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This is a short review of some electric lawn care products that I have purchased. The main reason I went with electric over gas is because there is less maintenance involved with electric products. I also went with electric so I did not have to deal with transporting and storing gas.



Ariens AMP Electric Riding Mower

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/647/amp_mower.jpg

http://www.ampbyariens.com

Purchased from HomeDepot.com
Price $3,299.00
Coupon -$250
Shipping free
Tax $213.43 :mad:
Total cost $3,262.43


* Voltage - 48v 75Ah
* Cutting Path - 34"
* Cutting Heights - 1 1/2" - 4 1/2"
* Ideal Property Size - up to 1 Acre
* Run Time - 75 minutes
* Speed - Forward 5mph, Reverse 2.5mph



Here is a video overview of the Ariens AMP riding mower.
http://stuff.jaygroh.com/videos/ariensampoverview.ogv


Battery SOC, AMP meter
http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/647/operating-system.jpg
Blade Stop/Start, On/Off key


The reason I chose the Ariens AMP mower over the other brands is because of cost and brand name. The only other electric riding mowers I found were the Recharge Mower by a company I never heard of and the Hustler Zeon zero turn mower. The Recharge Mower was cheaper at $2395 but only has a 27 inch cut. The Hustler has a 42 inch cut but they want over $7000 for it. If I had the money I would go with the Hustler but the Ariens Amp won the deal for a good price and a wide cut. Plus I plan on getting a lawnbott robot mower next year to cut 70% of my lawn for me. So the Hustler would be overkill for the use I would get out of it next year and the Recharge Mower would be too small to use this year. I also think the Recharge Mower looks like they took a mobility scooter and slapped a push mower deck on it.

After receiving the mower I looked everything over and it seems to be built very well just like a well built gas mower. The mower came fully charged and I only had to top it off with about 200Wh. The mower is easy to operate. Just turn the key, release the parking brake and the electric motor will start turning. This to me is the one let down of this mower. The mower uses a hydrostatic transmission. This means that like a gas mower the motor is always on even if your not moving. Unless you set the parking brake then the motor will turn off. This means that it wastes energy just like a gas mower if you just sitting there with the parking brake off only not nearly as much. I really would have liked to see the electric motor control the wheels directly or have an electric motor for each rear wheel. This really is not a big deal because if your not moving why do you need it on anyway? You can ask the same question with a gas mower. My point is don't idle your electric mower. :p

Let me tell you this thing has some serious torque. I have not timed it but it feels like you can go from 0-5mph in about a second or less. It will push you back in the seat if you floor it. It also stops on a dime and quickly too. Once you release the pedal from 5mph you better hold on. :D Reverse is slow at 2.5mph and can get to that speed and stop almost instantly. I would say that you can go from 0-5-0 mph in less than 30 feet. How do I know? Because I tried it in my garage with my Prius inside. My garage is 24x36 and only has my Prius and some junk inside next to the walls. I think I scared the Prius a few times with my "testing". :D Mowing the grass should be pretty fun with this mower because its almost like driving a good electric go-kart. I think I would have more fun tearing up the grass than mowing it. I just need to figure out if I can disable the 5mph speed limit on this thing because it feels like it could go much faster. :D

This thing is quiet. How quiet? Well according to my cheap dB meter with the mower on and moving it registered in at about 72dB. With the blades engaged it registered at about 92dB. These readings were recorded inside a steel garage with the doors shut. So this thing is about as loud as a vacuum cleaner or a little louder. You can easily talk to someone with the mower on and moving. You might have to yell a little with the blades on. I know with a gas mower you have to shut them off before you can even hear someone scream from 3 feet away. So that should give you an idea on how loud or quiet this mower is. I think I could get away with cutting my lawn at 3AM with this thing. But I'm not going to.

One thing I don't like is if your mowing and have to back up the blades stop. The only way to enable them is to push the button in to turn off the blades and pull it back out again then the blades start up. I'm hoping I can disable that "feature" in the near future as I can see that getting on my nerves very quickly.

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/647/batteries.jpgYet another thing I don't like is the way you have to get to the charging port. You have to lift the seat then lift the rear hood to gain access to the charging port. I think I will add an external port to it so it makes it easier to charge. I think a port like I have on my Plug-In Prius would work just fine. I just need to find one that's not a 110v port so I don't accidentally fry the batteries.

The charger is nice and small but it does not have the nice handle you see in picture provided. Instead it has one of those flat collapsible handles. Not really a big deal. The charger is a 5A 48v charger that continuously monitors the battery while its plugged in. It will fully charge the batteries in about 12-16 hours. You can buy a quick charger for about $420 that will charge it in about 4-5 hours but it will decrease the life of the batteries. InterActer makes the battery chargers for this mower. The model number for the quick charger is ICS 4820. I found one for $344.50 online but you would have to add your own Anderson connector to it which would be about $12.

The charger will go into hibernation mode after a full charge and check the batteries once a month to top them off if your storing it for winter. One thing I did not see mentioned in the manual is if the charger also desulfates the batteries. From what I understand its best to desulfate lead batteries to make sure they have a longer life. It looks like the charger that comes with the mower does not desulfate or its not mentioned. The standard charger is a special charger made for Ariens and is based off of the consumer grade InterActer charger which desulfation is not mentioned. The quick charger is from InterActer's Industrial Commercial series which desulfation is listed.

When charging be sure you have it in a well ventilated area. The out side of the charger can reach about 110F and the inside can reach over 150F. So try to keep it in a cool place.

The batteries have a 1 year warranty and the second year is prorated. From my experience with SLA batteries with no desulfation I'm expecting them to last about 4-5 years max. After they die or can no longer hold enough charge for my needs I want to replace them with LiFePO4 batteries. With LiFePO4 I will get longer run time, lighter weight, and longer service life. Good SLA batteries should give you about 500 charge discharge cycles before they die. LiFePO4 are rated at 2000+ charge discharge cycles. Since LiFePO4 have not been around long enough to see if that claim holds true I'm hoping that by the time I need new batteries that data will be available. I'm currently replacing SLA that are in my UPS's with LiFePO4 so that should give me first hand experience on how well the LiFePO4 will perform over time.

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/647/battery-charger.jpg

In order to get the best run time the manual says to keep the amp gauge in the green. Which according to the amp gauge is between 0 and 40 amps. The gauge reads all the way up to 80 amps but you don't want to be pulling that many amps for very long. The less amps you pull the longer the batteries will last during a mowing session and the less amps you draw you will get longer service life from the batteries. Since the gauge is to the right and down this might make it hard to monitor the amp reading during mowing. I may later on try to find a way to either bring the gauge up around the steering wheel or buy a digital gauge to put on the steering wheel.

First test drive...

I took the mower around my yard for the first time just to see how well it will tackle the small incline my yard has and also try out the two steep sides of my house. The mower does just fine for 98% of my yard but struggles on the steep sides next to my house.

As you can see in this picture the incline is pretty steep and the mower has a hard time climbing it. Its about a 20 degree incline but I don't have to mow it up hill. In fact I should not mow it up hill since the side discharge for the grass clippings is on the right side of the mower and that would cause grass build up next to the house.
http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/647/steep2.JPG

In this picture you can see the the other side of my house. This incline is about 25-30 degrees and the mower just does not have the power to go up it even with the blades turned off. I circled the steep part and I can mow just fine around it. I could mow down hill and get the rest with the push mower. Since I have disabled the reverse blade cut off I could also just mow it backwards down hill. A little unsafe but it would get the job done. This area would be good to plant some shrubs in that way I would not have to worry about mowing it.
http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/647/steep1.JPG

The rest of my yard is only a slight grade downhill and I wont have any problems mowing it.


First mow.

On my first mow I was only able to cut about .4 acre of my .9 acre lot. Kind of disappointing but I still need to figure out the best way to get the job done using as little energy as possible. Since this mower is not a zero turn it kind of makes it hard to start at the top and work my way down hill.

The mower will not leave you stranded when you run out of power. What it does is disables the blades at around 47v or 11.75v per battery which is about the right voltage you want to stop at. When the blades stop you should have plenty of energy left to make it back to charge the mower.

First mow stats.

Distance Traveled: 1.21 miles
Time: 34 Minutes
Average speed: 2.1 MPH
kWh used: 1.88
Area covered: ~.4 acre

According to my first charge I only used 1.88kWh of electricity. If you do the math four 12v 15Ah batteries in series and five of those packs in parallel there should be about 3.6kWh worth of energy in them. Half of that is 1.8kWh. To get the longest life from lead acid batteries you should only use no more than 50% of the energy that the battery can hold. So it looks like Ariens is limiting the SOC to about 50% but doing so cuts the rated 75 minutes of cutting in half. I know new batteries have a small break in period but if Ariens says you can get up to 75 minutes of cutting time they cant be limiting the SOC to 50% unless they add more batteries.


Second mow.

Distance Traveled: 1.35 miles
Time: 25 Minutes
Average speed: 3.2 MPH
kWh used: 1.64
Area covered: ~.4 acre

I was able to finish my second mow without the blades shutting off but the battery was still drained.


Third mow.

Distance traveled: 1.6 miles
Time: 35 Minutes
Average speed: 2.7 MPH
kWh used: 2.29
Area covered: ~.5 acre

I think I actually traveled faster on this mow than my GPS calculated and I got a little more cut. I'm guessing I got almost half my yard cut. It was definitely a little more than when I cut the first time. I was taking more of an approach to cut down hill most of the time by starting at the top and working my way down. I was trying to cut faster even with the amp draw in the 50's. I think if you can cut on flat ground as long as you don't floor it but keep cutting as fast as you can without bogging down the blades is your best bet to cut as much as you can in one charge. My kill-a-watt meter said I used 2.29kWh to charge this time. Maybe the batteries need a few more charge cycles to get longer run times.


Fourth mow.

Distance traveled: 1.23 miles
Time: 23 Minutes
Average speed: 3.2 MPH
kWh used: 1.75
Area covered: ~.4 acre

This was a quick cut. I'm seeing more energy being put back into the batteries now.


Fifth mow.

Distance traveled: 1.5 miles
Time: 36 Minutes
Average speed: 2.5 MPH
kWh used: 2.04
Area covered: ~.5 acre

Still only getting about 35 minutes on a full charge. Trying to cut from top to bottom seems to help cut a little more but not by much.


Sixth mow.

Distance traveled: 1.6 miles
Time: 20 Minutes
Average speed: 3.3 MPH
kWh used: 1.55
Area covered: ~.5 acre


Overall I'm impressed with the cutting performance but disappointed with the run time. I was expecting to cut at least .75 acre of my .9 acre lawn but I'm only getting about 1/2 of it cut per full battery charge. Ariens claims up to 75 minutes and able to cut up to 1 acre but I don't see how that is even possible even in the best conditions and cutting down hill.

I would only suggest buying this if your lawn is a half acre or less or an acre or less if you don't mind cutting part of your lawn one day and finishing it the next. I would also only suggest this mower only if you have a slight down hill grade or completely flat land. This mower would also be good for anyone that is not able to push mow a small lawn. If you have a small lawn the Recharge Mower might be you better option if you don't want to spend too much money and don't want to push mow.

Since I plan on buying a robot mower to cut about 70% of my lawn next year I can deal with cutting part of my lawn one day and part the next for now. If I was not planning on getting the robot mower I would be looking into getting higher capacity LiFePO4 batteries. I would guess I would need about 4-5kWh worth of batteries and that would put another $2000-$3000 on the price of the mower just to cut about 1 acre.


So how quiet is this mower? Just watch this video and find out.
http://stuff.jaygroh.com/videos/ampquiet.ogv



Update 2010/05/06

The grass is getting getting thicker and the mower is starting to struggle a little and this is even with cutting once a week. I'm still getting about .3 to .4 acres cut per charge.


Speaking of charging I made a graph of the charging process.

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/647/ampcharge.png


This graph is 16.25 hours of charging. I started with the SOC meter flashing empty. So this should represent a full charge.

By the looks of it most of the charge is finished in about 4-5 hours and then the rest of the charge is done in about 7 hours. I'm guessing that the 16 hour charge time is either to top off the batteries or from a more drained state. Which from what I've seen I think maybe only about half of the battery capacity is available for use.

So I could actually get about 75% of my yard cut in one day if I wanted to and I could possible get it all cut in one day if I start early enough. I might have to experiment with this a little to see how well that would work out.

