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I found this place from Tiger’s photos of his new car over on GH. Once I realized Xcel was here, read about the 10% challenge and saw a definitive hypermiling guide was being contemplated you couldn’t have held me back with ropes.

I’ve been just in love with my HCH-2 since I got it in early January. Initially I drove it like a normal car but quickly got addicted to raising my FE. So I read everything I could at GH and tried to apply it religiously. However I find I need to read a lot of threads over and over again because it doesn’t all make sense on the first reading, or till I’ve actually experienced in my car what they’re talking about. Also tried out many of the tips given for different cars which I wasn’t sure would work for mine, so sorting through it all and validating the good information has been slow--but fascinating.

I’ve been a bit frustrated to find my FE isn’t increasing very much with each tank as I know I’m driving the car much more efficiently than I was at the beginning. For instance, now I can drive with load and get into EV mode pretty much at will on a downhill or level road—so I figure I either need to learn how to employ these techniques more consistently/effectively or see what else I should be doing to raise FE and get this “invisible anchor” out of my car.

My goal is to reach 50 as a start. I was thinking at first my mpg (currently mid ‘40s) was due to the cold weather, but I’ve seen several other posters at GH--same car same city--getting in the ‘50s. So I know it’s possible. Also, I just bought the maximum extended warranty so I’m motivated to drive this car as smart as I can for the next 8 years. BTW, I don’t know zip about cars and engines :o so I hope you don't mind an occasional dumb question from the peanut gallery.

Welcome to cleanmpg.com. From the sounds of it you sound like you are off to a good start. How are you measuring your FE? Are you using the trip odometers? If you are, do you reset one of them every fill up? If you don't then its going to be hard to see the improvements.

I know one person that never reset the trip odometers and was saying they were seeing little improvment. This is because any improvement you make is averaged in with all the previous miles you've driven. So the longer you drive the less effect any trip or tank will have on the reading. I'm hoping that is whats wrong.

Describe your trip. How long is your commute? Is it city? Give as much info as you can.

Hi Tarabell:

___Welcome to CleanMPG. We have a lot of work still ahead including a few more articles … Tom has been pressing me for a hypermiling guide for a while now ;) I have been building small case studies for each technique trying to convey more then just a description. Hopefully by the end of the week so give me a bit more time.

___About your HCH-II. I have had the chance to drive one and it is a tough nut to crack to move up to the wild numbers. I believe like Tom does that it is going to be easier to hit the EPA in one then the HCH-I’s in either MT or CVT format. It is when pushing to extreme numbers that I have my misgivings. We will do what we can with future posts but in my short time behind the wheel, the HCH-II takes a huge hit when trying to bring the packs SoC back after a short period of EV. During that hidden/forced charging period to bring the SoC back, the EPA numbers are tough to match! I have some ideas but until Tom and I get some real time behind the wheel, there are some secrets that thing is hiding from us let alone many HCH-II owners who are pushing it for all she’s worth around the world. NASA is doing a great job at pushing segments but watching Kenny has me questioning the HCH-II’s EV mode capabilities vs. the payback afterwards … I hope you will push segments and tanks as well as help figure out where her optimizations lye in the near future as well. She’s got it in her but her best is really well hidden to date is all.

___Good Luck and again, welcome to CleanMPG.

___Wayne

Wellcome Tarabell.

It would seem the new Civics in any flavor are very very senstive to the throttle. The more gental I am with my new EX the better the mpg is.

Enjoy!!!!

psy

Welcome tarabell!

I did peek at the 2006 Civic and was impressed by the new dashboard layout.

Welcome to cleanmpg.com. From the sounds of it you sound like you are off to a good start. How are you measuring your FE? Are you using the trip odometers? If you are, do you reset one of them every fill up? If you don't then its going to be hard to see the improvements.
Yes I reset my trip odomoter after filling up, and have been recording my mileage faithfully over at GH. I have the same username there so you can take a look if you like. Only 6 tanks recorded so far. My best tank was when I made a trip to San Diego and I was able to really play with the car, got it in EV mode for the first time, and tried out the cruise control.


Describe your trip. How long is your commute? Is it city? Give as much info as you can.
We live in urban L.A. This is our routine: Every morning my husband borrows my car to go to his health club while I get ready for work. That's an 8 mile round trip of city driving but it's so early that the streets are pretty empty. Then when he gets back I take the car for my daily 20 mile commute to my job. Both my office and home are within about a mile of the freeway so I drive mostly freeway miles, and my trip almost never takes more than 30 minutes--usually less.* I don't use the cruise control, just keep it between 60-65, usually the #2 lane. I use the carpool lane on the way home. Weekends we mostly use H's car. The driving terrain is pretty level--no hills around our house or on the freeway.

