is idling at an increased speed, the generator will be running so the ICE can be at the proper state for clutch reengagement, and thus you will see an energy flow to the battery. This is discussed in the two patents:

- 6,853,892 (Strategy to control a clutch to connect an engine to a powertrain of a hybrid electric vehicle), and
- 6,907,325 (Method of operating a hybrid electric vehicle to limit noise, vibration, and harshness).

What this all means (at least to me) is that above 40 mph, the ICE is running at a higher idle rpm against the generator, and thus the fuel economy benefit is minimal, if any because of the ICE loading in “idle” at speeds over 40 mph.

Hi Green FEH:

___Wonderful post as usual and thank you.

___Good Luck

___Wayne

Hi Green FEH

It is my understanding that the two patents you listed concern the ICE and the small gen/starter motor and perhaps a hand off to the traction motor. The axle disconnect is between the traction motor and output shaft which is where neutral is involve.

When the ICE is running, there is no question that the small gen/starter can charge the battery. I also believe the ICE is causing current to flow from the traction motor to the battery, but it’s not regen from the axle and doesn’t increase drag of the FEH.

The increased idle in neutral I believe is due to small gen charging and no drive axle resistance or braking.

GaryG

Gary:

I believe we are saying the same thing. In my post I was trying to explain why John seeing regen is not an indication that the clutch is or is not disengaging the drive and that he needs a different explanation to support his viewpoint. As we have discussed some time ago, Neutral does do the disengagement.

By the way, I was thinking about your comment about your son coming home soon. Was wondering if he has the knowledge/capability to access and reverse engineer the fuel economy averaging software so we can all know once and for all how the FEH does the long term average.

Take care.

Green FEH, thanks for confirming the disconnect. I’ve gotten some PM’s also confirming the big difference in gliding in “N” over “D”. If we didn’t have the disconnect, deadbanding would be an alternate choice as it appears in John’s case. My personal choice would be, just coast in “D” like I did before Wayne enlighten me about doing the “N” coasting test.

I found a patent awhile back that had a Japanese name on it, but it did not give a clue as to what manufacture uses it. It’s hard for me to believe that all auto using a eCVT don’t have an axle disconnect of some sort. Hobbit and other’s have stated that deadbanding was better than “N” gliding, so you would think the Toyota’s and Honda’s don’t have a disconnect for “N”. In the Ford patent, it talks of the need for their disconnect not only for “N”, but as an inertia switch for auto accidents and motor freeze.

Check the GH thread for the Navi info.

GaryG

Hi John:

You know, the air in FL is dense, so I also have that problem to deal with. So, if I come across as being dense, just remember where I’m from.

There are too many complicated systems in the FEH & MMH for me to understand fully. If you prefer a deadband coast, that’s fine. If you think your FEH is performing as it should, that’s fine also.

Just a repeat, when in EV and neutral, there are never any arrows on my navi energy screen. As you must know, the gas pedal does nothing while in “N” while the Ice is on or off

Anytime I shift to “N”, all regen is cancelled below and above 40mph. Pressing the gas pedal has no effect. If you are seeing any effect in the gas pedal while in “N”, you have a service repair that’s needed.

GaryG

Hi All

Hypermiling the FEH during the hot summer is a challenge, but can be done with a cool head. Day after day for the past two months, I’ve tried a number of things to find the best FE results in my FEH.

The fast moving thunderstorms, the strong cross winds coming off the Atlantic and the hot sun taking it’s toll on our brains and the FEH battery, make it hard to concentrate on the best technique for FE. After spinning my wheels and not seeing those cool winter FEH MPG here in So. FL, I’ve got some success to report.

My last two tanks have been in the 42-43mpg range, which I consider a big hit in my tank average that have been in the upper 40's to the low 50's in march and April. I’ve driven more highway miles in those two tanks than I have in a long time and also trying different technique that just didn’t work like they did in the cooler weather. The problem was, it was hard for me to change my driving style. I kept trying to force the battery to perform, instead of letting it perform.

It didn’t take me long to figure out the problem, which was keeping the battery and myself cool. It took me too long to change my driving habits for the hot weather. I kept trying to push the limits on some days, because I thought the weather was cool enough for the battery to operated without running the ICE to cool the battery. Take it from me, make sure your running the ICE (A/C compressor) enough to keep the battery on the cool side. Try not to drain the battery till you get a restart, but if you do, let it charge back to 50% and maintain that level in city driving. A good gauge is to have the normal A/C recir on and keep the ICE running to keep yourself happy between EV mode driving. The battery will charge faster and last longer if you just keep it cool. The long term life of the battery, I suspect will be much better also.

GaryG

Hi Gary:

___Nice job on the latest update with the steady state speed - FE data! It appears as if that Atkinson designed 2.3 L is one darn efficient ICE in a heck of a vehicle.

___Good Luck

___Wayne

Important: Many of us drive in low gear ("L") thinking we are in the same state as drive ("D"). During my tests, I accidentally left the shifter in "L" and came up with astounding results. It appears that "L" at below 50 mph, there is still regenerative braking occurring while in cruise control. This must also be the case while not in cruise control. The result I was getting was a 5.1 mpg reduction at 30 mph while in the "L" position over the "D" position. At 40 mph, I was getting a 4.1 mph reduction in "L" over the "D" position. To sum it up, I will no longer be using the "L" position in the steady state cruising mode. In addition, I believe that using "L" in EV mode may reduce fuel efficiency. This is sort of like saying the "L" position causes an accelerate or brake (regen) "L" mode, instead of an accelerate and (light regen)"D"coast mode. Based on these test, I recommend using "L" for going EV and charging the battery only. Driving only in "L" will reduce your FE.

Hi Gary --

Wow, thanks for this info - I've been driving around mostly in L for the last month or so, thinking I was charging the battery faster. Now I want to take the afternoon off, just so I can drive home in D, & see what that does for my FE! :D

Also, thanks for your thoughts on hot-weather (90+ temps) driving. We don't have a lot of days that warm up here by Lake Michigan, & fortunately my drive to/from work is mostly right along the Lake, where it's cooler, but for a couple of days earlier this week, I was disappointed not to see my mpg go up as much as I've been used to. Now, if there's someone who can offer some ways to counteract the effects of temps below 40 :(

Still the best SUV available at this time ;)

Absolutely true! :) :) :)

This is a great SUV, learn how to drive it and get the most MPG possible!

It's so much fun! :D :D (That's me, the FEH cheerleader ;) )

Hi Debbie

Glad to help find the things that can hurt our MPG. My 14 year old son sat shotgun and took notes on the readings of the SG as I drove. When I called out the end of one mile, he called out the MPG reading. When he came up with an odd reading for the 30mph test, I started looking around and noticed the shifter was in "L" during that test run. After my 40mph test with CC, I ran that test in "L" to see if this would happen again, and it did. At the 50mph test, "L" didn't make that much of a difference. This may from the wind resistance at that speed causing a constant push on the accelerator. However, that was with CC, and I know I'm constantly backing off the gas pedal as I drive with my foot, to reduce RPM"s whenever I can. If I'm in "L", this means my FE is dropping at a time I may not need regen for the battery level.

Just to explain a little more about the Steady State Test I conducted, I reminded Wayne that there will be a problem with the HV battery kicking the A/C compressor on and off. Leave it to Wayne to find a solution. He recommend I cool the cabin and the FULL battery down real good with the A/C, then shut it off just before each one mile test run. It worked great, but I put at least 50 miles on my tank with very little EV and heavy A/C. All the test were run on the same road segment, and in the same direction. BTW, my son and I together are about 470 pounds, he's tall and medium size, I'm not.

Debbie, I feel like you, also wanting to find out how much my FE improves. I don't let the shifter stay in one position to long at a time, so my improvements won't be that much. At least I can correct any steady state driving in "L" for the better.

I like to give a big thanks to Wayne Gerdes for helping us FEH owner's improve our mileage. He was the one who lead me to this test and the "N" coasting test 8 months ago. Whenever he ask me to conduct test, I'm very happy to help him and other FEH owner's (including Myself) out.

GaryG

I read on GH some time ago that using L kept some small amount of regen going. I forget who posted it but it was whoever was doing all the research on the different patents (Vietvet maybe?). Since I read that I started using D except when I want to decel. I don't think it has changed my mileage much since I was already in the habit of using the gas pedal to keep it out of regen.