It seems that no matter how long its plugged in it uses about 35 watts after charging. That means it uses 840Wh per day just to be plugged in.



Update 2010/05/26

I was able to get my whole yard cut in one day. I did not start as early as I wanted to but I was able to get it all cut before the sun went down.

I started at about 11:00am. I cut for about 30 minutes then charged it. I let it charge for about 4 hours at which point the SOC resets to full. At about 3:30pm I cut again for 30 minutes then recharged for 4 hours. At 8:00pm I took the mower out and finished the job.

So if you have about an acre to cut you can get it all done in one day with the standard charger if you start cutting early enough.



Update 2010/06/15

I can no longer recommend the Ariens AMP electric riding mower. The more I use it the more I can see that this thing just is not built right. You would figure that a company like Ariens thats been building mowers for quite a while would know how to build one. I'm not talking about the electric part of the mower but the mower as a mower. As an electric mower is OK for their first attempt but as just a mower its just poorly designed for general maintenance.

Problem 1.
To sharpen the blades you must remove the deck. In order to do that you have to remove 6 pins. Thats not hard at all. Since this is an electric mower you must disconnect the wires from the blade motors. This is where poor design comes in. The wire connectors are located in a very hard to reach area in the back/bottom of the mower. These connectors are zip tied in a way that you must clip the zip ties. Since there is no slack you must have long arms and small hands to do the unclipping and pulling. This makes the job of sharpening the blades very difficult because you have to disconnect them then reconnect and use new zip ties to secure the cables.

I had to remove the deck because I bought the mulching kit and needed to install it. The next problem I ran into was that the steel plates that fit in the mower to keep the grass inside did not fit all the way. I had to bend them a little to line up the holes to screw in the bolts.

The next problem I had was that the instructions said the bolts that bolt onto a triangle shape in the center of the deck had to be placed with the nut inside the triangle. This wont work at least with my tools. Since the bolt was a rounded head the only way to tighten its was with the nut. So I had to put the nut on the outside instead of the inside. I don't see this being an issue since it does not look like it will interfere with anything since its outside the cutting chamber.

The next problem I had after installing the mulching kit was that one of the blades was hitting the side of a triangle shape thing in the center of the deck. To fix this I reseated the blade and just for good measures I took a hammer to the triangle thing to try to dent it inward to make more clearance.

In the end I got the mulching kit installed and working.

Problem 2.
One of my battery sub packs outgassed and bloated. I'm currently in the process of getting this replaced under warranty. Now your supposed to be able to replace the batteries as need and it should be very easy to do so. Well apparently they made it so you cant replace the batteries. I'll explain. There is a bracket that secures the batteries in place. This bracket is secured by a rounded head bolt and nut. The rounded side of the bolt is under a plate. Since you cant use a wrench on that side anyway there is no use of making it have a hex head. This is one of those bolts that have a square fitting under the head to fit in a square hole. This makes it so you can tighten the nut with only one wrench. Well some jack hole decided it would be a good idea to press the top of the nut and the top thread of the bolt. Normally you do this on things you want to permanently secured and never removed. Well thats all good if these are some miracle batteries that last forever. Well I need to remove one. I eventually backed the nut off the bolt while having to keep the bolt pushed up on to the square hole in order to keep the bolt from turning. In the end the nut is now rounded and I still cant use the bolt since the top threads are damaged. I'm going to have to go to Lowes to get a replacement. Or better yet I should make Aires replace it.

Only get this mower if you want an electric and don't mind spending some money on making it better. Like LiFePO4 batteries and nuts and bolts that acutally work. I don't know what to do about the cables yet.



Update 2010/07/06

I finally received my replacement batteries. They decided to replace all 5 sub packs just to be sure the other 4 were not damaged. So now I have a brand new battery pack. Lets see if this pack will last the rest of the year.

After receiving the batteries I topped them off which only took about 30 minutes with the quick charger. After they were topped off I decided to cut some grass.

Based on the first cut times I got how much do you think I was able to cut this time? I'll give you a few seconds to look over my cut times above...........DONT LOOK AT THE ANSWER YET............. Would you believe I was able to cut my whole .9 acre lot? YES A WHOLE .9 ACRES!!! I just barely cut it all before the blades stopped. Now I don't know if its the new batteries but when I first got the mower I never came close to getting even 75% of my yard cut on one charge and that was brand new! So now I'm thinking I just had a bad set of batteries to begin with. I'll have to cut for another month or two just to be sure. If I'm still able to cut even 90% of my lawn by the end of the cutting season I may just have to reverse my decision to not recommend this mower.

The mulching kit is working just fine but since the grass is now trapped you have to take the mower just a little slower so it does not bog down. Since my new set of batteries is lasting twice the amount of time I thought they would I wont have any idea if the mulching kit affects cutting time. My guess is that they will reduce it by a little since I do see more of a current draw on the amp gauge.

I installed a volt meter on my mower so I know what voltage is while mowing. This is more helpful than the SOC gauge. More on that below. All I did was tap into one of the sub packs positive and negative lines and hooked them to an old cheap multimeter I was not using. I velcroed the meter to plate where your feet would be. Its placed next to the battery box between the legs. Since the LCD is big and readable in the daylight all I have to do is take a quick look down and see what my voltage is. Since lead batteries have an almost linear voltage for SOC this makes for a really good SOC meter. Under load 50v starting out at full charge and 40v is when the blades stop.

Here is where I put the volt meter.
http://stuff.jaygroh.com/vm.JPG



I also bought the quick charger a few weeks ago. I originally ordered from Home Depot for $419 plus tax. Well after a week of waiting I finally got an email saying it was back ordered. :mad: I decided to cancel the order and get it cheaper from another site.

The quick charger has an amp LED gauge with 80% full mark and ready light.
http://stuff.jaygroh.com/qc.JPG

I found the Interacter ICS 48v 20A charger here for $344.50 http://www.batteryweb.com/interacter-detail.cfm?model=IC%2048/20

After shipping the total was $373.51. Since this was not coming from Ariens this charger will not have the blue 48v Anderson connector needed to connect the charger to the mower. I found a place that sells them cheap. http://www.scrubbercity.com/servlet/the-960/Anderson-Power-Product-connector%2C/Detail

It was $2.96 with 8AWG contacts which is the size you need. After shipping it was $6.86.

Total for the charger $380.37. Thats a total savings of about $68 after you include taxes from Home Depot. If you don't mind crimping the connectors yourself you can save a lot of money by not buying from the Home Depot or Airens.

If you do by this charger from someone other than Ariens then make sure the DIP switch in the charger is set to normal. Normal is default and normally shipped this way unless specified. The DIP switch has two switches. One marked N and the other G. Normal mode is set with the N in the ON position and G in the OFF position. If you need to adjust this a nice thick paper clip can do the switching or some other small object. Just make sure the charger is unplugged before you make any changes. Since my new batteries have a longer runtime than the original set I'm thinking I may have wasted my money on this quick charger. Only time will tell. It does have the benefit of desulfation which can help make the batteries last longer. As far as I know the standard charger does not offer this feature.


The only issue I found with the quick charger is that it may not reset the SOC gauge. Which brings up another issue.


Since mowing with only 4 of the sub packs and charging with the quick charger I found out the SOC gauge is not accurate at all. If any of you know how the Prius SOC gauge works and the gas gauge works well the Ariens AMP SOC gauge works kind of like them. I think its partially based on voltage and time.

What happened when I was running on 4 sub packs is that the cut time was reduced. When you reach 40v the blades will stop. Well since I had reduced cut time I reached 40v sooner than I would have otherwise. When I reached 40v the SOC was only showing half of the energy used. With my new battery pack I was able to cut for about an hour and was able to cut my whole yard on one charge. When I was half way done cutting the SOC was reading empty. So the SOC is based on time. Which means its totally useless. Now the second issue with the SOC gauge is that in order to reset it the voltage must be above something like 57.5v for a length of time. The standard charger will reset the SOC every time but the quick charger will not. The quick charger will not reset the SOC gauge because it has a temperature adjusted charge voltage. During hot days the end of charge voltage is about 55.5v and will not reset the SOC. Interacter or Ariens may modify this slightly to reset the SOC but the only way to find out is to order a quick charger from Ariens. But since the SOC is time based its useless anyway. Plus its impossible to read when the sun is shining on it.


Charge time with the charger is pretty quick.
http://stuff.jaygroh.com/qcct.png


As you can see in this charge graph you can get about an 80% charge in about 90 minutes and a full charge in about 165 minutes. If you was needing to cut as much grass as possible in the shortest amount of time just charge it to 80%. I'm sure you can get some trimming done while you wait 90 minutes.

As you can see I was able to put in about a full 3kWh into the batteries. This is a good sign that I may be able to actually cut my .9 acre with just one charge. The most I was getting with the old pack was around 2kWh. The batteries are rated at around 3.6kWh. So this looks like its much closer to spec than the old batteries.


On a side note when I had all the batteries removed I took some measurements of the battery compartment and I found that I could fit 16 Thundersky LiFePO4 110Ah cells in there. So when it comes time to replace the lead I should not have any issues dropping in 16 LiFePO4 cells. And the best thing is that I can use the chargers that I all ready have with the LiFePO4 battery since it will not over charge them. Also the 40v blade cut off is perfect for LiFePO4 battery. 40V takes them down to 2.5v per cell which it just at the empty state of the cells. I all most cant wait to replace them. :)



Update 2010/07/11


I finished my second cut with the new batteries and things are looking good. :D

Second cut with new batteries

Distance traveled: 2.88 miles
Time: 52 Minutes
Average speed: 3.3 MPH
kWh used: ~2.8kWh
Area covered: .989 acre

And I still had about 43v under load at the end of the cut. Which should be good for another 5-10 minutes of cutting.


So it looks like my old batteries were bad all along. The AMP can cut up to an acre and since you can now purchase an AMP for about $2k I would now recommend it again. I still hate that it has some of the other issues I mentioned above but since a good battery pack can cut up to an acre I think that and the new price out weighs the other small issues.

I'm back to recommending it. At least for now. :) As long as nothing else comes up I will give an end of year review.



Update 2010/07/20

After getting home from Green Drive Expo I had to cut the grass before it started raining and the grass was not cut for a week so its a little thick. I found that using the the mulching kit with thick grass results in clogged blade and or motor over heating. The simple fix is to cut the grass every 5-6 days when the grass is dry and short.

When I was cutting grass I could hear the blades slow down and one even stopped. A few seconds later the other blade stopped. What happened was that some grass got balled up and stopped one of the blades. The only way to clear it was to reach under the deck and move the blade until the clog was cleared.

I think the motor is overheating because when the blades stopped and I checked to see if they were clogged I could not find anything. I let the mower set for about 10-15 minutes and the blades started back up. Since using the mulching kit it does use more amps and while mowing I even seen the needle get into the red zone. This is the reason why I think they overheated.

Nothing else new to report.



Update 2010/08/27

Just a quick update. The new batteries are still letting me cut my whole yard on one charge. I do have to cut about every 5-6 days in order to keep the blades from bogging down from the thick grass. I'm guessing part of the problem is the mulching kit. Since the grass is trapped under the deck the blades will get bogged down pretty quick if the grass is thick. If I was still running without the mulching kit I may be able to cut every 7-8 days but I think the mulching kit is worth it. If you are cutting grass that is bogging down the blades you have to make sure you dont bog them down for very long because the motors will overheat and shut down. If they shut down you have to turn off the mower and let it sit for a while until the motors cool off. Other than that and the occasional clog the mower is doing fine.


Update 2010/10/20
Here is a quick year end review.

Overall the Ariens AMP mower has performed well but as I mentioned there are many thing that can be improved. As long as you don't cut long grass, wet grass, or cut too low the mower works great.

The last time I cut grass was last week and the batteries only let me cut about 90% of my yard. Still not bad since a quick 15-30 minute charge is enough to finish the job. I'll report back next year on how well the batteries held up over winter storage.

I do have a major problem with the mower deck. While cutting the grass some how the front edge of the deck caught a root of a dead tree which is no longer in the yard. I was cutting up hill when this happened. Anyway when the deck got caught it bent in a little and caught the blade. This caused a big gash in the mulching kit part of the steel. I'll be taking the deck off and I will try to fix this issue either over the winter or before mowing season starts next year. Lucky for me this happened on the 2nd to last cut of the season. I was able to get things shifted back to a point where I could cut one more time.