In the beginning I gave H a lot of heat because each morning he returns my car with the trip mileage lower than where I left it last night. But figured there's not much I can do about the mileage hit because 1) he's starting the car cold and 2) it's a short trip. He refuses to drive it any differently from a normal car but is a conservative driver and typically drives in a way to use his brakes as little as possible. I figure eventually my mileage will make up for his.

*Adding my own personal comment here: living within the city and working outside the city has a huge advantage in that you are always going against traffic. As I see the enormous wave of L.A. traffic heading in the opposite direction every day, I am ever thankful that our circumstances worked out this way.

I have been building small case studies for each technique trying to convey more then just a description. Hopefully by the end of the week so give me a bit more time.

I know it will be great, so take your time. And I imagine it will always be improving as we learn more about our cars.


___About your HCH-II. I have had the chance to drive one and it is a tough nut to crack to move up to the wild numbers. I believe like Tom does that it is going to be easier to hit the EPA in one then the HCH-I’s in either MT or CVT format. It is when pushing to extreme numbers that I have my misgivings. We will do what we can with future posts but in my short time behind the wheel, the HCH-II takes a huge hit when trying to bring the packs SoC back after a short period of EV. During that hidden/forced charging period to bring the SoC back, the EPA numbers are tough to match!
Interesting, didn't know about this. I generally always see my SoC start out low in the mornings now that we're having a cold spell in L.A. and it's pretty high by the time I arrive at work. My afternoon commute SoC starts out high and I don't notice much of a hit--if any after doing EV mode, but will watch it now.

I have some ideas but until Tom and I get some real time behind the wheel, there are some secrets that thing is hiding from us let alone many HCH-II owners who are pushing it for all she’s worth around the world. NASA is doing a great job at pushing segments but watching Kenny has me questioning the HCH-II’s EV mode capabilities vs. the payback afterwards … I hope you will push segments and tanks as well as help figure out where her optimizations lye in the near future as well. She’s got it in her but her best is really well hidden to date is all.
Those two are indeed awesome drivers but I know they really work for their results. I'm now thinking of resetting my Trip A odometer for each commute segment and keeping Trip B for my tank mileage. The Trip A segments should give me some idea of what I'm doing well or wrong each way and won't be affected by the 63 mile reset bug. Thanks for the welcome!

Hi psyshack and delta, and thanks for saying hello.

It would seem the new Civics in any flavor are very very senstive to the throttle. The more gental I am with my new EX the better the mpg is.
I know one of my worst habits is impatience with other drivers and I'm constantly reminding myself to drive relaxed and gentle on the accelerator. But then a big truck or someone on their cell will get in front of me and I feel compelled to go around them as soon as possible. I have this thing about good visibility and drivers not paying attention. In fact I get grouchy :mad: when someone in my car is trying to have a conversation with me. Many times I don't even like the radio on when I drive.

I am getting much better at stoplights though, I don't jackrabbit like I used to in my old car (a V6). If no one's behind me I keep it under 2K rpms and accelerate slow. But when someone's close behind me, I try to start off quicker and hope that getting up to cruising speed faster will allow me to coast that much longer.

___About your HCH-II. I have had the chance to drive one and it is a tough nut to crack to move up to the wild numbers. I believe like Tom does that it is going to be easier to hit the EPA in one then the HCH-I’s in either MT or CVT format. It is when pushing to extreme numbers that I have my misgivings. We will do what we can with future posts but in my short time behind the wheel, the HCH-II takes a huge hit when trying to bring the packs SoC back after a short period of EV. During that hidden/forced charging period to bring the SoC back, the EPA numbers are tough to match!


Sorry to hijack the thread, instead of doing my 'own' intro, but figured I might be able to contribute here, given the discussion.

I've got just over 3K on mine now, and am averaging 50.3 with the car. Given that it was delivered to me in January, during the coldest week of the winter (I'm in Northern IL, for the uninitated), I don't think that's too bad. And indeed, of all the HCH-2 mileage posters, I'm the 'northernmost' one with a little 'star' (got it last night). But enough of my bragging :)

Generally, it's taken me about 10mi to hit the 50mpg on the averaging display - that's from cold. Now, with a couple of days of warmer temps, I can get into the mid-40s in about 3.5mi or so - again, from cold.