Have you driven an '06 at all Gary? Now that I have a year or so in each it is real easy to tell the difference in how they are programmed. I have to allow much longer distances for "no-brake" decelerations in the '06 than in the '05. The regen is stronger in the '05. The '06 revs lower however when the ICE kicks on after long downhill regens than the '05 does. I guess that is the tradeoff.

Don't know if it is just a long lasting effect of learning how to drive the hybrid but the '06 has a lifetime average that is about 2 mpg higher than the '05.

Hi Nitramjr

Great to see you here on CleanMPG posting. If it wasn’t for you, the LGA would not be an issue that brought xcel into helping the FEH owner’s with FE so much. Back then, you and Pravas Prime were talking about driving at highway speeds in “L”, and I thought you guys were nuts. It got me wondering, is this possible? After trying it, I was totally shocked. Now I bet most FEH owners use “L” to go EV, and a lot are using the FS in “L” to recharge their battery. We have all learned a lot since that time, and we still continue to find new ways to improve FE.

The fact that I left the shifter in “L” instead of “D” during the Steady State test shows I’m doing it and not giving it much thought. After driving yesterday, I can see it’s going to be a hard habit to break.

No Ray, I have not drove the ‘06 FEH, but that is interesting. Not sure I would like less regen because I know when and how to use it. Someone who doesn’t use “L” for heavy regen would benefit in FE it appears from your comments. I still don’t care for the high revs and try to avoid it as much as possible by shifting to “D” or “N”when the battery level gets high.

If the ‘06 is getting better mileage by the same driver, it must be a program change or something.

Ray, go to the introduction section and tell the member’s here about your background. You have a lot to offer to this forum and many here know you, but many don’t. Was hoping you would join the group! Thanks

GaryG

Wow, very well done, Gary. I'm impressed.

Hi Gary:

___As usual, you add something new and worthwhile each and every update. Loved the overpass, drafting, and using L only to get into EV and back to D for everything else. Thanks for the new info!

___Good Luck

___Wayne

Thanks Wayne

This article will need to be changed as we all learn new methods and techniques. As new issues are discussed in the general forum, and consensus are drawn, we can continue to update this article. If there is anyone that wants to ask a question or offer a better method or technique, myself and our friends here at CMPG would love to hear from you.

This summer has been great compared to my last summer MPG averages. Now I can drive roads (55-70MPH) I tried to stay away from last year and get 46mpg with the A/C on. My Fall, Winter and Spring should be a record breaker for me here in Palm Beach County.

This Summer, I've really learned alot about the HV battery and control modules. Wayne, when you get back down here I'll show you how the battery can be top off much higher than the last time we met. Also, I found in the '05 FEH Workshop manual (pg 414-03-31) where if the HV battery needed a jump start, the SoC had to be at 40% before the vehicle can be driven. Now, I think we know the established lower limits of the HV battery for sure. A Lithium ion battery with lower discharge limits and less heat build up would really make the FEH a better EV, but I'm happy with what we have now.

GaryG

I just joined this forum and have owned my Ford Escape Hybrid 1 month. I get 40 mpg in town 38 out on the highway. I got 40 drafting on my first tank of gas on the highway.

My question is this what does no left turns buy you?

Will the scanguage help me alot?

Hello to all from a soon-to-be-MMH-owner.

And that is in fact my question: Can anyone comment on the changes in the 2008 having any material effect upon fuel efficiency?

Hello to all from a soon-to-be-MMH-owner.

And that is in fact my question: Can anyone comment on the changes in the 2008 having any material effect upon fuel efficiency?

Welcome to Cleanmpg and congrads on being a soon-to-be MMH owner!

There has been a change to allow EV much easier and smoother. As a result, I'm seeing better overall mpg being reported on average than earlier models. I'd love to have one and compare with my '05 FWD FEH with this group. My money would be on I'd do better with the '08 FWD.

GaryG

I live right north of you in the south part of Stuart. I should get the Mariner about Dec 10-15, and perhaps we could arrange a meet to have you demonstrate the techniques referred to in your postings.

Thanks,
John Dixson

I live right north of you in the south part of Stuart. I should get the Mariner about Dec 10-15, and perhaps we could arrange a meet to have you demonstrate the techniques referred to in your postings.

Thanks,
John Dixson

Be more than happy to John. My father moved from Palm City and I rent and maintain his house there. My sister also lives in Stuart, so I'm up there at least once a week. My favorite road north to your area is A1A along Jupiter Island where I got a 70.3mpg RT in my FEH.

It will be fun for me to see what the '08 AWD is good for, and you can decide what techniques you want to learn and use. I'm sure the readers here would like to see the comparison between the FWD '05 and the AWD '08 in the same weather and conditions.

GaryG

Gary, you got a 70.3mpg RT in a FEH???? :eek::eek::eek:

Man would I love to take a ride with you!!!!

Gary, looking forward to that. BTW, the Mariner will be a FWD version.

Thanks,
John Dixson

Gary, looking forward to that. BTW, the Mariner will be a FWD version.

Thanks,
John Dixson

Got you confused with another post and an AWD. Living here, you made a great choice. I'm hearing about even more improvements in MPG between the '05 FWD and the '08 FWD. You must be excited! Have you considered a SG11?

Sean, the 70.3 MPG picture I took and Wayne posted in this article is of the SG I gave you.

GaryG

Gary, awesome. Simply awesome. I might (!) make a run at 70mpg next spring/summer when it warms up again, but in a big vehicle like yours????

Thanks again so much for the SG!!! I'd never be where I am now without it. :o

Thanks for the note re Scan Guage II. It looks like a very usable piece of instrumentation, and a bit of fun as well. Is the install as easy as implied in the manual?

Thanks,
John Dixson

Thanks for the note re Scan Guage II. It looks like a very usable piece of instrumentation, and a bit of fun as well. Is the install as easy as implied in the manual?

Thanks,
John Dixson

John, it just plugs in above the brake pedal and you do a easy set-up with the size of the engine, fuel you save hybrid, speed set plus 1%, choose CAN, set the back light to match you other gauge colors and set the CAN speed high. If you look at my photos here at CMPG, you will see where I mounted it which works great.

Sean, I knew you would put it to good use!

GaryG

Re the ScanGuageII and specifically how it calculates mpg, I have a question:

I have some experience with aircraft fuel flow measurements, which typically require a mass flow sensor and a fuel temperature probe. Obviously, knowing the mass flow and the fuel temp, one can calculate the flow in lbs/hr. What does the ScanGuage do? Have the manufacturers now installed some sort of flow sensor, or it a calculated fuel flow based on throttle position etc? if that is the case, it would be nice to know the accuracy spec.

Thanks,
John Dixson

Re the ScanGuageII and specifically how it calculates mpg, I have a question:

I have some experience with aircraft fuel flow measurements, which typically require a mass flow sensor and a fuel temperature probe. Obviously, knowing the mass flow and the fuel temp, one can calculate the flow in lbs/hr. What does the ScanGuage do? Have the manufacturers now installed some sort of flow sensor, or it a calculated fuel flow based on throttle position etc? if that is the case, it would be nice to know the accuracy spec.

Thanks,
John Dixson

John, it would be better to ask this type of question in the Ford forum here. More people will respond if you go to the menu on the left and click Fuel Economy Forum, then where you see Vehicles, click Ford. There is a thread already in the list called Scangauge and the FEH. We have some experts here that may not come to this article to answer this type of question.

GaryG

I'm a new owner of a 2008 FEH, and recently found your forum. I'm looking to get started in hypermiling, but don't really know where/how. Any suggestions for the first steps... er, miles? I'm in Michigan - how much of an effect is the cold (currently about 21F) having on my mileage? Right now I'm just driving conservatively, only 200 miles on the truck, and I'm getting about 29mpg.

You can start by reading this article... http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/articles/t-beating-the-epa-the-whys-and-how-to-hypermile-1510.html

Its chock full of ways to increase your FE and should answer alot of your questions. Cold weather has a big impact on your FE in many ways. The biggest is the increased density of air and your car having to push that heavier air out of the way, winter formulations of gas provide less energy per gallon lowering your FE, and colder weather makes for an engine operating colder than its optimal temp. You can remedy some of the problems by making a radiator block to try and keep some of that heat in the engine bay.

