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I was reading over at "Temple of VTEC" that there is a way to test the "Reserve Capacity " of The HCHII battery pack. Apparently Honda will not replace a battery until it drops below 35%.

Does anyone here have any experience with this? I don't recall anyone ever mentionong there was this type of capacity test.

This really goes to the heart of the issues so many have been reported. Honda obviously doesn't want to admit the battery packs are prone to failure.

Any info from other owners would be very valuable in pressing this with Honda.

Cheers,

Roger

The HCHII battery is rated for 5.5 AH. So with a brand new battery, you should be able to draw 50A load for 11 mins before it is fully drained. However, the HCHII only charges the battery to 80% and only lets it discharge to 20%, so I'm guessing the real capacity is only about 60% percent of the battery rating.

You would need special equipment - a known fixed resistive load, DC voltmeter that can measure up to 200V, and you'd need the discharge curve. I believe MSantos has posted this in a few threads. It shows the voltage at the 80% fully charged and 20% discharged.

You'd have to time how long it discharges form 80% to 20% and this would allow you to calculate the remaining capacity of the battery in Amp hours.

I don't know if Honda put in a self test, or if they use separate equipment to test the battery. I'm guessing they remove the battery and test it outside of the vehicle. (this rules out any issues with the vehicle electronics).

I was reading over at "Temple of VTEC" that there is a way to test the "Reserve Capacity " of The HCHII battery pack. Apparently Honda will not replace a battery until it drops below 35%.

Does anyone here have any experience with this? I don't recall anyone ever mentionong there was this type of capacity test.

This really goes to the heart of the issues so many have been reported. Honda obviously doesn't want to admit the battery packs are prone to failure.

Any info from other owners would be very valuable in pressing this with Honda.

Cheers,

Roger

the better question is how to get the pack below that capacity before the warranty runs out at 80K miles so Honda has to foot the bill, not us.

My pack continues to crash after the update. Two days ago I charged the IMA pack up to "full" via the dash gauge by holding the accelerator down to 3000 rpm until it was full. The next day it crashed within 3 minutes, and crashed again the same day. I remember reading somewhere that the 1st gen MT Insight could be driven in a lower gear for an extended period, maxing out assist and eventually killing the IMA battery. As far as I know we can't do that with the CVTs though.

Is any IMA info available in a Scangauge (I don't have one at this point)?

Correct (on the can't do that with a CVT statement). The ScanGauge currently cannot show any IMA info -- it may be available for discovery on the system (CAN) bus but no one has yet figured out XGauges which would be able to display anything about the involved components.

Hi Roger;

Indeed, it is possible to check the capacity of the battery pack (usually at the std. reference baseline of 21C).
Measuring the voltage at the primary terminals of the pack is of no real use if that is all we do.
Measuring the voltage at the terminals of each module is better, but that too is not a solid indicator either.
Placing an instrumented load at each module and then measuring the current rate flow as well as the drop in voltage is the preferred method in assemblies of this type.

Back in the fall of 2006 we completely removed an HCH-II battery pack and performed a fair bit of testing on it, but without a greater sample of packs to look at we simply cannot say much about how they age since that one was pretty new and perfectly balanced.

Finally, even if Honda corporate does not want to publicly acknowledge the inherent design and operational limitations of this battery pack design, we, and Honda's own engineers have long known that this design requires a more stringent management process to ensure a longer operational life-span.
With time some owners will have a early failures to report while others will not. That is just the way the story unfolds and we have indeed been beating this drum since the HCH-II's early days.

Despite the current internal turmoil at Honda on this very subject, what truly saddens me is the official position that Honda corporate has taken on this issue and the feedback/responses they are providing to their dealers and customers.
Contrary to the current corporate wisdom, this is not only harming them badly, but also giving the Honda hybrid product line a black eye from which they cannot, and will not easily recover from. :(


Cheers;

MSantos

Contrary to the current corporate wisdom, this is not only harming them badly, but also giving the Honda hybrid product line a black eye from which they cannot, and will not easily recover from.

So you're saying steadfastly alienating your customers is not good? ;)

This has me steamed: here's a guy who's HCHII regularly starts via the traditional starter and 12 volt, and Honda's saying it's normal:

http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=34588

Hi Mendel;

Pretty amazing is it not?

Then again one should not be surprised to see it happen this way as the front line support mechanisms at Honda (and especially so for Honda Canada) are staffed by folks that, don't own, don't drive and don't even know much about Honda Hybrids other than whats contained in the offical paperwork and scripts they are given to read. It is sad, but true and also very disappointing.

With this said, I also know a small number of good and hard working folks at Honda who are definitely not pulling the strings on this one and if things roll out of control, then I am quite certain that we can expect yet another shakeup to occur in the ranks again.
Its just too bad that while these departmental shakeups occur, some loyal Honda customers will be lost forever. :(

Cheers;

MSantos

You would need special equipment - a known fixed resistive load, DC voltmeter that can measure up to 200V, and you'd need the discharge curve.

Special indeed. That "fixed resistive load" is going to be a heck of a lot more complex than the one in a typical 12V battery tester. The amount of stored energy in the hybrid's battery that needs to be converted to heat is huge. Unless the test takes a long, long time, that resistive load will need to be actively cooled. Maybe it could be done with a fan blowing over the load, but I'm thinking this is probably in the realm where liquid cooling is required.

Special indeed. That "fixed resistive load" is going to be a heck of a lot more complex than the one in a typical 12V battery tester. The amount of stored energy in the hybrid's battery that needs to be converted to heat is huge. Unless the test takes a long, long time, that resistive load will need to be actively cooled. Maybe it could be done with a fan blowing over the load, but I'm thinking this is probably in the realm where liquid cooling is required.

Yes you can put the high wattage resistors in a bucket of water. When I used to repair guitar amps, we would have an array of resistors (that have metal jackets) mounted to a panel, and we just put it in the water and cranked up the volume. It would cost some bucks to put the setup together

Yes you can put the high wattage resistors in a bucket of water. When I used to repair guitar amps, we would have an array of resistors (that have metal jackets) mounted to a panel, and we just put it in the water and cranked up the volume. It would cost some bucks to put the setup together

Safer to keep the resistive elements separate from the coolant. For instance, mount the resistors on the outside of pipes through which cooling water runs. Running water directly over the wires and resistors is just begging for an "electrocuted in the bathtub" moment.