I think that if you can still pick up this mower for $2000 then it would be a pretty good deal even if you have to make a few changes.





Disabling the reverse blade cut off.

This little safety feature might be annoying for you if you do a lot of reversing in your yard. What happens is if you go into reverse the blades stop and wont start again until you press down and pull up on the blade stop/start button. I think this will be very annoying so I have disabled this "feature" on my mower.

Disabling this "feature" is very simple. The switch is normally open and closes when you go into reverse activating the "feature". So all you have to do is disconnect the switch and the blades will stay on while in reverse.

First you need to remove the black cover in the rear of the mower. Just remove the two bolts with a .5 inch ratchet. This will allow to you reach the connector. If you have big hands you may need to get someone with smaller hands or you will have to take a few more things apart.
http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/647/reverse1.JPGhttp://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/647/reverse2.JPG

Now on the right side of the mower between the batteries and the motor controllers ( where the black cover you just removed was ) and below everything you should be able to see the switch. All you have to do is pull it out. You will then see the two pins sticking out.
http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/647/reverse3.JPGhttp://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/647/reverse4.JPG

You will want to put some electrical tape around these pins to keep them from getting dirty. Its a little hard to do but can be done. If you cant wrap up the pins don't worry too much about it. They should be OK if left bare. You will also want to wrap the plug up that you removed with some tape to keep out the dirt. You may also want to secure it to some other wire so you can easily access it and so it does not rattle around.
http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/647/reverse5.JPG

All you have to do now is put the cover back on. Thats it! You can now mow in reverse. :D

After mowing for the first time I can tell you that if I had the reverse blade cut off enabled I would be pulling out my hair. Getting this safety "feature" disabled is a time saver.

Black & Decker 36v Cordless Push Mower

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/647/CM1936_1.jpg

http://www.blackanddecker.com/ProductGuide/Product-Details.aspx?ProductID=21284

Purchased from Amazon.com
Price $399.99
Free shipping

* Voltage - 36V 10Ah swappable battery
* Cutting Path - 19"
* Height Adjustment - 1 Touch
* Weight - 72 lbs
* Cutting Heights - 1 1/2"-3 1/2"
* Ideal Property Size - up to 1/3 Acre
* Mulching Capability - YES
* Charge Time at 60% - 4 hrs
* Charge Time at 100% - 12 hrs


Here is a video overview of the mower.
http://stuff.jaygroh.com/videos/bd1936overview.ogv

The reason I chose this model over the cheaper 18 inch cordless or the cheaper 24v cordless is because of the removable battery. This will make it much easier to get the job done if you need to keep mowing longer than the one battery will last. It will also make it easier to convert it to a LiFePO4 battery which would make this mower lighter and have a longer run time. I also chose the B&D over the other brands because B&D cordless mowers received the most positive reviews.

Assembly of the mower is very simple. Move the handle in the proper position and tighten it down, pop in the battery, pop in the key and your ready to mow. The mower comes with a grass catcher and you can also attach it if you plan on using it. You first have to remove the mulching plug when attaching the grass catcher.

The mower is mostly plastic and looks cheap. It almost looks like a large version of a child's toy mower. I would have liked to see a metal body for the mower deck but then the mower would weigh more. My experience with B&D products seem to be that they do take abuse very well but I don't know how the plastic will hold up in a mower environment.

The handle of the mower is covered with a very nice soft no slip grooved rubber. It feels very nice to grip.

The key for the mower plugs into the mower's charging port on the right hand side of the mower. The key snaps in place just fine but I can see this wearing out over time. The key could fall out since the key is kind of pointed downward a little and facing out. Only time will tell how well this holds up. Since you don't have to charge the battery with the battery in the mower you could always glue the key to the mower and charge the battery at another location.

In order to start the mower the key must be installed first. After you have the key installed you have to push in the safety switch on the right side of the handle bar area near where the key is located. Then you pull back the lever and the mower starts. The lever to start the mower has a very light spring so your fingers should not get tired holding it back while mowing. Once you let go of the lever the blade will completely stop in about 3 seconds or less. There is almost no vibration during use so your hands should not get very tired.

The one touch height adjustment works just as advertised. You can quickly adjust the height if needed.

The noise level is about 82dB according to my cheap dB meter. It's about as loud as a vacuum cleaner. Since most of the sound is directed to the ground it sounds much quieter. It's so quiet you just have to wonder if it has any power to cut grass. I was expecting more of a high speed high pitched whine but what you hear sounds more low pitched. You can almost have a conversation with someone while mowing.

There is not much maintenance that needs to be done. Charge battery, clean the underside of the mower, sharpen/replace blade and that's about it. No oil, oil filter, gas filters, air filters, gaskets, grease, spark plugs, belts, no pull start and NO GAS!

There are three 12v 10Ah SLA batteries connected in series inside the battery box. There is a little bit of room around the edges in this box so an upgrade to LiFePO4 should be pretty easy. The place the battery sits on the mower is pretty large and could hold a much larger LiFePO4 battery and still be able to strap it down. The mower uses a standard Anderson connector for the battery connection so that will make it easy to add a LifePO4 battery in the future.

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/647/CM1936_PA1.jpg

I performed a run time test inside my house and the battery lasted for about 60 minutes at full power. The battery kept on going for another 25 minutes but with much less power. At about 70 minutes you could tell it was losing power. At 75 minutes it was to the point where you should just give up and recharge. This mower does not have a low voltage cut off so in order to keep from killing the battery your best to stop cutting grass as soon as you start to lose cutting power and recharge. Since this test was done indoors under no load the actual run time should be a bit lower. I'm going to take a guess and say that under normal cutting conditions the battery should last for about 45 minutes at full power. I will get a real world number as soon as the grass starts growing. I would like to see someone perform a no load run time test for a gas mower inside their house. :p

A full recharge does take about 12 hours and uses about 410Wh of energy.


First mow.

Since the Ariens AMP mower did not complete my .9 acre lot I decided to see how much mowing I could get done by pushing this mower around. Since I have not pushed a mower in a few years I was only able to do about 25 minutes worth of mowing. In that time I traveled about .8 miles. The mower still had plenty of energy left to do more cutting but I ran completely out of energy and could not walk anymore. I would guess I got about another .3 acre cut in that time. I'm not going to recharge the mower just yet. I want to finish the job on day 2 and see how far I can drain the battery before it just wont cut anymore.

Second mow.

I did some more trimming with this mower. I was cutting for about 25 minutes and still had enough charge to keep cutting. I was able to finish all the places the riding mower could not get so the battery charge for this mower is perfect for the amount of use it will get on my lawn.

I charged the battery after the second mow and was able to put in 270Wh. My guess is that you can do every bit of 1/3 of an acre and maybe a bit more if you don't mind draining the battery a little deeper. Possibly the best thing about using an electric mower is that you just keep the blade on when your actually cutting grass. If you have to move to a new location just stop the blade, move the mower, and start the blade again. If you have to move to multiple new locations that are far apart this will save a lot of energy.

Just like a gas powered mower this mower can get bogged down in thick grass. In thick grass I would say that this mower is just not as powerful as a gas mower but you can still get through it if you take your time.

Overall I'm really impressed with this mower. If I had 1/3 an acre or less this would be the mower I would use to cut it all. I see no reason for anyone that currently uses a gas powered push mower to keep on using a gas mower. If your currently using a gas mower and are looking for a replacement get the Black & Decker 36v mower. I don't think you will be disappointed.


Update 2010/10/20
The Black & Decker push mower in my opinion is all most flawless. It will cut through just about everything including small twigs and branches and it will run for a good 45-60 minutes on a charge. As long as you don't cut very tall grass the mower is perfect. The only thing I would change on the mower is the lead batteries. If the mower had lithium batteries that would make it lighter and have a longer run time. In my opinion that would make it the perfect mower. I highly recommend using this over a gas mower.

Black & Decker 36v Cordless Trimmer

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/647/NST2036_2.jpg

http://www.blackanddecker.com/ProductGuide/Product-Details.aspx?ProductID=17084

Purchased from Amazon.com
Price $169.99
Free shipping


* Line diameter - .080"
* String feed system - bump
* Weight - 11.9 lbs
* Cutting path - 14"
* Voltage - 36v
* Speed - 7500 RPM

This cordless electric claims to be just as powerful as its gas counterpart and that's the main reason I chose it. I also chose it because the price was about the same as a gas trimmer and also about the same price or a little more than the smaller 18v trimmers. Most of the reviews for this trimmer say that it is indeed just as powerful as a gas trimmer but the battery only lasts for about 15-20 minutes. This was fine for me because I don't mind swapping batteries or building a larger battery pack.

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/647/NST2036_F10.jpg

The trimmer comes with 1 Ni-Cad battery, battery charger, a full spool, and a shoulder strap. The shoulder strap connects to metal rings with a plastic triangle. The strap connects to the triangle and the triangle connects to the metal ring. Let me tell you that every strap I had that carried some weight that used these plastic triangles or clips to connect to the device your carrying has always broke off. Simple solution is to just route the strap through the metal rings and bypass the plastic triangles. That way the load is carried by the strap/metal ring and not the plastic triangle. The battery charger can charge 2 batteries at once. All you have to assemble is the guard, the handle and attach the strap.

The handle is adjustable as well as the length of the trimmer. I have put the handle at the pivot point of the trimmer with the battery installed and the trimmer fully extended. This gave the perfect distance and balance for my height. The shoulder strap helps a lot and with this setup makes the trimmer feel almost weightless.

After charging the battery for the first time I wanted to see if the reviews were correct on the run time. Well after about 20 minutes of full throttle the trimmer stopped. I actually got 15 minutes of full power and 5 minutes of weak power. To save battery life I would only run this down to when it start to get weak at about 15 minutes of use. I also tried a low speed run time test and was able to keep the trimmer going for about 27 minutes. This was an indoor test. Try to that with a gas trimmer. :p I will get a real world run time when the grass starts to grow. The low speed setting should be good enough to trim the weeds. You don't need a lot of power just to cut a few small blades of grass or weeds. The lowest setting should be just fine for 99% of what I will be trimming. The battery takes about 12 hours to charge from a completely drained state. So if you can't do your trimming in 15-27 minutes you might want to get another battery. An extra battery will set your back about $100. A full recharge will take about 180Wh of energy.

I measured the noise at ear level with my cheap dB meter. It registered about 83dB at maximum speed. So it's maybe a little louder than a vacuum cleaner. Of course this was tested inside a room and not an Anechoic chamber so the dB reading and noise should be a little lower outside.

The trimmer has great control over the speed of the line. You can go with a low RPM or full blast.

I don't have any tall or thick brush to cut so I really can't put it though its paces. This will mainly be used as an around the house trimmer.

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/647/NST2036_F5.jpgThe battery pack uses 30, Sub C, 1.2v Ni-Cad cells connected in series. Since the batteries are wrapped in black shrink wrap I could not tell the capacity. I estimate them to be around 1.8-2Ah. The back of the charger says it will charge Ni-Cad and NiMH. So this means that you can replace the Ni-Cad cells with higher capacity NiMH cells without issue. The only draw back is that NiMH will only have 500 charge discharge cycles where Ni-Cad have 1000. NiMH is also more expensive. My plan is if I need longer run time I will purchase 5Ah NiMH cells and rebuild the battery. That should give me a run time of about 40-50 minutes or more. As of this writing 30 5Ah NiMH cells with solder tabs will cost about $200. Thats twice the price for a replacement battery but I would get a longer run time without swapping the battery out mid trimming. Depending on how long it's going to take me to do my trimming I may just buy another OEM Ni-Cad if needed.


First trim.

I was able to do all of my main trimming with one charge and no loss of power. I don't have a lot of trimming to do so one battery should be enough for me. I will have to trim the ditch out every once in a while and I would guess that would take about a full charge to complete. As far as cutting goes this trimmer is just as powerful as a gas trimmer and as long as you have a charge it should cut through just about anything. If you want an electric trimmer that has lots of power, and can get your trimming done in about 20 minutes, and you don't want to spend a lot of money this is the trimmer to get.


Update 2010/10/20

The Black & Decker trimmer also performs very well. Its just as powerful as a gas trimmer and can cut just about everything a gas trimmer can. Trim time is the only disappointment. 15-20 of trimming time MAX. Other than that the trimmer is great. I would recommend this trimmer.

