Thunderhacker
03-27-2010, 04:31 PM
First of all, this is a tl;dr post, so scroll to "Final thoughts" if you don't want to read all of it.
Before I start, a quick listing of some relevant information:
Vehicle:
1997 Nissan Altima 5-speed
2.4L straight 4
EPA New: 21/28, 24 combined, Old: 24/30, 26 combined
My main commute is 6 trips a week to and from a local tech school about 6 miles away with a roughly 50/50 mix of city/highway by distance. Most other trips end up being mostly city driving with a small amount of interstate driving here and there.
Before using SGII:
I was getting 24-25 MPG on my trips to school and 28-29 on a previous job in a city about 15 miles away by way of the interstate. These numbers increased a bit in early summer (no AC) and dropped a bit in late summer (using AC.) My previous record was 34 MPG on a roughly 330 mile trip to the north end of the state that was mostly highway driving. I usually got 31-33 on those trips otherwise. I didn't employ any hypermiling techniques but always give myself a decent following distance which leads to less use of the brakes. I usually shifted around 2500 RPMs and accelerated at a rate that maintained 5 in. Hg manifold vacuum. (I "installed" a vacuum gauge on my dash for some diagnostic tests a while back and decided to make it semi-permanent rather than remove it. I'd highly recommend anyone trying to improve fuel mileage do that, I'll explain below.) I usually wouldn't upshift unless I was over 2000 RPM.
First impressions:
The SGII was on my list of devices I was contemplating picking up for computer code reading and diagnostic purposes. I was weighing the pros/cons of various devices all the way from basic code readers up to advanced data loggers. In the end I settled on the SGII due to the cost and the fact it is designed to be mounted as an additional gauge on the dash and used day to day. I'm still kicking around the idea of getting an OBDII to USB cable so I can use my laptop as a data logger for diagnostics. (If anyone thinks those things aren't worth the roughly $75 they cost feel free to let me know as this purchase isn't planned for a number of months.)
The SGII doesn't have the update speed I was hoping for. Even on the fastest setting it only updates roughly once a second. After using it for a while I've come to realize this speed is fine for hypermiling use but I believe it would be a bit slow, although not completely useless, for advanced diagnostic use. This is where a good vacuum gauge comes in handy for maintaining a steady load during acceleration as the load readout lags a bit in higher gears and is 100% useless in lower gears whereas the vacuum gauge gives instant feedback on what throttle position to use. (From my use I've determined that on my car at least a particular load number in a particular gear matches a particular vacuum readout over any range of engine RPM. 75% load on my car is roughly 5 in. Hg vacuum in 5th gear, 6 in. in 4th, and 7 in. in 3rd. I don't worry about 1st and 2nd as I try to get out of them as quickly as safely possible.)
The first test:
My first test was the aforementioned long distance trip to the north end of the state. I didn't have the SGII calibrated yet so during the trip I just attempted to get the avg readout as high as possible. I used this display configuration:
AVG LOD
MPG LP
I employed the DWL and NICE-on techniques on hills (I can't do NICE-off due to a faulty idle air control valve, see end of post for explanation) and raised my tire inflation to 35PSI front 39PSI back. (I don't recommend you do this if your roads are in need of repair. You WILL feel every slightest imperfection in the road especially if your suspension is tighter. I have since dropped the back tires back down to match the front.) When there was traffic behind me I used a modified DWL where I set the cruise control at the speed limit and added throttle during downhills to keep the manifold vacuum below 20 in. Hg and thus avoiding engine braking. (My engine has rather high compression (KA24DE if anyone wants to look it up) and has quite a bit of braking power even in higher gears, so in my opinion allowing the cruise to close the throttle completely was wasteful of energy in much the same way as using the brakes is.) I did this to be at least a little considerate of those behind me and allowed them plenty of opportunities to pass.
The trip normally took me between 5.5 and 6 hours on my usual Interstate and highway route. I took a different route that was a bit shorter and seemed to lead me through every little small town in the state. It took about 7.5 hours this time, but I blew away my old mileage record and got 37.2 MPG. (I probably could have gotten it higher if I could pulse and glide on a roughly 30 mile section of road that is next to a railroad grade. 10 miles of it is almost salt-flats in grade. 100 feet elevation difference from one end to the other according to my GPS.)
During this trip I noticed my average would increase considerably going through towns and only increase slightly or hold steady on the highway. (It seems DWL targets city mileage and only helps highway in very hilly areas.) I found that optimum steady speed is around 42 MPH in my car, getting low to mid 40's MPG readouts.
