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What do you put her in??? She is very aware of the cost of gas (she has an 18 yr old sister). She says she wants something very fuel efficient, but I am hesitent to put her in a small car. Automobile accidents are the # 1 killer of people under 21. My oldest daughter drove a 94 Toyota Tersel with single driver's airbag. I liked the idea of an airbag, but put that car up against an SUV, and your still in trouble.

My thoughts are to put her in a Mercury Grand Marque or the like. Maybe a Lincoln Towncar. For a few thousand $$$ I can have her in a full size car, with antilock disc brakes, driver and passenger airbags, etc.

I was thinking of doing the research this weekend and putting together an article similar to Wayne's fuel efficient article, but for SAFETY as the primary consideration, followed by fuel efficiency as the second importantant factor.

How do you parents feel about putting your kids in small cars? When I drive through the student parking lot at my daughters high school, there are MANY small cars. I would never forgive myself if something happened to my daughter and I could have prevented it by placing her in a safer vehicle.

Andy

Don't be fooled into thinking that safety is a guarantee as size increases. The additional mass can help in a two vehicle accident but it really depends on how the vehicle was engineered. That said, I certainly agree that safety should be priority #1 for a first-time driver. I liked my first car, which was an ancient (and heavy) Volvo. It was good for two reasons: very safe considering its age and value, and it was slow enough that it would have been extremely difficult to do something stupid. (Trust me, I tried.)

How much money are we talking about spending? The previous generation Accord was available with side airbags, at least in the later years. (My '02 has them.) You would not want the V6 under any circumstances due to the transmission but I believe the I-4 autos have faired pretty well. You could spend anywhere from $5,000-$15000 depending on the year and condition. That vintage of Civic was also very safe considering its size, but the insurance rates can be prohibitive. The Subarus of this decade are like little tanks, though not nearly as efficient as one would like. (That's what kept me from buying one). My insurance broker recommended that I look at the Imprezza due to the very low injury claim rate. My younger brother drives a Legacy Outback wagon and it has been a very good car. It will do 30mpg on the highway in 4-cylinder trim.

Hi Andy:

___My first question would be does she really need a car? Placing a son/daughter on your insurance and letting them drive your own car in those rare times they may need to drive is one thing. Purchasing, maintaining, and insuring an automobile for a 16 year old is something altogether different. Accidents are the number one killer of our teenage children so would it not be best to limit their exposure by limiting their behind the wheel time to an absolute minimum? The reason our teenagers are in those accidents is more then likely distraction, not just lack of experience.

___If you decide she is going to drive, the IIHS and NHTSA have a great deal of info on safety ratings. Given the price of insurance for a top rated 8th gen Honda Civic, I would be inclined to consider a Honda Accord LX w/ Auto instead. Both vehicles are known for their great accident avoidance handling as well as their industry leading crash ratings. Since both now come with fronts, sides, and side curtains as std. and have some of the lowest TCO’s in their respective classes, it comes down to what you want to spend.

___On a similar note, I do not advocate any of the following stunts in the least but it does show how well an Accord in some cases handles far beyond what most would consider normal driving at over 120 mph in some portions of the vid as well as how tough an Accord is to roll.

Totally insane Accord pilot! (http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2641)

___Good Luck

___Wayne

I have the same issue coming up in a couple of years. My daughter is starting to talk about cars that she "wants". I emailed her the following url of a car for her: http://tinyurl.com/enrs6

She didn't like it. :Banane03:

I agree with Wayne. A Honda Accord should be a safe car for her.

http://www.carfax.com/teen_driving/Teen_Safety_Home.cfm has a lot of safety info on teen drivers.

In this day and age, size doesn't matter -- even when up against large SUVs.

What does matter is SIDE airbags -- which helps tremendously in a side collision, even with large vehicles. Many of the Korean brands, to keep up with the competition, has made the full compliment of safety standard on most/all of its passenger cars. For example, the Kia Spectra gets good FE (32 mixed as I have tested) and has a generous warranty + all the airbags you could need. New is around $12K.

Now for $2000 you might have to look for such a vehicle that's in good condition. Basically anything with side airbags, ABS, and preferably Stability Control will put less worry on your mind. When I look up used cars, I usually peruse Cars.com (http://www.cars.com) to see what's out on the market, and for how much. Side/Curtain airbags come at a premium, however.

A quick, advanced search in my area found:

An '02 Saturn L200 for $6K
A 2000 Nissan Maxima GLE for $6.5K
A '99 VW Passat GLS V6 for $8K

If these are out of the price range, I would advise against rear-wheel drive for a beginner, unless it has stability control (probably wouldn't be much cheaper than those listed above). Otherwise, check the NHTSA crash ratings for FWD-ers, and remember, the passenger airbag isn't going to help the driver. Good luck in your search!

RH77

Andy,

This is a good question. I can't blame you for picking a large sedan for your daughter. I did reckless things in high school like a lot of guys. Even if a parent has money, I just don't understand getting their daugher or son a brand new car when they are 16 - it's going to get old in a hurry.

