Archives




View Full Version : A clinic for special guests...


xcel
08-04-2009, 08:38 PM
http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/2/AmericanFlag.jpg A beautiful day to decimate the EPA :) (cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?p=225880)

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/501/Jennifer_Geiger_and_Tony_Gasbarro.jpgWayne Gerdes - CleanMPG (cleanmpg.com) - Aug. 4, 2009

Jennifer Geiger (Consumers Guide) and Tony Gasbarro (Examiner) with the PZEV 05 Accord rated at 21 city/31 highway/24 combined per the 08 EPA.

A schedule to perform a lengthy driving clinic with both Jennifer and Tony was setup a few weeks ago and today was their day of reckoning.

Setting the table

A discussion is held about hypermiling and all of its nuances. The students are given a basic overview on the history of hypermiling, safety, vehicle setup, Basic, Intermediate and Advanced techniques and the types of courses they will experience both with and without guidance.

A baseline is simply a drive around a 4-mile standard “Shopping” course which consists of leaving home on an errand run to the grocery store, a video store, a hardware store and back again. It consists of 6 stop signs, 8 stop lights, 3 parking lots, a subdivision and speed limits between 25 and 45 mph. This course is driven without guidance other than direction from point to point to see how the student reacts to traffic and to assess their standard habits (good or bad ;)).

The Final exam is driving the same course while “throwing the book at it” including animated guidance and instruction. The std. “Wayne” clinic.

The Highway clinic consists of a drive from Gurnee, IL onto the Interstate (I-94/294) to O’Hare’s departure terminals and back again. This one is relatively simple as it includes discussion about lane placement (RR), proctologist avoidance (RP and alternates of alternates), speed limits, DWB, DWL, ventilation and quite a bit of discussion about what “everybody else” is doing on the roadways and the myths that are attached to Hypermiling while I accentuate safety and being 100% legal.

On the Road - Baseline

First up was Jennifer, the Midwest Automobile Media Associations (www.midwestautomotivemediaassociation.com) Vice-President of Membership and one of the editors at Consumer Guide. She had to experience the warm-up hit on her baseline but it was really only a course familiarization drive. The tally? 19.7 mpg.

Tony, a Chicago area “Examiner” drove the same course next with a warmed up vehicle and although mostly uneventful, got caught up in the front of the grocery store parking lot with traffic and shoppers walking into and out of the front door. A great lesson learned by both Tony and Jennifer which is exactly what is supposed to occur. His baseline came in at 23.5 mpg.

The FAS, Braking and Steering

With Tony still behind the wheel, I instructed him to drive to an empty parking lot and perform his first FAS from about 30 mph. During the Glide, poor roadways giving rise to poor FE was discussed as was power and unpowered steering. After his glide through the “rough” area, I instructed him to brake as hard as he could while simulating an Emergency Stop. We stopped from 25 mph in a very short distance with the ABS working as expected. Both Tony and Jennifer took away from that planned activity the knowledge that there are brakes during a FAS but with power brakes - vacuum limitations.

All highway - Off to the airport we go!

With a freshly reset FCD (the OEM in the NAVI unit), we headed off with three in the car to O’Hare. Most Clinics end in the 51 to 54 mpg range but today, the stars and planets must have been aligned as the FE achieved by both was out of this world! Construction for almost the entire distance left us in 45 mph construction zones which meant strict attention to SAHM in the Accord (LOD under 50% and IGN between 29 and 37), DWL and handling traffic while being one of only 3 “legal” drivers on the Interstate that we were driving along up with. With Tony at the wheel, we arrived at O’Hare’s Departure Terminal #3 at an amazing 57.2 mpg. We were using simple basic and intermediate techniques with the NICE-On being the farthest up the ladder.

For the drive back, Jennifer got in and within 15-minutes; she was flying solo with only slight guidance from me. With traffic building, we took an alternate of an alternate going up and around an Oasis (rest area) allowing some of the higher speed travelers to continue on their way and back down onto the interstate we went. Through the Death Turn clover leaf off-ramp at 40 to 20 mph, a pulse up the overpass and a NICE-On all the way to the first and second stop lights and back to our final destination at the mall. She experienced her first FAS and the accompanying heavy steering feel while gliding to a stop in the large mall parking lot. Her segment, 55.0 mpg.

A few more minutes of clinic time with basic to advanced techniques practiced around the empty mall parking lots and we were off to my home just over the ridge.

Both appear ready for guided advanced techniques...

Final Exam

With a quick break after the O’Hare trip, we went over the lessons learned on the highway and what if anything they can incorporate into their own daily routines. Additionally, we discussed what they will experience on their final exam. Some here know what that means ;)

Jennifer was out first and the first person out is always at a disadvantage as they have no idea what they are going to experience.