On my trip south it took me about 8 hours and I got 37.3 MPG. I would have taken less time and gotten better fuel mileage but I was stupid and followed my GPS (please put down the cluebat...) down a wet gravel road. (It felt more like I was in a boat than a car...) I also had to reroute around an accident (and resulting interstate parking lot) which added some distance to the trip.
Day to day use:
Using DWL and NICE-on and changing my shift pattern to be more in line with what's in the owner's manual for the car instead of the factory service manual (the factory service manual says shift at 2500 RPM but the owner's manual puts the shift points around 2000) has raised my average mileage to the low to mid 30's for my daily commute to school and other various driving. I'm currently at about 34 MPG estimated for this tank and near the 1/4 mark where I usually fill.
Other things of note:
I've noticed a few quirks with the SGII. If it's set to gas for fuel type and I attempt a NICE-off the gauge will shut down even though the vehicle is in motion. Changing fuel type to hybrid seems to fix this. At idle it will tend to switch to injectors off (9999MPG readout 0.00GPH) even though that clearly isn't the case. Giving it just a little bit of throttle switches it back to normal operation. (It does report open loop when it does that, so perhaps I've got an O2 sensor that is approaching the end of its life.)
The speed readout seems to be within 1 MPH of my GPS without calibration. It seems to fluctuate from matching exactly to being 1 MPH above. The tank distance currently lags my trip odometer by amount 10 miles on a roughly 300 mile tank. (I'll update this with the exact discrepancy when I fill the tank.) I can't comment on tank mileage accuracy as I don't think I've done enough calibration fills yet.
When scanning the computer, it will sometimes give me a code of P0325 (knock sensor) then lose it on a re-scan (without clearing the codes.) Sometimes the code will "stick" and still be there even after clearing the codes. The check engine light is never lit during this. I'll probably check the sensor this summer some time. I haven't yet sabotaged the engine to try to get a code out of it (I believe it'll throw a code if I disconnect the TPS before a cold start.)
Final thoughts:
After a couple of weeks of using it I've found that I use the vacuum gauge more for an instant MPG readout than the SGII. I expect that as I tune my driving style more and better refine my hypermiling techniques it will become less useful for fuel mileage purposes. I will not be selling it, however. The other features that it has will more than make up for the loss in usefulness for hypermiling! I don't think I can stress enough how valuable a vacuum gauge on the dash board is for fuel economy. If you do buy a gauge don't get one of those tiny dashboard mount gauges. Get a decently large diagnostic use gauge and find someplace to mound it with a bit of velcro tape. I don't think I'd be 40% over EPA combined without mine. (I'll post some pics of my dash later in another thread on a more appropriate board, perhaps the introductions board...)
A few offtopic questions:
1. Would it do anything for fuel efficiency to buy high octane no-ethanol gas and advance the timing a bit? Right now it's set dead-on at 20* BTDC as given as spec in the factory service manual and Haynes book. Another question is would it be worth it? 4% gain, for example, woudln't be as even though I'd be burning less gas I'd be paying more for it per mile.
2. What effects does replacing the catalytic converter with a resonator pipe have on the system as a whole? (Apart from emissions that is.) I ask because this was done a month or so back due to a "misidentification" of the converter as a resonator pipe (I haven't yet decided if it was deliberate or not) by a small shop. The converter developed a leak right at the back where the pipe joins it so it had to be replaced. The rear O2 sensor on my car is oddly just in front of the cat instead of behind it so this hasn't caused the check engine light to come on. I haven't corrected the problem as there's no emissions testing in my state and I haven't noticed any issues die to it.
Notes:
Normally with a stick shift NICE-off would be a piece of cake, but the fault with mine causes it to refuse to idle after doing a clutch start. It runs fine afterward, but the moment I push the clutch in the engine will die unless I feather the gas. It starts to idle normally again after about 30 seconds of this. I'd fix the problem but I'd have to either pull the engine (lots of work) or take off the top half of the intake manifold (and the injectors, fuel rail, a bunch of vacuum lines for the EGR valve, and a bunch of other little things that seem to be in the way) to get to the part.
Now that I think about it, I probably should have used this as a sort of automatic FAS on that flat section of highway that killed my time. I don't do it normally as it's hazardous to have it happening in traffic.
If you decide to install a vacuum gauge remember to find the manifold vacuum and not ported vacuum. The line to the brake booster is always a safe bet. Keep in mind that you may need to buy some brass fittings to make yourself an adapter T junction to connect your gauge hose to whatever line you tap.
