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My wife and I are nearing the end of our relocation to upstate NY and have found ourselves a nice but somewhat 'fix-er-up-er" house that we'll be purchasing in a few weeks. The biggest thing that it needs ASAP is a new furnace and we want to pick a good replacement. (It's nearly 30 years old and has a badly cracked heat exchanger.)

This is a natural gas, forced hot air system. The guy who gave us our first round of quotes had four suggestions:

CHIMNEY-VENT 80% FURNACES:

LENNOX – G60UH-90…….2-Stage Gas Furnace - $2150
AMANA – GMH80-90… 2-Stage Gas Furnace - $1885

DIRECT-VENT 90% FURNACES:

LENNOX – G61MPV-91…….2-Stage, Variable Speed Gas Furnace - $4,495.00
AMANA – GMV95-90… 2-Stage Gas Furnace, Variable Speed Gas Furnace - $3,895.00


I think we're both inclined to ignore the 80% furnaces and shell out for the highest efficiency we can afford. (We plan to be in this house for a long time and this part of NY has a long, harsh heating season.) I gather there are some rebates to help with the cost as well.

Any knowledgeable opinions on good heating options? I'm not dead-set on the above models so long as we get something efficient and reliable.

I was looking at the same thing 2 years ago. 20 year old 80% 135,000 btu counter-flow gas furnace with a 4 ton 8 seer split unit. The furnace ran a lot and the AC would not get the temp below 80° in the house when it was near 95° outside.

I got several quotes to change out and received prices similar to yours.

I ended up purchasing one from Ingram's Heating and Air (http://ingramswaterandair.com/) off of the internet. The equivalent replacement that I chose was a 93% Goodman 90,000 btu 2 stage gas furnace with a 5 ton 14 seer AC unit.

Big difference in the gas and electric bill. With the old unit, I had at least 1 bill each summer near $300. The last 2 years, I haven't even broke $200. The AC cycles on and off and their is no comparison to the comfort level. The new scroll compressor is MUCH quieter too.

I installed it myself and only paid a guy $180 to make the solder joints on the new line set and gas it up. I ended up with a little less than $2800 in it not counting the Energy Star credit.

When I am gone on my 12 hr shifts, I don't have to worry about the thermostat being set at 75°:eek: or in the summer set at 65°:eek::eek::eek:

Firewood should be available in upstate New York. Depending on your access to wood and interest in getting your exercise cutting/splitting wood, a dual fuel or add-on wood furnace may be worth considering.

Have you looked into heat pumps Tim? Air source and or ground source. Ground source is the way to go , but requires two wells. Most places require a back-up heat for air source as they don't do well at very cold temperatures. Initial cost is higher ,but the cost of heat is much less. Not sure how long the get even time is, but if you have time you should check it out? Hal

Buy the highest efficiency unit you can get. If Washington decides to ram through Cap and Tax you will be glad you did.

I put in a Rheem Classic 90 Plus at 92% (I went back and looked at the tag) efficiency at work about five years ago. It made a big difference in my gas bills over the 40 year old unit that it replaced.

Hi Tim;

When I built my place I went with a High Efficiency 96+ from Bryant (Carrier) and haven't looked back since.

A couple of years later I installed a high efficiency air conditioning unit (Carrier - With PURON) and that earlier move on the furnace ended up earning me 4 more SEER points on the AC rating because of the variable speed control and a few other design/operation advantages afforded by a high efficiency furnace.

In other words, Picking a good furnace just adds to your savings and options later on.

One other thing... if possible consider an electronic air cleaner as well. ;)

Cheers;

MSantos

My setup echos what Manuel has described (same equipment).

Thanks, guys, we'll have to look into that! One of the concerns is that the A/C system is just as old and probably on its way out so we need to plan for that as well.

I'm very familiar with ground-source, air-source, and dual-source heat pumps. What stops me is the $10-$15k price tag combined with the ludicrous electric rates in NY. For the money I think we'd be better off with a high-efficiency gas system as well as a very thorough investigation of the insulation and taking care of any deficiencies. The home inspector already gave us several good ideas such as improving the insulation around the sill and adding some strategically-placed spray foam to stop air infiltration from the living space into the attic.

Is considering various CHP systems like Freewatt within scope?
If they did one that could run on #2 I'd seriously consider it;
at this point I'm probably looking to at least get a new burner
for my wheezy ol' forced-air and maybe rebuild the firebox liner
if I can get sufficient work-room in there.
.
_H*

If you do some improvements to the attic insulation and some of the areas you talked about, then your old air-conditional may do a better job. Insulation make a big difference and is money well spent.:D I am looking at a 96% high-efficiency furnace as well. I was very interested in GS Heat pumps until I received the quotes. $30,000 and more. In time these prices should come down. It is just to new of technology in this area yet.
cheers,Hal

The ground source systems are not coming down any. I was building homes 20 years ago and a few people wanted them. They were $20+ then. Payback time is about 20 years but maintenance runs more since there are more mechanical parts that run. The pump is an item that needs replacement commonly.

The AC cost will be more now also since hi pressure R410A is mandated.

The colder it gets outside, the less efficent heat pumps get. If it is below 20 degrees or so, you need to go to aux heat anyway. In the colder areas of the country, gas would be better.

I am a Lennox employee, so am very biased on what I would pick. Let me know if needed and I can email the owners manual and other open source documents to you. One selling point is the G61MPV is very quiet.

After much hemming and hawing and balking at silly prices we finally pulled the trigger on a new system today. The furnace will be a Carrier Infinity 58MVC. That's rated at 95% AFUE with a variable speed blower. And since the A/C system is 20 years old we have ordered a 17 SEER A/C system to go with it. (I think the as-installed efficiency will be higher since we're coupling it with the higher-end furnace guts as Manuel was talking about.) The nice thing is that in addition to the $1500 federal tax credit Carrier is offering their own $1000 rebate on the system.

For anyone else considering a system right now my best advice is to shop around. A lot of contractors seem to be jacking up their prices because of the tax credits and rebates. We actually had Sears try to sell us an 80% Carrier furnace and 13 SEER A/C for $3k more than the quoted price of the unit we're buying. We couldn't get them out the door fast enough!

I guess this means Operation HyperHome is officially underway. This house seems fairly tight to begin with but I'm sure you can imagine I'm not about to pass on the myriad little improvements just begging to be made.