Welcome to cleanmpg!!

When you say "radiator block" do you mean something to put in front of the radiator to keep our icy cold midwest air out of the engine compartment? Any suggestions on the type of material to make a radiator block from?

I just put cardboard, or for cosmetic purposes, foam posterboard that matches the car color infront of the radiator to speed up the time the water coolant reaches 195F. Hope to hear from some FEH owners...this can be overdone, although not likely this time of the year. I know Prius drivers often partially block their radiator.

What I've done on my Honda Insight, was buy a pair of emissions hoses from O'Reily Auto Parts and route the air intake from the air filter to the catalytic converter - wraps around the cat like a boa constrictor to get hot air quicker....recommended by Mark Smith - an FEH owner here.

Another Cheap and cosmetically decent looking block material- Clear packing tape on the outside of the grill.

Layer the tape to cover the grill and you have a transparent radiator block that's cheap, effective, and easy to remove in spring.

Hi Gary,

I realize this is an old post, but the info is all new and relevant to me in that I just bought a 2005 FEH AWD and a Scan GaugeII

I live in a very cold climate--and soon to move to the world's second coldest capital: Ottawa. So my question to you is...
Do you think it worth the $700 odd dollars it costs to get the engine block heater/battery warmer installed? I'm expecting to get very poor MPG in -20 Celsius, so I imagine that being able to "plug it in" at night (unfortunately not to charge the battery) would help somewhat.

In the first few days, I managed to get my average MPG up to 31 at one point using your techniques, but finding it very difficult to stay there. Hoping the scan gauge will help.

Looking forward to your reply.

Andrew

Andrew, members here typically use the block heater all the way through summer because of the benefits it offers. I'm in MN and I can tell you without a doubt (even though I don't drive an FEH!) that the block heater is worth the investment. Consider that the most wear for your engine occurs when the engine is cold and I think you'll agree that the block heater is worth the enhancement in engine longevity alone -- even ignoring all the other benefits you'll get!

Welcome to the forums and do let us know as you come up with more questions -- we love to help! :)

Hi Andrew,

I agree with Sean, the block heater will definitely help. My winters are not as cold as yours, but without the block heater it takes over 3 km to get my temperature up to the 68C necessary to go EV, but with the heat its less than .8 km.

Rob

Hi Gary,

I realize this is an old post, but the info is all new and relevant to me in that I just bought a 2005 FEH AWD and a Scan GaugeII

I live in a very cold climate--and soon to move to the world's second coldest capital: Ottawa. So my question to you is...
Do you think it worth the $700 odd dollars it costs to get the engine block heater/battery warmer installed? I'm expecting to get very poor MPG in -20 Celsius, so I imagine that being able to "plug it in" at night (unfortunately not to charge the battery) would help somewhat.

In the first few days, I managed to get my average MPG up to 31 at one point using your techniques, but finding it very difficult to stay there. Hoping the scan gauge will help.

Looking forward to your reply.

Andrew

Hi Andrew

The $700 seems a bit steep to me because many post have claim the cost at less than half that. If you can't order the parts and install it your self, I'd gets some bids before paying that much. In your conditions, a block heater is a good idea above the mileage savings. My understanding is (I don't have one here in FL) the block heater should be on a timer for 3 hours prior to you commute to not over do it with household energy. Do some coolant and head temperature monitoring with a SGII to adjust what works better with your conditions as far as when and how long to plug the heater in.

I just ordered a new '09 FWD FEH and found I can't order the block heater as an option. It comes standard in some states that have freezing weather, and is a option only on approved fleet sales. I may get a price on adding it on the new FEH and determine if I want to save a little money and do it myself.

Make sure you do the radiator blocks mentioned in many threads and most importantly read my post on the FEH patented warm-up strategy here in the Ford section. The SGII SoC gauge is great to monitor at what stage the strategy is at with SoC levels dropping below the minimum 40% to as low as 32%. I have two SGII to monitor and I need both to stay on top of my mileage much better. You can see how I have them mounted in my photo gallery.

GaryG

Thanks Sean, Rob, and Gary

Nice to feel like I'm not the only slow-driving enviro geek out there.

Things are generally that much more expensive in the Great White North, but I will certainly check out other options--although installing something myself may be a bit beyond me...The whole "tape up your radiator grill" thing feels counterintuitive, but makes sense.

Another question: How does one get the Scan Gauge to read the SoC? I'm assuming I have to put in a code in XGauge mode and then get some values back, interpret them, do some "MTH" and then give it a name...then it appears as a selectable option in "Gauge"?...I tried it once with a code that I found here in the forums (which I can't seem to find again), but I think the car was off. Not realizing at first that "Send" actually meant that SGII was communicating with the car's computer.

Not to be too much of a complainer while I'm still so new to these posts, but the ScanGauge II Manual is terribly unclear--definitely intended for those already "in the know" and not for newbies like me who just want great MPG and who don't want to do tons of research and learning in order to pull out of the driveway. What are PIDs anyway? Why can't the pdf on ScanGauge's web site with all the values for XGauge and the various vehicles simply tell you "for SoC readout, do this"? I have no idea what to do with those numbers.

Again, thanks for the responses. I will have to do some more reading when time permits...perhaps I will even write a "Hypermiling for Dummies" article.:)

Andrew

Hi Gary,

I realize this is an old post, but the info is all new and relevant to me in that I just bought a 2005 FEH AWD and a Scan GaugeII

I live in a very cold climate--and soon to move to the world's second coldest capital: Ottawa. So my question to you is...
Do you think it worth the $700 odd dollars it costs to get the engine block heater/battery warmer installed? I'm expecting to get very poor MPG in -20 Celsius, so I imagine that being able to "plug it in" at night (unfortunately not to charge the battery) would help somewhat.

In the first few days, I managed to get my average MPG up to 31 at one point using your techniques, but finding it very difficult to stay there. Hoping the scan gauge will help.

Looking forward to your reply.

Andrew

Hi Andrew --

Welcome, & congratulations on your '05 FEH - it is a great little SUV :) :) :)

Are you sure yours doesn't already have an EBH? I drove mine for a year before I took a close look at the sticker & found mine had one that came standard :) I had to ask a tech at my dealership where it was - & it took *2* of them to find it :D The plug tucks up under the front license-plate. There's a little ledge up there where it fits while not in use, & even stays clean in rain & snow :) :)

If you have the sticker for it, check there, or ask at your dealer. (I apologize if you've already done this :o)

I can tell you from experience, the EBH *does* make a difference - so does a grille-block :)

Beyond that, read & re-read GaryG's & Wayne's articles & just keep adding new techniques to your hypermiling repertoire. We look forward to hearing about your progress :) :)

Thanks Sean, Rob, and Gary

Nice to feel like I'm not the only slow-driving enviro geek out there.

Things are generally that much more expensive in the Great White North, but I will certainly check out other options--although installing something myself may be a bit beyond me...The whole "tape up your radiator grill" thing feels counterintuitive, but makes sense.

Another question: How does one get the Scan Gauge to read the SoC? I'm assuming I have to put in a code in XGauge mode and then get some values back, interpret them, do some "MTH" and then give it a name...then it appears as a selectable option in "Gauge"?...I tried it once with a code that I found here in the forums (which I can't seem to find again), but I think the car was off. Not realizing at first that "Send" actually meant that SGII was communicating with the car's computer.

Not to be too much of a complainer while I'm still so new to these posts, but the ScanGauge II Manual is terribly unclear--definitely intended for those already "in the know" and not for newbies like me who just want great MPG and who don't want to do tons of research and learning in order to pull out of the driveway. What are PIDs anyway? Why can't the pdf on ScanGauge's web site with all the values for XGauge and the various vehicles simply tell you "for SoC readout, do this"? I have no idea what to do with those numbers.

Again, thanks for the responses. I will have to do some more reading when time permits...perhaps I will even write a "Hypermiling for Dummies" article.:)

Andrew
In the gallery I have a list of xgauges for the FEH. The entries for TXD,RXF,RXD,MTH, and even NAM are there, but you can make up any NAM that you like.
http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/500/medium/FEH_xgauge.JPG

There are many,many more possible xgauges, but not that many that are useful for every day driving. In fact, a lot on the list above I rarely ever use, but they could be useful in debugging if the need arises.

