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Hi All, I'm from Elkton, MD. I own 1993 Toyota Camry LE V6, EPA 22, currently learning to hypermile, so far extended up to 26.5 MPG.

My car is non OBD-II compliant car, looking for MPG meter for my car, is there any meter that works with non OBD-II cars like mine?

Thanks.

Welcome to the site, Scott!

Yes, there are a couple of options you can look into -- one is the MPGuino and the other is the SuperMID (made by our very own user Yoshi). Both require some wiring (sorry, no easy plug-in option with these) but they work very well and are actually a bit more accurate than the SG can be when tracking fuel usage.

Welcome to the site, Scott!

Yes, there are a couple of options you can look into -- one is the MPGuino and the other is the SuperMID (made by our very own user Yoshi). Both require some wiring (sorry, no easy plug-in option with these) but they work very well and are actually a bit more accurate than the SG can be when tracking fuel usage.

Thanks for the advice, fortunately, I'm into Electronics, and I am willing to build anything! I will check into these things.

Have anyone tried to hypermile in Camry 1993 V6 car before? I need to know how much MPG it is capable of doing, that way I can set up a goal to achieve that MPG level.

Finally hit 28!!! Woo woo woo!!

Have not had a chance to get SuperMID yet.

Congratulations! That's an excellent milestone... particularly in winter temperatures. :flag:

Thanks!

Question:

The Speed limit on highway is 65 mph, I want to go 45-50 (Glide or coast or whatever), will that be ok? Should I use hazard lights on for that low speed?

45mph is a bit slow, but if there are gaps in the traffic you can glide to that low in spaces. Just time your accelerations to have you up to a reasonable speed by the time the next pack catches up.

Otherwise, I often DWL right around 50-52mph in my Insight on highways with that PSL. Time of day and weather conditions can have a heavy impact on whether or not that is safe. Be sure to ridge ride regardless so that you stand out as someone doing something different. Use the hazards if you see someone closing way too fast just to make sure they notice you and consider a long distance flash or two for OTR truckers (semi drivers) to give them plenty of notice and chance to switch lanes so they can pass you.

45mph is a bit slow, but if there are gaps in the traffic you can glide to that low in spaces. Just time your accelerations to have you up to a reasonable speed by the time the next pack catches up.

Otherwise, I often DWL right around 50-52mph in my Insight on highways with that PSL. Time of day and weather conditions can have a heavy impact on whether or not that is safe. Be sure to ridge ride regardless so that you stand out as someone doing something different. Use the hazards if you see someone closing way too fast just to make sure they notice you and consider a long distance flash or two for OTR truckers (semi drivers) to give them plenty of notice and chance to switch lanes so they can pass you.

Thanks for your advice, I will use that route. When I checked DWL from your reply, it says "Driving with load" what does that mean?

A good approximation is to simply hold your foot steady on the gas pedal as you go up and down hills. You'll slow down going uphill, but speed back up on the backside of the hill.

The goal is to keep your power output tailored to the terrain. The most efficient way over a hill is to crest it with the engine off and car barely moving. This is rarely practical (and shouldn't be done in your Camry anyway if it has an automatic transmission), but you get the idea. Imagine riding your bike. You'll want to get a "running start" at hills, and your speed will sag as you go up... then you can ease up and let gravity help you on the other side. When driving you'll want to let your speed sag on the hill down to some predetermined safe speed, then gain speed back on the other side. If you have an automatic transmission you'll want to manage your speeds so that you stay in torque lockup (which is more efficient than the other modes the transmission can be in). In a manual transmission you have a bit more flexibility but you'll still want to get up the hill as efficiently as you can.

Contrast this with cruiser control which only wants to maintain some set speed and you'll notice it uses a lot more fuel than it has to in order to get you from one point to another when hills are involved.

Thanks.

Sorry, I'm such an inquestive newbie.

Now, it would be nice if 1993 Toyota Camry is listed in mileage log so I can show my MPG in my signature and to see how I am ranked. =)

So far I started logging in fueleconomy.gov since 2/27/2010, and my average to this point is 25.9 MPG. The combined EPA for my 1993 Toyota Camry is 16/22 (combined EPA is 19) so, for a month, I've been doing 136% of combined EPA, is that correct?

Now, if I constantly do 28 MPG for the reminder of the year, bringing up average to say, approximately 27.5 MPG, then it would be 145% of combined EPA, is that correct?

No -- don't apologize! Questions are good and we love helping anyone on a quest for lowering fuel consumption. :)

Click on the link at the bottom of my signature block for lots of good info (including adding a mileage banner to your own signature). Just add your vehicle to the logs and enter the year with city and hwy numbers manually and you'll be good to go.

Your math is correct, by the way. :thumbs_up:

Testing my signature...

Found this link (http://www.cleanmpg.com/index.php?page=garage&displayunits=MPG(US)&viewuser=goldeagie), very comparable to my car -- my new GOAL: 35 MPG

Seems impossible... hmm...

What is the next thing you recommend that I practice next? One thing at a time. =)

That was quick! :)

What are your tires at for pressure right now? We generally recommend the max sidewall pressure as it is safe for the tire and lowers your rolling resistance by reducing flex in the tire sidewall.

Past that, work on timing any lights you might have to go through on your routes (meaning, adjust your speed well in advance so that you arrive at the light when it is green), plan your routes so that if you have multiple stops you go to the one that is furthest out first (so the car gets as warmed up as it can). If you have an engine block heater, use it!! Practice DWL -- that's a big one for automatic transmission vehicles.

Beyond that, be patient until you get some sort of gauge installed. It is difficult to improve when you can only see the results after a full tank of driving.

Sean's nailed it. Keep it rolling - never stop if you can possibly avoid it. DWL when you are rolling.

I regularly see 30+ mpg highway trips in the Odyssey V6 by using DWL in the 55-60 mph range. It locks into top gear at 45, but hills... It's worthwhile to have a buffer so you can lose some speed on the uphill climbs.

That was quick! :)


Yepper, I'm dedicated to getting the money BACK into my pocket where it belongs!


What are your tires at for pressure right now? We generally recommend the max sidewall pressure as it is safe for the tire and lowers your rolling resistance by reducing flex in the tire sidewall.


36 PSI pushing at 36 PSI maximum. I use Gas Saver valve caps at 36 PSI (http://www.legacymfg.com/products/dynamic/details.asp?ModelNumberID=TH0402&displayLink=false), it shows green when it reaches 36 PSI. All 4 Tires Green (A4TG) which I will use on my gas logger, for every gas station visit I make, I make sure all 4 are Green "A4TG".


Past that, work on timing any lights you might have to go through on your routes (meaning, adjust your speed well in advance so that you arrive at the light when it is green), plan your routes so that if you have multiple stops you go to the one that is furthest out first (so the car gets as warmed up as it can). If you have an engine block heater, use it!!


That would be a challenge since I commute to work through hills. That is better than rear to rear traffic through 35 mph zone with 12 traffic lights.

I live close to Chespeake Bay (Elkton, MD) which doesn't leave me many alternative routes, I only have 2 routes to choose from (both bridge). The reason why I selected hills is because there are only 3 traffic stops and ABSOLUTELY no traffic at all on both ways to and from work (country road). I work in Middletown, DE.

Here is my route (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=Elkton,+MD&daddr=Unknown+road+to:Cayots+Corner+Rd%2FMD-310+E+to:Middletown+Warwick+Rd+to:Levels+Road,+Middletown,+DE&geocode=FftZXAIdSOB6-w%3BFdCKWgId2rV6-w%3BFQCUWgIdxut6-w%3BFU_NWQIdiSp8-w%3BFS1-WQIdsC58-yk_Medhmp_HiTGyq31Ld1LgkA&gl=us&hl=en&mra=mr&via=1,2,3&sll=39.381018,-75.715714&sspn=0.170632,0.358772&ie=UTF8&ll=39.508809,-75.827637&spn=0.340638,0.717545&z=11) (customized to meet my hypermiling requirements) with around 6 hills and HIGH angle bridge (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=Elkton,+MD&daddr=Unknown+road+to:Cayots+Corner+Rd%2FMD-310+E+to:Middletown+Warwick+Rd+to:Levels+Road,+Middletown,+DE&geocode=FftZXAIdSOB6-w%3BFdCKWgId2rV6-w%3BFQCUWgIdxut6-w%3BFU_NWQIdiSp8-w%3BFS1-WQIdsC58-yk_Medhmp_HiTGyq31Ld1LgkA&gl=us&hl=en&mra=mr&via=1,2,3&sll=39.381018,-75.715714&sspn=0.170632,0.358772&ie=UTF8&ll=39.522685,-75.816988&spn=0,359.994394&t=h&z=18&layer=c&cbll=39.522683,-75.816988&panoid=SKOdmYwJAe5oPGB3shVQsw&cbp=12,11.34,,0,25.58) on rt 213 and 2 mini hills in Bohemias Mills area (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=Elkton,+MD&daddr=Unknown+road+to:Cayots+Corner+Rd%2FMD-310+E+to:Middletown+Warwick+Rd+to:Levels+Road,+Middletown,+DE&geocode=FftZXAIdSOB6-w%3BFdCKWgId2rV6-w%3BFQCUWgIdxut6-w%3BFU_NWQIdiSp8-w%3BFS1-WQIdsC58-yk_Medhmp_HiTGyq31Ld1LgkA&gl=us&hl=en&mra=mr&via=1,2,3&sll=39.381018,-75.715714&sspn=0.170632,0.358772&ie=UTF8&ll=39.454122,-75.770259&spn=0.021439,0.044847&t=h&z=15).


Practice DWL -- that's a big one for automatic transmission vehicles.

Beyond that, be patient until you get some sort of gauge installed. It is difficult to improve when you can only see the results after a full tank of driving.

Thanks, I will check MPGuino out.

Sean's nailed it. Keep it rolling - never stop if you can possibly avoid it. DWL when you are rolling.

I regularly see 30+ mpg highway trips in the Odyssey V6 by using DWL in the 55-60 mph range. It locks into top gear at 45, but hills... It's worthwhile to have a buffer so you can lose some speed on the uphill climbs.

What year is the Odyssey? I would like to look it up on fueleconomy.gov

About buffer, do you mean a room behind me? Make sure there is no car behind me? I usually annoy the driver behind me by slowing down by 5 mph on that HIGH angle bridge. =P

Need to work on my manners....

Ok, here is the status of my car:

-Left front tire is misaligned, will need to align that.
-Engine is in excellent condition, oil changed every 3,000 miles.
-Air filter will need to be replaced.
-Cruise Control is performing excellent, held RPM faithfully while going up and down that high angle bridge, kept on close to 2,000 RPM @ 50 mph without down shifting to keep up! Normally if you go approximately 35-45, it WILL down shift.

I spoke with my Facility Manager, he suggested replacing oil, gears grease with latest synthetic technologies that will run as water in cold temperatures. Is there such a thing like that, something that I should consider?

Anything else?

2004. old epa 18/25, new epa 16/23. 3.5 V6 with a 5-speed auto.

I mean a speed buffer. If you start a long uphill at 50 mph, you may not be able to keep it above the 45 threshold before reaching the top. If you drop too low, the transmission will downshift, the rpm will shoot up, and your gas goes out the window in a hurry. If you start at 55, you're more likely to make it while still staying locked in top gear.