Lawnbott 3550 Robot Mower

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/647/image62229.jpg

http://www.lawnbotts.com

This is a robot that will automatically mow your lawn so you can do other things. I'm lazy so I need this. :D


I ordered the Lawnbott LB3550 on 2011/06/26. Should have a review of it in the next month or two depending on weather.

I got a Robo-Mower. It worked very well the first year. The second was very iffy and the third was totally out. Looks like the transmission gears got eaten up and it won't go anymore. Now it just makes grinding noises. It also didn't help that the neighbor’s yard workers kept cutting through the wire.

It also didn't help that the neighbor’s yard workers kept cutting through the wire.

Yeah that's why I plan to bury the cable when I get one.

http://www.blackanddecker.com/ProductImages/PC_Graphics/PHOTOS/BDK/OUTDOOR_PRODUCTS/TOOLS/LARGE/6/MM675_1.jpg
Black and Decker 18" electric Lawnhog mulching mower with flip-over handle #MM675

Purchased for $220 from my local hardware store (special ordered since they didn't stock the flip-over handle model). From what I've seen NO ONE stocks these anymore, so you'll have to order it, which is sad because the flip-over handle is KEY to making a corded mower work for you. The mower has no "front" or "back" proper -- pull the lever and you can swing the handle over to the other end of the mower, allowing you to zigzag back and forth across the lawn without having to turn the mower around at each end. Start at the side of your lawn nearest the outlet and work your way across, flipping the handle at each end. The cord connection is always on the same side of the mower, and you mostly have to avoid moving the cord out of your way as you work.

I've had mine for 4 years now, since I bought my current house. At my first house I had the similar Craftsman flip-handle model (also made by B&D, no longer available), but lived in a condo after that and regrettably sold it.

PLENTY of power for cutting thick grass (in the spring, ours quickly exceeds a foot of dense growth if you don't mow every week). It will bog down if you try to push it too fast through the thick stuff, but I've pretty much learned how fast I can go. I'm sure it's not as powerful as today's gas mowers, but it's considerably MORE powerful than the gas mower I grew up with and with which I learned to cut overgrown lawns in Minnesota. And as with the battery unit described above, the height adjustment is EXTREMELY quick and low effort, and adjusts all the way from golf-fairway height to jungle height.

If I do bog it down I immediately let off the power, bounce the mower up and down to shake out the excess and get right back into it. The first year or two I think I abused the mower pretty severely by NOT cutting the power when it bogged in thick grass a few times, but so far it doesn't seem any worse for the wear. Blades have been sharpened once, about 2 years ago, and are still cutting our spring backyard jungle magnificently.

Fortunately I don't have a huge yard (about 4000sf, too big for a pushreel at least by my definition) and I can reach every corner from my single outdoor outlet with an 80' cord. If you need a battery you need a battery, but if you don't the corded approach is better because it costs half as much, the mower weighs less than a gas one, there is ZERO maintenance (needed or even possible) other than periodic blade sharpening, and the flip handle minimizes any cord management hassles.

The advantage of the non-flip version is that you can either mulch or bag. I like to mow up the leaves in the fall because it shreds them for the compost bin. If it weren't for that, I might have gotten a new push reel. My $5 garage sale one wasn't very sharp or sharpenable! Also, I like to keep the lawn long, and reel mowers aren't very good at that. I can definitely see the advantage of a flip handle, but either way, the cord isn't nearly the problem people think it is.

Good point: the flip handle version doesn't bag. I've never bagged my clippings and don't get that many leaves in my lawn, so not an issue for me.

My dad recently purchased a battery electric mower. It was mostly working fine for him, but he started getting some error where it woudn't start. So he called up the company and they sent him a new motor, and told him to just keep the old one. He said it took him 10 minutes to take out the old motor and put in the new one. Problem solved.

I think he's got this Solaris mower
http://www.amazon.com/Solaris-SP21HB-Cordless-Propelled-Discharge/dp/B00284BC6W/ref=sr_1_30?ie=UTF8&s=home-garden&qid=1272433856&sr=8-30

I have updated my Ariens AMP review with a charge curve graph. The charge curve is very interesting for charge times. See the review for more information.

Just looked on the Home Depot website and the Aries AMP is now selling for $1999 and free shipping. :mad: About 40% OFF!!!!! :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1vZ1xr5/R-100662967/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053

I was able to get my whole yard cut in one day. I did not start as early as I wanted to but I was able to get it all cut before the sun went down.

I started at about 11:00am. I cut for about 30 minutes then charged it. I let it charge for about 4 hours at which point the SOC resets to full. At about 3:30pm I cut again for 30 minutes then recharged for 4 hours. At 8:00pm I took the mower out and finished the job.

So if you have about an acre to cut you can get it all done in one day with the standard charger if you start cutting early enough.

Around 1997 this new homeowner bought:
- 18" plug-in electric Hechinger (former local chain) mower at yard sale, $5
- replacement blade for above, about $10
- replaced cord for above, about $5

Used for about 8 years, then changed landscaping to totally eliminate grass in lieu of planting beds, hardscapes, and ground covers.

Gave away mower on Freecycle, $PRICELESS!

I can no longer recommend the Ariens AMP electric riding mower. The more I use it the more I can see that this thing just is not built right. You would figure that a company like Ariens thats been building mowers for quite a while would know how to build one. I'm not talking about the electric part of the mower but the mower as a mower. As an electric mower is OK for their first attempt but as just a mower its just poorly designed for general maintenance.

Problem 1.
To sharpen the blades you must remove the deck. In order to do that you have to remove 6 pins. Thats not hard at all. Since this is an electric mower you must disconnect the wires from the blade motors. This is where poor design comes in. The wire connectors are located in a very hard to reach area in the back/bottom of the mower. These connectors are zip tied in a way that you must clip the zip ties. Since there is no slack you must have long arms and small hands to do the unclipping and pulling. This makes the job of sharpening the blades very difficult because you have to disconnect them then reconnect and use new zip ties to secure the cables.

I had to remove the deck because I bought the mulching kit and needed to install it. The next problem I ran into was that the steel plates that fit in the mower to keep the grass inside did not fit all the way. I had to bend them a little to line up the holes to screw in the bolts.

The next problem I had was that the instructions said the bolts that bolt onto a triangle shape in the center of the deck had to be placed with the nut inside the triangle. This wont work at least with my tools. Since the bolt was a rounded head the only way to tighten its was with the nut. So I had to put the nut on the outside instead of the inside. I don't see this being an issue since it does not look like it will interfere with anything since its outside the cutting chamber.

The next problem I had after installing the mulching kit was that one of the blades was hitting the side of a triangle shape thing in the center of the deck. To fix this I reseated the blade and just for good measures I took a hammer to the triangle thing to try to dent it inward to make more clearance.

In the end I got the mulching kit installed and working.

Problem 2.
One of my battery sub packs outgassed and bloated. I'm currently in the process of getting this replaced under warranty. Now your supposed to be able to replace the batteries as need and it should be very easy to do so. Well apparently they made it so you cant replace the batteries. I'll explain. There is a bracket that secures the batteries in place. This bracket is secured by a rounded head bolt and nut. The rounded side of the bolt is under a plate. Since you cant use a wrench on that side anyway there is no use of making it have a hex head. This is one of those bolts that have a square fitting under the head to fit in a square hole. This makes it so you can tighten the nut with only one wrench. Well some jack hole decided it would be a good idea to press the top of the nut and the top thread of the bolt. Normally you do this on things you want to permanently secured and never removed. Well thats all good if these are some miracle batteries that last forever. Well I need to remove one. I eventually backed the nut off the bolt while having to keep the bolt pushed up on to the square hole in order to keep the bolt from turning. In the end the nut is now rounded and I still cant use the bolt since the top threads are damaged. I'm going to have to go to Lowes to get a replacement. Or better yet I should make Aires replace it.

Only get this mower if you want an electric and don't mind spending some money on making it better. Like LiFePO4 batteries and nuts and bolts that acutally work. I don't know what to do about the cables yet.

I finally received my replacement batteries. They decided to replace all 5 sub packs just to be sure the other 4 were not damaged. So now I have a brand new battery pack. Lets see if this pack will last the rest of the year.

After receiving the batteries I topped them off which only took about 30 minutes with the quick charger. After they were topped off I decided to cut some grass.

Based on the first cut times I got how much do you think I was able to cut this time? I'll give you a few seconds to look over my cut times above...........DONT LOOK AT THE ANSWER YET............. Would you believe I was able to cut my whole .9 acre lot? YES A WHOLE .9 ACRES!!! I just barely cut it all before the blades stopped. Now I don't know if its the new batteries but when I first got the mower I never came close to getting even 75% of my yard cut on one charge and that was brand new! So now I'm thinking I just had a bad set of batteries to begin with. I'll have to cut for another month or two just to be sure. If I'm still able to cut even 90% of my lawn by the end of the cutting season I may just have to reverse my decision to not recommend this mower.

The mulching kit is working just fine but since the grass is now trapped you have to take the mower just a little slower so it does not bog down. Since my new set of batteries is lasting twice the amount of time I thought they would I wont have any idea if the mulching kit affects cutting time. My guess is that they will reduce it by a little since I do see more of a current draw on the amp gauge.

I installed a volt meter on my mower so I know what voltage is while mowing. This is more helpful than the SOC gauge. More on that below. All I did was tap into one of the sub packs positive and negative lines and hooked them to an old cheap multimeter I was not using. I velcroed the meter to plate where your feet would be. Its placed next to the battery box between the legs. Since the LCD is big and readable in the daylight all I have to do is take a quick look down and see what my voltage is. Since lead batteries have an almost linear voltage for SOC this makes for a really good SOC meter. Under load 50v starting out at full charge and 40v is when the blades stop.

Here is where I put the volt meter.
http://stuff.jaygroh.com/vm.JPG



I also bought the quick charger a few weeks ago. I originally ordered from Home Depot for $419 plus tax. Well after a week of waiting I finally got an email saying it was back ordered. :mad: I decided to cancel the order and get it cheaper from another site.

The quick charger has an amp LED gauge with 80% full mark and ready light.
http://stuff.jaygroh.com/qc.JPG

I found the Interacter ICS 48v 20A charger here for $344.50 http://www.batteryweb.com/interacter-detail.cfm?model=IC%2048/20

After shipping the total was $373.51. Since this was not coming from Ariens this charger will not have the blue 48v Anderson connector needed to connect the charger to the mower. I found a place that sells them cheap. http://www.scrubbercity.com/servlet/the-960/Anderson-Power-Product-connector%2C/Detail

It was $2.96 with 8AWG contacts which is the size you need. After shipping it was $6.86.

Total for the charger $380.37. Thats a total savings of about $68 after you include taxes from Home Depot. If you don't mind crimping the connectors yourself you can save a lot of money by not buying from the Home Depot or Airens.

If you do by this charger from someone other than Ariens then make sure the DIP switch in the charger is set to normal. Normal is default and normally shipped this way unless specified. The DIP switch has two switches. One marked N and the other G. Normal mode is set with the N in the ON position and G in the OFF position. If you need to adjust this a nice thick paper clip can do the switching or some other small object. Just make sure the charger is unplugged before you make any changes. Since my new batteries have a longer runtime than the original set I'm thinking I may have wasted my money on this quick charger. Only time will tell. It does have the benefit of desulfation which can help make the batteries last longer. As far as I know the standard charger does not offer this feature.


The only issue I found with the quick charger is that it may not reset the SOC gauge. Which brings up another issue.


Since mowing with only 4 of the sub packs and charging with the quick charger I found out the SOC gauge is not accurate at all. If any of you know how the Prius SOC gauge works and the gas gauge works well the Ariens AMP SOC gauge works kind of like them. I think its partially based on voltage and time.

What happened when I was running on 4 sub packs is that the cut time was reduced. When you reach 40v the blades will stop. Well since I had reduced cut time I reached 40v sooner than I would have otherwise. When I reached 40v the SOC was only showing half of the energy used. With my new battery pack I was able to cut for about an hour and was able to cut my whole yard on one charge. When I was half way done cutting the SOC was reading empty. So the SOC is based on time. Which means its totally useless. Now the second issue with the SOC gauge is that in order to reset it the voltage must be above something like 57.5v for a length of time. The standard charger will reset the SOC every time but the quick charger will not. The quick charger will not reset the SOC gauge because it has a temperature adjusted charge voltage. During hot days the end of charge voltage is about 55.5v and will not reset the SOC. Interacter or Ariens may modify this slightly to reset the SOC but the only way to find out is to order a quick charger from Ariens. But since the SOC is time based its useless anyway. Plus its impossible to read when the sun is shining on it.