For me, SoC is ALWAYS there, MxC, CHT, Tav are usually there,depending on what conditions I'm driving in. I also have current fuel economy as an xgauge.

Thanks Carl,

That did the trick. I now have Current MPG, RPM, SoC, and eCVT Temperature on the Gauge. I think that's all I need until I get used to the car a little more and actually do some driving.

For the moment I've only been making 10 minute trips and it's quite difficult to get above 30MPG with little chance to warm up. I did get 46 MPG on a return trip this morning, so something is working right!

Going to try the grille block next and double check to see if I do or don't have a block heater.

Best,

Andrew:)

Debbie,

Thanks so much for that info about the Block Heater! I checked today and my FEH does indeed have the plug tucked up under the front plate just as you said.

Was cruising around today at 60kph (37mph) in EV mode--Immensely satisfying.

Best,

Andrew:)

Hello,
I just got a new '08 Escape Hybrid and am loving it. I do a lot of highway driving in very mountainous country. I drive 60+ miles roundtrip just about every day and average around 30 mpg on the highway (31-32mpg on the way to town, 28-29mpg on the return trip). I am very pleased with the city fuel economy, the other day I was getting an average of 55mpg in town using some of the techniques mentioned here, though I can consistently average 45 mpg in town.
I had a couple of questions regarding highway fuel economy in particular. Going up steep hills, I have to keep the engine going at around 3,500 to 4,200 rpms to keep my speed at 60-65 mph (speed limit is 65) and the FE dips to 20 mpg or a little below. Going downhill, that immediately jumps way down to under 1,500 rpms, and my fuel mileage meter suddenly jumps to maximum. The mileage meter on the navigation system only goes to 60 mpg, and the sudden jump all the way to max that tells me that I may be getting better than 60 mpg while descending hills. Does the mileage gauge actually measure above 60 mpg even though I'm not seeing it? If it doesn't, would the average mpg the computer shows me be lower than the actual mileage I'm getting? Do you have any tips for maximizing FE for the type of terrain I drive in on the highway? How much better mileage can I expect once the vehicle breaks in (it has 380 miles on it now)?
Thanks very much for your help!
Craig

Hi Craig

Yes, the Max Econ is measuring your average above 60mpg, it just will not display your mileage above 60mpg unless your in the metric readout. Most of us use the scangauge that will confirm mileage up to 9,999mpg averages.

You are getting exceptional mileage with only a few hundred miles on your MMH, so keep up the good work. Try to stay away from RPM's between 3,000 and 3,500 climbing hills because the torque curve is flat in that area.

When climbing hills, keep your speed and RPM's as low as possible, and read about driving with load (DWL) on this site. Shift to "N" to glide down hills and use "L" to slow if needed. I recommend at least max 44psi sidewall tire pressure, but I use 50psi myself with great MPG and tire wear. Their are many other tips to improve MPG, so read some of our post in the Ford section and articles on the home page. We will be happy to respond to questions and learn how your doing.

GaryG

Thanks Gary,
I have one more question. Does the odometer only measure miles travelled on the gas engine? I got this with a little over 300 miles on it and now the odometer reads 420mi when I know I've driven further than that.
Thanks,
Craig

Thanks Gary,
I have one more question. Does the odometer only measure miles travelled on the gas engine? I got this with a little over 300 miles on it and now the odometer reads 420mi when I know I've driven further than that.
Thanks,
Craig

The odometer measures all miles traveled in both EV and with the engine on or even off with the key in the run position (FAS).

Hi I'm a newbie here. Bought a used 2006 FEH 2 weeks ago with 44K on it from the dealer. A side story is that there was a noise in the rear that they said they would fix under their warranty. Turns out they had to replace the entire rear end! Bad bearings in the rear diff. Anyone have that happen on their FEH?

Anyway I'm not new to hybrids, my wife got the Honda Insight back in 2001 and we are very experienced with that. At 88K we have an average of 57.6MPG. Not bad for hilly + frigid Maine! I am quickly learning from experience -- and this forum -- that all the tricks I learned on the Insight aren't so relevant to the FEH. So I have read way back through this forum to learn how to drive this baby. I just love EV mode - I call it "Stealth Mode"! :)

I have ordered a ScanGauge II and will put it in next week and will stay in touch.

John, it just plugs in above the brake pedal and you do a easy set-up with the size of the engine, fuel you save hybrid, speed set plus 1%, choose CAN, set the back light to match you other gauge colors and set the CAN speed high. If you look at my photos here at CMPG, you will see where I mounted it which works great.

Sean, I knew you would put it to good use!

GaryG

Hi Gary,

Just curious about speed set plus 1% and set the CAN speed high. I notice that my SGII vs my computed numbers for miles, mpg, and gallons is always off by around 1% per tank. Was wondering if these settings might have something to do with these anomalies. Most of the time I have to run some type of RFG in SE WI, but occasionally I will get some straight gas when I travel outside of the area. I tried to find the FEH information in the SGII area of the hardware without much luck. If this is already covered there, I would be glad to read it there if you can point me in the right direction.

Thanks,
Bruce

I don't understand the reference to "speed set plus 1%" -- can someone explain what this means, and why it needs to be set? I totally geeked out with the SGII, and have set it to show stuff like when the AC is activated etc. As an electrical engineer I can say that this Gauge is one elegant piece of design and I would be very proud of it if I had designed it.

I don't understand the reference to "speed set plus 1%" -- can someone explain what this means, and why it needs to be set? I totally geeked out with the SGII, and have set it to show stuff like when the AC is activated etc. As an electrical engineer I can say that this Gauge is one elegant piece of design and I would be very proud of it if I had designed it.

Ron Delong is the inventor of the SG and many here have met him in person at the '07 Hybridfest event. Ron had a booth and held classes on the SG where we had a chance to ask question. CarlD who is a member here ask me to give Ron information he came up with in order to program SoC. Ron said it was the information he needed and we all could program SoC in the new X-Gauge chip and program. Carl, an EE, and Ron live and work within a few miles from each other and as a result have given us a large volume of different gauges to be added to the new X-Gauge programming in your SG.

I personally don't alter my gallons reading at fill-up, but Carl and I agreed the trip OD and the SG TANK mileage never match. In order to get them to match as close as possible, we tested our mileage at different % of speed increases. We both found our '05 FEH was between 1% and 2% off. The 2% plus speed adjustment caused the SG Tank mileage to be more than the OEM Trip OD. The 1% plus adjustment caused the SG Tank mileage to be lower than trip OD. Carl and I agree that the SG speed adjustment should be around 1.5% plus, but the SG will not adjust in tenths.

Changing brand tires will sometimes require a different change in speed because of the height of the tire. Also, the '08 model may need a different % adjustment than the '05 model. The best way to find out if you need to adjust the SG speed % to match the Trip OD is to compare the Tank mileage to the Trip mileage at fill-up. If your SG Tank mileage is lower than your Trip OD, start adding 1% until they match the best. Once the Trip OD and the SG Tank mileage are adjusted to match the mileage, the speed will match also for a better MPG reading. The OEM MPG gauge does not store enough data for an entire tank, therefore the SG MPG with never match the OEM MPG gauge. I rely on the SG solely because gas pumped at each fill can be off as much as three gallons. When I hear people post about adjusting their SG to the gallons they pump, I assume they are getting incorrect MPG readings all the time. I read on GH that posters are adjusting their SG up to 7% tring to match the gallons pumped. I'm not saying the gallons should not be recorded, but I am saying you should not adjust the SG to match those gallons pumped in the FEH/MMH.

GaryG

Appreciate the thorough answer Gary!

Wow and I have been adjusting at every fillup! Depending on the outside temperature and type of fuel, I have seen wide variances, sometimes adjusting it by nearly 10%. I generally don't mess with the OEM MPG gauge, as I was unaware that it couldn't store enough data for an entire tank. Thought I could reset it between oil changes. Any idea how much data the OEM MPG meter can store, as in how many miles driven is it reliable for? I can see adjusting my speed % by 1% as that seems to be how much I am typically off. When I can I try to get gas at the same station, same pump, same direction, etc., but that isn't always feasible.

