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Hello list!

Found out about this site from Mother jones.

Unfortunately the cars I have available are much too old for some of the tips. Our vehicles are '96 MPV, '94 Lumina, '90 Festiva, '83 Celica, '67 Cortina (Engish Ford). We also have a '59 Anglia (English Ford) that's been sitting in the garage for a decade now-- if you want to know what an Anglia is, watch Harry Potter 2. So, no Scanguage for most of those. Trouble is, it's never seemed economical to us to spend the big bucks it takes to have a newer car. The '96 MPV is our most recent acquisition, and I would really rather have gotten an Odyssey, but the price difference was $3500 for an MPV vs $10K for an Odyssey. Would take too many years to get back the difference in gas. The MPV is our first vehicle to have airbags, woohoo!

I've found the Festiva disappointing on mileage. Even though it is an automatic, such a small car ought to do better than low 30s. That Anglia got 40 mpg, and did 36 mpg at its top speed of 80 mph. Best I ever got from the Cortina was 35 mpg (I drove slower? Good tailwind? Weather was perfect? I don't know), and the worst was 23 mpg when 3 very overweight friends and all their luggage were with me-- figure about 1000 pounds more weight on that trip. Originally, the Cortina had a differential with a 3.9 gear ratio. We scavenged a differential from a 6 cyl Mercury Capri, and now it's 3.22. We also changed the rear tires to a larger diameter, so now when it says you are going 55, you are actually going 71.6. Idea was to save gas of course, by making 4th gear into about what 5th gear is on newer cars, but I found it made the engine a lot quieter, and enabled, well, faster traveling, heh. Mileage didn't really change. Today however, it needs an overhaul.

Welcome!

Too old for improving mileage? Nonsense. If you look at the population of gassavers.org (another good site in the same vein) I would say that 70% of those guys are driving a vehicle that doesn't even have OBD-II with good, sometimes outstanding results. A simple and inexpensive vacuum gauge can be plugged into literally any gas car and provide helpful feedback. Especially if you need to lighten your foot a bit ;) .

Just spend some time reading through the articles and threads, mull over what you see, and ask plenty of questions if you need clarification. (Just about everybody does.) Please start with and master the simplest techniques first, as it's really important to some of this material in small bites. The changes you make can be as simple or complex as you like and it pays to find your own balance.

There's a lot to be learned. Enjoy!

If you drive intellegently with minimal use of brakes and have a good mental model of how the engine consumes fuel under various RPM/load scenarios, you can get good fuel economy out of an older car without any of the fancy gauges. I'm getting Insight-level mileage out of my 92 Honda Civic without using a Scangauge or superMID (although I have done extensive drag reduction modifications to my car).

I agree with both Brick and Basjoos -- some mods may be required to get the most out of some of your vehicles and driving style has a big improvement as well.

What I've found is that modifications are there even if you should have a termporary lapse in driving efficiently -- especially for older vehicles. The Festiva has some great potential due to it's size, but I wouldn't let the automatic let you down. I'm stuck with an auto-magic slushbox myself, and it just requires some extra effort in tricking it into doing what you want it to.

I also have to say that I love the '67 Cortina. There's a driver with one that participates in Rally Racing here, and it's a beautiful machine. As for the Lumina, I assume it either has the 3.4 or 3.1L? Both engines' OHV design allow them to get the most out of low-RPM operation (I had a '95 Beretta with the 3.1L -- good engine, but the rest of the car fell apart).

Weleome to CMPG, and let us know if you have any specific questions!