Oil - look up in your manual. I doubt you need to change it that often. Many here (myself included) like to use Mobil 1, but any high-quality synthetic is good. Pay attention to the weight and get the lowest your manual allows.

2004. old epa 18/25, new epa 16/23. 3.5 V6 with a 5-speed auto.


Aha, thanks. Now I'm even more motivated!!


I mean a speed buffer. If you start a long uphill at 50 mph, you may not be able to keep it above the 45 threshold before reaching the top. If you drop too low, the transmission will downshift, the rpm will shoot up, and your gas goes out the window in a hurry. If you start at 55, you're more likely to make it while still staying locked in top gear.


Gotcha. I will go up to 60 then let it droop down to 45 since that bridge is a killer.

I'm thinking about the difference between DWL or CC holding at 2k rpm @ 55mph. How big is the difference?


Oil - look up in your manual. I doubt you need to change it that often. Many here (myself included) like to use Mobil 1, but any high-quality synthetic is good. Pay attention to the weight and get the lowest your manual allows.

Thanks for the advice. I've been on eternal search for the manual. Toyota.com doesn't have it in pdf format either. I don't trust eBay since I'm IT with security in mind. I'm still looking for it.

I have Haynes repair book for my car, I'll check it out.

I don't like to use cc on hills. It's far too likely to downshift and/or use too much gas. It has a tendency to overreact, when you could finesse things yourself. On a flat highway it's fine, though.

Does the oil filler cap have a number on it? Mine says 5w30 right there on the cap.

I don't like to use cc on hills. It's far too likely to downshift and/or use too much gas. It has a tendency to overreact, when you could finesse things yourself. On a flat highway it's fine, though.


Gotcha. Thanks.


Does the oil filler cap have a number on it? Mine says 5w30 right there on the cap.

Duh me, yes it does. I'm at work right now, I'll check it out during lunch.

You can safely drop the top number down to zero... so if your car specifies 5W30 you can safely substitute 0W30. I'm not entirely convinced there are measurable benefits to doing so, though it should help in very very cold weather. (I'm still running 5W30 non-synthetic in my Elantra -- you can see results using that by clicking on the banner in my signature.)

I use SAE 10W-30

Is that what your oil cap calls for?

Yep. 10W-30. Should I take a picture and post it? =^D

That's okay. I believe you. :)

Too bad you can't get your hands on a manual to see if 5W30 is okay...

I'll check with Haynes book and see if I can find the answer.

Thanks!

Happy hypermiling!

I *FINALLY* achieved 30 MPG!!!

Fantastic!! What's your next goal? ;)

Fantastic!! What's your next goal? ;)

Practice more on my DWL, P&G, Smart Braking and no stop skills.

I went to Toyota dealer to look at Toyota Prius car, it looks awesome! I'm thinking about buying a used Toyota Prius sometime next year.

Speaking from some quality seat time in a few of the earlier generation Prius (not the very newest model just released recently... I've not had a chance to drive one of them yet) I don't think you'd be disappointed. It takes a lot of knowledge and skill to finesse them to their utmost fuel economy potential but they are great vehicles. :)

Speaking from some quality seat time in a few of the earlier generation Prius (not the very newest model just released recently... I've not had a chance to drive one of them yet) I don't think you'd be disappointed. It takes a lot of knowledge and skill to finesse them to their utmost fuel economy potential but they are great vehicles. :)

Have you tried other hybrid cars else than Prius? My wife and I went to Toyota store and looked around in 2 Prius models, 2010 and 2007, the interior is awesome! I do not want to limit our search ONLY to Prius if there are other cars that can perform as well as Prius that you or any hypermiler have to recommend.

BTW, I noticed when I replaced tires (it had bad belt inside, not alignment) and tuned up the engine, FE do improve!

Is there any youtube video of DWL, DWB, P&G etc on a gasoline car not hybrid cars worth watching? I know there are some on youtube, but I don't want to watch ones that claim to work that you or any elites do not recommend.

Hi, Scott... I've experience with a few hybrid models. ;) I drive a first gen Honda Insight MT, have driven a second gen Prius a fair amount, an '05 Ford Escape Hybrid, an '05 Civic Hybrid MT, an '09 Civic Hybrid, and a 2010 Fusion Hybrid. All are excellent vehicles but if you are looking at new vehicles the Prius has the max all around potential. In terms of used vehicles, it depends on how much effort you are willing to put into it and what kind of driving you'll be doing.

As for gas vehicles using hypermiling techniques, you can look for ones by Lamebums (in his Echo MT) and I know there is one Psyshack did a while back in his Civic. Both of those show DWL and DWB but they don't really show P&G. It is hard to get a good sense of what is going on through video with these techniques, though -- you don't get the sense of terrain or varying speed. It is much better if you can ride with someone showing you the techniques.

Hi, Scott... I've experience with a few hybrid models. ;) I drive a first gen Honda Insight MT, have driven a second gen Prius a fair amount, an '05 Ford Escape Hybrid, an '05 Civic Hybrid MT, an '09 Civic Hybrid, and a 2010 Fusion Hybrid. All are excellent vehicles but if you are looking at new vehicles the Prius has the max all around potential. In terms of used vehicles, it depends on how much effort you are willing to put into it and what kind of driving you'll be doing.


I enjoy hypermiling as my new hobby, I wouldn't mind putting into any effort to beat you guys in competition. :bananalama:


As for gas vehicles using hypermiling techniques, you can look for ones by Lamebums (in his Echo MT) and I know there is one Psyshack did a while back in his Civic. Both of those show DWL and DWB but they don't really show P&G. It is hard to get a good sense of what is going on through video with these techniques, though -- you don't get the sense of terrain or varying speed. It is much better if you can ride with someone showing you the techniques.

Thanks, I will look them up.

My current BIGGEST challenge is to hypermile INSIDE Elkton city. I've been trying to practice DWB, often had to turn right and let GPS re-route my way to my destination, ended up having to stop somewhere. Question: If I put my Automatic transmission into Neutral, and use brake, will it still use up gas?

Yes -- the engine will continue to freewheel in neutral using fuel. If you have to slow we recommend using deceleration fuel cutoff -- this is typically activated when the car is decelerating in gear (using engine braking) and the RPM is over approximately 1100 RPM (the threshold is vehicle dependent). To extend it to lower speeds you can downshift using gears 2 and 1 but be sure you practice this with no one behind you first -- the rapid deceleration can be startling and you need to remember that unless you are on the brakes following traffic will have no warning you are slowing. Even with brakes, dropping gears in an automatic can really sharply increase the level of braking.

Did another good run on my tank, this time 29.701, new goal: stabilize at average of 30 MPG until I get SuperMID installed.

Currently working on:

Auto coaxing
P&G
DWB
Potiental Parking


I need a starting point advices from everyone. Here is the common scenario that I face:

While running on level road @ 45 mph (45 mph psl), approaching an intersection, using GPS how many miles should I start coasting to a point that I would turn at reasonable speed without ruining my new tires?

What pressures are you running? Is the intersection at a right angle?

In both of my cars (with high tire pressure) I take right handers on 90* turns at around 20mph if I've got regulation lane widths to deal with and clear sight lines. That drops if I've got to turn onto a narrow neighborhood street or I can see around the corner far enough.

Keep the radio off and listen to your tires. The higher the pressure the less they will "chirp" but you can hear them start to slide. This might be harder to hear with the engine on, but try anyway -- I'm typically doing this with the engine off in my cars (both MT equipped).

I was also going to say 20 mph for the turn.

There are so many variables, you'll just have to experiment. Find some checkpoint (a tree or a sign) and start your glide there. Then, if you get to the corner going too fast, find an earlier checkpoint. (or later if you're too slow)

Also be aware that it changes with the seasons. In summer, you can start the glide a good distance sooner than in winter - the tires roll better.

What pressures are you running? Is the intersection at a right angle?


Tires running 35 psi maxed out @ 35 wall max, tach running 1,750 RPM @ 45 mph and the intersection is at a right angle.


In both of my cars (with high tire pressure) I take right handers on 90* turns at around 20mph if I've got regulation lane widths to deal with and clear sight lines. That drops if I've got to turn onto a narrow neighborhood street or I can see around the corner far enough.


When I do turn around, I tend to get on left lane (after clarifying both ways for safety), then make a big circular turn, getting too close to the corner on the right then get on left lane into that turn then gradually return to right lane. Felt those tires scrapping a little.


Keep the radio off and listen to your tires. The higher the pressure the less they will "chirp" but you can hear them start to slide. This might be harder to hear with the engine on, but try anyway -- I'm typically doing this with the engine off in my cars (both MT equipped).

BTW, I'm deaf, I do not use radio (I felt sorry for y'all hehe), I'm completed focused, fully connected to the engine, analyzing its purriness, its roar during acceleration, trying to keep the lion's roar at bay (downshifting then accelerate). I have no problem turning around like that. The problem is with DWB, I OFTEN had to "Smart Brake" to adjust often found myself overspeeding or underspeeding too slow (went down at 10mph at intersection. LOL

What I meant is if I approach an intersection @ .5 mile (from GPS) should I start coasting at that point @ 45mph on level (no uphill or downhill) with Toyota Camry (heavy car).

I was also going to say 20 mph for the turn.

There are so many variables, you'll just have to experiment. Find some checkpoint (a tree or a sign) and start your glide there. Then, if you get to the corner going too fast, find an earlier checkpoint. (or later if you're too slow)


Will try that in treeless, houseless farmland. I probably will have to put up a stick with orange flags on right side, LOL. I will try and memorize the area, correcting from day to day..


Also be aware that it changes with the seasons. In summer, you can start the glide a good distance sooner than in winter - the tires roll better.

Thanks for the advice, will keep that in mind.

I think you are just going to have to experiment with turning speeds and then once you've figured out what you can do at a particular intersection, start adjusting glide distances until you are at the speed you want when you get to the turn. As Andrew indicated, this will vary with environmental changes (temperature, water on the road, etc).

Think of it like billiards (without any actual collisions!:eek:) -- you will get a feel for the momentum of the car if you just coast whenever you can with an aim to making a certain spot ahead at a certain speed. To be really good a billiards you have to know just how much force to impart via impulse to the cue ball to get it to end up in a particular place on the table when it stops rolling. It is the same with the car. I can't tell you how satisfying it is to get everything just right so that the car rolls to a stop at a light or sign with zero application of the brakes. :D

I think you are just going to have to experiment with turning speeds and then once you've figured out what you can do at a particular intersection, start adjusting glide distances until you are at the speed you want when you get to the turn. As Andrew indicated, this will vary with environmental changes (temperature, water on the road, etc).


Gotcha. I will have to find a day to drive around in these parts taking hit on FE on my tank. I probably will not upload the next tank info so not to screw up my status. lol.




Think of it like billiards (without any actual collisions!:eek:) -- you will get a feel for the momentum of the car if you just coast whenever you can with an aim to making a certain spot ahead at a certain speed. To be really good a billiards you have to know just how much force to impart via impulse to the cue ball to get it to end up in a particular place on the table when it stops rolling. It is the same with the car. I can't tell you how satisfying it is to get everything just right so that the car rolls to a stop at a light or sign with zero application of the brakes. :D

Gotcha, I suck with billiards, probably will have to play with it to get the basic idea of how it works ;)

Oh, by the way, how long did it take for you to get used with cars that is tailgating the heck out of you because YOU are slow? I got angry drivers behind me on one lane, doing 45-50 on 55 mph one lane zone.

