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Another week, another recal! :p

Hopefully it is the start of some good things for us all. :)

66F, no wind, overcast:


99.1mpg for 22.4mi (Home to work)

The tank is down to 108.5mpg over 982.5mi with 10 of 20 bars remaining on the fuel gauge.

Sean, I've heard from very reliable sources that a Prius doesn't have recals.:p:D The temperature is 62F and the wind is SW@ <5 mph. The daily average is at 101.0 for the day.
92.6 6.3
111 6.3

Thanks, Larry. :p I'm hoping to go full electric rather than get another hybrid. ;)

Thanks, Larry. :p I'm hoping to go full electric rather than get another hybrid. ;)
Just glad I could "help".:D I definitely hear you on going full electric, or as close to it as I can get. That is one reason the Enginer package looks so appealing.

I'm beginning to think my pack may be approaching its last legs as I'm getting a recal just about every 2 weeks now. If I get a new pack you can be sure I'll treat it better than the last owner did!

6.9mi into work this morning @ 43.2mpg

Sean, I've heard from very reliable sources that a Prius doesn't have recals.:p:D The temperature is 62F and the wind is SW@ <5 mph. The daily average is at 101.0 for the day.
92.6 6.3
111 6.3

I would rather have Seans mileage and deal with the battery issues. i don't think a prius could get close in MPG on the roads he drives...

I'm back in TorqueNada finally, 32.6 on the way in. Over the weekend, did some more repairs on the 1990 Dodge Spirit, including some white spray paint to cover up the 2' wide peeled paint / rust streak on the roof. Changed oil & filters, fixed some vacuum lines, it runs pretty nice. The Spirit seems to be heading for a first tank of about 25mpg.

I'm glad to hear you've got your trusted steed back, Ken. :)

I got lucky on the early part of my drive but couldn't quite maintain it all the way home.

82F, 5mph head/crosswind from the NNW, partly cloudy:


119.1mpg for 22.3mi (Work to home with a detour to avoid traffic)

The tank is back up to 108.8mpg over 1004.8mi with 9 of 20 bars remaining on the fuel gauge.

Day Total: 108.1mpg over 44.7mi

With the temperature reaching a high of 79F and wind SW@ 10-15 mph, I nearly mirrored this mornings numbers. Translation: LOUSY TRAFFIC!:mad::angry: The biggest problem came from some nimrod unloading roofing shingles by parking out on the county road. What makes this so frustrating is that he was parked directly across the road from a t-intersection of a rarely traveled subdivision road. What an idiot! It was particularly frustrating because it was also a rare occasion where no one was behind me and I could have gotten 3/4 mile+ out of the 35 mph glide but instead got only 3/8 if that much.
92.6 6.3-home to wife's work
111 6.3-wife's work to home
95.5 6.3-home to wife's work
111 6.3-wife's work to home
The daily average was 101.8 mpg and the FCD is still reading 99.9+ mpg after ~40 miles.

Midday trip gave 28.1 home, 41.7 back! Its been quite a while since I broke 40mpg on the way to the new shop. Filled the Spirit, it did well, 27.2 mpg for its first tank! :D The tires have been pressed to 50 front 45 rear as of Saturday, so that affected only the last 130 miles of the 384. Should be a nice little car for the girls to drive... same size engine as TorqueNada but it will run circles around the old blue beasty, its fairly quick, responds well to minimal throttle inputs.

no numbers today. I lent my sg to a coworker/friend to scan his wife's Volvo...Tom, Craig, Kacey, you better not have anything to do with this.

mums the word guys.

It seems it had been awhile since I've checked my tire pressures and I discovered that they had dropped to their lowest levels since the day I bought the tires; they had dropped below 85 psi. They are all better now.:p:D

2 work >
- 23.7 / 13.4 miles (73F SW@6)

home >
- 23.7 / 13.0 miles (84F SW@9)

interesting the same MPG for each trip:confused:

daily avg - 23.7 (6 days over 22.5):Banane18:
tank is just under 3/4 with 167.9 on the odo (SG says 23.2 avg)

i had a pretty awesome day. on my way to work, which i always consider the uphill half of my commute, i managed a 64.3 for the 60 miles. no head or tail wind.