The 3-block glide from the drive to the first stop sign showed what a little elevation potential can do. A slight wait for traffic to clear before exiting the subdivision was enforced. A strong pulse with a long glide afterward, some smart braking and we made it through the first light, another long accel and glide through the second.

She was caught at the third but arriving at < 15 mph is not bad. A few more lights and signs, into the Grocery Store parking lot, park in a face-out and take off to the video store. A Face-in with Potential, the 270-degree swing, 2-block glide to the Hardware store without using a single drop of fuel (I really like this part of the course :D) and a wait for traffic to clear before taking on the next two stop signs and three lights with some Smart Braking. Long FAS down the suburban arterial while slowing for a 23 mph subdivision entry and back home again...

Her final, 35.1 mpg with heavier traffic and more technical conditions vs. the 19.7 mpg achieved earlier in the day.

Tony’s turn... Tony has been practicing some of the techniques previously so he had some idea as to what he was supposed to do prior let alone watching what Jennifer had achieved in her final exam left him in the cat bird seat.

Through the same course, he arrived back at my home with a 36.5 mpg run vs. the 23.5 mpg achieved earlier in the day.

Clinic Results

Driver|Course|Distance|MPG|Percent above/below EPA
Jennifer|City Shopping Trip (Baseline)|4-miles|19.7|-6.2%
Jennifer|City Shopping Trip (Final Exam)|4-miles|35.1|+67.1%
Jennifer|Highway - WI Border to O’Hare Airport|32-miles|55.0|+77.4%
||||
Tony|City Shopping Trip (Baseline)|4-miles|23.5|+11.9%
Tony|City Shopping Trip (Final Exam)|4-miles|36.5|+73.8%
Tony| Highway - WI Border to O’Hare Airport|32-miles|57.2|+ 84.5%

The true Mid-sized Accord is a highway driver but to almost double the EPA without resorting to bevy of advanced techniques and novices behind the wheel? An impressive clinic in my book!

Taking an AT equipped Accord around the 4-mile city nightmare is lesson in futility as this is Full hybrid - Prius/Fusion territory but the drivers pulled their weight and achieved what I think we can all agree is excellent mileage.

Let us all hope the “Lesson for a Lifetime” was taken to heart and both continue to improve as they place the miles on their current and future rides.

All said, nice job Jennifer and Tony! Another clinic down, 5 + billion to go :)

MT bucket
08-04-2009, 10:10 PM
Very cool! :thumbs_up:

SentraSE-R
08-05-2009, 12:57 AM
Construction for almost the entire distance left us in 45 mph construction zones which meant strict attention to SAHM in the Accord (LOD under 50% and IGN between 29 and 37), DWL and handling traffic while being one of only 3 “legal” drivers on the Interstate that we were driving along up with. With Tony at the wheel, we arrived at O’Hare’s Departure Terminal #3 at an amazing 57.2 MPG . We were using simple basic and intermediate techniques with the NICE-On being the farthest up the ladder.

For the drive back, Jennifer got in and within 15-minutes; she was flying solo with only slight guidance from me. With traffic building, we took an alternate of an alternate going up and around an Oasis (rest area) allowing some of the higher speed travelers to continue on their way and back down onto the interstate we went. Through the Death Turn clover leaf off-ramp at 40 to 20 mph, a pulse up the overpass and a NICE-On all the way to the first and second stop lights and back to our final destination at the mall. She experienced her first Fas and the accompanying heavy steering feel while gliding to a stop in the large mall parking lot. Her segment, 55.0 mpg.

I'd have loved to be the fly on the wall. I'm missing the highway SAHM technique in my bag of tricks, as I never see 200% of EPA under highway conditions unless the trip is all downhill, and your people did it in both directions, with an automatic transmission car. Do other cars besides Hondas have SAHM? Is there a thread on how to attain it? It's better to aim for high IGN values, right? Or do you monitor both IGN and something else, like LOD or GPH values? In other words, how do I do it, if it's possible in either of my cars?

AlphabetBackward
08-05-2009, 03:47 PM
I also am a bit confused. I have never seen any trip above 50 MPG on my highway commute. The best I have seen was 48 and I think I had a tailwind. I drive with an iMPG of around 50 and if I try to go higher, the car loses speed, fast. I'm already driving 55 on a 65 road. My car has almost the exact same ratings as the Accord but I've never seen anything like those numbers.

ksstathead
08-05-2009, 03:54 PM
For one thing, I don't think your Camry is flat-towable, so with the Automatic you should not FAS at speed. That alone will keep you from matching the Accord which can be FAS'd.

FAS aside, note that they were in a 45mph zone, which should beat your 55mph result due to less wind resistance.

xcel
08-05-2009, 04:38 PM
Hi Darrell:

___I have not driven a Sentra with an SG-II attached so I do not know if Nissan has an IGN mode of ops with the excellent FE.