I suspect I'll never be completely used to it, but the blood pressure level did go down after about 2 weeks of holding my own. ;)

I suspect I'll never be completely used to it, but the blood pressure level did go down after about 2 weeks of holding my own. ;)

cool. I noticed in your signature, you managed to use table, how did you get around to it? I am trying to put my signature image alongside my status without borders.

Scott, here's the code I used:


- Sean

http://tinyurl.com/6atqcd (http://tinyurl.com/5g8wcn)
http://tinyurl.com/3n4mqz (http://tinyurl.com/4ndh52)|http://tinyurl.com/p4w2yk|<-- She got to drive an EV before I did!! :D

I'm a slow driver with a FASed car! :flag:

New? Start here! (http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?p=186358)

Check my signature out...

Took image of my console last night on my test run (90 miles)

Gotcha, I suck with billiards, probably will have to play with it to get the basic idea of how it works ;)

This should help ;)

http://www.youtube.com/v/McThDshEgU0&hl=en&fs=1


















Whatcha think? :D That ball ends up exactly where he wants it.

This should help ;)
Whatcha think? :D That ball ends up exactly where he wants it.

LOL! I went over to my friend's house about 40 miles away last night. I *NEARLY* made it at the stop sign!! I stopped about 1/4 way across the road in intersection. Not bad eh?

I also went on the ENTIRE section of road in (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=DE-299+E%2FMiddletown+Warwick+Rd%2FUS-301+N&daddr=Middleneck+Rd&hl=en&geocode=FU66WQIdTgh8-w%3BFbjmWQIdIcB7-w&mra=ls&sll=39.445274,-75.740089&sspn=0.036123,0.079737&ie=UTF8&ll=39.440502,-75.766182&spn=0.018063,0.039868&z=15) neutral, when approaching the stop sign I was going 2 MPH!!!

Right now I finally mastered the Automatic Transmission coaxing and am now practicing to SMOOTH the transitions.

I also created a file for MPG tracking, planning and graph of tank usage per 1/4 of tank in excel file. Hypermiling is becoming my OCD, lol!!!

Sounds like you've not only got the idea, but a fair notion of how to apply it -- good work! :):thumbs_up:

Thanks!
:Banane31:

Can anyone show me the google map with a road section, explaining your best P&G or powered off cruise that you ever experienced like I showed earlier? I would LOVE to hear and visualize your story!!

Sean,

I just now realize that I am "Competing" against myself, looking at others' mileage logs, wanting to beat them.

The desire that drives the purpose.

Excellent! Keep track of your coasting distances (and when you get that gauge installed, segment mileages) and keep trying to improve upon them. There is no more perfect competition than yourself. Just remember that it is all in good fun and very difficult to compare terrain/routes/weather/vehicles/times with other people. Don't get discouraged if you seem to get stuck on a plateau -- there are lots of those on the road to improved hypermiling and can usually be exceeded with some diligent effort. :)

Will do!

I noticed when I changed the way I start driving in the mornings, I left heater off, cracked window open and drove with gloves, the transmission TC started to respond EARLIER than when heater was turned on the first time! Hopefully that will help with my goal.

However, I hit a raccoon last night, I was all shook up, my car tire alignment is hit a little, feel "nervousness" when driving. Just had my car tuned up recently only to hit that raccoon!!

*grumbles*

Ah, DWG. I was doing that this morning as well.

AHA, DWG, new wording to me!! Thanks Andrew!

Just hit the high, 30.175 MPG compared to the previous 30.074 MPG! I watched YouTube (Since I'm deaf, I take assumptions) before the tank refill recording to 30.175 MPG, about P&G on Tacoma with ScanGagueII, FINALLY understood (as much as I can possibly understand) about how it operates. Applied the same with my Toyota Camry, was able to achieve approx 300 miles @ half tank compared to the previous 270 miles @ half tank! I'm excited to see what new technique that I've been practicing can bring!

Mastered DWL, practicing DWB, used DWG during cold startup @ 32 deg, and NICE on all downhills possible.

Question: Sometimes when I went up hill, cresting to the "more downhill" than uphill, it can be tricky. I thought I was going downhill, tried to perform NICE, but the car slowed down, only to find out that I was STILL going a bit uphill. Is there any device that will tell me whether I am still going uphill or downhill?

Hi, Scott -- you might be able to use one of those cheap, ball type compasses for this purpose. Since they float in a liquid you can make a mark on the clear plastic that indicates level position and use the ball's position as an indicator of inclination. I don't personally have such a device but since I mostly travel the same routes every day I've learned through trial and error (much as you did) where there are slopes and in what direction they lie.

That sounds like a good idea, since I am too much into cosmetics (keeping interior as original as possible), i might want to find small compass, mountable on a window, behind rearview mirror or something. :D :D :D

Made another personal record, 30.9 MPG -- nearing 31...

Went back to auto repair, found RF wheel a little bent out, fixed and REPLACED 2 more tires (now have all 4 new tires!)

Rolling down on NICE-on as smooth as baby's butt.... Hopefully enough to go up to 32 MPG.

Bought *SMALL* ball-type liquid compass for uphill/downhill indicator, placed just above the rear mirror.

Still waiting for Yoshi's response on my superMID inquiry.

Mastered DWL, working on DWB (kept rolling past Stop sign @ less than 5 mph), NICE-on coasting, potential parking, any new tricks you have for me?

Good work!!

Light timing, alternate routes (for when you run into traffic or see fast traffic coming up behind you and want to get out of the way), and reverse passing. ;)

On my regular commute to work using alternate route, there is only 2 lane highway, reverse passing isn't possible. I often have tailgater following me, tried to stay all the way to the white line on right side, the car wouldn't budge to pass, aggressively trying to push my button, and yes, even on broken lines!!

Yesterday wasn't my day!!! I tried to find different route to go to meeting down in Dover, hit uneven road for 5 miles!! Hit my FE so much gas that I almost cried! NEVER again will I go that route, trying to salvage my tank with AGGRESSIVE P&G, going on HIGHEST gear and LOWEST RPM on most of my commutes to catch up the loss.... :angry:

I noticed when I DWL uphill @ 45-55 mph, my engine shutters a little, but disappears if on lower gear before 50mph or going over 55mph on level. It doesn't repeat going 50-55 on level road. What might be wrong with it?

Not enough torque in the top gear with the load (due to gradient of the road) -- ie, the RPM is too low to develop enough power. Can you attack the hill at a little higher speed?

I'll have to do that, been trying to cut more fat off meat, probably started to cut meat off instead. LOL...

not bad -- 29.59 mpg even with 5 miles of rough road and had to go 65 mph for appointment that we had to get on time for.

I made a video of my driving from my work area to home area. Plan to upload to youtube, 30 minutes long...

Will let you know when I uploaded, for y'all to see and give me pointers.

It's interesting experience yesterday. My parents had 35 years wedding last weekend and I drove my dad's car, a 2000 Focus car. It doesn't have tachometer which made things more difficult for me to drive an ICE car. It is a 4 cylinder, very sensitive in transmission shifting and tight in turns. I tried to DWL up hills and it was a challenge. I had no way to predict WHEN it tend to downshift so I had to speed up. I realized on how IMPORTANT to have a tachometer in a car to be a successful hypermiler! I didn't fill gas up in between trips to figure out MPG, but I'm sure my driving habit is better than my parent's. They tend to speed up, just like any other "normal" drivers.

My pride of 30 MPG has fallen. The last tank is 26.764 mpg due to 15 mph headwind this week. Is there any advices in how I can keep my mpg up against the headwind? Or is that something that I have to swallow and accept?

Hi, Scott -- wind can be difficult to deal with. About your only recourse is lower speeds. Since you have hills, that may not even be an option for you. :(

Alright, I'll go for 40 MPH, leaving early in the morning before traffic so not to annoy drivers behind me.

I think I went up to a hypermiler in front of me when I approached Odessa, DE on RT 13 Southbound last Saturday night. Symptoms of a hypermiler:

Car was on white line and went 35 mph in Odessa, looks like it went into neutral while going downhill (I went into neutral, we were in perfect synchorization), sped up to 45-50 mph on rt 13 southbound.

Question...

In past month, I've noticed that when I go 40 mph, rpm tend to go @ 1,750, and 2,250 RPM @ 50 mph

Now in last few days I noticed it went down 1,500 RPM @ 40 mph and 1,750 RPM @ 50 mph..

Is it because of warm weather or is it because of something else.

I do not want to make assumptions to think that it is good if it is not.

It could be the weather, or it could be the car learning your new driving style.

It could be the weather, or it could be the car learning your new driving style.

LOL! I'm contemplating Slick 50.... still hesitating, need feedback before I go ahead...

I seem to lose the ability to do 30mpg anymore, 2nd 26 MPG in a row, no wind, nothing that could cause my car to go low.

What should I look for to get it back to 30 MPG? My driving habit is the same -- the same way I did to achieve 30 MPG.

Things to think on (in no particular order):

Oil - is it lightweight? Is it "full-to-the-max" full? Better to be mid-range in the "full" than all the way at the tip-top.
Junk - does your car need cleaned out? Extra stuff = extra weight to move.
Tires - check PSI and wear.
Alignment - have winter potholes upset the car?
Fuel System Cleaner - Chevron Techron or Gumout with "REGANE" are top-notch. Add to a tank and see if it helps. Or, for heavy clean, add when near empty and drive 30-60 miles for a higher concentration of cleaner.
General other maintenance - plugs, wires, battery, air filter.


Hope you find a culprit somewhere!

I suspect your current low tanks are tank fill artifacts. You're doing fine except for those discouraging setbacks.

I wanted to mention two things.

With AT cars, there's actually a FE penalty when you're NICE-on coasting below 20 mph. You may be getting 200 mpg coasting at 55 mph, 60 mpg coasting at 30 mph, and <30 mpg coasting at 20 mph. You'll actually get better mpg with most ATs if you roll up to them at 20 mph rather than 2 mph.

Back on page 6, you mentioned something about best P&G and coasting routes. I've driven cross country several times, and remember some stunning mpg drives. One was 59 mpg for 165 miles from Gallup, NM to Tuba City, AZ in my xB. Another was 80 mpg for 30 miles from Truckee, CA to Verdi, NV (and 75 mpg for 40 miles to Reno) in the xB. Last week I pulled 68 mpg for 30 miles from Buckman Springs, CA (a rest area) to El Cajon, CA in my SE-R. The latter two legs were long downhill coasts, but Gallup to Tuba City was just unhurried high speed P&G under ideal conditions.

There'll be bad days, and bad tanks to offset the good. Last week I had 2 days of ferocious 30-40 mpg desert crosswinds and headwinds, and got my second-worst tank ever in my SE-R, 33 mpg, on one of those days. The sucky tanks go in the fuel log, too.

Woo hoo. Previous post was my thousandth here!

More detail on Gallup to Tuba City. It's mostly 2 lane highway on the Navajo reservation, 65 mph PSL, with light traffic - at least in the morning when I was driving it. There are plenty of mesas you climb, followed by miles-long coasts to maximize mpgs. I P&G with the xB to 60 mph and glide to 45 or 50 mph depending on traffic density. On my 59 mpg run, I often glided to as low as 35 mph to maximize my glides, since there were usually no other cars in sight.