I just want to put in a good word for Justin doing a 1.3L segment with less than two years of lifetime driving experience! I remember learning took awhile for me. Got frustrated when my Dad attempted to pop a crash course on me during a lunch break to learn to drive a Corvair with a manual - that car is different even with an automatic!

I think of driving in the 1970's in a town of 60,000 and compare it to the Dallas/Fort Worth area now and it's just a lot more challenging from a defensive driver's standpoint - just another reason I would not sink in a lot of money for a high school/college car.

I'm glad you are not considering this, but Keith Bradshier in his book mentions what is going to happen when older 6000-pound SUVs are handed to the kids. Driver inexperience (and maybe recklessness), vehicle starting to come apart - bad chemistry. Add to that a vehicle that clearly can't be driven like a sports car and can kill more people in a crash. :(

Side air bags and vehicle stability control were not offered in 2001 when I bought Prius. This is probably the only thing that could eventually make me want to trade out of that car. They are key safety features for any driver, not just the teens.

What is more particular to teens (meaning in general, not Andy's) is that their attention to driving and other aspects of good sense may become compromised when there are more of 'em in the car. Very hard to discuss with the youngins but you gotta try. Keeping them alive and whole until they get past this first danger zone of driving is indeed the highest priority.

DAS

Hi Andy:

___The more I think about this, the more I want to know if she really needs that car? Is there a bus to take her to and from school? A minimum wage job nowadays would not be able to touch her insurance, car payment, maintenance and fuel. Is you or your wife’s schedule flexible enough to bring her home from any after school activity she may be involved in? If she wants to ride around with friends, bad move. I can think of a thousand reasons not to give a teenager the keys but it is the reasons I cannot think of that scare me the most!

___I did not own a car until gainfully employed after college but borrowed the parents for dates and to get to work during college summers. While at college, I never had one … I can only tell you that being car-less through HS and college made me appreciate an automobile much more today then if I was handed the keys before I really understood what ownership was all about.

___Finally, this is not about keeping up with the Jones’, it is about keeping your daughter safe. Giving her the keys to her own vehicle at her age increases her risk far more then the status of car ownership is worth no matter what that status means to someone of her young age.

___Good Luck

___Wayne

Do you have any indication as to how "marketed-to" your daughter
might be, i.e. is she interested in performance and the type
of competitive attitude that's such a teen-killer? Or do you
think she would be capable of not only thinking more like Justin
but also doing a little pushback advocacy among other people
who might wind up in the car with her? Here's a great opportunity
to see if the type of enthusiasm shared around here would
translate over to more new young drivers, and if so how hard
it is to get it to take. In your case it might be a little
easier since the boys probably tend to be more reckless and
invincible-feeling.
.
_H*

One thing that kills kids is peer pressure. When they are driving they get into a gang mentality behind the wheel. Your best bet is to get a very safe car that doesn't hold alot of people and doesn't have any power. Then you can be assured that she won't do something stupid in the spur of the moment because her friends taunt her or whatever. I know we all think our kids are too good for that and have strong wills, but it happens.

Get her a car that her friends don't want to drive in and she won't be the one driving.
Make sure she wears her seat belt ALL THE TIME. And she will be as safe as reasonable.

Oh, and when the weather warms up, take her to an Autocross event. This way she can know what it feels like to have a vehicle lose control and how to correct it (or even an open parking lot).

RH77

My oldest turned 13 last September.
In 3 years if they want a car (Of course) they will need to:
1. Prove they are responsible in everything else they do
2. Purchase the car themselves
3. Pass safety inspections and keep maintenance
4. Pay the added insurance premium themselves, or their portion.

Regardless, 1st Ticket any car is yanked.

The Mrs. may have different thoughts but I'm a tough 'ol son-of-a-gun regarding that.
If any of the 1-4 isn't met there is always the "Looser cruiser" (bus) as some call it.

No offense, but I disagree with numbers 2 and 4. To put the financial burden on a Teen has shown to decrease educational performance -- for example working too much and not studying. Everything else sounds good.

RH77

My oldest turned 13 last September.
In 3 years if they want a car (Of course) they will need to:
1. Prove they are responsible in everything else they do
2. Purchase the car themselves
3. Pass safety inspections and keep maintenance
4. Pay the added insurance premium themselves, or their portion.

Regardless, 1st Ticket any car is yanked.

The Mrs. may have different thoughts but I'm a tough 'ol son-of-a-gun regarding that.
If any of the 1-4 isn't met there is always the "Looser cruiser" (bus) as some call it.

Teenage drivers. This is can get as nasty as political stuff. I have three ,, now young adult lady's with there own children.

I scraficed my Festiva. It was a wonderful car. It gave its all. I turned it over to the wife and children for there eduction behind the wheel at 138k miles.

You say the wife? Yes the wife. She didnt know how to drive a 5mt car so it was time she learned also.