Before I start, a quick listing of some relevant information:
Vehicle:
1997 Nissan Altima 5-speed
2.4L straight 4
EPA New: 21/28, 24 combined, Old: 24/30, 26 combined
My main commute is 6 trips a week to and from a local tech school about 6 miles away with a roughly 50/50 mix of city/highway by distance. Most other trips end up being mostly city driving with a small amount of interstate driving here and there.
Before using SGII:
I was getting 24-25 MPG on my trips to school and 28-29 on a previous job in a city about 15 miles away by way of the interstate. These numbers increased a bit in early summer (no AC) and dropped a bit in late summer (using AC.) My previous record was 34 MPG on a roughly 330 mile trip to the north end of the state that was mostly highway driving. I usually got 31-33 on those trips otherwise. I didn't employ any hypermiling techniques but always give myself a decent following distance which leads to less use of the brakes. I usually shifted around 2500 RPMs and accelerated at a rate that maintained 5 in. Hg manifold vacuum. (I "installed" a vacuum gauge on my dash for some diagnostic tests a while back and decided to make it semi-permanent rather than remove it. I'd highly recommend anyone trying to improve fuel mileage do that, I'll explain below.) I usually wouldn't upshift unless I was over 2000 RPM.
First impressions:
The SGII was on my list of devices I was contemplating picking up for computer code reading and diagnostic purposes. I was weighing the pros/cons of various devices all the way from basic code readers up to advanced data loggers. In the end I settled on the SGII due to the cost and the fact it is designed to be mounted as an additional gauge on the dash and used day to day. I'm still kicking around the idea of getting an OBDII to USB cable so I can use my laptop as a data logger for diagnostics. (If anyone thinks those things aren't worth the roughly $75 they cost feel free to let me know as this purchase isn't planned for a number of months.)
The SGII doesn't have the update speed I was hoping for. Even on the fastest setting it only updates roughly once a second. After using it for a while I've come to realize this speed is fine for hypermiling use but I believe it would be a bit slow, although not completely useless, for advanced diagnostic use. This is where a good vacuum gauge comes in handy for maintaining a steady load during acceleration as the load readout lags a bit in higher gears and is 100% useless in lower gears whereas the vacuum gauge gives instant feedback on what throttle position to use. (From my use I've determined that on my car at least a particular load number in a particular gear matches a particular vacuum readout over any range of engine RPM. 75% load on my car is roughly 5 in. Hg vacuum in 5th gear, 6 in. in 4th, and 7 in. in 3rd. I don't worry about 1st and 2nd as I try to get out of them as quickly as safely possible.)
The first test:
My first test was the aforementioned long distance trip to the north end of the state. I didn't have the SGII calibrated yet so during the trip I just attempted to get the avg readout as high as possible. I used this display configuration:
AVG LOD
MPG LP
I employed the DWL and NICE-on techniques on hills (I can't do NICE-off due to a faulty idle air control valve, see end of post for explanation) and raised my tire inflation to 35PSI front 39PSI back. (I don't recommend you do this if your roads are in need of repair. You WILL feel every slightest imperfection in the road especially if your suspension is tighter. I have since dropped the back tires back down to match the front.) When there was traffic behind me I used a modified DWL where I set the cruise control at the speed limit and added throttle during downhills to keep the manifold vacuum below 20 in. Hg and thus avoiding engine braking. (My engine has rather high compression (KA24DE if anyone wants to look it up) and has quite a bit of braking power even in higher gears, so in my opinion allowing the cruise to close the throttle completely was wasteful of energy in much the same way as using the brakes is.) I did this to be at least a little considerate of those behind me and allowed them plenty of opportunities to pass.
The trip normally took me between 5.5 and 6 hours on my usual Interstate and highway route. I took a different route that was a bit shorter and seemed to lead me through every little small town in the state. It took about 7.5 hours this time, but I blew away my old mileage record and got 37.2 MPG. (I probably could have gotten it higher if I could pulse and glide on a roughly 30 mile section of road that is next to a railroad grade. 10 miles of it is almost salt-flats in grade. 100 feet elevation difference from one end to the other according to my GPS.)
During this trip I noticed my average would increase considerably going through towns and only increase slightly or hold steady on the highway. (It seems DWL targets city mileage and only helps highway in very hilly areas.) I found that optimum steady speed is around 42 MPH in my car, getting low to mid 40's MPG readouts.