What do you mean by " tank fill artifacts "?

BTW congrats on your 1k posts!

Just that you may have underfilled prior tanks, and that might have caught up to you with your last two tanks.

Got back up to 30.4 MPG -- stopped NICE-on coasting @ less than 20 MPH, occasionally do NICE-off coasting IF less than 20 MPH.

Currently working on my acceleration problem, I noticed I accelerated pretty quickly, being in the competition. LOL...

Since I have not heard from guy who handles SuperMID, I kept on guessing -- how do I know if I am accelerating accordingly to a point that it increases MPG?

A little this and there any possible way to INCREASE MPG for my competition!

Add a vacuum gauge to your instrumentation, and start reading up on the MPGuino.

agreed on the vacuum gauge. 12 psi (light vacuum) and below 2000 rpm for accelerating.

Vacuum Gague, 12 psi for pre 1995 Cars (non OBDII compliance)?

agreed on the vacuum gauge. 12 psi (light vacuum) and below 2000 rpm for accelerating.

Below 2000 rpm, but quickly up to 2000 rpm?

When we talk about LOD on the scangauge, ~75 or 80 LOD is translatable to about 12 psi on a vacuum gauge. 14.7 psi is ambient pressure and you see that at Wide Open Throttle. You want to be below WOT. Low psi (lots of vacuum) means the throttle is severely restricting the intake, which is also inefficient. Somewhere between those is best.

Since you have an automatic, it's likely that your best will be lower LOD, or maybe 10-11 psi on the vacuum gauge.

Below 2000 rpm, but quickly up to 2000 rpm?

When and where ever possible, always below 2000. You have a big engine, so keep it turning slowly. Somewhere around 45 mph, the transmission will lock into gear. After that, the rpm is directly related to your speed. Below that point, you can somewhat control the rpm with your right foot. Keep it low.

When and where ever possible, always below 2000. You have a big engine, so keep it turning slowly. Somewhere around 45 mph, the transmission will lock into gear. After that, the rpm is directly related to your speed. Below that point, you can somewhat control the rpm with your right foot. Keep it low.

Locking the TC, got that. Will try doing it more slowly.

Thanks.

Traveled to Hagerstown, MD from Elkton, MD ELIMINATING P&G entirely, used NICE-On Coasting on ALL downhills, DWL , DWB , Potential Parking , etc... One BIG hit on my tank was when I followed my friend around in Hagerstown going 70mph, high acceleration and gas wasting techniques. Used this route (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=Elkton,+MD&daddr=US-40+W+to:I-695+W+to:Hagerstown,+MD&hl=en&geocode=FftZXAIdSOB6-ylDx9xykaXHiTEIDF6AZjuFFQ%3BFR_NWwId7kp3-w%3BFSDXWAIdcGpw-w%3BFaPiXAIdRxZe-ynd34EUFe3JiTE5ct8mCGLyZQ&mra=mr&via=1,2&sll=39.585053,-76.041183&sspn=0.339736,0.602188&ie=UTF8&ll=39.366156,-76.511536&spn=1.363216,2.807007&z=9). Hit my HIGHEST MPG ever!!!


288 Miles
9.111 Gallons
31.610 MPG
166.37 of Combined EPA for THIS Tank

When recording my mileage log into fueleconomy.gov I encountered this error:

WARNING:
The MPG is larger than expected


*grin*
:Banane35:

You know you're a hypermiler when...

;)

Isn't that pretty much the definition of hypermiler? ;)

Interesting "You know you're a hypermiler when..."

I was thinking of a whole different perspective...

Before I was hypermiling, I tend to slowly go past cars, sometimes quickly...

I was planning where to go, looking ahead and so on...

Last night on the way back home on I70, I was looking at rear view mirror, DOING the EXACT same thing inside THAT world!

This thread reminds me of my enthusiasm when I started hyermiling. You're definitely hooked, Scott. Welcome to the club! I think you're going to set the standard for the V-6 AT Camry.

When recording my mileage log into fueleconomy.gov I encountered this error:

WARNING:
The MPG is larger than expected


*grin*
:Banane35:

To fix this all you need to do is contact them (through the link on this page: http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/contacts.shtml

It will still show up red on your tracker, but it will update your average and advertise it to the rest of the world properly.

My red point is right at 37.5. :)

Funny thing is, my wife is not really interested in hypermiling since I started (Feb 27, 2010). However, after a long period of riding with me in Camry, she became accustomed with my new driving habits, noticed on how much gas was saved and less stress.

One time when I tried to catch my parent driving on opposite road, I had to drive up to make a U turn to get there in a hurry. When I was trying to hurry, my wife told me "HEY! Don't forget to hypermile!" I looked at her in utter shock, a newly converted hypermiler in the process!

My FE Challenge is nearing my overall goal of 30 MPG AVG (29.7 MPG) and my overall is going at 28.4 MPG Average. Currently I am trying to get it up to 28.5 on my overall average so I can nab the "ELITE HYPERMILER" title. =)

I can't believe on how far I went since I started hypermiling... so much to learn...

My coworker allowed me to take a spin in her THC. Its awesome, drove down on the road where I commute for first 5 minutes, and noticed that it was taking up so much gas by going on SLIGHT uphill. I didn't notice that on my 1993 camry. I like that THC's "analog" feel of MPG gague, something that Prius should have. VERY instantaneous, shows EXACTLY where on road is giving car hard time.

After work today, I'll try and develop a new driving habit on that road and see if I make any difference on my NEXT tank. *sigh*... still waiting for reply about SuperMID from Yoshi...

Is there such a thing like analog MPG gague that THC has for older cars (dubious)?

Why not install an MPGuino?

Why not install an MPGuino?

Ok, I gave up waiting on Yoshi, can I have direct link to make an order for MPGuino?

Thanks.

Since I am at work with youtube and google video blocked, is there any video online that I can view about MPGuino?

Go to ecomodder.com. They have a whole section dedicated to the 'guino.

Gotcha, here is the link (http://opengauge.org/mpguino/) if I got it correctly.

I'm preparing to purchase MPGuino and would like feedback. My plan here is to set up female connector inside the store area under radio, far back, on top and to the right. That way it will allow me to disconnect MPGuino from car for cosmetics reason. (my wife...)

Here are the connectors that I would use, female mounted on the container by itself:

http://hizost.com/f/po (http://hizost.com/)

And four wire ribbon to keep things clean inside and for between connector and MPGuino (using heat wrap sleeve, of course)

http://hizost.com/f/py (http://hizost.com/)

And taps (If anyone know smaller and better, please let me know.

http://hizost.com/f/pn (http://hizost.com/)

Now I looked at radioshack's enclosure -- TOO boxy, do anyone have MPGuino and know of a better, slimmer enclosure for it?

The Enclosure Thread, Show Yours Off!!! (http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthread.php/enclosure-thread-show-yours-off-6873.html)

Sorry, had to do it. :D

The Enclosure Thread, Show Yours Off!!! (http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthread.php/enclosure-thread-show-yours-off-6873.html)

Sorry, had to do it. :D

Thanks for the pointer!!

This is Milwaukee from other site.


I am inspired that you got 31 mpg. I can see why tachometer is important to have one. My truck didn't came with it. I plan add one this summer.


I am sure you could reach 35 mpg in summer. It would help you very much by add vacuum gauge. It will work on old car. It use engine's vacuum system. When vacuum gauge drop to 10-0 psi it mean you are lug engine and waste gas.


Look like I be make thread here about my F250.

Makita: where can I find vacuum gauge for my Camry? There are a lot of them out there, which one do you recommend?

Makita: where can I find vacuum gauge for my Camry? There are a lot of them out there, which one do you recommend?



Just find one that you can see. It will be at local auto store. Like this http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-G2936/


I would use rubber line over nylon line it easier and need get some fitting to get rubber hose to fit gauge.

Thanks, I'll check it out.

I'm going to compete more SERIOUSLY this time TONIGHT.

From: Elkton, MD
To: Magnolia, DE (to visit my friend, any excuse to hypermile)

Instead of this original route (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=elkton+MD&daddr=Augustine+Herman+Hwy%2FMD-213+S+to:39.496623,-75.658722+to:Magnolia,+DE&geocode=FftZXAIdSOB6-ylDx9xykaXHiTEIDF6AZjuFFQ%3BFf6fWgIdbrx6-w%3B%3BFfgtVAIdv1OA-yndG_5r-4K4iTHT-TyG5yrAvQ&hl=en&mra=dpe&mrcr=0&mrsp=2&sz=10&via=1,2&sll=39.3173,-75.679321&sspn=0.644898,0.997009&ie=UTF8&ll=39.378895,-75.676575&spn=0.64433,0.997009&z=10), I altered to this route (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=elkton+MD&daddr=Galena+Rd%2FMD-290+S%2FMD-313+S+to:Goldsboro+Rd%2FOld+Line+Rd+to:39.062915,-75.596924+to:Magnolia,+DE&geocode=FftZXAIdSOB6-ylDx9xykaXHiTEIDF6AZjuFFQ%3BFUY3WAIdSDh6-w%3BFbirUwIdpJl7-w%3B%3BFfgtVAIdv1OA-yndG_5r-4K4iTHT-TyG5yrAvQ&hl=en&mra=dme&mrcr=0&mrsp=3&sz=10&via=1,2,3&sll=39.311988,-75.739746&sspn=0.644947,0.997009&ie=UTF8&ll=39.338546,-75.727386&spn=0.644702,0.997009&z=10) allowing me to go at slower speeds and more NICE-on coasting on downhills and intersections.

Wish me luck!

You must have steel balls to attempt to do that.

I try do that here. TONS of people were on my tail. Tons of people yell bad words or sign to me.


But I would do when I am on vacation at North of Michigan where mostly few cars there so I can drive slow.

You must have steel balls to attempt to do that.

I try do that here. TONS of people were on my tail. Tons of people yell bad words or sign to me.


But I would do when I am on vacation at North of Michigan where mostly few cars there so I can drive slow.

Develop thick skin, ignore them. I often set my rear view mirror down to a way that I can't really see their faces, just their vehicle. "Let ignorant be ignorant" always has been my motto anyway. :)

The test drive (124.1 miles) from Elkton, MD to Magnolia DE (http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&msa=0&msid=112923603793893093859.000484ad035dd57b6843a&t=h&z=10) was a LEARNING experience! I first planned an alternate route on maps.google.com figuring out ways to DWB and many NICE-on coasting locations. Mathematically figured out to be able to do @ 29 MPG with my 26 MPG "EPA" (my lowest MPG).

During the drive, I drove average of 38.6 MPH (highest was 45, nothing further), performed NICE-on coasting on downhills and at stops, sometimes fas as I approach stop signs. My DWB improved drastically, learned to use GPS to figure out how many miles to the next stop sign, started NICE-on coasting and approached stop signs at 10 MPH, enough to check for both side before going right. Whenever I go straight or left, I fas after long NICE-on coasting to save gas when I need to use brake (had to use muscles!!)

While recovering the speed from NICE-on coasting/stop, I learned to coax the automatic transmission WHILE TC is STILL locked starting @ 25-30 MPH!!! It requires A LOT OF patience, keeping eyes @ tachometer, keeping it from downshifting during the recovery process. My feet was as light as feather from inside pillow on the gas pedal during that process. My goal was to keep it at LEAST 25 MPH throughout the trip, failed only three times (all stops.)