Thanks,
Bruce

Appreciate the thorough answer Gary!

Wow and I have been adjusting at every fillup! Depending on the outside temperature and type of fuel, I have seen wide variances, sometimes adjusting it by nearly 10%. I generally don't mess with the OEM MPG gauge, as I was unaware that it couldn't store enough data for an entire tank. Thought I could reset it between oil changes. Any idea how much data the OEM MPG meter can store, as in how many miles driven is it reliable for? I can see adjusting my speed % by 1% as that seems to be how much I am typically off. When I can I try to get gas at the same station, same pump, same direction, etc., but that isn't always feasible.

Thanks,
Bruce

Sorry Bruce, I didn't see your response till now.

My Nav Sys MPG average starts to drift from my SGII Tank reading at around 200 miles. I reset my Nav MPG at fill-up and reset the SGII Tank at the same time. No one that I've talk to knows how much data can be stored or how data is dropped in the OEM MPG average.

I'm hoping the new 2nd Generation Nav Sys in my ordered '09 will store more data so we can get a real Tank average.

GaryG

As a side note to this thread, we've had the Honda Insight since 2000 and it has a life of the vehicle MPG average display (currently at 58.6 at 82000MI) and then 2 trip meters that show miles and averaged MPG per trip. Lately on our hilly Maine back roads we are getting 60-64 MPG on short trips averaging 45MPH.

So the SGII seems to fit the same needs for me and I'm used to thinking in per trip terms, but I miss the "life of vehicle" average MPG.

Thanks for pointing out the +1% speed correction for the SGII I was wondering which gauge to trust the vehicle or the SGII, now they are both pretty much in agreement.
Guy

I realize this is a very old thread. Unfortunately I had not
studied up on it *before* going out to tool around in an FEH
this afternoon, or I would have had a vaguely better notion on
how to fake-shift my way to engine shutdown ... but the larger
issue is this: coming from the Prius world, I simply cannot
believe the twisted rationale behind the fact that normally,
the ICE does *not* shut down on a low-speed glide as a matter
of course. Everything else operational is so similar to the
Prius and other Toyota offerings ... where you take your foot
off the pedal at < 40 MPH, and boom, the ICE comes to a standstill
and you're ghosting along on a little bit of electric, not
burning any gas. WHY does the FEH not do this, as it's such a
basic thing?? The bit about tapping the brakes is fairly useless,
as it seems to take a *substantial* bit of slowdown to trigger
ICE-off and pretty much throws away any advantage the subsequent
rest of the glide might have given.
.
I'm really disappointed here. If it was my vehicle to pork with
I'd be in there figuring out what piece of signaling from the
braking side of things tells the HV ECU to kill the engine, and
wiring up something to fake that without actually applying the
brake pedal. Or I'd trade the thing in for a car that actually
works right...
.
_H*

There are so many days that I rage in anger at the difficulty of getting the older FEHs to move into EV mode. It is truly a challenge to my patients, especially on cold days. On warm days it is fairly predictable and much more easily achieved ... but it is still more work than it should be.

It seems that this wasn't truly addressed until the '09 model, where it does act like it should, going into EV mode simply by letting up on the accelerator anywhere under 40 mph.

I have often wondered if something similar to your "yuppie button" would provide the signal to go EV under 40 mph, but I am not technically skilled enough to give that a try:o
It would be manna from heaven though.

There are so many days that I rage in anger at the difficulty of getting the older FEHs to move into EV mode. It is truly a challenge to my patients, especially on cold days. On warm days it is fairly predictable and much more easily achieved ... but it is still more work than it should be.

It seems that this wasn't truly addressed until the '09 model, where it does act like it should, going into EV mode simply by letting up on the accelerator anywhere under 40 mph.

I have often wondered if something similar to your "yuppie button" would provide the signal to go EV under 40 mph, but I am not technically skilled enough to give that a try:o
It would be manna from heaven though.

Hi Rob

On cold days sometimes I have to use the brake pedal tap in neutral to go EV in my '05 FEH. This eliminates regen which is sometimes the reason you can't go EV. The battery just can't except MG1 and regen at the same time when it's cold. I warm up the battery faster when it's cold with a few glides in "D" or just using the brake lightly in "D" for mild regen. This light charging is just what the battery needs to get out of this long cycle of staying cold and allows you to go EV faster and longer in the cold weather. In fact, I had to use this technique more than a few times during this winter challenge to maintain a 57.6mpg tank. The objective is to warm the battery by charging it a little faster than it's programmed.

Hope this helps!

GaryG

Hi Rob

On cold days sometimes I have to use the brake pedal tap in neutral to go EV in my '05 FEH. This eliminates regen which is sometimes the reason you can't go EV. The battery just can't except MG1 and regen at the same time when it's cold. I warm up the battery faster when it's cold with a few glides in "D" or just using the brake lightly in "D" for mild regen. This light charging is just what the battery needs to get out of this long cycle of staying cold and allows you to go EV faster and longer in the cold weather. In fact, I had to use this technique more than a few times during this winter challenge to maintain a 57.6mpg tank. The objective is to warm the battery by charging it a little faster than it's programmed.

Hope this helps!

GaryG

Thanks Gary. That is very interesting, because mine does not go EV if I'm in Neutral and I tap the breaks. Every time I do that it stays in ICE mode, so then I end up putting it in D and tapping the breaks to go EV. I have noticed what you mean about it being unable to accept regen before the batteries get warm though, that is definitely not the time for for any LGA. LGA during warm-up just seems to cause the high RPM spin, even when the SoC is in the low 40s.

So was your 57.6mpg tank in the '09 or the '05? I knew you could break 50 in the '09, but I didn't think that was very possible in the '05.

Thanks again!

Thanks Gary. That is very interesting, because mine does not go EV if I'm in Neutral and I tap the breaks. Every time I do that it stays in ICE mode, so then I end up putting it in D and tapping the breaks to go EV. I have noticed what you mean about it being unable to accept regen before the batteries get warm though, that is definitely not the time for for any LGA. LGA during warm-up just seems to cause the high RPM spin, even when the SoC is in the low 40s.

So was your 57.6mpg tank in the '09 or the '05? I knew you could break 50 in the '09, but I didn't think that was very possible in the '05.

Thanks again!

I've had a problem with the neutral tap working in temperatures below 40F and had to warm the battery a little first. It made me mad also, so the first time it does that I work on getting the battery warm. Make sure you park at night with a low SoC so you drop below 40% SoC during the warm-up strategy. This causes MG1 to charge faster when the SoC gets near 32% and the warm-up strategy ends no matter what. This also heats the battery in the same way light regen does.

All I can get here in Florida now is E10 and I can only squeeze 44mpg tanks in the '05 on that. The best I've done in the '05 is low 50mpg tanks on straight gas. I can push the '09 with 70mpg and better on trips with E10 now that I've changed to a faster pulse and the accelerator blip for a restart out of EV. During my pulse, I watch the Charge/Discharge needle to maintain just the right amount of MG1 charging while accelerating. I also surge charge a little with MG1 by letting Off the accelerator for a quick second in "D" to boost battery SoC. It will drop into EV if your not careful with this surge boost but I get excellent results most of the time. I'm very close to breaking a 60mpg tank with E10 in the '09 FEH but I don't have any idea what she is good for with straight gas. I was able to recover a 13% offset SGII from a 55.3mpg reading after being in the shop for repairs to a 59.6mpg reading at fill-up. The Nav tank MPG was reset for some reason in the shop but it had a 62.6mpg reading at fill-up. Of course I go by gas pumped at fill-up and that gave me a 57.6mpg tank using 13.543 gallons of E10. This '09 FEH rocks for me even on E10.

GaryG

I've had a problem with the neutral tap working in temperatures below 40F and had to warm the battery a little first. It made me mad also, so the first time it does that I work on getting the battery warm. Make sure you park at night with a low SoC so you drop below 40% SoC during the warm-up strategy. This causes MG1 to charge faster when the SoC gets near 32% and the warm-up strategy ends no matter what. This also heats the battery in the same way light regen does.