68.1 home, aided by a tailwind. still a good day. all on the highway, doing between 55 and 60.

Nice work, Laurie!! :D:thumbs_up:

No driving for me just yet. I've got another appointment a little later in the morning so I'll take 'Lantrific for a spin.

It seems like I'm on another of my consistency streaks again. I just wish they were consistently higher numbers though.:p The temperature is 68F and the wind is SW@ 5 mph. The daily average is at 100.3 mpg.
92.2 6.3
110 6.3

No trip avg this morning, sg is still out. My co-worker still has it in his Jeep which isn't here.

Had a nice 34.0 for 26 miles in heavy traffic yesterday to a far south suburb, and pulled a 40.0 on the way back :) This morning a 38.0 to the office.

61F down, 10mph wind from the WNW, sunny,
68F back, 16mph wind from the WNW, sunny:


54.6mpg for 3.6mi (Home to doctor's office)
58.0mpg for 4.0mi (Doctor's office to home)

The tank is back up a tad to 55.5mpg over 32.3mi with 15.4g left.

Day Total: 56.4mpg over 7.7mi

This tank is going to take a LONG time to finish. ;)

The weather stinks.:( Thunderstorms with moderate rain and wet roads all the way to school are going to make it difficult for me to hit 100 for the day. The trip home will have to be spectacular. The daily average is at 99.1 mpg.
92.2 6.3
110 6.3
105 6.3
110 6.3
89.5 10.4

no sg, so no numbers today...Guessgauge looks to be normal.

50,55mpg on the bike.

no sg, so no numbers today...Guessgauge looks to be normal.

Normal to what?? :D 200+%??

2 work >
- 23.3 /13.4 miles (66F Calm)

home >
- 24.7 / 13.1 miles (84F W@8)

daily avg - 24.0 (7 days over 22.5)
Tank is up to 23.3 (SG) 194.8 miles at 5/8 a tank

315miles and yet to breach the half tank mark...the second half is usually a bit slower than the first ;).

another day above 60 on the way to work.

on the way home i had a stiff tail/cross wind, plus for a good 30 miles i side drafted a train that runs next to the road. i managed to make all the lights while we were riding side to side. i managed to pull off 70MPG all the way home on the highway!

784 miles so far on this tank. Unfortunately, the 1/4 tank on the guess gauge is way to optimistic.

Is there a thread anywhere that lists what vehicles have done kilo-tanks?

Nice work, Laurie!!

No, not that I'm aware of Craig. My record in the Elantra is 1111.9mi -- there aren't many 1000+mi tanks in gas or diesel vehicles. Many Insights have done it (1567.4mi for me) and a fair number of Prius drivers have done it.

Only 53F this morning, no wind, clear:


105.5mpg for 22.4mi (Home to work)

The tank is still hanging on at 108.8mpg over 1027.2mi with 8 of 20 bars remaining on the fuel gauge.

Yesterday was a day I'd certainly rather not repeat.:(The Prius just does not like rain and wet roads. I drove home from school in heavy rain with thunder and lightning and some pretty nasty winds to. There were severe thunderstorm warnings out for my area.:eek:
92.2 6.3-home to wife's work
110 6.3-wife's work to home
105 6.3-home to wife's work
110 6.3-wife's work to home
89.5 10.4-home to school
84.5 10.3-school to home
The average for yesterday was 95.4 mpg

As if yesterday wasn't enough with the bad weather, today was a little more of the same. The temperature was 66F and the wind was calm. The roads were still wet as we had light to moderate rain. Today's average is starting out low at 93.4 mpg.
87.9 6.3
99.6 6.3

784 miles so far on this tank. Unfortunately, the 1/4 tank on the guess gauge is way to optimistic.

Is there a thread anywhere that lists what vehicles have done kilo-tanks?