The trip was LESS stressing, VERY few cars came up tailgating, then passed. I stayed on the right line every time when car approached, once did I pull over to shoulder, keeping the 40 mph speed with hazard lights on for a flock of cars to pass by. This trip is very relaxing and extremely scenic for me and my wife to enjoy.

Overall, I am able to achieve 32.83 MPG on this trip! :Banane53:

I look forward for MPGuino as I am ORDERING it today!!! Can't wait to use it, hopefully it will help me to iron out my skills, achieving the impossible 38 MPG (200% of EPA.)

Any more suggestions/advices?

Scott, you are doing a fantastic job right now. :) Keep up the good work and when you get that MPGuino in start keeping track of mileage on often traveled segments so you can gauge your progress from trip to trip. Also, to get better fill consistency (I know you are filling early now because you have no other way to track) use as much of the tank as you comfortably can. Pumps vary a bit in fill volume, but that variance is within a fixed absolute volume. If you put more in the error margin is a smaller percentage of the total fill.

How is your DWL going?

Thanks Sean!

Still working on my DWL skills with newly discovered auto transmission coaxing with TC still locked in. Going up hill with TC still locked is a big challenge, probably will need to buffer up enough speed to prevent from losing TC lock. Now with yesterday's trip, I am applying what I learned in my daily commute, did exactly same thing this morning since yesterday's route is part of my daily commute with same geographical settings.

I also will need to learn how to keep MPG intact while going VERY VERY slight uphill, allowing speed to decrease.

Sounds good. When you see hills try to get (legal!) running starts. It is easier to let go of more speed and maintain mileage than to be right on the edge of losing TC lockup while traveling uphill.

My current goals:

1.) Work on DWB, DWL and NICE-on Coasting on my daily commute.
2.) Do a FULL tank instead of per trip (to check for MPG) for consistency doing by faith.
3.) Familiarize the city of Elkton, and study the route before making a trip INSIDE city, communicate plans with my wife.
4.) Slowly speeding up 5 mph+ psl before going uphill to bleed the speed.
5.) Get MPGuino installed and calibrated.
6.) Thinking about Slick 50 treatment for Automatic transmission.

Not sure I'd go for the Slick 50. I've seen mixed reports.

What engine oil are you using? Camry V6 (but I don't know what years) is known for sludge issues, so a good synthetic might do it some good. Mobil1 is what I use.

Mobil1 for Automatic transmission?

I mean for the engine. I dunno about ATF.

I mean for the engine. I dunno about ATF.

Ok, I will have to check into reliability of Slick 50, I want to do what is best for engine and that it saves gas. I normally send it to Walmart to have oil changed every 3,000 miles or 3 months.

MPGuino has been placed on order. :) :) :)

I see

I could try here. I do have light bar but I was fright if someone not pay attention and rear end my truck and $400 light bar.


I am sure Toyota V6 don't develop sludge if he keep same oil brand not switch to several oils.

If you were concerned you can open oil cap and use flashlight to look inside if you don't see like black tar then you be fine.



Where you order MPGuino? I thought you could build for like $50? I am interested in that and can you get pictures when you hook. I was Leary if it would work. I been hear lot problem with that one. It get hot then quit work correct. Make sure box is vent well so it won't get hot.

I see

I could try here. I do have light bar but I was fright if someone not pay attention and rear end my truck and $400 light bar.


I am sure Toyota V6 don't develop sludge if he keep same oil brand not switch to several oils.

If you were concerned you can open oil cap and use flashlight to look inside if you don't see like black tar then you be fine.



Where you order MPGuino? I thought you could build for like $50? I am interested in that and can you get pictures when you hook. I was Leary if it would work. I been hear lot problem with that one. It get hot then quit work correct. Make sure box is vent well so it won't get hot.

You can find it here (http://opengauge.org/mpguino/). I'm not sure about overheating, I've been into electronics since I was 12 years old and I will check into it. I agree that it is important to keep electronics cool, however, I will take a picture of it when I hook them up.

About oil, is there such a thing like "oil flush" like we do with coolant flush?

You can find it here (http://opengauge.org/mpguino/). I'm not sure about overheating, I've been into electronics since I was 12 years old and I will check into it. I agree that it is important to keep electronics cool, however, I will take a picture of it when I hook them up.

About oil, is there such a thing like "oil flush" like we do with coolant flush?



I be careful about oil flush sometime it knock tar sludge off and clogged oil pump's screen.


Only way is just change oil and drive long trip like highway for 100 miles would help little.


Just use synthetic oil you be fine.

I be careful about oil flush sometime it knock tar sludge off and clogged oil pump's screen.


Only way is just change oil and drive long trip like highway for 100 miles would help little.


Just use synthetic oil you be fine.

So the BEST way is to rebuild the engine (taking all gooey stuff off)?

So the BEST way is to rebuild the engine (taking all gooey stuff off)?



Yes but too big work. If you just remove valve cover and vacuum sludge that would be ok.

you could just soak with 2-3 gallons of diesel and leave for 1 week. That will dissolve sludge
then drain and put new oil then 100 miles later remove oil pan to clean sludge off oil pump's screen


That lot work it isn't worth to do. Just change oil and you be fine.


Lot people don't change until 10,000-70,000 miles:eek:

Nothing wrong with 10,000. Some new cars even specify that length. Recent Hondas with an intelligent oil life sensor will go 15,000 or more.

Of course, using a good oil helps, too.

I know a couple of members here who have installed the MPGuino (I helped with one of the installs myself) and haven't heard any issues of overheating?

The parts are a little fiddly but if you have electronics experience it shouldn't be hard to get done. Just be sure you have a good wiring diagram for your car! I had a little trouble determining the right wire to use for an injector signal in Mike's car. :o

Those images are pretty much self-explanatory from Haynes book for 1993 Toyota Camry:


For Injector (1st Injector) in green:

http://hizost.com/f/za4 (http://hizost.com/)

http://hizost.com/f/zac (http://hizost.com/)

For VSS in yellow:

http://hizost.com/f/zae (http://hizost.com/)

http://hizost.com/f/za5 (http://hizost.com/)

Therefore connecting to VSS this way:

http://hizost.com/f/za2 (http://hizost.com/)

And INJ this way:

http://hizost.com/f/zag (http://hizost.com/)

Well aren't you lucky to have it so easy!

I LOVE Electronics. :)

Looks good to me!

The problem I had with Mike's car was that there were multiple wires coded with the same coloring in the foot-well where I preferred to tap into them. The first one I tapped apparently wasn't the right one, but the next worked just fine. I was relieved because there were 3 with the same color code! :eek:

Looks good to me!

The problem I had with Mike's car was that there were multiple wires coded with the same coloring in the foot-well where I preferred to tap into them. The first one I tapped apparently wasn't the right one, but the next worked just fine. I was relieved because there were 3 with the same color code! :eek:

Are you familiar with multimeter (ohmeter or "Buzz" mode) when checking for connectivity? Use long wire with alligator clip on both ends (to go around from ECU to engine area) connect that end to 1st Injector and other end connected to the Multimeter (either black or red). Now use the other side of Multimeter to probe for the right wire.

I did try that Scott, but the lines were going through some relays and I didn't want to have the 12V connected when playing with the wires.

UGH!!! Relays -- *groan*....

Ok, here is my homework to complete before MPGuino comes in. I'm trying to be as well-prepared as I can possibly can.

Is there anywhere I can look for to find this info so I can eliminate the guesswork out when I install MPGuino?

Info needed|Data|Completed
Car Year Make Model:|Toyota Camry 1993|*
Engine:|V6 3.0 L|*
Transmission|Automatic 4-spd|*
VSS (count/mile)||
usec/gal||
Inj DelayuS||
Notes||

There are some settings listed for select vehicles somewhere out there on the web (the mpguino wiki perhaps?)

Is this link (http://www.rostra.com/pdf/Form4429A.pdf) what you meant (coming from wiki)?

Nope. This is the one I was thinking of:

http://ecomodder.com/wiki/index.php/MPGuino#Table_of_Car_Settings

My car isn't listed... hmmm... Maybe I should call Toyota and ask?

Don't know if you get much, but no harm in trying. I'd say start with either 8000 or 8208 for VSS. You'll know pretty quick (as in 2-3 miles) if its right or not. Injector pulse width is WAY harder...

It would be a lot easier if I could use oscillator.

The connectors are completed, now to install female part into car!

http://hizost.com/f/zaw (http://hizost.com/)

http://hizost.com/f/za8 (http://hizost.com/)

http://hizost.com/f/zak (http://hizost.com/)

http://hizost.com/f/zaf (http://hizost.com/)

Clean work! :thumbs_up:

Thanks Sean.

Here is the mock-up (image was edited with GIMP) of where plug will be mounted (behind the steering wheel). The brown part is part of original Toyota Camry, I plan to drill a hole in it to mount the male part to it.

Any feedback? (maybe it might obstruct me, or anything or you got better idea?)

http://hizost.com/f/za6 (http://hizost.com/)

That's a better location than the obd-II ports most of use are using. ;) Those are up under the kick panel, near the driver's shins. You have to be careful the cable doesn't get in the way of operating the pedals. That should not be a problem for yours.

I like it, but may I suggest a location on the other side of the steering wheel where your cable won't interfere with the ignition switch?

Good Morning Everyone!

My last TANK:

417.4 Miles
13.159 Gallons
31.719 MPG
166.94 of combined EPA on THIS Tank


Which brings up my OVERALL to 150.22%, finally got "Elite Hypermiler" title! :Banane06:

Already mounted connector to the car dash (thanks Sean for your idea, I do not have other panel to mount to on the other side) but not yet connected to the car wires. MPGuino should arrive sometime this week. Can't wait for it already!

Altered work commute route this morning, eliminated 6 hills one way to work (totaling 12 round trip), from original route (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=US-40+E&daddr=Unknown+road+to:Old+Telegraph+Rd+to:39.443882,-75.764122+to:Middletown+Warwick+Rd&hl=en&geocode=Feo-XAIdbvh6-w%3BFYiJWgIdyLd6-w%3BFbdyWgId1Ll7-w%3B%3BFdrUWQIdKz18-w&mra=dpe&mrcr=0&mrsp=3&sz=12&via=1,2,3&sll=39.462704,-75.72876&sspn=0.150818,0.338173&ie=UTF8&ll=39.52417,-75.799484&spn=0.301369,0.676346&z=11) to new route (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=US-40+E&daddr=Augustine+Herman+Hwy%2FMD-213+S+to:Unknown+road+to:Choptank+Rd+to:39.461909,-75.739746+to:Middletown+Warwick+Rd&geocode=Feo-XAIdbvh6-w%3BFeVhWwIdZFB7-w%3BFTqLWgIdvLV6-w%3BFXW6WgId1DV8-w%3B%3BFdrUWQIdKz18-w&hl=en&mra=dpe&mrcr=0&mrsp=4&sz=13&via=1,2,3,4&sll=39.46774,-75.760345&sspn=0.075404,0.169086&ie=UTF8&ll=39.497153,-75.867462&spn=0.301486,0.676346&z=11) which is approximately 1.6 miles more. Since I have no MPG gauge to report, result will be noted on tank refill.