The rules here where simple: You had to learn to drive on a MT tranny car. Period!!! You had to beable to prove to me that you could drive. Change a tire on a muddy gravel road with the tools supplyied in the hatch. Located and change the air filter, oil and oil filter. Check brake fluid and cooling system fluid.

Once all learning and basic testing was done. Then you entered into advanced driving skills. Learning to slide the car. How the car reacts in slides. Emergency braking. Off road driving. My deer hunting lease was used for this at the time. Along with a area we call the Hoffman bottoms.

Once all of this was met. You were than allowed to drive the Festiva for two years. The wife and I signed you up on our Ins. We paided your first two months. After that you paided us in cash for your Ins. The car was handed over to them with fresh brakes, tires, oil and filters. They had to get a job, keep there grades up and maintain the car. Welcome to adulthood!!!!

At the end of the two years the car had to be handed over the the next sister. The training and everything started all over again for that kid. You were expected to have enough saved money to purchase your college car and get on with your own life. This also ment you had to get those grades in HS to get the scholrships and put your own butt thru college!

This system worked out great for us! All of our children survied and learned from it. Two of the three went on to school. One graduated. One droped out and started a family. The third never got out of the starting blocks for school and started her family.

Two of the girls are still driving the cars they purchased for college use. The third one has been thru several cars.

They cracked up and scraped up the Festiva. And they witnessed there Ins. going up. And also had to pay us for the full three years it stayied up for there stupid actions. And also paid us for the bumps bangs and such that didnt involve Ins.

The middle daughter backed the car off in a ditch once. It torn up the exhaust system. Messed up the hatch and bumper cover. She took it to a muffler shop and paid to have the exhaust system replaced. Then off to body shops to get est. on the body repair. I took the cheapist number. Then billed them for that amount. After all its my car,, not theres. They then paided me that amount. Wife and I banked it. then we got the car fixed as it was passed to the next kid. Let the kid that banged it up drive around looking bad.

Im sure many here wont agree with how and what we did. The joys of parenting leave us with many choices. And there is no hand book written with all the answers.

We chose to roll the car, HS, college all into one big ball. We worked very hard to install work ethic and responcebility into our children. With those two issues at hand and in control of. You can do anything you want with your life.

We also brought them up with the fact: When you turn 18 your on your own! None of this crap so many parents and children go thru. When you turn 18. You best be in school, the military, married or otherwise on your own. OOO and by the way we arent paying for any of it. :)

just my .02 cents

i agree with psy and hot george on a majority of the opinions, however, there is one I must disgress... since I was blessed with a car by my father I have to do the same for my son/daughter regardless.... it wouldn't be fair if I had the chance and they didn't.

But yeah psy, that training you put them through... they will thank you later for it.


Of course insurance is still paid by them ;) my children are not going to taint my so far... clean driving record!

I'm glad you are not considering this, but Keith Bradshier in his book mentions what is going to happen when older 6000-pound SUVs are handed to the kids. Driver inexperience (and maybe recklessness), vehicle starting to come apart - bad chemistry. Add to that a vehicle that clearly can't be driven like a sports car and can kill more people in a crash. :(

This story does not fit this thread except to point out what a truck driven recklessly can do. Also, there might have been something like the teen mob mentality - someone egging the driver act stupid.

A family was crossing the street legally in Denver. If it was a Civic there might have been a chance there would have been more survivors, although going thru a red light at an estimated 50mph is very lethal:

The husband - listed in fair condition
The wife - killed :(
4-yr daughter - killed :(
2-yr son - killed :(While the drunk driver angers me, his passenger infuriates me more for doing nothing. The passenger was also arrested for being an accessory to the crime - why did he let it go?


Story (http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/10303191/detail.html)

I feel that the statistics are more likely to kill than the type of vehicle. Get your daughter a safe, reliable, mid-sized 4-banger vehicle and teach her about how to respect it. Have her understand the basic workings of the car. Have her pay insurance and gas on the vehicle. Take her to a parking lot and let her explore and push the vehicles limits so she is not afraid of it (like many younger people are).


My folks did all of this, and it helped me out vastly. I paid for my insurance and gas, developed a respect for my car, knew it's limits, and always paid the consequences of my actions.

As for protection, you can have the safest sedan on the market and still be killed in an accident. As stated above, find something reliable and cost-efficient, and teach your daughter how to drive defensively. That alone will eliminate many traffic hazards she'll encounter.

Good luck! :D

There are a lot of factors in auto safety, as other members have pointed out

What you drive and it's condition
The driver's ability and emotional disposition
Being sober
When and where you drive

Maybe make her play a few driving video games. They prepared me well for being hit and spun arround. Now it is instinctive to put the car in neutral or park to restart the car after a spin. Before videogames I spun out and was pointing the wrong direction on the highway and the car wouldn't start because I forgot to put it in park to start he car. videogames have since trained me on what to do.