Charge time with the charger is pretty quick.
http://stuff.jaygroh.com/qcct.png


As you can see in this charge graph you can get about an 80% charge in about 90 minutes and a full charge in about 165 minutes. If you was needing to cut as much grass as possible in the shortest amount of time just charge it to 80%. I'm sure you can get some trimming done while you wait 90 minutes.

As you can see I was able to put in about a full 3kWh into the batteries. This is a good sign that I may be able to actually cut my .9 acre with just one charge. The most I was getting with the old pack was around 2kWh. The batteries are rated at around 3.6kWh. So this looks like its much closer to spec than the old batteries.


On a side note when I had all the batteries removed I took some measurements of the battery compartment and I found that I could fit 16 Thundersky LiFePO4 110Ah cells in there. So when it comes time to replace the lead I should not have any issues dropping in 16 LiFePO4 cells. And the best thing is that I can use the chargers that I all ready have with the LiFePO4 battery since it will not over charge them. Also the 40v blade cut off is perfect for LiFePO4 battery. 40V takes them down to 2.5v per cell which it just at the empty state of the cells. I all most cant wait to replace them. :)


I'll continue to keep everyone updated through the rest of the cutting season. I will also update my first post with any new information.

I finished my second cut with the new batteries and things are looking good. :D

Second cut with new batteries

Distance traveled: 2.88 miles
Time: 52 Minutes
Average speed: 3.3 MPH
kWh used: ~2.8kWh
Area covered: .989 acre

And I still had about 43v under load at the end of the cut. Which should be good for another 5-10 minutes of cutting.


So it looks like my old batteries were bad all along. The AMP can cut up to an acre and since you can now purchase an AMP for about $2k I would now recommend it again. I still hate that it has some of the other issues I mentioned above but since a good battery pack can cut up to an acre I think that and the new price out weighs the other small issues.

I'm back to recommending it. At least for now. :) As long as nothing else comes up I will give an end of year review.

After getting home from Green Drive Expo I had to cut the grass before it started raining and the grass was not cut for a week so its a little thick. I found that using the the mulching kit with thick grass results in clogged blade and or motor over heating. The simple fix is to cut the grass every 5-6 days when the grass is dry and short.

When I was cutting grass I could hear the blades slow down and one even stopped. A few seconds later the other blade stopped. What happened was that some grass got balled up and stopped one of the blades. The only way to clear it was to reach under the deck and move the blade until the clog was cleared.

I think the motor is overheating because when the blades stopped and I checked to see if they were clogged I could not find anything. I let the mower set for about 10-15 minutes and the blades started back up. Since using the mulching kit it does use more amps and while mowing I even seen the needle get into the red zone. This is the reason why I think they overheated.

Nothing else new to report.

Just a quick update. The new batteries are still letting me cut my whole yard on one charge. I do have to cut about every 5-6 days in order to keep the blades from bogging down from the thick grass. I'm guessing part of the problem is the mulching kit. Since the grass is trapped under the deck the blades will get bogged down pretty quick if the grass is thick. If I was still running without the mulching kit I may be able to cut every 7-8 days but I think the mulching kit is worth it. If you are cutting grass that is bogging down the blades you have to make sure you dont bog them down for very long because the motors will overheat and shut down. If they shut down you have to turn off the mower and let it sit for a while until the motors cool off. Other than that and the occasional clog the mower is doing fine.

TheForce:

Thanks for the detailed (continuing) review on the Ariens Amp Rider. I've been thinking seriously about getting one and I'm glad to have a review like yours to understand as much as I can about the mower before buying it.

I'm hoping maybe you can explain and/or show the process of replacing the battery with pictures since you already did it.

I must say that the cost of replacing the batteries is probably the biggest disadvantage of this lawnmower. I'm debating whether it would be cheaper to replace them with 3rd party lead acid batteries not provided by Ariens (is this possible?) or lithium ion batteries.

I'm curious about the Thundersky LiFePO4 110Ah cells you mentioned several times. Where would you buy them right now? I've found a website like this one that sells them:

http://alliancerenewableenergy.com/Thunder-Sky-LiFeYPO4-Batteries_c3.htm

I don't see any cells that are 110Ah but I see one that is 100Ah so can I assume you're talking about that one? It also seems a bit expensive to replace the lead acid with these batteries at around $1720. I believe the ariens amp rider lead acid battery pack could be replaced for around $700. If a lead acid pack lasts about 5 years, you would replace the lead acid pack about 2.5 times to equal the price of one LiFePO4 pack. So could the LiFePO4 pack last 12 years? I think the lifetime on that pack is probably around 10 years.

You also mentioned that you thought the ariens amp charger would be compatible with the LiFePO4 batteries. Could you explain how it would be compatible in more detail?

I'm hoping maybe you can explain and/or show the process of replacing the battery with pictures since you already did it.

Replacing the batteries is pretty easy once you get the one bolt off. They are kind of hard to lift since the are heavy. There is not much to show.

I must say that the cost of replacing the batteries is probably the biggest disadvantage of this lawnmower. I'm debating whether it would be cheaper to replace them with 3rd party lead acid batteries not provided by Ariens (is this possible?) or lithium ion batteries.

You can replace them with any battery you want as long as as you get 48v and they can do about 75A continuous discharge.

I'm curious about the Thundersky LiFePO4 110Ah cells you mentioned several times. Where would you buy them right now? I've found a website like this one that sells them:

batteryspace.com is where I found some.

It also seems a bit expensive to replace the lead acid with these batteries at around $1720. I believe the ariens amp rider lead acid battery pack could be replaced for around $700. If a lead acid pack lasts about 5 years, you would replace the lead acid pack about 2.5 times to equal the price of one LiFePO4 pack. So could the LiFePO4 pack last 12 years? I think the lifetime on that pack is probably around 10 years.


Yes LiFePO4 batteries are more expensive but they should last longer. Plus you can get longer run time with lithium batteries if you need it. From experience I dont expect the SLA batteries to last anymore than 2-3 years but only time will tell.

You also mentioned that you thought the ariens amp charger would be compatible with the LiFePO4 batteries. Could you explain how it would be compatible in more detail?

The reason the Ariens charger would be compatible with the LiFePO4 batteries is because of the charge voltage. SLA batteries have a lower voltage than a LiFePO4 pack. You wont get a full charge using a lead acid battery charger on a lithium battery but keeping the lithium battery slightly undercharged should help it last longer.

You can replace them with any battery you want as long as as you get 48v and they can do about 75A continuous discharge.


Do you buy the batteries as a pack or separately and wire them together. If you wire them together yourself, is it safe to assume that 15 of these batteries would suffice?

http://www.batteryspace.com/lifepo4prismaticmodule32v110ah3crate352whceunapproved.aspx

I'm also trying to understand how would I calculate the 75A discharge rate by looking at that battery? Is it constant, max constant or impulse discharge that the 75A continuous discharge applies to?

Also can the LiFePO4 batteries be charged the same way as the lead acid ones (i.e. leaving it plugged in continuously when not in use)? Do the LiFePO4 batteries need any special conditioning that the Ariens Amp charger would not do? Would an advanced battery management system be necessary like the ones listed here?

http://www.batteryspace.com/advancedbmsbatterymanagementsystemfor1-24cellslifepo4pack.aspx

They also mention something about utilizing correct contact metal plates, which are compatible with max discharge rate. What exactly does that mean?

Do you buy the batteries as a pack or separately and wire them together. If you wire them together yourself, is it safe to assume that 15 of these batteries would suffice?

You would have to buy 16 cells.


I'm also trying to understand how would I calculate the 75A discharge rate by looking at that battery? Is it constant, max constant or impulse discharge that the 75A continuous discharge applies to?

I say 75A continuous because that would be 1C rate of the stock batteries for the AMP mower. The mower actually uses about 50A-60A during cutting. You could actually get away with the Thundersky 40Ah batteries since they are rated for 3C discharge but 40Ah cells would leave you with less than half the cutting time of the stock batteries. I was looking at the size of the battery compartment of the mower and the size of the Thundersky batteries and found that the 110Ah cells were about the largest cell that would fit. I'm not 100% sure since I"m not ready to upgrade yet but my estimates say that 16 of the 110Ah cells should fit just fine.


Also can the LiFePO4 batteries be charged the same way as the lead acid ones (i.e. leaving it plugged in continuously when not in use)? Do the LiFePO4 batteries need any special conditioning that the Ariens Amp charger would not do?

They would need balanced but if you use a lead charger all the cells would get undercharged but all the same voltage. From what I understand charging a 48V lithium battery with a lead charger should be fine. I'm actually running a few UPS's with LiFePO4 batteries that were designed for SLA and they all seem to be fine so far.

They also mention something about utilizing correct contact metal plates, which are compatible with max discharge rate. What exactly does that mean?

I think they mean using the copper bars to connect the cells together. You dont want to use 24AGW wire to connect the cells when they would be drawing up to 75A because they would catch fire.

I suggest you do some searching on batteries ( both lead and lithium ) and learn about how to charge and discharge them so you dont go blowing them up or burning down your house. I'm no expert on the batteries so dont read every thing I type as 100% accurate. I'm still learning about batteries myself and I'm just telling you what I understand at the moment.

You would have to buy 16 cells.

Why 16 instead of 15? What would be the advantage of 51v over 48v?


I'm actually running a few UPS's with LiFePO4 batteries that were designed for SLA and they all seem to be fine so far.

Did you post your experience with LiFePO4 batteries in UPS's anywhere? I'd be interested to read about that as well. I assume that was fairly simple to replace.

I think they mean using the copper bars to connect the cells together. You dont want to use 24AGW wire to connect the cells when they would be drawing up to 75A because they would catch fire.

Well for 75A, you would want to use #4 but then wiring that up in series to 16 batteries would be a pita so the copper bar makes sense.

I suggest you do some searching on batteries ( both lead and lithium ) and learn about how to charge and discharge them so you dont go blowing them up or burning down your house. I'm no expert on the batteries so dont read every thing I type as 100% accurate. I'm still learning about batteries myself and I'm just telling you what I understand at the moment.

Any sites you can recommend for DIY wiring for electric vehicles would be great. :)

Why 16 instead of 15? What would be the advantage of 51v over 48v?

Because 48v is the nominal target voltage. With 15 cells the maximum charge voltage would be 54V or 3.6V per cell. The lead charger has a charge voltage of about 57V and that would put the cells at 3.8V per cell. That is dangerously close to the maximum charge voltage. On the opposite end with 15 cells that would be 2.667V per cell wich is close to the maximum discharge voltage.

If you use 16 cells with the lead charger it will put the cells at 3.56V per cell on charging and 2.5 on the discharge. With 16 cells you have better protection on both ends of the charge curve.

The AMP mower will stop the blades at 40V so I'm using that number as the discharge voltage.


Did you post your experience with LiFePO4 batteries in UPS's anywhere? I'd be interested to read about that as well. I assume that was fairly simple to replace.

No because I just bought them a few months ago.


Any sites you can recommend for DIY wiring for electric vehicles would be great. :)

There is a lot of good information about batteries here. http://www.diyelectriccar.com/

Here is a quick year end review.

Overall the Ariens AMP mower has performed well but as I mentioned there are many thing that can be improved. As long as you don't cut long grass, wet grass, or cut too low the mower works great.

The last time I cut grass was last week and the batteries only let me cut about 90% of my yard. Still not bad since a quick 15-30 minute charge is enough to finish the job. I'll report back next year on how well the batteries held up over winter storage.

I do have a major problem with the mower deck. While cutting the grass some how the front edge of the deck caught a root of a dead tree which is no longer in the yard. I was cutting up hill when this happened. Anyway when the deck got caught it bent in a little and caught the blade. This caused a big gash in the mulching kit part of the steel. I'll be taking the deck off and I will try to fix this issue either over the winter or before mowing season starts next year. Lucky for me this happened on the 2nd to last cut of the season. I was able to get things shifted back to a point where I could cut one more time.

I think that if you can still pick up this mower for $2000 then it would be a pretty good deal even if you have to make a few changes.


The Black & Decker push mower in my opinion is all most flawless. It will cut through just about everything including small twigs and branches and it will run for a good 45-60 minutes on a charge. As long as you don't cut very tall grass the mower is perfect. The only thing I would change on the mower is the lead batteries. If the mower had lithium batteries that would make it lighter and have a longer run time. In my opinion that would make it the perfect mower. I highly recommend using this over a gas mower.