Red is the original route, and blue is the altered route. Circles are where hills are located.

http://hizost.com/f/zz0 (http://hizost.com/)

MPGuino arrived!!! Connected to the female part of wire:

http://hizost.com/f/zz3 (http://hizost.com/)

http://hizost.com/f/zzd (http://hizost.com/)

Now on to connect the male side to car's wires!!

Still have not wired the car yet (rainy day yesterday, possibly today too) and I am currently looking for enclosure to enclose MPGuino. So far I found non-working EtheFast 10/100 1-Port Printserver, took electronic board out of it and currently am cutting the plastic part for display. So far it seems too big, but will get the job done. This will only be temporary until I can find better enclosure.

http://g-ec2.images-amazon.com/images/I/41R6YCSV3WL._printer-shop-and-accessories_.jpg

8. "EOC mi/Idle gal":
CE Current EOC Miles | G Current Idle Gallons
TE Tank EOC Miles | G Tank Idle Gallons


What is EOC?

Engine Off Coasting. Ecomodder lingo, meaning the same as the term Forced Auto Stop we use here.

Aha!! Thanks.

Side note to that. Here on CleanMPG "FAS" is used for both moving and non-moving times when gas engine is shut down. Over on EcoModder, FAS is for non-moving engine shut down time. So, in the situation of "approaching a red light with gas engine off" here's the terminology difference:

CleanMPG: FAS up to the light and turn on when it goes green.

EcoModder: EOC up to light and maintain FAS until it goes green.

*shrug* whatever works for your brain. The above is what works for mine.

Side note to that. Here on CleanMPG "FAS" is used for both moving and non-moving times when gas engine is shut down. Over on EcoModder, FAS is for non-moving engine shut down time. So, in the situation of "approaching a red light with gas engine off" here's the terminology difference:

CleanMPG: FAS up to the light and turn on when it goes green.

EcoModder: EOC up to light and maintain FAS until it goes green.

*shrug* whatever works for your brain. The above is what works for mine.

The light blub is lit, thanks!

Looks like I am achieving 30 MPG Average (approaching that is) and my goal completed.

My new goal: 32.5 MPG AVERAGE.

Which means I will need to:

1.) Improve my DWB more aggressively (problem with cars behind me.)
2.) Enabling MPGuino (still not connected yet) and configure to match.
3.) Study and analyze my Camry using MPGuino, finding sweet spots and utilitize them.
4.) Find ways to start P&G in all aspects.
5.) Take a LOWEST RPM, HIGHEST GEAR trip and find the HIGHEST MPG that it is capable of doing.

I tapped my MPGuino wires into 1st INJ and VSS already. I am currently having hard time trying to find unswitched power line to tap 12V wire into. Been searching endlessly online trying to find the wire between fusible fuse and fuse box, my book clearly showed it on schematic but not visually show where it is. I'm trying to wire it near where I tapped INJ and VSS.

Scott, I wired it in on the hot side of one of Mike's main fuses in the engine compartment fuse box by pulling the fuse and pinching it in the contact area when the fuse was replaced.

Scott, I wired it in on the hot side of one of Mike's main fuses in the engine compartment fuse box by pulling the fuse and pinching it in the contact area when the fuse was replaced.

So that means I will have to separate the ribbon wires to allow two wires to go in the hood area? That is something that I wish to avoid.

Hi, Scott -- you'd only need one as I'm sure you could find a good ground in the cabin somewhere. I didn't use ribbon cable and did try avoid going to the engine compartment but couldn't find any hot wires inside the car with the key out of the ignition. :(

Hi, Scott -- you'd only need one as I'm sure you could find a good ground in the cabin somewhere. I didn't use ribbon cable and did try avoid going to the engine compartment but couldn't find any hot wires inside the car with the key out of the ignition. :(

Looks like I will have to swallow my pride and go in the engine area to have it connected to the fusible fuse.

You shouldn't need to. The battery line for the radio is "always on" 12V, otherwise you'd lose your preset stations. Try finding that one?

You shouldn't need to. The battery line for the radio is "always on" 12V, otherwise you'd lose your preset stations. Try finding that one?

I'll check that one out, thanks!

Ah... Mike's car doesn't have a radio. :o

MPGuino is up and running, it's AWESOME and informative! It had me going up to 32.9 MPG even when MPG is not correct (60 MPG, I wish)

Now here is the info:

Function|Actual|MPGuino
Tank MPG|32.959|60.91
Miles|323.5|322.62
Gallons|9.815|5.30


Function|current setting|adjustment
VSS Pulses/Mile|8208|8186
Msec/Gal|300000000|161996943
Pulses/2 revs|3|
Timout (microsec)|420000000|
Tank/Gal * 1000|10300|
Inj Delay|500|
Weight|2400|
Scratchpad?(odo?)|0|
VSS Delay ms|2|
Inj Trg|0|
Metric|0|


Will update as I figure out the solutions.

Congratulations. Now you can start refining your best acceleration rates, DWL, and glide points.

Congratulations. Now you can start refining your best acceleration rates, DWL, and glide points.

Exactly!! I just had a vision....

Imagine the shore, wavering waters...

When a small wave is coming, you can see it coming before impact, then after it hit, the water start to pull back for next small wave...

I started to notice that on MPGuino on VERY slight incline and declines, then after that I started to visualize and to predict. So that means I can do P&G on those slopes?

Yes, DWL improved vastly, while going up on the Bridge, I changed the way I DWL, originally it was set to eat up gas, but problem is, that bridge has very high angle, I had to speed up a lot more in order to maintain DWL. Before MPGuino was adjusted, before bridge: 58.4 MPG, AFTER bridge: 59.2 MPG (going up 55 MPH before going incline.

About acceleration rates, I notced that big time after I readjusted MPGuino, now trying to learn that new boundary.

Current MPG from gas station (for .5 gal refill after mpguino calibration) to my friend's house is 34.2 MPG. Whoa, that had me aggressively control my acceleration rates....
:bananalama:

You bet, Scott. All my significant mpg gains seem to come on downhill glides. On my bread and butter drive to Home Depot, Wal-Mart, Trader Joe's and the mall, I'll typically gain .1=.5 mpg on level ground glides, and 1.0-2.5 mpg on downhill glides. I've managed 80 mpg for 30 miles on the downhill from Truckee, CA to Verdi, NV, and 75 mpg for 40 miles to Reno.

Finding the best acceleration rate is tough with an automatic transmission, because the best BSFC rate for an engine almost always drops the transmission into a lower and fuel-wasting gear.

Score! It'll be a great critter once you get it dialed in all the way.

On a trip from my friend's house to my home I was able to do 35.22 / 45.76 miles (185% of EPA)!!

http://hizost.com/f/zzp (http://hizost.com/)

Round trip to Magnolia DE from Elkton, MD

:Banane57:

Elkton, MD -> Smyrna, DE (Wawa) [using hypermile scenic route]
36.08 MPG
41.86 miles!!!!!

:Banane57:

Smyrna, DE (Wawa) -> Magnolia, DE
34.73 MPG
20.73 miles

Magnolia, DE -> Elkton, MD [straight home]
34 MPG
64.66 miles

Nice work, Scott! Now you can see what I meant when I said you would really be able to tweak once you could see the moment by moment effects of your actions. :)

Nice work, Scott! Now you can see what I meant when I said you would really be able to tweak once you could see the moment by moment effects of your actions. :)

INDEED! Thanks so much for everyone help in my effort to improve!

I applaud all your work! I also hate you. :D :p

Question:

What is the term of "steepness" of a bridge, is it a grade or angle?

How do I determine the value of "Steepness" of a bridge?

Drove from Elkton, MD to Frederica, DE for Mother's day (my wife), did 35.32 MPG @ 61.91 Miles (Tank MPG was 33.46 at that time)

Function|Orig Actual|Orig MPGuino|Curr Actual|Curr MPGuino
Tank MPG|32.959|60.91|31.157|32.8
Miles|323.5|322.62|440|440.15
Gallons|9.815|5.30|14.122|13.40


Function|current setting|Orig adjustment|Curr adjustment
VSS Pulses/Mile|8208|8186|8188
Msec/Gal|300000000|161996943|153714703
Pulses/2 revs|3||
Timout (microsec)|420000000||
Tank/Gal * 1000|10300||
Inj Delay|500||
Weight|2400||
Scratchpad?(odo?)|0||
VSS Delay ms|2||
Inj Trg|0||
Metric|0||

Nice work, Scott! :thumbs_up:

I'll bet you couldn't imagine driving your car without the MPGuino now... am I right? ;)

Nice work, Scott! :thumbs_up:

I'll bet you couldn't imagine driving your car without the MPGuino now... am I right? ;)

Bingo! (poke your nose) You got that one right baby!

Found new recalibrate values, going to assign them today after work, will test mpguino on the next tank.

Are there any members out there using Automatic Transmission? Can you tell me your experience, tips or recommendations?

I have an auto, but I don't think I can give you much more advice than what I have.

I have an auto, but I don't think I can give you much more advice than what I have.

Can you tell me what you do, perhaps what you do might help me?

From this article "Fast accelerating burns more gas (=money!) (http://www.hypermiling.com/acceleration-costs-fuel.html)"

When you start moving after stop at a red light or a stop sign, *and* if you are in a car with an automatic transmission, give an extra second of time between when you release the brake pedal and when you hit the gas pedal. (Dont do this with manual transmissions or you could cause an accident though!)

As you probably know, an automatic transmission car will start moving very slowly on its own with no brake applied. You can use this to your advantage, as a form of starting out slowly from a stop, even if you only do it for a second. Then once your car is in motion - however slowly it may be going - you can start accelerating with the gas pedal.

Why this helps: It takes a LOT more energy to get a stopped object moving rather than to get a moving object moving a bit faster (friction forces are involved here). Letting an Automatic transmission car start moving *slowly* under its own very small acceleration -- even just for a second -- will allow you to start using the gas pedal while the car is already in motion. (Note... this of course doesn't work on hills. Use it on flat or downgrade roadways.)

Take the things you read at that site with a grain of salt. The real meat is found here.

Here's what I do on the Odyssey (V6 Auto) (that comes to mind right now):
- When accelerating, try to keep the rpm below 2000. Sometimes it helps to lift slightly for a moment and then get back on the gas. It drops the rpm and reengages at that lower point.
- Balance that out with moderate acceleration, not completely glacial. Somewhere in the middle is best.
- Once it locks in at 45 mph, try to keep it above that point.
- I'm constantly shifting into and out of neutral. Drive for uphills and short semi-pulses, neutral for downhills. It's a momentum equation, and I like to use Drive only when I need to add some more momentum.
- If you are coming to a stop, use techniques in this order: Neutral, DFCO, FAS. If you can anticipate the stop, shift to neutral early. If it's unexpected, or on a downhill, shift down to get DFCO engine braking. Then, at 20 mph or so as you reach the stop, FAS or neutral as desired.

Take the things you read at that site with a grain of salt. The real meat is found here.