On my trip south it took me about 8 hours and I got 37.3 MPG. I would have taken less time and gotten better fuel mileage but I was stupid and followed my GPS (please put down the cluebat...) down a wet gravel road. (It felt more like I was in a boat than a car...) I also had to reroute around an accident (and resulting interstate parking lot) which added some distance to the trip.
Day to day use:
Using DWL and NICE-on and changing my shift pattern to be more in line with what's in the owner's manual for the car instead of the factory service manual (the factory service manual says shift at 2500 RPM but the owner's manual puts the shift points around 2000) has raised my average mileage to the low to mid 30's for my daily commute to school and other various driving. I'm currently at about 34 MPG estimated for this tank and near the 1/4 mark where I usually fill.
Other things of note:
I've noticed a few quirks with the SGII. If it's set to gas for fuel type and I attempt a NICE-off the gauge will shut down even though the vehicle is in motion. Changing fuel type to hybrid seems to fix this. At idle it will tend to switch to injectors off (9999MPG readout 0.00GPH) even though that clearly isn't the case. Giving it just a little bit of throttle switches it back to normal operation. (It does report open loop when it does that, so perhaps I've got an O2 sensor that is approaching the end of its life.)
The speed readout seems to be within 1 MPH of my GPS without calibration. It seems to fluctuate from matching exactly to being 1 MPH above. The tank distance currently lags my trip odometer by amount 10 miles on a roughly 300 mile tank. (I'll update this with the exact discrepancy when I fill the tank.) I can't comment on tank mileage accuracy as I don't think I've done enough calibration fills yet.
When scanning the computer, it will sometimes give me a code of P0325 (knock sensor) then lose it on a re-scan (without clearing the codes.) Sometimes the code will "stick" and still be there even after clearing the codes. The check engine light is never lit during this. I'll probably check the sensor this summer some time. I haven't yet sabotaged the engine to try to get a code out of it (I believe it'll throw a code if I disconnect the TPS before a cold start.)
Final thoughts:
After a couple of weeks of using it I've found that I use the vacuum gauge more for an instant MPG readout than the SGII. I expect that as I tune my driving style more and better refine my hypermiling techniques it will become less useful for fuel mileage purposes. I will not be selling it, however. The other features that it has will more than make up for the loss in usefulness for hypermiling! I don't think I can stress enough how valuable a vacuum gauge on the dash board is for fuel economy. If you do buy a gauge don't get one of those tiny dashboard mount gauges. Get a decently large diagnostic use gauge and find someplace to mound it with a bit of velcro tape. I don't think I'd be 40% over EPA combined without mine. (I'll post some pics of my dash later in another thread on a more appropriate board, perhaps the introductions board...)
A few offtopic questions:
1. Would it do anything for fuel efficiency to buy high octane no-ethanol gas and advance the timing a bit? Right now it's set dead-on at 20* BTDC as given as spec in the factory service manual and Haynes book. Another question is would it be worth it? 4% gain, for example, woudln't be as even though I'd be burning less gas I'd be paying more for it per mile.
2. What effects does replacing the catalytic converter with a resonator pipe have on the system as a whole? (Apart from emissions that is.) I ask because this was done a month or so back due to a "misidentification" of the converter as a resonator pipe (I haven't yet decided if it was deliberate or not) by a small shop. The converter developed a leak right at the back where the pipe joins it so it had to be replaced. The rear O2 sensor on my car is oddly just in front of the cat instead of behind it so this hasn't caused the check engine light to come on. I haven't corrected the problem as there's no emissions testing in my state and I haven't noticed any issues die to it.
Notes:
Normally with a stick shift NICE-off would be a piece of cake, but the fault with mine causes it to refuse to idle after doing a clutch start. It runs fine afterward, but the moment I push the clutch in the engine will die unless I feather the gas. It starts to idle normally again after about 30 seconds of this. I'd fix the problem but I'd have to either pull the engine (lots of work) or take off the top half of the intake manifold (and the injectors, fuel rail, a bunch of vacuum lines for the EGR valve, and a bunch of other little things that seem to be in the way) to get to the part.
Now that I think about it, I probably should have used this as a sort of automatic FAS on that flat section of highway that killed my time. I don't do it normally as it's hazardous to have it happening in traffic.
If you decide to install a vacuum gauge remember to find the manifold vacuum and not ported vacuum. The line to the brake booster is always a safe bet. Keep in mind that you may need to buy some brass fittings to make yourself an adapter T junction to connect your gauge hose to whatever line you tap.