RH77

bzipitidoo

I learned to drive my first car when I was nine. It was a 1955 Morris Minor. Its retired now but we still drive it from time to time. We also have and have had many Mini cars, like Isetta, Messerschmitt, DAF, Goggomobile, DKW, Vespa, Mini, Lloyd, Bianchiana, Skoda, Zundapp, Subaru, etc, etc. Some of the more modern small car competitors of your Festiva that we have had are a Subaru Justy, Chevy Sprint and a Geo Metro. They were all standard trans and three cylinder and we could get mid to high 50s with all of them. I used to think that I was good at getting high mpg because I could get more then anyone I knew. But now with the help of this sight and others I can do much better then I did before. I wish I knew then what I know now. I bet I could have pulled 60s or 70s out of the little three cylinder cars. There is a fanatic on the Metro sight that has done better then 100 with his. There are plenty of little things you could do to improve your mileage with out becoming a fanatic, but if you do want to take it to the next level, you'll find plenty of help here.....Louis

Thanks for the welcome all. One of those cars Louis mentioned-- Isetta, I think-- that's a 3 wheeler with the door that is the entire front of the car, isn't it? And do tell about this vacuum gauge MPG indicator.

Now for a question about our situation:

Our Festiva is in need of much maintenance. It barely passed inspection last summer, and that only after I tried a quick and dirty fix, and lucked into an inspection station that didn't test for NOx. The quick fix was an application of Slick 50 for high mileage engines. Now, I've read on this site that Slick 50 is "busted"-- it doesn't help economy as claimed. But before we added the stuff, a compression check showed one cylinder was weak. After adding the stuff, the weak cylinder was back to normal. So Slick 50 did work for that, for a while.

We're wondering what to do when it must face inspection again this summer. I don't expect it will pass. Sell it? But I know what selling an old car like that is like-- painful, and you won't get squat. Easier to just junk it. Or fix it up? The car is perfectly drivable as is, for quite a few miles yet, it's that inspection that is going to force the issue sooner than necessary. Can probably get away with driving around with expired stickers for a few months if we must, but sooner or later... So, overhaul the engine and put in a new catalytic converter, and while we're at it, replace the CV joints because they're making the dreaded clicking noise, and also run down a transmission leak. If "fix it" is the way to go, then since we'll be ripping the engine apart, does anyone know whether and where I could get a fuel economizer camshaft, or headers, or any other nice aftermarket stuff that will boost economy? Or have any other tips? Now's the time to find out about that stuff so that if we fix it, we can do everything at once. So far, I have found some engine overhaul kits, ranging in price from $300 to $600, but no aftermarket camshafts. You know how it is-- performance sells way better than economy.

We're facing similar questions with the Cortina. Blowby is getting pretty bad on that car.

Our Lumina has the 3.1L engine. We don't much like the car (inherited it, that's why we have it), but it is in good shape. The Celica is working fine, but I plan to get rid of it the next time it needs major work, and rather regret having spent so much time fixing it up last year. If I'd known about everything I found before I started fixing it... I added Slick 50 to the Celica too, and a rather curious coincidence occurred when I did. The oil gauge went crazy. Went all the way to maximum pressure until the stop gave way, then went on past and ever since, the needle has rested on the bottom of the case. And this happened immediately after adding Slick 50, hmm....

Yes the BMW Isetta has a front door. A few other micro cars have front doors also, like the BMW 600, Iso, Velam, Heinkle and Zundapp. The Zundapp has a door in the back just like the one in the front. Most Isettas are four wheel except for a few British Isettas. The two rear wheels are very close together so a differential is not necesary.

On your Festiva, I would check your valve adjustment. My Sprint carboned up so bad it was holding the valves open. Try a couple cans of induction cleaner over several tanks and see if that cleans it up a bit. You might have to pull the head and do a valve job.

On the Celica, if it is a high mileage car that has been run with mineral oil all its life, it probably has quite a bit of sludge built up inside. Some additives and synthetic oil have a cleaner in them that will loosen the sludge only to have it clog up the small oil passages. You may well have very high pressure in some parts of the engine and very low pressure in others. It might be a good idea to drop the oil pan and clean it out and flush the engine several times with cheep oil. I think your oil gauge is toast and should be replaces right away.

Personally I think I would try to find a nice three cylinder manual Geo Metro. They are great little cars, they get better mileage then the Festiva and are at the point were they have very little monitary value but still have great transportation value.....Louis