Archives




View Full Version : Electric vehicles promise much more than gas savings


Right Lane Cruiser
10-12-2009, 09:23 AM
http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/2/AmericanFlag.jpg Automakers, utility companies, broadband providers, and government road builders will each have to contribute to an integrated system. (http://host.madison.com/ct/news/opinion/column/guest/article_cb47468d-6aa2-57a2-9956-f231f3ec2a5e.html)

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/501/2011_Chevrolet_Volt1.jpgJeffrey D. Sachs - MADISON (http://host.madison.com) - October 12, 2009

A grand vision indeed; is it realizable? --Ed.

The key to climate change control lies in improved technology. We need to find new ways to produce and use energy, meet our food needs, transport ourselves, and heat and cool our homes that will allow us to cut back on oil, gas, coal, nitrogen-based fertilizer, and other sources of the climate-changing greenhouse gases.

There are enough good options available to suggest that the world can accomplish the goal of controlling climate change at a reasonable cost (perhaps 1 percent of global income per year) while enabling the world economy to continue to grow and raise living standards. One of the most exciting developments on the horizon is the new generation of electric automobiles.

In the earliest days of the automobile in the late 19th century, many kinds of cars competed with each other - steam, battery, and internal combustion engine (ICE). The gasoline and diesel-powered internal combustion engines won the competition with the success of the Model T, which first rolled off of the assembly line in 1908. One hundred years later, competition is again stirring.

The age of electric vehicles is upon us. The Toyota Prius, a hybrid-electric vehicle first introduced in Japan in 1997, marked an initial breakthrough. By connecting a small generator and rechargeable battery to the braking system of a standard car, the hybrid augments the normal engine with a battery-powered motor. Gasoline mileage is sufficiently enhanced to make... http://host.madison.com/ct/news/opinion/column/guest/article_cb47468d-6aa2-57a2-9956-f231f3ec2a5e.html

ItsNotAboutTheMoney
10-13-2009, 12:21 AM
Aarrgghh. There's that power-back-to-the-grid thing again.

Ok, to put my techno-optimist hat back on I do agree that EVs and PHEVs can dramatically improve overall efficiency over the next 15 years. They will produce the biggest gains as they make the least efficient drivers (short-distance commuters) much more efficient. Not only does this reduce energy consumption, but it will help decrease pollution in the places where pollution has the biggest impact on people (cities). Add to this the decreased vehicle noise and it's all a win, win, win. A by-product of this efficiency-driven investment is that some of it can be applied to regular vehicles: start-stop, replacing mechanical parts with electrical parts, lighter components, improved aerodynamics.

(Of course, my techno-pessimist side says that they'll just make vehicles bigger again so the only gain we'll see is the decreased noise and pollution.)

The article just refers to cars but we're reading about more businesses and public-sector organizations trialing hybrid technologies in buses and trucks. If they deliver long-term cost-benefit you'll begin to see a massive switch over to hybrid in new purchases: first by the large businesses that can afford the up-front costs, next by the public sector and small companies with government loans and tax-incentives and finally, if costs drop sufficiently, without any subsidy.

Tochatihu
10-19-2009, 09:21 PM
I chose a somewhat related recent thread to post the following link, as I am not blessed with thread-starter priviledges here :)

US National academies press publishes a new report on external costs of energy-production and use technologies, which can be purchased or read for free online:

http://www.nap.edu/catalog.php?record_id=12794

DAS

xcel
10-19-2009, 09:31 PM
Hi Doug:

___You can start a new thread in every forum other than the News and Article forums...

___Good Luck

___Wayne

xcel
10-19-2009, 11:16 PM
Hi Doug:

___I am to page 70 of the Hidden Costs of Energy and some of the numbers coming out are pretty out there using std. and their own modeling. Still in the Coal section but the std. mean is around $0.032/kWh of damage (based mainly on SO2 and NOx) yet the wholesale electricity rate from a coal fired plant not including the wires is about the same?

___I wish the report scaled up as it is hard to read in its free-online format without a lot of eyestrain :(

___Good Luck

___Wayne

BailOut
10-19-2009, 11:24 PM
___I wish the report scaled up as it is hard to read in its free-online format without a lot of eyestrain :(
In Firefox you can hold down CTRL while scrolling your mouse wheel in and out for zooming an entire page.

xcel
10-19-2009, 11:35 PM
Hi Brian:

___I have the same control with IE and the mouse wheel and have viewed it from 100 to 160% zoom. It is blurry but readable at 160. From 160 to 150 to 140 and so on it get less easy to read but sharper.

___Good Luck

___Wayne

Tochatihu
10-20-2009, 08:39 PM
Exec. Summary says $62 billion damages (2005) from coal power gen, cf. 56 billion from the transportation sector.

Interesting that what appears to be most cost-effective to lower coal externalities is to replace the 'clunkers' (old, relatively polluting steam plants) with more modern tech.

So, quick quiz: which large country is doing that now?

DAS

xcel
10-21-2009, 12:24 AM
Hi Doug:

___I am only to page 180, jeesshhh :)

___What really surprised me was the low damage cost attributed to diesel through 2030 thanks to bio... And ethanol too. The big shocker was wind energy as far as damage costs are miniscule compared to everything else!

___Good Luck

___Wayne

worthywads
10-21-2009, 01:02 AM
Exec. Summary says $62 billion damages (2005) from coal power gen, cf. 56 billion from the transportation sector.

Interesting that what appears to be most cost-effective to lower coal externalities is to replace the 'clunkers' (old, relatively polluting steam plants) with more modern tech.

So, quick quiz: which large country is doing that now?

DAS

China? But we can't in the US because of NO NEW COAL?

Tochatihu
10-21-2009, 09:14 PM
I presume Duke Energy or anyone else with one of the old-gen coal burners could knock it down and replace with a new, cleaner one. That would cost them and shareholders money. If the externalities someday get figured into energy generation costs, it would look good to them financially (I presume). But they could still start tomorrow.

I don't want to suggest that my host nation here is super-clean in coal, or in any other respect. Only half the new plants constructed are new tech (at least that's how I understand it). Also their mining industry kills off workers like nowhere else on earth.

The wind-gens are going up pretty fast though. The northern coast of Hainan island is now dotted with them, which surprised me. That's hurricane country, pengyou :)

DAS



Copyright 2006 Clean MPG, LLC. All Rights Reserved.