Multiple prius kilo tank attempt (http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20355&highlight=aether+glider)


No sg, so no numbers this morning. I did get it back after I got to work...this morning was much better than yesterday though!

glad i don't have to fuel the FSP every week. last time i put gas in it was april 20th, and today it took 27.9 gallons. thank goodness for my speedy rewards card, since i had points racked up from driving the civic, enough for a 50 cent per gallon discount for up to 25 gallons. that brought the overall price down to just below $2.

only reason i drove it was to bring home my saddles and gear from the barn to move them to the new place on friday when the horse comes down. it's only 7 miles from my new house.

14.4MPG.

the trip yesterday to south suburbs wasn't quite as good as day before, 34.0 there, 38.9 on the way home. This morning a 31.9 on the way in.

The weather has greatly improved and so have the numbers.:) We are up to 77F and winds are NW@ 10-15 mph with gusts to ~25 mph. The daily is up to 97.6. I have ~10 miles more to go. We received a $20 gift certificate to a restaurant in Wakarusa from our Church; they sent one to each of the families that have been affected by unemployment. As cool as that is though, the route will be on my prime FE route to boot.:cool:
87.9 6.3
99.6 6.3
94.7 6.3
111 6.3

I had one of those "If only!" trips home. Some people just should not be allowed to have licenses. :rolleyes:

79F, 13mph cross/headwind from the W, overcast:


119.8mpg for 22.2mi (Work to home)

The tank is back up to 109.0mpg over 1049.5mi with 8 of 20 bars remaining on the fuel gauge.

Day Total: 112.0mpg over 44.6mi

sg2 is busted. fell from shoulder height and cracked the screen :(

sg2 is busted. fell from shoulder height and cracked the screen :(

I can't even make a joke about it - that would REALLY bum me out. Is your work mate going to pay for a new one?

Wednesday Morning Update

Reporting Period|Trip Dstnc [mi]|Trip Gllns|Trip Fl Ecnm [mpg]|% of EPA
Evening Home
|29
|.49
|59.2
|281.9%

Week to Date
|176.3
|2.69
|65.5
|312.1%

Tank SVT
|843
|13.4
|62.6
|298.1%

FEVI SVT
|2492.24
|44.351
|56.2
|267.6%

Whew! That was close! Thanks to a couple of good segments from our trip to a free supper, I have slightly redeemed myself from yesterday's disappointing numbers by topping the 100 mpg level.:flag:
87.9 6.3-home to wife's work
99.6 6.3-wife's work to home
94.7 6.3-home to wife's work
111 6.3-wife's work to home
101 4.8-home to Wakarusa for supper
117 4.9-Wakarusa to home
Average for today was 100.4 mpg.

way to go craig and larry, some exellent numbers!

2 work >
- 23.0 / 13.4 miles (66F Calm)

home >
- 26.0 / 13.1 miles (86F N@8 tail wind)

daily avg = 24.5 (8 days over 22.5) Likely to reset this weekend if I go to the recycling yard:(
tank is at just above 1/2 with the odo at 221.7 miles (SG avg is up to 23.4) :Banane18:

This morning's number looks kinda familiar. :p

Wet roads and road construction made things a little more difficult today, but at least the traffic was reasonably low.

56F, 1mph cross/headwind from the SW, overcast:


105.5mpg for 22.4mi (Home to work)

The tank is back down to 108.8mpg over 1071.9mi with 8 of 20 bars remaining on the fuel gauge.

This morning's number looks kinda familiar. :p

Wet roads and road construction made things a little more difficult today, but at least the traffic was reasonably low.

56F, 1mph cross/headwind from the SW, overcast:


105.5mpg for 22.4mi (Home to work)

The tank is back down to 108.8mpg over 1071.9mi with 8 of 20 bars remaining on the fuel gauge.
OK, this thing of Indiana being colder than Minnesota is starting to get old.:p:D I had 52F and the wind was calm. The daily average is at 100.2 mpg.
88.7 6.3
115 6.3

Hey, I think that this thing of July being "cold" is getting old! :p

Hey, I think that this thing of July being "cold" is getting old! :p
No arguments here. I'm hoping we have some kind of a summer before winter sets in.

I can't even make a joke about it - that would REALLY bum me out. Is your work mate going to pay for a new one?