Here's what I do on the Odyssey (V6 Auto) (that comes to mind right now):
- When accelerating, try to keep the rpm below 2000. Sometimes it helps to lift slightly for a moment and then get back on the gas. It drops the rpm and reengages at that lower point.
- Balance that out with moderate acceleration, not completely glacial. Somewhere in the middle is best.
- Once it locks in at 45 mph, try to keep it above that point.
- I'm constantly shifting into and out of neutral. Drive for uphills and short semi-pulses, neutral for downhills. It's a momentum equation, and I like to use Drive only when I need to add some more momentum.
- If you are coming to a stop, use techniques in this order: Neutral, DFCO, FAS. If you can anticipate the stop, shift to neutral early. If it's unexpected, or on a downhill, shift down to get DFCO engine braking. Then, at 20 mph or so as you reach the stop, FAS or neutral as desired.

What would you do if you are stopped at red light on bottom of hill? Elkton do not have FE traffic system in place. AS soon as I leave green light at bottom of hill and on the next hill there is ALWAYS a red light, gas killer.

Ok, after doing some serious reading, looks like I will need to experiment on Speed Effects on FE, running with CC and without, log in the mpg for each mph performed (30, 40, 50, 60 mph zones) and post the findings.

Then experiment on Acceleration Effects on FE for RPM of 1,900, 2,100 and 2,300 then post the findings.


That probably will help me to understand my car better and to hit the sweet spots to improve the FE of my car. From there, I would figure out a way to better use it in the hilly terrain that I am in.

What would you do if you are stopped at red light on bottom of hill? Elkton do not have FE traffic system in place. AS soon as I leave green light at bottom of hill and on the next hill there is ALWAYS a red light, gas killer.

First, you sigh. There's one of those on our main route into town.

I move the rpm threshold up a bit, so maybe 2200 rpm. Fiddle with the pedal to try and bring that down, and curse when it doesn't. This road of mine is 3+3 lanes and 45 mph. I'll usually bring it up to 30 or 35 and then hold it there.

Another place, we have a stop and right turn onto a 55 mph highway, uphill for nearly a mile. I use the 2200 rpm mark and bring it up high enough to 50 mph to invoke the TC lockup (higher than 45 on a hill, thanks to the "hill control" computer). Then allow it to slowly drift back down to 45 as I reach the crest.

Ok, after doing some serious reading, looks like I will need to experiment on Speed Effects on FE, running with CC and without, log in the mpg for each mph performed (30, 40, 50, 60 mph zones) and post the findings.

Then experiment on Acceleration Effects on FE for RPM of 1,900, 2,100 and 2,300 then post the findings.


That probably will help me to understand my car better and to hit the sweet spots to improve the FE of my car. From there, I would figure out a way to better use it in the hilly terrain that I am in.

In my experience, with an automatic, lower is "always" better. There's a point where you can go too low, but an auto won't allow you to reach that point. So, within the constraints of what the auto will allow, go lower.

I try to avoid breaking the 2000 mark unless, like above, I'm having to accelerate up to speed while climbing a hill. I usually try to keep below that mark in my Civic, and your V6 has probably twice the power output.

Thanks Andrew, I'll take that into consideration.

I added info to Table of Car Settings (http://ecomodder.com/wiki/index.php/MPGuino#Table_of_Car_Settings) for 1993 Toyota Camry 3.0 V6 Automatic Transmission. Share if you know of anyone that uses that car!

Andrew, I tried your advice and I found them extremely useful. While accelerating, keeping at 2k rpm until destination mph really gave me the "Best acceleration" rate without injuring the mileage. I noticed that I was impatient in last few trips, resulting into lower current mpg's. This time, I slowed down, controlled my acceleration rate from stop or from lowest point of P&G. While going uphill, I set the minimum to 28 MPG (meaning if it go any lower than 28 MPG, I lay back off gas pedal to maintain 28 MPG until i crest over the hill and return back to the MPG that i was maintaining. I noticed a big changes and I now have the insight to improve.

Thanks again Andrew and everyone else as well!

;) If your worst instant reading is 28, your average cannot possibly be lower than that point, right? :D

;) If your worst instant reading is 28, your average cannot possibly be lower than that point, right? :D

Unfortunately yes. Bridge is too steep with hill just next to it, it is hard to speed up after going uphill then approach the bridge. I had to do 28 instant MPG while maintaining 32+ mpg average.

Function|Orig Actual|Orig MPGuino|Curr Actual|Curr MPGuino|3rd Actual|3rd MPGuino
Tank MPG|32.959|60.91|31.157|32.8|33.7|31.59
Miles|323.5|322.62|440|440.15|435.9|436.02
Gallons|9.815|5.30|14.122|13.40|12.911|13.8


Function|current setting|Orig adjustment|Curr adjustment|3rd adjustment
VSS Pulses/Mile|8208|8186|8188|8190
Msec/Gal|300000000|161996943|153714703|164298884
Pulses/2 revs|3|||
Timout (microsec)|420000000|||
Tank/Gal * 1000|10300|||
Inj Delay|500|||
Weight|2400|||
Scratchpad?(odo?)|0|||
VSS Delay ms|2|||
Inj Trg|0|||
Metric|0|||

Will figure out VSS Pulses/Mile and Msec/Gal, had to put it here to get over with at friend's house.

I am pondering altering the commute route again...

Plan A (Current) is 23.5 miles, 42 minutes and 6 stops
Plan B (alternate) is 26.7 miles, 38 minutes and 3 stops

Would 3 extra miles be worth it? Going to experiment and report any difference.

Any feedback would be appreciated.

Here is the image of map that I created using GIMP:

http://hizost.com/f/z3e (http://hizost.com/)

Depends upon how much fuel you use.

I would guess that since your car is an auto, the route with fewer stops would be better. That Stop Stop Stop Stop segment has to be a killer!

I agree, though, on calculating the fuel used as the final measure. I've got several options, and the best two come out equal on fuel, so I take the longer one which gives me better mpg.

New route is a big improvement! LESS hills, traffic and stops, higher mph average and ability to work up on mileage.

Nice going, Scott! :thumbs_up:

Never stop looking for ways to further optimize your route -- I've recently made changes to mine after nearly 2 years of no deviations in order to accommodate a greater volume of traffic.

Looks like my MPGuino is finally stabilizing, might expect one more calibration to get it just right.

The cold temperatures is impairing my hypermiling skills in last few days, yesterday was a lot better, was able to do 34.32 MPG on the way to meeting.

About engine heater -- How long will it take to heat up before I use the car? Is there any engine heater that you recommend online that I can look at?

Any testimonials about them?

I'd recommend about 2hrs running the EBH before you drive. I'd go straight for the frost plug coolant type engine block heater rather than radiator hose or pad type heaters.

I have an EBH in both my Elantra and the Insight... they help quite a bit and I use them year 'round.

Do you use timer to turn Ebh on every morning?

How long and what wattage, Sean?

Linux, remember that you've got 3 times the displacement and twice as many cylinders as Sean. ;)

How long and what wattage, Sean?

Linux, remember that you've got 3 times the displacement and twice as many cylinders as Sean. ;)

I'm aware of it. =) Looking for starting point.

Yes, I use a timer for both cars and both have a 400W EBH.

I'm contemplating this 1999 Chevrolet Metro, so I can use it for work commute:

Craigs list, 1999 Chevrolet Metro (http://baltimore.craigslist.org/cto/1714875778.html)

Do anyone own Chevrolet Metro like this one? I need a feedback about that car.

Dale? I think that was your cue. ;)

I'm contemplating this 1999 Chevrolet Metro, so I can use it for work commute:

Craigs list, 1999 Chevrolet Metro (http://baltimore.craigslist.org/cto/1714875778.html)

Do anyone own Chevrolet Metro like this one? I need a feedback about that car.

I called the owner and asked two questions:

"Is it a 3 or 4 cylinder?" and "Does the AC work?"

It is a 4 cylinder and the AC doesn't work.

Not saying that it isn't worth owning if it were cheaper, although with a little patience you can find a 1997 and up 3 cylinder 5 speed with a working A/C for about $1500 or less around here in NC, maybe in Maryland it would be $1800 or less, I don't know your prices.

I bought my 97 3cyl 5 speed hatchback from PA for $800 on Ebay 5 years ago. A 96 Metro 4cyl 5 speed sedan from a local car lot for $800. Two Metro convertibles 3cyl 5 speeds, in one weekend for $600 and $500 (1992 and 1993 respectively). I just bought a 95 3cyl 5 speed hatch for $250 (no title) last month.

If you need specifics on what to look for in a Metro you can PM me with your phone number and I'll be happy to give you the key points. If you still want that 99 Metro I think that $1200 would be a fair price if you have to recharge and/or fix the AC. There are things that you'll want to look/listen for when test driving before you open your wallet.

Great cars if your not concerned with little things like prestige, torque, horsepower, intimidating other drivers, being laughed at by teenagers, outrun by skateboarders, mopeds and turtles...

I'm currently getting about 46mpg in the city, driving at posted speed limits with mine. And wouldn't sell it for $4000 unless I could find another one for $600.

:D - Dale

I called the owner and asked two questions:

"Is it a 3 or 4 cylinder?" and "Does the AC work?"

It is a 4 cylinder and the AC doesn't work.

Not saying that it isn't worth owning if it were cheaper, although with a little patience you can find a 1997 and up 3 cylinder 5 speed with a working A/C for about $1500 or less around here in NC, maybe in Maryland it would be $1800 or less, I don't know your prices.

I bought my 97 3cyl 5 speed hatchback from PA for $800 on Ebay 5 years ago. A 96 Metro 4cyl 5 speed sedan from a local car lot for $800. Two Metro convertibles 3cyl 5 speeds, in one weekend for $600 and $500 (1992 and 1993 respectively). I just bought a 95 3cyl 5 speed hatch for $250 (no title) last month.

If you need specifics on what to look for in a Metro you can PM me with your phone number and I'll be happy to give you the key points. If you still want that 99 Metro I think that $1200 would be a fair price if you have to recharge and/or fix the AC. There are things that you'll want to look/listen for when test driving before you open your wallet.

Great cars if your not concerned with little things like prestige, torque, horsepower, intimidating other drivers, being laughed at by teenagers, outrun by skateboarders, mopeds and turtles...

I'm currently getting about 46mpg in the city, driving at posted speed limits with mine. And wouldn't sell it for $4000 unless I could find another one for $600.

:D - Dale

I just now privmsg'd you. =)

Thanks Dale for the call!

Anytime. (before 2AM, after 12PM Eastern) :D - Dale

Thanks for stepping up to the plate, Dale. :D:thumbs_up:

Dale,

I live in steep hills terrain and think that 3 cylinders might not be suitable for that. I might be wrong? I'm battling whether to get a 3 or 4 cylinder Metro.

Dale,

I live in steep hills terrain and think that 3 cylinders might not be suitable for that. I might be wrong? I'm battling whether to get a 3 or 4 cylinder Metro.

That's what downshifting is for. ;)

Seriously though, either model would be a serious improvement in mileage for you.

Another option if you have a bit more money is a late model Toyota Echo 5spd. That would be a much more modern (safer!) vehicle.

Sean,

I would LOVE to. I am looking for TEMPORARY car to use until we can save up enough to buy a Toyota Prius. Metro is the cheapest miser around. If I can find Echo for cheap, I would go for it.

Thanks for the advice.


Scott

I would suggest the Echo as well.

They're reliable, fuel efficient vehicles... Unfortunately for you, they have great resale value. I still say go for the Echo.