All I can get here in Florida now is E10 and I can only squeeze 44mpg tanks in the '05 on that. The best I've done in the '05 is low 50mpg tanks on straight gas. I can push the '09 with 70mpg and better on trips with E10 now that I've changed to a faster pulse and the accelerator blip for a restart out of EV. During my pulse, I watch the Charge/Discharge needle to maintain just the right amount of MG1 charging while accelerating. I also surge charge a little with MG1 by letting Off the accelerator for a quick second in "D" to boost battery SoC. It will drop into EV if your not careful with this surge boost but I get excellent results most of the time. I'm very close to breaking a 60mpg tank with E10 in the '09 FEH but I don't have any idea what she is good for with straight gas. I was able to recover a 13% offset SGII from a 55.3mpg reading after being in the shop for repairs to a 59.6mpg reading at fill-up. The Nav tank MPG was reset for some reason in the shop but it had a 62.6mpg reading at fill-up. Of course I go by gas pumped at fill-up and that gave me a 57.6mpg tank using 13.543 gallons of E10. This '09 FEH rocks for me even on E10.

GaryG

I do always park at night with < 41% SoC. I can EV from the entrance of the neighborhood all the way into the garage pretty consistently. In the mornings, I always worry when I get below 36% SoC though. So you really think that 32% is okay?

I know what you mean about the E10 issue, that is all we have here in KY as well. I was able to get one 44mpg tank late last summer. I am glad to know that "once in a blue moon" I can do as well as you did in your '05 :) I'll just have to keep trying to be more consistent with it.

I am glad to see just how much the FEH has advanced in the '09 version. I won't be getting anything new for a long time, but I can always hope that the wife does ;)

Those are phenomenal results, Gary! Rob, looks like you are well on your way to learning how to extend your mileage to the next level, too. :thumbs_up:

I do always park at night with < 41% SoC. I can EV from the entrance of the neighborhood all the way into the garage pretty consistently. In the mornings, I always worry when I get below 36% SoC though. So you really think that 32% is okay?

I know what you mean about the E10 issue, that is all we have here in KY as well. I was able to get one 44mpg tank late last summer. I am glad to know that "once in a blue moon" I can do as well as you did in your '05 :) I'll just have to keep trying to be more consistent with it.

I am glad to see just how much the FEH has advanced in the '09 version. I won't be getting anything new for a long time, but I can always hope that the wife does ;)

A 44mpg tank in a '07 FEH on E10 is very respectable and means your doing the right things. I've dropped my SoC near 32% in my '05 FEH so many times it's not funny during the warm-up strategy. It seams Ford followed my hypermiling strategies of keeping a low SoC most of the time because I now have to work on building the SoC in my '09 FEH. I changed strategies in the '09 because there is no heavy regen with the use of the LGA. I try and start my glide in neutral with 43.6% SoC so I never drop down below 42% SoC holding the bag at a stop while the engine is running. When I finish my glide I control the engine running with the pulse back to speed. I continue P&G over and over till I have a 45 - 46% (even higher) SoC for a long EV segment with the CC On. I find CC holds a more efficient steady state speed in EV than my problem feet.

Sean, thanks for the support. I can't believe the '09 FEH still has room for tank MPG improvement.

GaryG

So ... back to the other topic, if the older FEHs *did* go to
EV as easily as a Prius in a wider variety of temps, what kind
of tanks do you think you'd be pulling out of them then?? And
has anyone considered a mod to try and force ICE shutdown?
.
_H*

So ... back to the other topic, if the older FEHs *did* go to
EV as easily as a Prius in a wider variety of temps, what kind
of tanks do you think you'd be pulling out of them then?? And
has anyone considered a mod to try and force ICE shutdown?
.
_H*

Hi Hobbit

It would increase the mileage to go EV much faster and easier by a few MPG but the real impact is ethanol. The older FEH with the 2.3L engine has its limits with acceleration without electric motor assist with straight gas and E10 really has an impact for the worse. I manage EV quite well in the older FEH and it's just a small delay in dropping into EV for me. A mod to go EV would be nice but warranty issues are a big concern of mine right now on my '05 FEH.

GaryG

So ... back to the other topic, if the older FEHs *did* go to
EV as easily as a Prius in a wider variety of temps, what kind
of tanks do you think you'd be pulling out of them then?? And
has anyone considered a mod to try and force ICE shutdown?
.
_H*

I was initially surprised at apparently how much FE the Ford engineers left on the table with the FEH. However, since I have been fooling around with the software and learned more about it, I think I understand a little bit more why they did certain things. The first thing I did was to increase the EV speed to 45MPH - big mistake! At 45MPH, a restart out of EV when in CC draws tremendous instantaneous current, over 100A. If one was tooling along at 45MPH in EV then mashed the go pedal, the current draw would be even greater as the FEH tried to restart the engine and accelerate with the traction motor. It must be an issue with the 2.3L engine because restarts draw substantial current even at 30MPH. Also, perhaps surprisingly, there is significant current draw when the ICE is turned off. I'm guessing here, but my theory is that the engineers wanted to make sure that if the ICE was turned off, it would be in a situation where it would stay off for at least a little while. Brief large current surges were probably thought to be detrimental to battery life. They also play havoc with the SOC algorithm. My prior dealings with Ford when they used my chips gave me the impression (personal opinion only) that they were very conservative and generally traded off performance and FE for perceived reliability. At any rate, if you are coasting in D and not touching the stop or go pedals, the ICE will turn off on its own at about 30MPH. If you are coasting and lightly apply the brakes, the ICE will shut down fairly quickly at speeds less than 40MPH. This is due to the negative torque request from the driver and can be spoofed. I have decoded most of the CAN messages and know where the various data are but spoofing requires breaking the CAN line and installing a repeater that can modify the specific bytes but leave everything else alone. When my hybrid warranty expires I will probably try to re-flash with some more aggressively modified software. I bought some salvage yard ECUs to play around with and may eventually post some things but my sabbatical is over and I have less time to play.

Hi Al:

___I want to add another perspective and it has to do with the hybrid drivetrain generation. The 10 FEH even with the new 2.5L is still using most of the first generations programming in the few minutes I have driven one. Where the real third generation and later stuff appears is with the FFH. Once above 141, any let off below 45 and its down. This superior strategy trumps not just the FEH’s two generations but also the Prius’ and every other HSD equipped hybrid as anyone who owns or has driven one and knowing what he or she was looking for via a Scan Gauge has experienced failed glides time and time again. The Fusion Hybrid simply does not fail “ever” with coolant temps above the 141degrees F threshold no matter the speed.

___Sorry to the FEH owners for incorporating FFH discussion within Gary’s excellent thread.

___Good Luck

___Wayne

Hi Al:

___I want to add another perspective and it has to do with the hybrid drivetrain generation. The 10 FEH even with the new 2.5L is still using most of the first generations programming in the few minutes I have driven one. Where the real third generation and later stuff appears is with the FFH. Once above 141, any let off below 45 and its down. This superior strategy trumps not just the FEH’s two generations but also the Prius’ and every other HSD equipped hybrid as anyone who owns or has driven one and knowing what he or she was looking for via a Scan Gauge has experienced failed glides time and time again. The Fusion Hybrid simply does not fail “ever” with coolant temps above the 141degrees F threshold no matter the speed.

___Sorry to the FEH owners for incorporating FFH discussion within Gary’s excellent thread.

___Good Luck

___Wayne

Hi Wayne

Coolant temperature must be a lot higher in my '05 (140 ish) than my '09 FEH to go EV after a cold start. The '09 FEH must not use head or coolant temperature as a requirement for EV. My guess is that Cat Light-Out is the point Ford programmed the '09 FEH to go EV. I've gone EV at 112F coolant temperature many times in my '09 but it varies up to 134F. The '10 FEH I test drove went EV even quicker than my '09 on a cold rainy night.

The '09 FEH will go EV vary fast at any decel at or below the EV threshold speed and will even go EV in CC at the max EV threshold. Sometimes my '09 requires a 42% SoC to go EV but I've gone EV with as low as a 41.2% SoC during P&G when I screw-up letting it drop that low. I've never had a failed glide going into EV at 40mph and below except with a low SoC or cold battery in the '09 FEH. If Ford changed the programming in the '10 FEH than it might have been because of the electric A/C to keep the battery at a higher SoC. I was having a real hard time in the BMW X6 Hybrid keeping a high enough SoC for EV during P&G so Ford may have had to change the '10 FEH programming, I just don't know from my short drive. I would say it would be impossible for the FFH to drop into EV faster than my '09 FEH because it goes instantly and consistently every time. I even go EV if I shift to "N" for my glide before I've got my foot completely off the accelerator.