I've done a best of 58.6mpg on my commute in to work, taking secondary highways. In the Accord, I'd take the interstate home, because it's uphill geograpically, between work and my home, and that return route tended to give me the best mpg (note that I don't FAS the car, or use extreme drafting techniques - especially since an 18-wheeler spat up some road debris on my front end last summer :(

However, with the Civic's 1.3L , I notice that while I can get in the 70-100mpg range pretty well now at speeds 45 and lower, at 55mph, you start taking a big hit in the 'plus' territory. The forte of the Accord is the weakness of the Civic (and vice-versa). Because of that, I now eschew the interstate, in favor of the secondary highway, believe it or not.

W/ regard to the EV-mode, and how I use it - the only time that I *purposefully* invoke it is as such:
- When driving in my office park, after my 'to work' commute, when the car's warmed up and the speed limit is low.

At low speeds, this thing can last a lonnnnng time without draining a bar off the SoC meter. And you start seeing the averaging display start incrementing fast (relative to ICE-on conditions). That's why you probably have so many people using it so frequently - it's like crack ;)

- When pulling into my housing development, under the same conditions.
- When on certain downhills, in slower rush hour traffic.
- When on unoccupied roads where I can experiment a bit.

I *unintentionally* invoke it fairly frequently, just for a few seconds, as a result of the way I treat the go pedal when adjusting my buffer, etc.

My SoC doesn't take a hit because of that mode (again, I almost never take a bar off), but because I'm using assist (4 bars or less) at *every* single start from rest (again, the diametric opposite of the Accord), and because of my coasting, I'm not putting (as much) regen back into the pack as perhaps a more 'normal' driver would. So it will gradually bleed down, and if I'm unlucky enough, I'll get a bit of forced regen (about 2x a week, on average). If it's severe enough, anything past 50-55 on the iFCD is impossible to maintain. Many times, I adjust my foot when up to speed, and I'll see one little green regen bar for a few seconds to a minute while at steady-speed cruise.

Again, I have just over 3K mi on the car now, < 40lbs in the tires, and have been driving it in 10-20F temps, especially the first 1000mi or so. Given the 58.6mpg commute segment (21mi long) I've gotten in it so far (and most days now are 55-56+), I expect to surpass 60 on the outbound commute during the spring :D
For what I got the car for, that's pleasing to me (< 1/3 gal to get to work = happy). But I do wonder what the upper limits will be, the way I drive the car (no 'extreme' measures, etc). Again, not to throw stones, but I think the Cali drivers could be doing a bit better than they are, especially if they're using EV-mode excessively.

Hi Mark:

___Welcome to CleanMPG and how did you hear about us anyway? I hope you take the time to post your own bio in an intro thread of your own because you indeed have a ton to offer all of us ;)

___Here is a repost of my 64.2 mpg HCH-II test drive without much detail as I had only a short period of time to feel her out. Once it warms up, I have to take a demo out for a week to attempt to figure out what her secrets are? Hopefully the following can help you in this regard as well?


___I had my first opportunity to take the HCH-II out for a test drive yesterday and I was a bit disappointed but for differing reasons … After maybe 1 block, I noticed a somewhat severe pull to the right. I asked for a pressure gauge after my test drive and discovered she had 42 # in her left front, 32 right front, and 32/34 rears. Its SoC was below ½ and this car had just 4 miles on it :angry: Because of its low SoC from dead cold, I saw a continuous 2 bars of forced charge for its first 1.5 - 2 miles and that is one killer hit to your FE! Once her SoC was above ½, the forced charging disappeared and she started showing her stuff. As posted in your other thread, I saw a steady 75 mpg at 55 mph once I hit the flats for 2 of the 4 total highway miles of the entire 20.7 mile test drive. The good thing is I saw 2 bars of SoC re-appear from hidden charging during the 4 highway miles and if you have enough highway to offset the Assist you are forced to use during the city stop and goes, you may be able to hold its 75 + mpg at slower highway speeds while hidden charging brings her SoC all the way up. Seeing the instantaneous max without Regen (HCH-II’s EV mode) was easy enough. Using just 2 bars of assist to slow the drop in speed, the SoC would inevitably drop which knocks the hell out of her FE on the payback as mentioned previously. The second Forced charging event reared its ugly face at a bar under 50% SoC and about 15 miles out. The best I could achieve during those forced charge events was 45 - 50 mpg :( I have never driven the 05 HCH-I but have driven Tbaleno’s 03 w/ CVT for maybe 50 miles of mostly city and well over 100 miles of highway. I felt the ability to control Assist (remove it entirely) on any acceleration was much easier in Tom’s 03 HCH-I and my Insight then the HCH-II. I have read the 05 HCH’s are Assist happy as well so I may be speaking out of turn? Honda is really making a big mistake here :cry: Given this HCH-II was not anywhere near being setup properly, low tire pressures all around let alone the differential right to left causing the pull, driving in just OK temps (39 - 40 degrees F), and being brand new, I was expecting a bit better then 64.2 mpg after 20.7 miles (16 miles city/suburban and 4 miles highway) for my first time behind the wheel? It wasn’t bad by any stretch but something just did not add up with her is all?