The Black & Decker trimmer also performs very well. Its just as powerful as a gas trimmer and can cut just about everything a gas trimmer can. Trim time is the only disappointment. 15-20 of trimming time MAX. Other than that the trimmer is great. I would recommend this trimmer.

Well I have cut grass a few times this year. My Ariens AMP riding mower is back to only cutting about half my yard. Its annoying having to recharge it in the middle of cutting but with the fast charger I only have to wait about an hour to get enough of a charge to finish. I'm going to try to deal with it this year and then next year I hope to be able to buy that Lawnbott robot lawn mower. Then after that is paid off I plan on buying some lithium batteries for the AMP.

Other than the battery issue with the AMP I'm still pretty happy with it. If you plan on getting an AMP plan on also buying some LiFePO4 batteries for it in the next year or two.

I just bought a house and my first purchase was a Sears Craftsman electric push mulching mower. I then added a rechargeable Sears Craftsman string trimmer.

My yard isn't that large and it takes me about 30 minutes to cut and run the trimmer around the edges. I only have to empty the mowers bag once when I'm done. :p

Force, you need to test the capacity of each of the batteries (in wh), one has likely failed again and is dragging down the pack. If you want to get durability out of those batteries you need to limit your discharge to only 50%.. it may mean that you cut half the yard every week. Not a good idea to fast charge them.

Keep a careful eye on the date codes of the batteries when you buy them, you want fresh ones. I would periodically overcharge each battery to max BY ITSELF, that should balance and desulfate them.. dont go too crazy overcharging sealed batteries. You should also periodically physically reconfigure the series/parallel combinations. God I hate lead acid batteries!

How many cycles did you get out of the second pack?

Yeah I think I need to see if one went bad again. The only problem is that I dont have a good way to test a 48v battery besides just sitting on the mower with it turned on and let it drain the battery. Which I may just have to do.

The fast charging is only at 20A for a 75Ah battery pack and its not a full 20A until its done. It slowly brings down the current over time. It should be a CC/CV charger from what I remember but it does not hold that 20A for very long. Maybe an hour or a little less. Even with this fast charging the batteries should still be good and take more cycles.

Charging each 12v battery is a problem. Theres 20 of them total. 4 in series in shrink wrap and 5 of those in parallel.

I think I got about 15-20 cycles out of the new batteries and they were getting me about 90% finished at the end of last year. I had the charger hooked up to the batteries over the winter. It claims to keep them desulfated, topped off and checked once every month. The quick charger even has temperature compensation.

The battery warranty for this year is prorated. I think I will give Ariens a call to see about that and get them replaced. I would like to hold off buying LiFePO4 batteries for at least another year or two. I would like to get that Lawnbott before I get new batteries for the AMP.

I hate lead too.

Oh, I assumed you could reach the leads into each of the 24 batteres.. you can still test each of the 5 parallel blocks by itself without voiding the warranty.

I use a 12V 55W sealed headlamp from an old car I had as a load to test 12V batteries, you can improvise. Just note the time it took to discharge, then recharge that battery BY ITSELF. Alligator clips are wonderful :)

Each 75Ah block should drive a sealed headlight for about 16 hours. The other way to test it to just measure the voltage on each of the series blocks halfway thru your lawn cutting session, the low one will be the dud... it probably has been reverse force charged by the other blocks by now and is ruined.

In any case, you will never get long life out of these batteries if you discharge it nearly 100% everytime you cut the lawn. Even getting close to 100% is dangerous because the remaining parallel blocks will destroy the weak link in the pack, using lead acid batteries in series is a dangerous thing to do without a sophisticated BMS.

I can only access the five 48v packs. The 12v batteries in series are wrapped in heat shrink.

I talked to my local Ariens dealer and they said if I bring them the batteries with in the next week I should be covered under the full warranty. So I'm taking my batteries to them Saturday.

I purchased an Ariens Amp mower through Home Depot in July of 2010. After calling several local Ariens dealers, none of them knowing anything about or selling the Amp, I decided to order it from www.homedepot.com. The price had dropped to $1999 and after asking several questions via their online chat feature, I was offered an additional coupon code for 10% off. This brought the final price of the mower to $1799 and I pulled the trigger.

The mower was shipped out to one of the local Ariens dealers that I had called earlier to enquire about the AMP for assembly and delivery. The first mow with the Amp left several uncut patches of grass. I soon determined that one of the blades was not turning. I checked the electrical connections to the motor and determined that it was plugged in.

The mower was returned to the dealer and following direction from Ariens they replaced the electrical mower to the blade that was not turning. The dealer then informed me that the motor replacement had not solved the inoperable blade issue and that Ariens had sent out a new circuit board for replacement.

At this point, I was strongly considering returning the mower for a refund. The circuit board was replaced by the dealer and this solved the problem. I mowed with the mower a couple of times before my window to return it closed and was thoroughly impressed. It mowed my flat 1/2 acre yard with ease and even had enough battery capacity to cut the front yard at my neighbor's house. I decided to keep the mower and was very happy with it for the remainder of the 2010 mowing season. I kept the mower on the charger as instructed over the winter.

Fast forward to the start of this mowing season. The Amp returned far less mowing time this year. Most of the time I was only able to finish about 2/3rds of my 1/2 acre lot. A couple of weeks ago I mowed with the mower and placed it on the charger in the garage in the afternoon. The next morning, I went out in the garage to go to work, and immediately after opening the door was overwhelmed with a strong sulfur smell. I suspected the batteries on the mower, and as I got closer to it I noticed that the charger was still running; something that had never happened before this late after being plugged in to recharge. I could also hear a boiling liquid sound coming from the batteries and noticed that the battery packs on top were disformed. I immediately removed the mower from the charger and ventilated the garage. I called Ariens technical support and spoke with someone who directed me to one of their Amp experts. The Amp expert was in a meeting and I left a voicemail. My call was returned a day or so later and they advised that I take the mower to the dealer for inspection/repair. I took the mower into the dealer and they have determined that 2 of the 5 battery packs are defective. They are being replaced at no charge under warranty, but one of the packs has not arrived at the dealer yet, so I have not been able to pick up the mower. I guess Ariens' policy now is to only replace the defective batteries and not all 5 packs.

In hindsight, returning the mower would have probably been the right call. I've noticed that the Amp no longer appears on the Home Depot website for sale. There are several things I love about the mower, e.g. it's quietness, the lack of exhaust, the comfort and turning radius; however, the reliability has been less than stellar.

I'll be watching closely to see how the performance is with the defective batteries replaced. Hopefully, there won't be too many more setbacks with this mower, but at this point that is not looking real good.

It's good to hear from another owner even if its some bad news. I think the major problem is with the lead batteries they use. If they are only replacing the defective packs you may end up with more problems since the batteries woud not be matched. They may not be matched in the first place which is causing the batteries to die a quick death. I know lead batteries are crap but they should be lasting for more than a few cycles.

I'm still waiting on my replacements. Last week they told me they were backorderd. Not good news for custmers or for Ariens.

Matching is not much of an issue if you only discharge the batteries to 50%.. how can this company remain in business if they keep replacing batteries?.. as long as the one old 48V module is somewhat close in capacity to the new 48V modules then it should be ok since all the 48V modules are in parallel.. you can parallel lead acid batteries of different capacities, and even charge them that way.. it gets sticky when you series them and discharge them too deeply.

There should be lots of used Ariens lawn mowers on the market, perhaps cheap.

Herm,

for some reason the batteries are going bad after only a few charge/discharge cycles. The pack I had to have replaced wouldn't take a charge and the plastic casing became deformed. The battery also gave off a strange smell and sounded like it was boiling.

The user manual indicates that the batteries will need to be replaced after 200 discharge cycles. Forgive me for not knowing more, but are you indicating that if the batteries are only half discharged and then charged again, that the batteries will last longer? I guess the logic is that the batteries have approximately 200 full discharge cycles. Are you indicating that the batteries would last more than 400 partial charge cycles if they were only discharged halfway?

Thanks.

Are you indicating that the batteries would last more than 400 partial charge cycles if they were only discharged halfway?

In theory yes.

These batteries if I remember correctly are B.B. brand and are for deep cycle. They should give us about 200 deep cycles and about 400 at 50%. I've known Prius plug in conversions with these type of batteries get about 100 cycles or more out of them.

Even if we get 100 cycles out of them that should mean at least 3 or more years of use. But in reality I usually have to replace SLA batteries every 4 years even when only cycled a few times.

While my batteries are out of the mower again I'm gong to do some sizing for some CALB or Winston Battery Co. LiFePO4 cells. I'm hoping I can fit 16 of the 100Ah cells in there some how. If I have to I may end up buying them this year.

Greetings,

From what I've seen NO ONE stocks these anymore, so you'll have to order it, which is sad because the flip-over handle is KEY to making a corded mower work for you. The mower has no "front" or "back" proper -- pull the lever and you can swing the handle over to the other end of the mower, allowing you to zigzag back and forth across the lawn without having to turn the mower around at each end. Start at the side of your lawn nearest the outlet and work your way across, flipping the handle at each end. The cord connection is always on the same side of the mower, and you mostly have to avoid moving the cord out of your way as you work.

This is an interesting feature, that I have not heard of before. I would posit though, that it is possible to use this general pattern of mowing using a standard layout corded electric mower -- by always turning away from the plug. I bought a 20" Earthwise corded 12A mower (virtually identical to the 20" McCullough sold at Home Depot) last year and I have used it this way, and it works very well. The one "tweak" to the pattern is holding the cord in my left hand on the handle when mowing with the left side of the mower closer to the plug.

I love using this electric mower, for many reasons -- but the main advantage is that it uses such a small amount of energy. I plugged it into a Kill-A-Watt and mowed in thick grass for several hours. The mower uses an average of 0.425kWh per hour. The BTU equivalent is 0.0127 gallons of gasoline per hour. This is a tiny amount of energy.

I have found that various corded electric tools are all amazingly low energy consumption (http://ecorenovator.org/forum/lawn-garden/1235-electric-landscaping-machines.html). I will be buying a corded electric snowblower as well (now is a good time, because they are available!) -- I used my neighbor's Toro Powercurve 1800 and I cleared a 90' long driveway of about 11-12" of snow, including the plow pile at the street in less than 30 minutes, and it used a similarly tiny amount of energy (http://ecorenovator.org/forum/lawn-garden/1235-electric-landscaping-machines-2.html#post11507). 0.04kWh in 30 minutes means that in 1 hour it uses about 0.024 gallons of gasoline!

Well I got my batteries today. I topped them off with the 5A slow charger. I then cut my grass. Capacity is back to what it should be.

I did not cut all of my yard. I stopped when the voltage reached 43V under load. I was able to cut about 75% of the yard. The grass was kind of thick and it was starting to bog down the blades. I went back to the garage and hooked up the 20A fast charger for about 45 minutes just to get a little more charge back into it. I was able to finish cutting my yard just fine.

I'm going to take a different discharge/charging plan this time around. I'm going to cut grass until the voltage drops to 44v which is about half the yard. Then I will do a fast charge for about 1 hour. During this time I can do the trimming with my push mower and weed eater. After that I will finish cutting the yard. After I finish cutting the yard I will use the 5A slow charger on until I cut grass again. I figure a quick 20A charge for about an hour should not harm the batteries too much.

Next year I'm hoping to buy the Lawnbott to cut most of the grass so even if these batteries loose half their capacity over the winter again it should not be a problem as I wont have as much grass to cut with it.

I will report back at the end of the mowing season with any data and sooner if something comes up.

I am still waiting on my replacement batteries to be shipped to the dealer. I wonder if it will be a full month before I get my mower back?

Did you call and ask about them or are you just waiting for the call?

I called my dealer when I found out they were in. Dont know how long they were there or if they just got them that Friday and had not called me yet.



Quick update on my cut time.

Today I cut grass again. I was able to cut about 80%-85% of my yard before the voltage dropped to 44v. This is good news so far. Hopefully a few more cycles will help increase the capacity a little. Since I was at 44v with almost a fully cut yard I decided to keep cutting until I got to about 43v-42v. I was able to finish with the under load voltage at about 43v.

I put the mower on the slow charger since I finished cutting my whole yard.