Above 40mph there is a three second delay programmed for decel for full fuel-cut in "D" but you can over ride that delay with a light tap of the brake pedal in the '09. Rick and I found we didn't need the required 46% SoC for fuel-cut if you tap the brake also. Ford must have put the three second delay programming to prevent going in and out of fuel-cut so much. Ford also should have programmed the '05 - '08 FEH to go EV at 40mpg in three seconds like it did at 30mph and below. The brake tap for fuel-cut in the '09 FEH is even much faster than the brake tap to go EV in the older FEH.

GaryG

Questions for GARY G from another Gary G.

I have just ordered a 2010 FEH AWD. Do you know if the northern states version comes with a Block Heater? Stealer says its not an option. What about EV Battery heaters anyone got these or doing it as an aftermarket effort? Even though our 2010 FEH will be garaged Stanley IDAHO is well known for its very cold temps. Any thoughts on temperature issues much appreciated.

I understand the 2010 uses a new and different system for the A/C and also for the top end EV speeds. Any knowledge on these changes.

I'm new with the FEH but always been a Hyper miler with the present 2006 FE and the 2000 FORD Super Duty. Been using the Scan gauge II with X Gauge for about three years now.

Look forward to learning to Hyper mile the new FEH and especially enjoy reading all I can on this great Forum. Thanks for all your great articles and that goes for Wayne Geddes too.

GARY

Questions for GARY G from another Gary G.

I have just ordered a 2010 FEH AWD. Do you know if the northern states version comes with a Block Heater? Stealer says its not an option. What about EV Battery heaters anyone got these or doing it as an aftermarket effort? Even though our 2010 FEH will be garaged Stanley IDAHO is well known for its very cold temps. Any thoughts on temperature issues much appreciated.

I understand the 2010 uses a new and different system for the A/C and also for the top end EV speeds. Any knowledge on these changes.

I'm new with the FEH but always been a Hyper miler with the present 2006 FE and the 2000 FORD Super Duty. Been using the Scan gauge II with X Gauge for about three years now.

Look forward to learning to Hyper mile the new FEH and especially enjoy reading all I can on this great Forum. Thanks for all your great articles and that goes for Wayne Geddes too.

GARY

I don't recall Idaho being a state the FEH comes standard with a block heater but even if it did, Ford eliminated the battery heater in the late '08 FEH on. Ford went to cabin venting for the battery in the '10 FEH with an electric A/C compressor so you now have the cabin heater to heat the battery. All good changes IMO.

The top EV speed for the '10 FEH is 44mph which is plenty for a 330V NH battery and full fuel-cut on decel above that speed. Even with my solid 40mph EV speed, MPG decreases from lower speeds because the battery last longer and I go longer distances at lower speeds in EV.

I do not use after market parts or systems in either of my FEH's and recommend stock FEH Ford parts and equipment. The SGII is the only thing I recommend as added equipment and I have four SGII right now. Both my FEH have the Nav systems and are fully loaded except for AWD and side steps that reduce MPG way to much for Florida driving.

The Ford FEH and FFH drivetrains are second to none and based on EPA ratings can kill the competition. I had a slow start in my '09 FEH because of the changes and false stock gauge readings and the SGII Off-Set adjustment requirements. I'm on my way now with a great lifetime mileage average that's increasing everyday. I was hoping a FFH owner would beat me to the lead of the Toyota Prius Lifetime average.

GaryG

Thanks for posting this. I just purchased an 08 Escape Hybrid 4x4 last week, and on my first tank I've averaged 31.2 MPG. After reading this thread I have some more stuff to experiment with. Today I aired up the tires to 45 PSI (the sidewall max), and I moved my ScanGauge from my old vehicle to the Escape. The MPG can only go up from here. I would love to take a ride with the people getting 70 MPG in their Escapes. Hopefully one day I will be one of those folks.

Thanks for posting this. I just purchased an 08 Escape Hybrid 4x4 last week, and on my first tank I've averaged 31.2 MPG. After reading this thread I have some more stuff to experiment with. Today I aired up the tires to 45 PSI (the sidewall max), and I moved my ScanGauge from my old vehicle to the Escape. The MPG can only go up from here. I would love to take a ride with the people getting 70 MPG in their Escapes. Hopefully one day I will be one of those folks.

Congratulations on your recent purchase and welcome to CleanMPG!

70 mpg might be a stretch for your vehicle. The people getting that high are driving the newer version of the technology in the '09 and more recent ones. You can certainly expect to get some 70+ mpg segments, but for an entire tank, I think that mid-to-high 40s may be a little more realistic.

It is great that you pumped up your tires, because one of the best ways to get higher MPGs in the FEH is "gliding" in EV mode. Gentle accelerate up to 40mph (or less), double tap, wait for the Tach bounce, shift to N, and ride the glide. Having your tires properly inflated will let the glide last longer and allow you to maintain your speed longer. The farther the glide, the fewer drops of fuel needed. I've kept my tires at 50psi for a little over three years now with very little wear for 50k miles. All of us here find our own comfort zone with tire psi.

I don't recall any FEH owners in the VA area, but it seems like there were a few videos posted at one time that were very much like "going for a ride". I can't seem to find them right now. Hopefully someone else knows there whereabouts?

Good luck and again, welcome!

Thanks, I also realize that the guys getting 70 MPG are also driving the 2wd version. I had already discovered the brake tap to go into EV mode before reading this. I discovered that on the way home from the dealer getting stuck in stop & go traffic on the DC beltway. I'm doing much better than my sister does in her Honda CR-V 4x4, and she can get E0 fuel in her area. I'm stuck buying E10. For as small and light as the vehicle is, it does glide far. My only complaint is that its hard to accelerate in EV mode at a quick enough rate to not piss off the traffic behind me. Also, I've found that if I encounter a hill in EV mode, no matter how slow I try to take it, the ICE will start. I live west of DC, and although I'm not in the mountains, they're not far away so the terrain is hilly.

I also found it odd that Ford put a 180F thermostat in the vehicle. I'm used to thermostats being 195F. I also noticed when riding a 10 mile stretch of highway the yesterday that the coolant temp (I'm looking at FWT on the Scangauge) stays much below 180, even on the highway. I may have to look into a partial grille block because winter is fast approaching.

I only accelerate from a stop to about 20 mph and then blip the accelerator pedal to start the ICE into a gentle acceleration. I think it uses too much battery to accelerate above that, plus it is the below 20 mph acceleration that uses the most fuel.

Depending on the size of the hill, I take one of two tactics:
1.) Plan my acceleration to hit the start of the hill at 40 mph and double tap+EV glide over the top. This works for smaller hills.
2.) For larger hills, I plan my acceleration (between 40 - 50 mph) so that I can use Driving With Load (DWL) at the lowest possible rpms. I still try to use gentle acceleration (<1500rpms) to get up to whatever is my target starting speed is, but sometimes I still go above. DWL requires a very gentle touch on the accelerator pedal and I try to target 1200-1300 rpms whenever possible.

Here is a link with pictures to adding a grill block to the FEH (https://sites.google.com/site/feh07a/) I keep mine on year round and have never seen my FWT over 198.

Yeah, I've noticed that even on flat ground, accelerating from a stop in EV mode, the engine will start at about 28 MPH. Its great for residential streets and parking lots though. Yesterday I was able to drive almost a mile through my neighborhood and park in my driveway without the ICE starting. I think my largest challenge is going to be the warmup, as I only live about 3 miles from work.

I think I found the YouTube videos you mentioned:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e54vGfAWiVc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_lqYXz324Y

After watching them, I went out to visit a friend a couple towns over (in rush hour traffic so I can maximize EV mode) On my way there traffic was ok, and I had the cruise set on 55MPH. On the way back I was doing P&G where traffic allowed, and kept the engine in EV mode as much as possible. My scangauge says I averaged 40MPG today. With the scangauge I'm now able to keep the vehicle in EV mode reliably to about 32 MPH, so I can ride at 30 and have the motor pretty much stay off. In the case that it does start I shift to Neutral, tap the brake, and the engine shuts off & I can glide some more.