It was after he gave it to me. I thought the cable was connected to the sg, but it wasn't in all the way. I guess I wished he would've told me that as he just kinda gave me the sg back in a bundle with the cord. I wont tell him to get me a new one as I had it when it happened.
I guess I'll have to go without. I'm a bit bummed, but I'm still going based on what it's taught me. I guess I'll see how I do without it for the rest of the tank.

Thursday Morning Update

Reporting Period|Trip Dstnc [mi]|Trip Gllns|Trip Fl Ecnm [mpg]|% of EPA
Morning to Work
|29.2
|.38
|76.9
|366.2%

Week to Date
|205.5
|3.07
|66.9
|318.75%

Tank SVT
|872
|13.8
|63.0
|300%

FEVI SVT
|2521.24
|44.751
|56.3
|268.3%

It was after he gave it to me. I thought the cable was connected to the sg, but it wasn't in all the way. I guess I wished he would've told me that as he just kinda gave me the sg back in a bundle with the cord. I wont tell him to get me a new one as I had it when it happened.
I guess I'll have to go without. I'm a bit bummed, but I'm still going based on what it's taught me. I guess I'll see how I do without it for the rest of the tank.

Is it repairable? There might be someone on the forum that could help it a little (assuming it is not cracked wide open) ...

a small crack on the left side eliminated both "top readings" and half of the bottom left.

way to go craig and larry, some exellent numbers!

2 work >
- 23.0 / 13.4 miles (66F Calm)

home >
- 26.0 / 13.1 miles (86F N@8 tail wind)

daily avg = 24.5 (8 days over 22.5) Likely to reset this weekend if I go to the recycling yard:(
tank is at just above 1/2 with the odo at 221.7 miles (SG avg is up to 23.4) :Banane18:

THANKS!!

I can't believe I (temporarily) brought the tank average up to 300% of the 2008 EPA combined rating!! Too bad I cant just tow it home (uphill).

Wait a second, NOW I know how dem der P&Gers do it. You guys just tow your car up a mountain and glide down it. EVERYBODY knows that stuff doesn't really work (/sarcasm).

In all seriousness, I am planning on working late tonight so I can completely avoid rush hour. My guess gage is starting to complain and I REALLY want to see if I can hit a kilo tank. I'm going to grab a 1 gal container of gas tonight and put it in the trunk for tomorrow's commute.

a small crack on the left side eliminated both "top readings" and half of the bottom left.

Sorry to hear about the SG.

eh it's fine..it was good while it lasted, but I don't think it'll hamper me much as my basic commute is the same...and I think I know my car well enough now...maybe not so well steady state driving though.

The daily is up to 102.7 mpg. Here's hoping for an awesome trip to school and back.
88.7 6.3
115 6.3
96.4 6.3
116 6.3

I couldn't quite match what I did yesterday. Too much wind and a lot more traffic... I took two detours.

73F, 14mph cross/headwind from the W, sunny:


116.3mpg for 21.9mi (Work to home)

The tank is back up to 109.0mpg over 1093.9mi with 8 of 20 bars remaining on the fuel gauge.

Day Total: 110.4mpg over 44.4mi

That SoC is still sitting at 6 bars -- I'm not willing to take the mileage hit letting it force charge the rest of the way up so it only charges when I need to slow down. :p

Well that wasn't very spectacular.:( The daily is down to 99.3. Here's hoping the trip home is better.
88.7 6.3
115 6.3
96.4 6.3
116 6.3
92.1 10.4

2 work >
- 22.7 / 13.4 miles (73F calm with T storms in the area)

work 2 home >
- 25.4 / 13.1 miles (78F N@5)

daily avg - 24.0 (9 days over 22.5 technically 22.8 :D) (but P&G doesn't work, right)
tank is at 248.6 miles at 23.4 avg and the needle is still on the half mark but on the bottom side;)

I just couldn't pull off 100 mpg today.:( Pushy traffic in key spots pretty well killed any hopes of a 100+ trip home. Oh well, tomorrow is another day.
88.7 6.3-home to wife's work
115 6.3-wife's work to home
96.4 6.3-home to wife's work
116 6.3-wife's work to home
92.1 10.4-home to school
98.2 10.3-school to home
Average for today was 99.1 mpg.