___Alphabetbackwards, I have driven a Camry Hybrid at 60 + mpg while on the Interstate in SHM but have no experience with a std. Camry during the same. The Accord's LOD will rise above 50% and drop out of SAHM above 56 mph so that is where it ends. With 45 and 55 mph construction and std. limits throughout the Chicago area, the Accord lives the high life. I do not travel over 60 anywhere I go no matter how high the upper limits are unless its going downhill and terminal brings me up to the PSL.

___Ksstathead, the Accord is indeed flat towable. On the highway however, FAS’ing was not involved as I kept the two drivers within basic and intermediate techniques.

___Good Luck

___Wayne

groar
08-05-2009, 04:46 PM
Thanks a lot for the sum-up :cool:

and congrats for your teaching skills :thumbs_up:

Denis.

jhu
08-06-2009, 07:54 PM
___Alphabetbackwards, I have driven a Camry Hybrid at 60 + mpg while on the Interstate in SHM but have no experience with a std. Camry during the same. The Accord's LOD will rise above 50% and drop out of SAHM above 56 mph so that is where it ends. With 45 and 55 mph construction and std. limits throughout the Chicago area, the Accord lives the high life. I do not travel over 60 anywhere I go no matter how high the upper limits are unless its going downhill and terminal brings me up to the PSL.


Do we have a list of cars that do have this SAHM feature? I have a feeling my car doesn't have it, but I've only had the chance to test down to 55 mph so far.

xcel
08-06-2009, 08:14 PM
Hi Jhu:

___Most cars have it that I have driven when SG-II equipped but some have a tighter band than others. You do have the opportunity to test down below that range but it might be when you are on a suburban arterial or some other such roadway as you drive off the Interstate.

___Good Luck

___Wayne

jhu
08-07-2009, 02:56 AM
Hi Jhu:

___Most cars have it that I have driven when SG-II equipped but some have a tighter band than others. You do have the opportunity to test down below that range but it might be when you are on a suburban arterial or some other such roadway as you drive off the Interstate.

___Good Luck

___Wayne

So I found this thread (http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14295) for the HCH-II. Are the IGN and LOD values the same for other cars you've driven?

xcel
08-07-2009, 10:40 AM
Hi Jhu:

___Unfortunately, no in most cases. LOD and IGN timing values vary from model to model.

Prius-II - IGN 14 - TPS 18
Prius-III - IGN 22 - TPS 19
TCH - IGN 18 - TPS 18
Accord - IGN 29 - 37 - LOD < 50
HCH-II - Same

___The Ranger had one as well but I have long forgotten its parameters.

___Good Luck

___Wayne

jhu
08-07-2009, 08:33 PM
Looks like the Accord is the only one without late intake valve closure (or maybe just a Honda thing)? Perhaps I'll start with the Accord numbers on my car.

jhu
08-08-2009, 01:36 PM
I think I may have found it in my car, although it doesn't seem to be all that useful. On flat road, IGN ~40 and LOD ~25 gives 50 mpg at ~55 mph or less. Going uphilll gives ~40-45 mpg, but speed can't be kept up. It's weird how fiddling with the throttle can increase IGN a lot even at the same LOD. Or am I not getting SAHM but just DWLing instead?

xcel
08-08-2009, 01:58 PM
Hi Jhu:

___It appears as if you found your Jetta's SAHM mode paramters. When climbing, you will want to DWL and maintain your new found SAHM mode while speed droops. DWL for those not SG-II equipped is flying blind as they can only bascially lock down the accelerator pedal. We on the other hand are SG-II equipped and have a whole new set of tools to use and explore. This is just one reason why we can pull such great highway numbers. Lock in SAHM and hold it going up and hold it on the flats while barely acclerating when needed. Downhills... Well you know what to do there ;)

___SAHM is just an acronym as there is no Atkinson mode in the HCH-II, Accord, Rangter or your Jetta. It simply mimics SHM which is a very light atkinson mode with no current flowing (or only a very small amount) into or out of the pack of a Prius-II, III or TCH. The FFH lacks this capability...

___Good Luck

___Wayne

Taliesin
08-08-2009, 05:33 PM
___The Ranger had one as well but I have long forgotten its parameters.

:(

Anyone else have these parameters?

And here we thought xcel was a god and it turns out he is just a mortal hero. :D

xcel
08-08-2009, 06:42 PM
Hi Taliesin:

___xcel is a figment of the internet :D

___Good Luck

___Wayne

Kacey Green
08-09-2009, 12:57 AM
There was a discussion of what our digital self is capable of when compared with our mortal self. Interesting concept.



Copyright 2006 Clean MPG, LLC. All Rights Reserved.