I was wondering, I know the thermostat is supposed to be a 180F, but what's the normal real-world engine operating temperature? The other day when I was driving on the highway it stayed in the 160's. This morning, the engine warmed up to 130 very quickly, then actually started cooling down again when I was sitting at a light. I think my thermostat may be partially stuck open, or opening way too soon. The outside temp was 57F.

My commute is 14 miles on mostly 35-45 mph streets. My FWT goes as high as 172, but is usually between 128-161. It drops every time I'm in EV mode, which is a problem in the winter because if it drops below 128, the ICE will kick on to warm it up, even at a stop. The grill block helps, but heat is still lost. Running the cabin heater increases the decline, so some of use also employ the DWG technique (Driving With Gloves) ;)

This morning the ICE did not shut off until I turned into the parking lot at work. The heat and fan were barely on, and the engine was still dropping in temp as I sat at a light. I may just drop it off at the dealer had have them look at it. I bought a 7 year 125,000 mile bumper to bumper warranty. Might as well start using it. The temp seemed to hover in the 130's, and the SoC was at about 53%. I tried once to just shut the engine off at a red light, but then found out the hard way you can't start the car in Neutral. I had to go to Park to restart :(

This morning the ICE did not shut off until I turned into the parking lot at work. The heat and fan were barely on, and the engine was still dropping in temp as I sat at a light. I may just drop it off at the dealer had have them look at it. I bought a 7 year 125,000 mile bumper to bumper warranty. Might as well start using it. The temp seemed to hover in the 130's, and the SoC was at about 53%. I tried once to just shut the engine off at a red light, but then found out the hard way you can't start the car in Neutral. I had to go to Park to restart :(

The '09 FEH now has a sensor to detect a stuck open thermostat. There must have been a problem in the older FEH.

You can start the FEH in neutral, but you have to be moving at least 6mph. Below 6mph, you have to stop and put it in Park to start the engine. I learned that when I traveled in the FAS lane like Sean.

GaryG

GaryG,

I first want to thank you for your valuable information and effort to make this into almost a science to conserve fuel.

I am will try and keep this short and to the point. After a year and half, I finally found a used 2005 Ford Escape Hybrid AWD with Nav System. I had researched the Escape Hybrid and was dead set on getting this vehicle as all the reviews and current reviews on the quality of this vehicle were outstanding. I was in a position last year that I could no longer continue to keep my SUV ( 2003 Eddie Bauer all the Bells and Whistles Expedition). It was in great condition and ran very well but killed me on gas. I waited for the right price on an Escape and was patient and now finally found one for the right price in my opinion. I got it for $9k with 97K on it. Any amount can be scary though if this battery goes out! But research shows the odds are against that happening due to the design of the Hybrid battery.

Two weeks ago I purchased the FEH after test driving it for over an hour two days in a row and everything worked perfectly and ran smoothly. However, it is now at 98,000k and I am just wanting to make sure I am doing your strategy correctly as I can NOT seem to get anything close to the results you did. I am averaging 24/27 in the city. I am sure I am doing something wrong. I am getting better MPG than my Expedition once did but it makes me wonder if my battery is still working okay. Obviously, big concern for me as I know how much Hybrid batteries cost! I thought the FEH had a 150,000 warranty on battery. I missed the fine detail that I have to live in a Carb state. I do not!

I am currently getting around 24/27 mpg in city depending on how cold it is and got 33 mpg on the highway last week and that was before I knew what I was doing. I noticed I got better mileage staying off the cruise control and used the 1800 rms to accelerate my speed before reading all your info. :)

I have read your information but maybe I am missing something so I thought I would tell you what I am doing and you can point out my errors.

I drain the battery at night on my last trip home by getting it to EV or N to park it for the night. I realize I am not going to get good mpg when I start it up until the FEH (ICE)warms up. I read your info over and over on how to do that but results are still not good:

I do not reset my Fuel indicator screen on each trip. Am I to reset it on each drive? It says in the owner's manual that it remembers so I assumed I am not to reset it for each drive or trip. Is this correct? Perhaps, this is why my MPG is lower. I thought you only reset it on every new fill up.

I put the FEH in "L" and drive for about a block or so up to 30 mph and quickly let off gas and then put it in "N" and coast down to 20mph and then do another shift to "L" and take it up to 32/35 mph and then release off the gas quickly and then shift to "N".

This charges the battery some but not 60%.....maybe only 25/30%. I use this strategy even after warm up as well and find the same results that the battery doesn't get as big of a charge unless I am doing it wrong or not reading the Nav System correctly.

The FEH does go to EV mode but only allows me less than a mile (maybe half mile) before going back to gas mode (ICE I believe). As soon as I go to ICE or right before I think it is going to ICE, I shift to "L" again and try to get it to 30 and release off the gas and do this FS (fake Shift) twice but it doesn't charge the battery enough to really stay in EV mode. This method may give me 25% Hybrid battery charge. So, I am thinking I am not doing something correctly. I have been doing this method for over 2 days and the temperature outside is 35/40 during the day and 25 at night and my mpg is still around 24mpg.

It seems to me that I was getting better results from just coasting or letting off the gas when I could and using EV whenever it allowed me to. I do not seem to be able to charge my EV fast after using all the battery.

After you exhaust your battery, do you not stay in "L" mode and do the FS until it gets charged to about 40%? I just don"t want to ruin this vehicle and would like my city mileage to go up which is why I bought it. I was shocked I got 33mpg on the highway.

I do know when the Hybrid battery is fully charged and I go into EV mode that I can not get it to a mile before battery is exhausted. I am driving EV in D most the time and staying between 25/30mph. Of course, I have noticed people honking at me now as I am under the 35 mph speed limit just to try and keep EV on. Is there something wrong with my 2005 FEH? Please say its operator error. :) I have big shoulders!

I have never been able to drive in EV up to 40mph. My best is EV in D up to 32mph. I think you suggested to keep it in "L" to get up to 40. I am just not able to run EV long or it isn't easy when your speed limits are 35 and 45 all the time.

There are other questions but perhaps this will do for now.

Thanks for your time~
Action

Welcome to CleanMPG. Have you checked the 12V battery? I only suggest that because I know that in the Prius an aging 12V can make the mileage tank as the car spends its time keeping the 12V voltage up.

Hi Action

First of all, I had an '05 FWD and hypermiling allowed me to take advantage of much better coasting in "N" than a AWD. Also, E10 drastically effects the 2.3L MPG which changed in the '09 2.5L FEH I drive now. Florida mandated E10 in April of '08 and I seen a drop in MPG of at least 5mpg and never seen anymore 60mpg tanks. I sold my loaded '05 FEH at 80,000 miles last May for $11,200, so you did get a good deal.

Next, you must set-up your FEH with Michelin Latitude Tours or other light weight LRR tires with at least 50psi. Don't expect much higher EV speeds with an AWD with heavy tires that are not LRR. Only use "L" to go EV or slowing down in a controlled regen mode. Do not drive at a steady state speed in "L". Going 40mph in EV is only possible in a glide coasting in "D" or "N" in the '05 - '08 FEH. Newer programming allows me to set the cruise control in EV at 40mph till the battery drops to 40% SoC in my '09 FEH FWD. I could only set the cruise control at 35mph in EV in my '05 FEH only with no headwind.

Get a Scangauge II and program SoC in the X-Gauge if you don't already have a SGII. This is also a Scan tool to provide DTC codes when your FEH has problems. I have at least one in every car I own and never leave home without one. CarlD has provided just about every X-Gauge programming at this site you'll ever need. The Nav system can't be compared to the SGII and the Nav average tank MPG in the '05 - '08 FEH is only good for about the first 200 miles of a tank. After 200 miles the Nav drops data and adds new data which will change your average. Always use gallons pumped divided by tank miles at fill-up for establishing a lifetime MPG average. Use the Mileage Log at this site for us to help you improve your mileage. Many of us here can interpret your Log over time and make suggestions based on weather and your conditions or problems. I don't think you have a HV battery problem from your post so far.

GaryG