On a brighter note, my son got 96.1 for the 4.9 mile trip home from Wakarusa tonight. He was at 102 at the end of our drive but by the time he got backed into the garage, it had dropped.

Well guys, it happened this morning. The dreaded IMA light. I can't say I haven't been expecting this with the frequency of recals. :(

I was only a couple of miles into my trip when the car started another recal -- from 6 bars! It went all the way down to 1 (!) bar, came up to 5, then popped the IMA and CEL lights and promptly ran the SoC all the way up to 19 bars. The DC-DC converter still works, the car still starts using the 144V system, and assist/regen work for a total of 2s after bump starting. After that, assist and regen are gone... along with autostop. Otherwise the car drives normally.

In other words, I'm seeing exactly the same behavior as IamIan described here (http://www.insightcentral.net/forums/modifications-technical-issues/13699-beyond-p1447-p1449.html). After arriving at work I checked the single code the car had thrown with my SG-1 and found it had a stored P1449.

From a different thread over on InsightCentral I find:

Battery Thermal Distribution:
Less of an Issue with less battery usage.
More of an issue with more battery usage.

Usually only becomes an issue when high capacity and low capacity cells are combined. Thermal issues (P1449) happen when a weak cell is stressed - usually at heavy discharge, like accelerating onto a highway.

I'm at a loss on this one as I simply don't use assist.

The car has 90,6xxmi on the ODO so I'm covered under the extended warranty. I'm tempted to clear the CEL to see if the IMA light will go out but I'd rather just go in and get this battery swapped out under warranty so I can get away from all these recals. Now I have to find a dealership to trust. :p

Anyway, 52F, no wind, clear:


98.2mpg for 22.4mi (Home to work... thanks, recal :p)

The tank is back down to 108.8mpg over 1116.4mi with 7 of 20 bars remaining on the fuel gauge.

torrential rains and flood warnings, Some lincoln navigator cut off what looked like a yaris liftback in front of me @ the stoplight...(the light was red, turned green and the mess, this jerk decided he was gonna go first with the bigger vehicle :mad:). The yaris driver did lay on the horn though!...

oh yeah..no numbers...I'm sure they're not over 40mpg.

Well guys, it happened this morning. The dreaded IMA light. I can't say I haven't been expecting this with the frequency of recals. :(

I was only a couple of miles into my trip when the car started another recal -- from 6 bars! It went all the way down to 1 (!) bar, came up to 5, the popped the IMA and CEL lights and promptly ran the SoC all the way up to 19 bars. The DC-DC converter still works, the car still starts using the 144V system, and assist/regen work for a total of 2s after bump starting. After that, assist and regen are gone... along with autostop. Otherwise the car drives normally.

In other words, I'm seeing exactly the same behavior as IamIan described here (http://www.insightcentral.net/forums/modifications-technical-issues/13699-beyond-p1447-p1449.html). After arriving at work I checked the single code the car had thrown with my SG-1 and found it had a stored P1449.

From a different thread over on InsightCentral I find:



I'm at a loss on this one as I simply don't use assist.

The car has 90,6xxmi on the ODO so I'm covered under the extended warranty. I'm tempted to clear the CEL to see if the IMA light will go out but I'd rather just go in and get this battery swapped out under warranty so I can get away from all these recals. Now I have to find a dealership to trust. :p

Anyway, 52F, no wind, clear:


98.2mpg for 22.4mi (Home to work... thanks, recal :p)

The tank is back down to 108.8mpg over 1116.4mi with 7 of 20 bars remaining on the fuel gauge.
Bummer!:( This probably is more of a reflection on the previous owner than on you.I hope you can get this taken care of quickly and smoothly.