___Although I had scant opportunity to use a P&G or FAS technique(s) let alone any drafts given just 4 miles of Interstate highway on a very lightly traveled early Saturday afternoon (the salesman wanted to drive with me which limited my gyrations ;)), I did perform 2 FAS’s and one with a CVT re-engagement above 40 mph. The CVT re-engaged very smoothly fortunately. I also have a suspicion that the CVT never truly disengaged in N. Just a slight drag on the second FAS made me question it is all? This could be just new tires and inability to glide under N in a brand new HCH-II vs. what I am used too but who knows?

___A small recommendation for all HCH-II pilots w/ my very limited experience … When you are in EV, let her speed bleed off w/ no assist or use as little as absolutely needed. I was able to hold a maximum of 2 bars assist while in EV quite easily w/ a slow bleed off of speed the first time I hit EV and successive use saw the SoC slowly bleeding away after a few miles of stoplight to stoplight - stop and goes. The inability to hold back assist on acceleration is what really bothered me the most given the Forced charging that will inevitably show up in an all-city driving environment once the SoC dropped under 50%. 0 bars of assist during EV is a true FE killer app (just like the Prius II running dead band) as I found this mode of operation easily entered into and easily held. Even easier then the Prius II in fact! The loss of SoC with just a few EV w/ Assist’s and any acceleration from any stop light or sign will cause a forced charge once the minimum SoC has been reached and the paying back is indeed a killer.___Good Luck

___Wayne

Hi All:

___There is so much HCH-II FE improvement dialog that I copied this thread to the FE Forum. Tarabell and Mark, I hope you did not mind?

___Good Luck

___Wayne

Hi Mark:

___Welcome to CleanMPG and how did you hear about us anyway? I hope you take the time to post your own bio in an intro thread of your own because you indeed have a ton to offer all of us ;)


Umm...who's 'Mark' ? LOL... j/k... :p

You can thank Tigerhonaker...when he finally got his HCH-2 and posted pics - they were linked to this site. For all the traffic those pics have brought this site, the administrator should consider tossing a commission Tiger's way... :eek:

From what I'm seeing, you've got a steady flow of the GH 'oldtimers' finding their way to this site. Should make for some valuable info for those interested in clean / alternative energy, along with fuel economy (for now, that spells: 'h-y-b-r-i-d', for most people...lol).

As far as my bio...I dunno if anyone would be interested in it, as I've only been doing this for about a year now, but maybe my insights might be useful, having now owned two different hybrids in the course of 13mos :eek: I'll see what I can drum up in the next day or two, as I'm a bit tired at the moment. Appreciate the kind words :)



___Here is a repost of my 64.2 mpg HCH-II test drive without much detail as I had only a short period of time to feel her out. Once it warms up, I have to take a demo out for a week to attempt to figure out what her secrets are? Hopefully the following can help you in this regard as well?


It helps, in that it seems to concur with what I wrote, but much more succinctly (*now* who's the better writer ? lol)

I mentioned the zero (visible) assist capability in GH a few weeks ago, and, IMO, was summarily dismissed by people who may have had their individual HCH-2s longer, but (IMHO) had a bit to learn w/ regard to getting the most out of the car. The idea of forced regen taking back the gains they made in their excessive use of EV-mode is lost on them, as is the loss of battery life from excessive cycling of the pack. Oblivious... :rolleyes:

Anyway, I'll sign off for now, but will definitely be stopping by in the future. Until then....take care :)

I mentioned the zero (visible) assist capability in GH a few weeks ago, and, IMO, was summarily dismissed by people who may have had their individual HCH-2s longer, but (IMHO) had a bit to learn w/ regard to getting the most out of the car. The idea of forced regen taking back the gains they made in their excessive use of EV-mode is lost on them, as is the loss of battery life from excessive cycling of the pack. Oblivious... :rolleyes:


...Yes, I think you were sort of brushed aside by a few HCHII drivers who tend to want to believe that the car is very limited and simply cannot be as full of potential as many have already proven it is. This is unfortunate, given your past history in the HAH and opening the doors to severl of us for that platform.

I definitely want to extend my welcome also, G&B and most happy you found this place. Thanks for showing what can be achieved with this car even under even your adverse weather conditions. Can't wait for more installments of this story.

I like that gandhi quote. Maybe we can put that as a tag line under our banners ;)