I am in a similar boat... I got the Yaris to pass the time until I get a "real" job... At that time, I'll be looking to get something twice as efficient if it's out in upcoming years.

Matt

Metro with 3 cylinder= hill it isn't best. It would go from 65 to 20-30 mph on normal size hill.

I used to have 94 geo tracker with 4 cylinder/ 5 speed. Let me say it was great on flat but hill it drop from 60 to 30 mph and it was downshift to 3 gears to keep go go. Hill were 20-25% steep. It was 2 miles of steep. That one reason I bought F250 with V8.


What about Smart you could get brand new one for only $13K They get 41-45 mpg stock.

I just now realize that I'm doing the WRONG thing.

I need to identify my current location, where I work and select the APPROPRIATE gas saving vehicle for my needs.

Let's identify my current status:

1.) I live in hilly area and HIGH graded bridge.
2.) Had recent medical disaster two years ago (financially ruined)
3.) Want to save money for a huge down payment for a car or to buy in cash.
4.) Need a temporary replacement.

Since metro car isn't suitable for HIGH graded bridge, I'm not sure about Toyota ECHO, will it be able to handle high grade hills/bridges? Will not be able to buy new car in a while.

I am open for any ideas, suggestions or advices in locating a RIGHT temporary car that SAVES gas with 2,500 dollars or less value (to pay in cash).

Thanks.

Scott, we had a member with a 5spd Echo who drove to quite good numbers through mountainous Kentucky. You wouldn't have any issues with that vehicle handling your hills. He posted a number of videos of his drives on YouTube... he left on poor terms with this site but I'll PM you a link to one of those videos. I wouldn't take everything he says in the videos as definitive without checking here first, but he did get good results on those pretty steep grades and he never said anything about a lack of power that I can recall.

Scott, we had a member with a 5spd Echo who drove to quite good numbers through mountainous Kentucky. You wouldn't have any issues with that vehicle handling your hills. He posted a number of videos of his drives on YouTube... he left on poor terms with this site but I'll PM you a link to one of those videos. I wouldn't take everything he says in the videos as definitive without checking here first, but he did get good results on those pretty steep grades and he never said anything about a lack of power that I can recall.

Thanks Sean. I will have someone to interpret for me when I check that youtube out.

My car is similarly powered and weighted as the echo, and it can handle any grade desired. I've taken it over the Rockies a couple times. I don't think you'd lack anything with that car, or any other comparable, like a civic, corolla, sentra, etc. The Echo is the best of the bunch for mpg, though.

My car is similarly powered and weighted as the echo, and it can handle any grade desired. I've taken it over the Rockies a couple times. I don't think you'd lack anything with that car, or any other comparable, like a civic, corolla, sentra, etc. The Echo is the best of the bunch for mpg, though.

I've owned 3 Toyota Corollas in past (2 Manual and 1 Auto), averaged 40 MPG on both manuals before I heard of the word "hypermiler".

Toyota Corolla 1980 E70, 1982 Hatchback and 1997 CE (auto). Very reliable. My last Corolla (1997) was totaled by uninsured guy... *growl*

I also grew up in Toyota Corolla station wagon, travelling from Texas to New York for a month-long vacations annually when I was a child. I always loved Corolla, but for most of my life I've been dreaming for Toyota Camry, now that I got one. I love it, I don't care if it is a fsp it's my car.

Since Toyota Prius came out I didn't really pay attention to it much until last year when I started to focus into cars that ACTUALLY do save gas. Trying to figure out a way to expand my gasoline budget by increasing miles per gallon.

I'll just go ahead and browse around on craigslist, looking for a perfect temporary car until I can afford new Toyota Prius:

2003 or older Toyota Prius, 1st Gen Honda Insight, Toyota Echo, Toyota Corolla, Honda Civic.

I don't know how set you are in brands, but try out an Elantra. :) Preferrably a 2004 to 2006; they got variable valve timing on the intake in 2004. Available with an auto (like mine) or in a 5MT. Great MPG's, and in the $3-$5k range.

Nevyn,

I'll give them a try.

The Ford Focus can be easily pushed to insane mileage, but not so much with the Chevy Cobalt early years. Chrysler products, forget it.

Maybe a Kia Rio5 if you can find one and like hatches. Sube's aren't know for great MPG but come in all shapes and sizes.

Can't think of anything else at the moment.

Well, if you are talking Elantras, the 2000-2003 models aren't so bad either if equipped with a manual transmission. ;)

You might get one like mine cheaper than an Echo, but it won't top out as high. I've had mine up as high as 77mpg (had it at 80mpg that time before the last 3mi gauntlet of lights on the way to my house :rolleyes:), but I don't have constant steep hills.

Agreed. You'll probably find a wider than expected price gap between the 03's and 04's if you look towards Hyundai, because of the change in engine.

Is Chevrolet Aveo (not really gas efficient), any good?

OH GAWD STAY AWAY! It's a mal-adjusted Daewoo that sits way too high and has HORRIBLE wind shear at any speed over 40 MPH. My mother-in-law has an 06 sedan. Even my wife hates it. I can't get MIL to check mileage on it, or even check tire pressure. But she's getting what I'd say is 28-32 MPG as a nasty, nasty driver with the 4AT.

Let say it was ok it get only 30 mpg. You can get 40 mpg if you don't use ac and empty load.


But you be scared to death when you try on highway with lot semi truck pass you.

Tires is so tiny that they are easily to get flat from pothole and nails.


I would keep Toyota Camry until it died.

You should see my "tiny" tires. ;)

I've been following along, and the only other options for fuel efficient and low purchase price (that I don't remember seeing mentioned before) would be:

- Geo/Chevy Prizm - a rebadged Toyota Corolla that sells for less because of the badge. I've seen some online that are fairly cheap - either because they're sun-faded and peeling or they have high miles but are well maintained. You have experience with Corollas so you know that there's only one thing that kills them - years of absolute neglect.

- Hyundai Accent (MY2000 and newer) - cheaper to buy than the Elantra and marginally higher EPA. When looking for an Accent, try to stick with the 5MT because I have read online that the automatics tend to lose reverse after about 120k miles. I remember seeing a 2000 AT Accent locally on Craigslist in beautiful shape with about 130k but many new parts going for $800 - needs transmission - no reverse/forward is perfect. I was thinking of buying it for $500 and using it as an around town cruiser and maybe some "shopping cart bowling" over at the local food store parking lot (the 7-10 split is difficult to pick up with a narrow car). Reverse? I'd just push it backward, then start it and drive away. Who needs reverse anyway?

- Saturn SL/SL-1 - prices are trickling downward because these cars sold from 1991-2002 and so are now at least 8 years old, and they are now orphans since Spring Hill is now building Chevy FSPs. There is one Saturn SL 5MT owner here who gets unbelievable FE from the car, and parts (repair/maintenance) remain low in cost.

With the bridge you mention that seems to require more ground clearance - check the wheelbase to ground clearance ratio relative to your Camry, if the Camry can handle it. For every inch of ground clearance, a shorter wheelbase means the car is less likely to scrape underneath at the midpoint. And depending on the car, you can always choose taller tires to raise the car a half inch or so if it just barely makes it.

I've been following along, and the only other options for fuel efficient and low purchase price (that I don't remember seeing mentioned before) would be:

- Geo/Chevy Prizm - a rebadged Toyota Corolla that sells for less because of the badge. I've seen some online that are fairly cheap - either because they're sun-faded and peeling or they have high miles but are well maintained. You have experience with Corollas so you know that there's only one thing that kills them - years of absolute neglect.


I heartily agree about Corollas, they're very reliable!


- Hyundai Accent (MY2000 and newer) - cheaper to buy than the Elantra and marginally higher EPA. When looking for an Accent, try to stick with the 5MT because I have read online that the automatics tend to lose reverse after about 120k miles. I remember seeing a 2000 AT Accent locally on Craigslist in beautiful shape with about 130k but many new parts going for $800 - needs transmission - no reverse/forward is perfect. I was thinking of buying it for $500 and using it as an around town cruiser and maybe some "shopping cart bowling" over at the local food store parking lot (the 7-10 split is difficult to pick up with a narrow car). Reverse? I'd just push it backward, then start it and drive away. Who needs reverse anyway?


Happened to my friend's wife, felt so bad for her!


- Saturn SL/SL-1 - prices are trickling downward because these cars sold from 1991-2002 and so are now at least 8 years old, and they are now orphans since Spring Hill is now building Chevy FSPs. There is one Saturn SL 5MT owner here who gets unbelievable FE from the car, and parts (repair/maintenance) remain low in cost.


I'll check them out. Thanks.


With the bridge you mention that seems to require more ground clearance - check the wheelbase to ground clearance ratio relative to your Camry, if the Camry can handle it. For every inch of ground clearance, a shorter wheelbase means the car is less likely to scrape underneath at the midpoint. And depending on the car, you can always choose taller tires to raise the car a half inch or so if it just barely makes it.

Nah, I'll leave them as is. Thanks.

My current highest in segment MPG:
35.75 MPG (188.15% of EPA)
23.96 Miles

Finally learned to do High Speed Pulse & Glide with a lot of patience!

Way to go, Scott!! :flag:

My Abilene's life mpg average has finally reached to 30 MPG!

Current goal: 32.5 MPG AVERAGE.

I couldn't believe how far I've went since my first 26.35 mpg tank!
:woot:


Latest Status:

38.05 mpg - 26.83 miles| commute|200.26% of EPA
49.14 mpg/3.12 miles| best segment|258.63% of EPA
33.76 mpg/435.9 miles| best tank|177.68% of EPA
31.2 mpg average| FE Challenge|164.21% of EPA


Currently looking for used Toyota Echo 5sp monster.

Great numbers Scott, Good job. If you ever get the chance to take a clinic with Wayne or one of the other ultra-hypermilers you'll see even bigger gains immediately. :D - Dale

Great numbers Scott, Good job. If you ever get the chance to take a clinic with Wayne or one of the other ultra-hypermilers you'll see even bigger gains immediately. :D - Dale

I would LOVE to do that!

My mpg average for "Abilene" has been dropped because my wife is using it. I'm thinking about creating a new mileage log: "Abilene for Wife" and move data from "Abilene" to that new log. Or is it best to leave "Abilene" alone, regardless of who use it? (grimaces)

I say leave it alone. Take the good with the bad. I have to include my wife's driving for my car if I want to be eligible for the challenge, otherwise it's not fair.

Nevyn, thanks for the advice.

Apart from the challenge, I don't see a problem with splitting it. As long as you are reporting the full numbers somewhere, it gives a true representation.

I'm contemplating this car from craigslist

1998 VOLKSWAGEN BEETLE DIESEL NEW TURBO 5 SPEED MANUAL NEW TURBO

http://philadelphia.craigslist.org/cto/1801332918.html

What is your opinion???

If you go for a VW diesel be very very sure you have either an extremely knowledgeable and honest dealer close by or a very supportive "shade tree mechanic" type group you can rely upon to support you in maintenance efforts. These vehicles can be very rewarding but expensive to maintain... especially if your mechanic doesn't know what he's doing. :(

Thanks Sean, I will check around. I have up to $4,000 to spend, I'm looking for a best manual car that saves the most MPG for work commute, If you see any car online that you recommend, please post them.

Thanks,


Scott

A Civic HX might be a better target to aim for if you can locate one?