I'm thankful that my day is going well so far. The temperature is 59F and the wind is NW@ 5 mph. The daily average is 102.1 mpg.
91.8 6.3
115 6.3

IIBSWADS was fully functional today - PB on the way into work

Friday Morning Update

Reporting Period|Trip Dstnc [mi]|Trip Gllns|Trip Fl Ecnm [mpg]|% of EPA
Morning to Work
|29.4
|.364
|80.8
|384.8%

Week to Date
|263.9
|3.9
|67.7
|322.22%

Tank SVT
|930
|14.6
|63.4
|301.9%

FEVI SVT
|2579.24
|45.551
|56.623
|269.6%

I found a dealership around here that has repeat first gen Insight customers to the service department and made an appointment for 10AM tomorrow. I've been unwilling to trust the car to any shop so far (other than getting the tires replaced) because it can be easily damaged by those who don't know how to work on them.

Hopefully everything goes smoothly!! :eek:

Craig, maybe I'm just dense this morning but IIBSWADS doesn't mean anything to me. Would you please elaborate?

I found a dealership around here that has repeat first gen Insight customers to the service department and made an appointment for 10AM tomorrow. I've been unwilling to trust the car to any shop so far (other than getting the tires replaced) because it can be easily damaged by those who don't know how to work on them.

Hopefully everything goes smoothly!! :eek:

Craig, maybe I'm just dense this morning but IIBSWADS doesn't mean anything to me. Would you please elaborate?

:D Intelligent Interface Between Steering Wheel And Drivers Seat :D

Translation - I wasn't an idiot this morning

I think I only hit the brakes 2 or 3 times this morning. The worst incident was a 10 mph - 0 mph momentum loss ...

I think I'm done for the day. It was a good day too.:flag: The temperature is 78F and the ind is NW@10-15 mph.
91.8 6.3-home to wife's work
115 6.3-back home
94.1 6.4-home to wife's work
117 6.3-back home
Average for today is 103.2 mpg.

40.7 on the way in this morning, let SonOfASlowHands take it for part of the day. He came back from home with a big grin as he pulled a 40.2 :D He can do it, I just wish he'd do it more often....

I had a good trip home. Now remember, I don't use the battery and since I've got an IMA light, I can't use the battery. ;)

79F, 13mph tail/crosswind from the SSW, sunny:


125.9mpg for 21.8mi (Work to home)

The tank is back up to 109.0mpg over 1138.2mi with 7 of 20 bars remaining on the fuel gauge.

Anyone left out there who still thinks the Insight's insane mileage is because of the HV battery? :p

Day Total: 110.2mpg over 44.2mi

I'm set to bring in the Insight tomorrow with paperwork proving it is under warranty. From what I'm told it could take a week to get the replacement pack and modules in so I may be driving like this for several more days.

Well guys, it happened this morning. The dreaded IMA light. I can't say I haven't been expecting this with the frequency of recals. :(


It isn't as serious as most people build it up to be.

You have a large number of options to address this issue.


I was only a couple of miles into my trip when the car started another recal -- from 6 bars! It went all the way down to 1 (!) bar, came up to 5, then popped the IMA and CEL lights and promptly ran the SoC all the way up to 19 bars. The DC-DC converter still works, the car still starts using the 144V system, and assist/regen work for a total of 2s after bump starting. After that, assist and regen are gone... along with autostop. Otherwise the car drives normally.

In other words, I'm seeing exactly the same behavior as IamIan described here (http://www.insightcentral.net/forums/modifications-technical-issues/13699-beyond-p1447-p1449.html). After arriving at work I checked the single code the car had thrown with my SG-1 and found it had a stored P1449.


As long as the DC-DC system does not get disabled you can continue to drive the car as it is... as you report you won't get the OEM Assist , Regen, or Auto-Stop.

It should not effect the Lean Burn, fuel cut while doing engine braking ... or much else in the way the Insight handles.

Your ScanGauge can easily tell you the 12V battery voltage so you can keep and eye on that and how the DC-DC is doing... the IMA system will continue to do background regen in order to power the DC-DC... like an alternator ... It will also continue to track and update the Dash SoC display under the same calculations it always uses.


I'm at a loss on this one as I simply don't use assist.


The Heat in the IMA battery pack is not evenly distributed at all weather you use assist or not.