43V under load is 10.75V per battery, 10.5v to 10.2V under load is considered discharged fully.

Actually you want to measue the voltage after the battery has rested for several hours. When you put a large load on a battery the voltage will sag. My voltage bounced back up to about 45v before I put it back on the charger. It may have bounced back higher if I let it sit for a few hours.

I've been in contact with the dealer quite a few times, they've been good about keeping me in the loop. He called Ariens yesterday in regards to the status of the batteries and was waiting for a call back from them.

How did you tap into the leads to run your volt meter? That is something that I would be interested in doing, but I would be concerned about voiding the warranty.

On the mower side of the first battery connector I stripped and shoved in two wires from a molex connector. I taped it down so the wires would no come out. I then stripped the two multimeter leads and connected them to another oppsite gender molex connector. I routed the wires through the gap under the seat where it hindges. I velcroed the multimeter to the foot plate between your legs up next to the battery box. You can see it in me first post.

I would eventually like to find a good daylight readable voltmerer to mount either on the control panel or somewhere on the steering wheel or the column. Another thing I would like is an Ah meter to see how much energy is used.

What about something like this to mount on the steering column for Ah and Volts?

http://www.powerwerx.com/tools-meters/doc-wattson-meter-dc-inline.html

Actually you want to measue the voltage after the battery has rested for several hours. When you put a large load on a battery the voltage will sag. My voltage bounced back up to about 45v before I put it back on the charger. It may have bounced back higher if I let it sit for a few hours.

Based upon my experience with BEV, electric mowers and off-grid power storage
I can only advise that you are taking Pba batteries to a very low SOC and will be getting a short life out of them.

The Ariens mower sounds like it is under powered and over working the pack to get running time claims. It also sounds like it uses a combination of series parallel cell arangement which further complicates charge and discharge. Probably has undersized cells as well.

Your useful pack life is only as good as the weakest cell. When you take that cell down as low as you are doing it is only getting worse every time. During charge and discharge you start overcharging the good cells and further undercharge the weak ones. A vicious death spiral begins for some of the cells.

What a battery reads after a hour or so is not a good indicator of capacity. A quality Pba battery will until the day it has a dead cell recover to well over 12 Volts even at a 80% DOD.

As a good rule of thumb your operating load should never be much below 11 volts per 12 volt unit or 1.75 V per cell, which is 10.5 V absolute per 12V battery. Maintain above 12V under long operating loads for maximum longevity.

It is pretty common for makers of battery powered equipment to advertise a run time based upon a fully discharged battery. The truth is if it is a lead acid battery you should only use 50% of that new capacity or plan on buying a new battery frequently. If the battery is undersized for the load being put on it the capacity is lessened even more and the longevity will be even less. Peukert factor.

Unless you have a good warranty and they are supplying you with replacements or you really don't mind buying replacements my recommendation is to divide your mowing time in half. Do part one day the rest the next day and fully charge between cuttings. Or put in new larger batteries with a minimum twice the present rated AH capacity.

I have a small Neuton battery powered mower and it suffers from the same manufacturer embellished run times. When I bought it I fully expected that using the mower as they claimed would result in a very short battery life. I knowing "abused them" by running to the advertised capacity and as expected 1.5 years and they were "toast". Using the 50% rule since replacing the originals and they are still operating fine at year 3.5 and maintaining useful capacity.


Thanks for operating a clean mower.:flag:

@EVuser, thanks for the info. When I get the mower back, I think I will mow one half of the lawn and then recharge the mower and mow the other half later. I think the 75 minute advertised run-time is most likely at near full discharge.

I'm also using the Black and Decker cordless grass trimmer. It uses 18V NiCd batteries. Would the same philosophy regarding only discharging the batteries to 50% prolong the life of its batteries, or are NiCd batteries different in that regard.

What about something like this to mount on the steering column for Ah and Volts?

http://www.powerwerx.com/tools-meters/doc-wattson-meter-dc-inline.html

Yes I think that would work. You just have to find a spot to put it inline with the batteries. Might be able to replace the stock amp gauge since I'm guessing its a shunt type gauge too. I would prefer a Hall Effect amp gauge that is a clamp type for easy installation and removal if needed. I have not looked for one but I know they would be more expensive but they are sometimes more accurate.




When I first turn on the multimeter under no load and the mower off the voltage is about 53v. When I start cutting grass the voltage sags to about 49v.

I dont think the mower is under powered its just that it has just enough power to get the job done. I do agree with you about Ariens using the whole pack capacity to get a 60 minute runtime.

The blades will stop at 40v. When that happens the voltage jumps to about 42v-43v. When you turn off the mower it will then jump to about 44v-45v. I dont know where it settles under no load as I plug it back in when I'm done mowing.

Given these voltage values in a no load condition there is less than ~10% capacity remaining. Doing some calculations a 50% DOD under load would be around 45v and at around 45v half my yard is cut. Thats of course with new good batteries.

@EVuser, thanks for the info. When I get the mower back, I think I will mow one half of the lawn and then recharge the mower and mow the other half later. I think the 75 minute advertised run-time is most likely at near full discharge.

I'm also using the Black and Decker cordless grass trimmer. It uses 18V NiCd batteries. Would the same philosophy regarding only discharging the batteries to 50% prolong the life of its batteries, or are NiCd batteries different in that regard.

NiCd's are famous for the "memory" problem so you want to use them to a deeper discharge on occassion. They also are famous for self discharging at a very high rate so it is good to use them right off the charger and then not run them to "dead" everytime if you can avoid it.

The real issue with NiCd's (IMO) is that they vary a lot in initial quality. If B&D put in premium matched cells you get a pack that lasts and lasts. If they went with the cheapest mismatched lot they could purchase you get less in the way of a "quality" experience. So it is really one of those YMMV things.

There are a lot of different philosphies on how to store a NiCd and it really depends upon what kind of charger B&D sold with it. Can't promise you anything but I would use the B&D a bit deeper without any concern, say to 70% and then charge. But avoid the dead battery every use as we don't know how matched they are inside that molded unit. One cell might be getting beat up pretty badly.

If I was getting new batteries for the mower I would charge it and then do a short mowing of say no more than 10 minutes and recharge the pack overnight. That will give any cells that are out of balance a chance to get back in balance without any early damage. AGM and flooded lead acid batteries unlike gels don't require a breakin per say but getting the many cells into a reasonable balance is important and one way is with some initial shallow use.

GE and a few other manufacturers use to make some electric garden tractor. I believe most of those used large format 6V wet cells as found in golf carts. They last a long time if used to less than 50%. Unfortunately as any pack ages it loses capacity so last years 50% is this years 48% or less.

In the EV world it still remains mostly about the batteries. I have 5000 miles on the pack in my car and right now I have one of the 13 12V batteries losing some capacity. The vehicle has active balancing so the others are tasked to hold up the pack voltage but that lower capacity battery is now the limiting factor in range and performance. It is getting some special attention in hopes of seeing some capacity improvement.

Lithium will be the replacement of choice when this pack is no longer meeting criteria. Even more than the ability to discharge a bit lower the relatively tight voltage range of the lithium chemistry makes it ideal for a EV.

enjoy the mowing:flag:

Would the same philosophy regarding only discharging the batteries to 50% prolong the life of its batteries, or are NiCd batteries different in that regard.

You can apply this to all batteries. The less you use them the longer they last.

Yes I think that would work. You just have to find a spot to put it inline with the batteries. Might be able to replace the stock amp gauge since I'm guessing its a shunt type gauge too. I would prefer a Hall Effect amp gauge that is a clamp type for easy installation and removal if needed. I have not looked for one but I know they would be more expensive but they are sometimes more accurate.

Something like the Fluke 376 with iFlex, maybe? Would that allow you to measure the Ah, or just the voltage?

Something like the Fluke 376 with iFlex, maybe? Would that allow you to measure the Ah, or just the voltage?

Yes something like that but in a smaller package. That Fluke 376 does not count Ah used just the real time amps. Unless I just missed something. What I would like is the doc wattson meter but with a hall effect sensor.

a lower cost tool to use is this:

up to 60V and 50A continuous, very handy to test batteries.. its what I use to discharge test a lead acid battery.. just dump the battery into any load.

http://www.amazon.com/WU100-B-Watts-Watt-Meter-Blue/dp/B000X4MSVW

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXLMV0&P=FR

It plugs in-line in-between what ever current flow you want to measure.. it will measure amps and also cumulative wh that passed thru..

"Measures eight essential electrical values;
Captures Peak Amps, Peak Watts and Minimum Volts events as short as a fraction of a second

Current: 0-100A Peak, 50A Continuous, .01A Resolution

Charge: 0-65535mAh, 65Ah, 1mAh resolution

Power: 0-6500 Watts, .1W Resolution

Voltage: 4-60V, .01 Resolution (0V min. using auxiliary receiver battery

Energy: 0-6500 Watt Hours, .1Wh resolution

Powered by circuit-no battery to change"

Note this will not work on AC circuits

Since the battery is 48V and has a capacity of 75Ah when new, try not to use more than 37Ah in one session (probably less).. then slowly charge the pack overnight and finish mowing the yard the next day. You really dont want a fast charge.

Its finally stopped raining here and the grass and ground is starting to get dry. The past two times I cut grass I was able to floor it through my whole yard. I was only cutting about 1-2 inches off the grass. Because the grass was dryer and I was cutting a little less than I normally do plus I was cutting faster I was able to cut my whole yard in about 45 minutes. My final under load voltage was about 46.5v.

This set of batteries seem to be better than the last set I got last year. Only time will tell for sure.

Good to hear that this set of batteries is better than last year's for you. I just spoke with the dealer and they gave me the tracking number for my replacement batteries. Looks like they won't be delivered until Tuesday, June 7th.

It took the dealer a couple of days to run tests on the batteries to determine they were bad, but other than that it has been over a full month since Ariens was notified that the batteries needed to be replaced until they are scheduled to be delivered next week.

They are only replacing two of my battery subpacks, so I hope that the other 3 original don't fail soon. My one year full warranty runs out the start of July and since this mower has been sitting at the dealer since the first of May, they may fail shortly after that and I would be screwed if that happened.

I still dont like that they are only replacing the bad subpacks. If your original packs are weak the new packs would kill them pretty quick unless you keep your run time down.

Do you plan on hooking up a volt meter to monitor the voltage while cutting? I would recommend you do that when you get your mower back so you know where your at as far as the health of the battery while under load.

When you get your mower back you may want to cut about half your yard or about 20-30 minutes worth of cutting. Then let the mower rest for an hour. Do not charge it yet. Disconnect all the batteries and check each packs voltage. Note which ones are the new and old and what voltage they are. Do this for about 3-5 charge cycles. Each time cut a little longer. The last time you do this you might want to try to do a full discharge if the previous data looks good. The data you get would be a decent indication of how your batteries will perform with each other.

Of course you dont have to do any of that if you dont want to. I did not do that to my batteries when I got them but I got a complete replacement. I just checked the voltage when I got them and thats it. If I had gotten just the bad batteries replace I would try to do this just to see what the batteries are doing. I think after the next time I cut I will check the voltages just to see what my set of batteries looks like after a discharge.

Looks like the batteries arrived yesterday, and I will be picking up the mower tonight after the dealer charged it overnight.

Could you post a picture of how you hooked the voltmeter up to your battery packs?

Do you think I could hook up the DOC Watson meter using the connections where the factory battery gauge is?

I plan on only mowing the front yard and then recharging the batteries. I'll post updates here later.

I really don't think the DOC Watson meter will handle the amperage the mower is pulling. The mower is pulling about 50-60A continuous according to the amp gauge on the mower and sometimes more. I would look for an amp gauge rated for at least 100A continuous.



I'll explain the best I can.

From the left where the volt meter wires come in they were crimped onto the smaller wires of the molex connector. from the other side of the moles connector those wires were crimped onto two larger gauge wires. The ends of the larger gauge wires were stripped about 1cm, twisted, and folded in half. This gave enough thickness to be able to shove them into the back of the mower side of the battery connector. I then wrapped electrical tape around the wire near the battery connector to keep them from slipping out. Its kind of a hack job but it works.

http://stuff.jaygroh.com/ampvm.JPG

Got the mower back with two new battery packs on Tuesday. I mowed the front lawn only and then put the mower on the charger. Per the Amp gauge on the mower over 50% of battery capacity was left. After an overnight charge, I mowed the back yard and placed the mower on the charger, again with approximately 50% charge remaining. Last night, I quickly mowed over the front yard again, and with over 50% charge remaining, I placed the mower on the charger.

I was working in the garage and washing one of my cars last evening, when I noticed a strong sulfur smell again. I walked over to the mower and there was an immense amount of heat coming off the battery packs. When I hovered my hand over the batteries, it felt very hot. I could also hear the batteries making a boiling sound, which they did the last time they failed. Some of the batteries were starting to warp, as they did before. The charger was still running, but I unplugged it, since something was obviously wrong. Three mows, all taking the batteries to 50% discharge or less, and the batteries are already failing again. I'm not sure if one of the batteries that was replaced has failed, or if it was an original one, but this is very disappointing.

I'll be calling the dealer again today. To recap, this mower has had the electric blade motor, circuit board, and two battery sub-packs replaced in less than a year. Since those replacements, some more battery sub-packs are failing. I would not be surprised that the reason the batteries failed again is because there was a mix of old and new batteries, but who knows how long all new batteries would have lasted anyway?

^^^^
Yikes!

Time to start using a corded mower, maybe? I am very happy with my Earthwise unit. I use up to three 100' 12ga cords, using Velcro straps to hold the plugs together.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41ulaOYbyWL._SS400_.jpg (http://www.amazon.com/Earthwise-50120-20-Inch-Electric-Mulching/dp/B001DZJYIK/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1307723804&sr=8-4)
(click on image for link)

@Neil If only I didn't have this Ariens Amp to deal with. I have a 1/2 acre lot to mow, so the convenience of an electric riding mower got me. It's too bad that while the Ariens Amp is a great mower in theory, it doesn't translate into real-life application. Hindsight is 20/20- a corded mower would have certainly been a LOT cheaper and a LOT more painless...

I'd like a corded mower but even though I have a smaller lot there are no outlets at the front of the house (so I'd have to run a cord out the garage) and a large fence around the back yard with a pool in way too. I might be able to make it work but that's an awful lot of cord to avoid running over.

Sorry to hear your batteries failed again. I was afraid that would happen. If I were you I would try to push your dealer in getting a complete new set if you plan on keeping at this.

I was working in the garage and washing one of my cars last evening, when I noticed a strong sulfur smell again. I walked over to the mower and there was an immense amount of heat coming off the battery packs. When I hovered my hand over the batteries, it felt very hot. I could also hear the batteries making a boiling sound, which they did the last time they failed. Some of the batteries were starting to warp, as they did before. The charger was still running, but I unplugged it, since something was obviously wrong. Three mows, all taking the batteries to 50% discharge or less, and the batteries are already failing again. I'm not sure if one of the batteries that was replaced has failed, or if it was a replacement one, but this is very disappointing.



I didn't go back and search the exact battery size and type but my memory is that they are about 20AH small format VRLA agm 12V units in a series parallel arrangement. No water servicing caps. If you are hearing, smelling and seeing changes in the batteries you either have a bad charger or a really badly balanced pack.

Battery powered electric vehicles are reliable and very capable but it has to be done right. It is so all about the batteries. Your mower may have some design weakness but mixing new and old batteries is a receipe for customer complaints.

Hope Arien's dealer comes through with a happy ending.

Which imo would be all new batteries and checking that charger.

At least you didn't have a fire (seriously important). And they didn't wait until July to take a dump.

48V 75 AH battery system comprised of (5) 48V 15 AH sub packs.

Went to the Ariens spec page for the above.

Doesn't help you much but it would likely be a really nice mower if they would have used 4 group 24 or 27 deep cycle agms. that would only be 24 total cells trying to stay in balance.

They have 24 cells in each sub pack and 5 subs for a total of 120 cells. I'm not even sure they saved any weight.

Hope the dealer is on your side.

Found this on the net which looks to be a electric built for real work
http://www.electrictractor.com/

The charger could also be bad.. if you still can measure the full voltage when the batteries are cooking.

You can parallel lead-acid batteries in different states of wear, age and charge, its ok to mix new and old batteries as long as they are configured in parallel... but never in series.

Did the dealer ever test the charger?

Thanks for the info, folks. The dealer told me that they checked the charger per Ariens instructions last time the batteries warped/failed. When I dropped the mower off yesterday, they told me that they would check the charger again to make sure that it wasn't overcharging.

Given the mower was used until the batteries were at approximately 50% charge (determined by the amp gauge on the mower), and that the charger was only connected for a couple of hours, I tend to think that it's bad batteries rather than a bad charger. A full charge takes approximately 16 hours.

The funny thing is, that whenever the dealer talks to Ariens about this, they say "this is the first time we've had this happen." Riiiiiiight.

Also, how likely is it that this situation with the batteries cooking could cause a fire? After this has happened twice now, I am seriously nervous about keeping the mower on the charger overnight in the garage.

I have been reminded in a private message to be careful what I recommend.

It is true that you can parallel mix lead acid batteries at different states of wear.. but the total pack ampacity will be reduced, the newest pack will work the hardest, the weakest pack will contribute the least, but they will all track in voltage since they are strapped in parallel.. in any case I suspect the charger is overcharging and boiling some/all of the 48V subpacks, and probably also stressing the other newer packs. If the dealer did a full capacity check on each of the 25Ah subpacks and each one passed then they are ok.. if they did that. A full capacity check is time consuming since you have to discharge each 48V 25Ah pack by itself, and then recharge it...

So it would be a good idea to find out how the packs are tested, the exact procedure. Perhaps it was not done properly.

If it had been my money I would have demanded new batteries all around..

I've mowed a 2+ acre lawn many times, and I use three 100' 12ga cords. The mower has ball bearing wheels, so it is easy to push -- I often use just one hand.

If you always start nearest the plug, then you never cross over the cord. If you have to, just release the switch.

The mower uses an average of 0.425kWh per hour. The BTU equivalent is 0.0127 gallons of gasoline per hour. Has anybody using a battery powered unit measured the charge consumption?

Also, how likely is it that this situation with the batteries cooking could cause a fire? After this has happened twice now, I am seriously nervous about keeping the mower on the charger overnight in the garage.

Fire hazard? Not likely from what I have seen. Maybe an explosion hazard if there is an open flame or spark near by since the batteries will vent hydrogen.

Still unlikely to do anything besides be a pain in the ass to remove from a rack mount UPS in a critical area.
These batteries were fused together in the middle and vented themselves dry.
God I hate lead. :mad:

http://stuff.jaygroh.com/batt/batt01.jpg
http://stuff.jaygroh.com/batt/batt02.jpg
http://stuff.jaygroh.com/batt/batt03.jpg
http://stuff.jaygroh.com/batt/batt04.jpg

Fire hazard? Not likely from what I have seen. Maybe an explosion hazard if there is an open flame or spark near by since the batteries will vent hydrogen.

Still unlikely to do anything besides be a pain in the ass to remove from a rack mount UPS in a critical area.
These batteries were fused together in the middle and vented themselves dry.
God I hate lead. :mad:



Are those out of a Ariens? Cause determined to be?

Looks like over charging to me. Had a regulator failure in a reputable solar controller puff up and blow the valves on some grp 27 AGMs in a RV with a 20 watt panel in a very poor solar conditions. VRLA batteries aren't very forgiving. SH

Lead has many falults.:( But it is actually a pretty good choice for a tractor if done right. Weight is usually a plus in a slow traction vehicle so lead works well for that and the price is tolerable. A lot of avalability and many standardized form factors in varying design flavors makes maintenance and manufacture cheaper and relatively DIY.

Try replacing a set of OEM installed NiLar NiMh's in a reasonable amount of time and cheaply. :)

Hope the Ariens dealer gets the tractor working. If they really haven't had any other reports of this then perhaps they should take this one back to play with and replace it with another one. It might also mean some one at the dealership isn't doing something correctly.

I'm with Herm and would want a new charger to go with the new pack (or new tractor). Our votes probably aren't going to get you much at the dealer.

Are those out of a Ariens? Cause determined to be?


These were from a rack mount UPS. Failure most likely sulfation which caused one or more cells to short which in turn caused over charging. APC pop riveted the case together making it damn near impossible to remove bloated batteries. Had to bend the case a lot and was able to wedge the batteries out. UPS still works fine.

These were from a rack mount UPS. Failure most likely sulfation which caused one or more cells to short which in turn caused over charging. APC pop riveted the case together making it damn near impossible to remove bloated batteries. Had to bend the case a lot and was able to wedge the batteries out. UPS still works fine.

Force,
I don't think some rack mounted batteries can be removed easily with normal age related expansion towards the end of their service life. Have experience with the huge Deka Unigy II and I think are very tightly in the steel shell when new.

While we are waiting for the mower update how's your Hymotion conversion doing?:D

Has anybody using a battery powered lawn mower measured the power used to recharge? I would like to compare this to corded mower consumption. I measured mine with a Kill-A-Watt meter.

IIRC lead acid lose about 20% when recharged (turns to heat in the electrolyte), I doubt your corded charger would be anywhere near that, unless you have really nasty extension cords.

Well I decided to go ahead and buy the Lawnbott LB3550 today. Should have a review of it in the next month or two depending on weather. :woot::Banane42:

http://stuff.jaygroh.com/lawnbott/lb01.jpg

http://stuff.jaygroh.com/lawnbott/lb02.jpg

http://stuff.jaygroh.com/lawnbott/lb03.jpg

I'm on schedule to start bot testing tomorrow. :D I'll try to get a few pics and a short video posted.

I have about 50 more feet of wire to bury then I get to test it out. I will first be doing a parameter test with the blade turned off and quick returns off. Once it completes that test I will turn on quick returns and see how it responds. Once the parameter check is complete I will finish burying the rest of the wire I did not bury due to areas I think the bot may have trouble with. Like around the corner of the house my AMP has issues with when going up hill.

Once all of the wire is buried I will do a final parameter test then its on to mowing the yard by its self. I hope to have it mow the lawn by its self with out me watching it by Sunday.

Dont expect a full review until sometime in early August.

Here is a teaser video from my security camera. :)

I still have to bury some wire and change some settings on the bot. I'll be doing that Saturday.

http://stuff.jaygroh.com/lawnbott/110708.ogv
http://stuff.jaygroh.com/lawnbott/110708.ogv

While I'm sitting on my arse and sipping OJ, this beauty is running right now powered by its IPA system (Integrated Propulsion Assist: 10 year old biped).

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/500/medium/2011-05-30_19-19-55_74.jpg

Bought it three trouble free years ago. the mower was $120 and the 100ft 12g cord nearly $50...made me chuckle at the time.

I'm selling my quick charger for the Ariens AMP since I no longer need it. You can find it on ebay.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Ariens-AMP-48v-charger-Interacter-IC48-20-48-volt-20A-/250867464294?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a68ddb866

how's the bot? Maybe I don't want to know, I'm looking at long, thick grass with no 10 year old biped around :eyebrow: .

The robot is working great! Had some issues with it but I think I have worked them all out. I still need to get some pictures and video footage of it and when I get that I will post a review. I also need to finish laying wire for the front yard but I don't know when I will get that done. Its been too hot out lately to lay any wire.

I just got my RoboMower back from the repair shop. I have not opened it yet as the grass does not grow too well in 100+ heat. The repair shop shipped it back to my old house, not the new one.

My old house had a front and back yard. I used the same wire around both. I just circled the back, then put the wires together, ran them to the front and circled it. It worked so the same power switch would work both areas.

What caused the RoboMower to fail?

I finished laying wire for my front/side yard a few days ago. So far it seems to do well in the new area. It did get stuck on a bump but all is well after flatting it out.

Here is a short video. 720p :D Sorry for those still on dial up. Its about 25MB for a 30 second clip.

http://stuff.jaygroh.com/lawnbott/test.ogv

http://stuff.jaygroh.com/lawnbott/test.ogv

Cool! It sounds hungry.:D

What caused the RoboMower to fail?

I believe the failure was caused by large tree roots that the mower would run up and get centerlined on. Plus a section of sidewalk that the wheels would not quite get over. Running with the wheels kind of skipping on the ground I think put lots of stress on the drive and wore the tires down to the rims. It could have also been ants in the transmission. The repair place said they replaced the tires and drive harness (transmission and drive components). they have also said the battery (sealed lead acid) does not last for more than a few years unless it is well taken care of including topoff charging during the winter.

I hope to get it set up here as soon as it gets below 100F for a few days in a row.