For a clear view see the picture of the heat distribution on Page #6 in:
Thermal Evaluation of the Honda Insight Battery Pack (http://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy01osti/30095.pdf)
This is a 9 page pdf ( also linked to in the Insight Library links )

The error code just means that some part of the pack got out of the temperature range the BCM likes... it only has to happen for a moment to trip the error code... there are many other ways parts of the battery pack can build up temperature without the use of Assist.


The car has 90,6xxmi on the ODO so I'm covered under the extended warranty.


By all means the easiest option for you is to just use the warranty.


I'm tempted to clear the CEL to see if the IMA light will go out but I'd rather just go in and get this battery swapped out under warranty so I can get away from all these recals.


That would be another option if for some reason you choose not to just use the Warranty.

You can do the fuse pull procedure or just disconnect the 12V battery for ~1Minute.

Either way when you start the car back up I would recommend letting it idle until the SoC gauge stops climbing... weather or not it shows any regen on the dash display... the light might still come back if there is a serious issue ... but if it was an isolated event ... the IMA light could stay off for a long time.

-------------

If they fight you on the warranty don't go dishing out thousands of dollars for them to fix it... either fight until they give you the warranty work... or do any number of the several other much less expensive methods to address the issue... or as long as the 12V system keeps being charged from the DC-DC system you can run like that indefinitely.

------------

Either way ... don't let it stress you out any ... and best of luck.

27,1mpg yesterday in my Mom's Mazda helping a friend move (and get some dollar beers at Applebee's!)

Filled up the MZ3 today. 52 mpg for the tank. Todays efforts were good for 48 mpg with some freeway on ramp fun, running the speed limit's and throwing some fas in. I really like the MZ3,,, what a car. :)

I just reluctantly handed over the keys to a service tech, and watched them idle her. :(

I asked them not to reset any trip odometers but who knows what they'll do.

64F, 20mph tail/crosswind from the WNW, partly cloudy:


103.1mpg for 13.2mi (Home to Honda dealership)

The tank remains at 109.0mpg over 1151.4mi with 6 of 20 bars on the fuel gauge.

Lifetime is up to 90.7mpg with an ODO reading of 90739mi.

A very good day for FE. It's possible that segment 5 may be a PB as well.:flag: The temperature is 78F and the wind is SW@ 15-20 mph.
100 9.7-home to Meijer
85.2 6.8-Meijer to pick up daughter at camp
115 5.2-camp to home
91.0 4.6-home to my mom's
164 4.6-mom's to home
Average for today is 102.8 mpg.

Just got a call from the Service Department over at the Honda Dealership and the guy started out by telling me I do need a new battery pack. I said okay and then he started telling me I might need a new BCM and new MCM and that the first was over $2k and the second was $880, and he couldn't check on the price for the pack because American Honda Motor Co. was closed for the weekend.

I knew at that point he hadn't a clue about the warranty. :rolleyes: I asked him to pull up SB 06-057... he put me on hold, then said he had it up and said he'd have to check with AHMC on Monday to see about warranty coverage etc. :thumbs_up:

I think I'm good to go! We'll find out early next week I suppose. :p

then he started telling me I might need a new BCM and new MCM and that the first was over $2k and the second was $880, and he couldn't check on the price for the pack because American Honda Motor Co. was closed for the weekend.


I have my doubts about the additional BCM and MCM replacements.

But even if you do go ahead with getting replacements .... that $ Quote isn't any kind of a deal on them... they are cheaper to buy even new than that price:

MCM (http://www.hondaautomotiveparts.com/auto/jsp/mws/prddisplay.jsp?inputstate=5&catcgry1=INSIGHT&catcgry2=2000&catcgry3=3DR+DX+A%2FC&catcgry4=KA5MT&catcgry5=IMA+BATTERY-ECU) $580.03 New See Item Illustration # 018 Part# 413610 .... much better than $880.... still new ... still directly from a Honda Dealer... and they are still turning a profit at $580.

BCM they are not probably giving any deals on either... if they are over listing the BCM as much as they are over listing the MCM... then it should be more like ~$1,325 New.

The IMA Battery is Honda Part# 1D010PHM999RM... AllData lists it New for $1,989 ... not that it should cost you anything at all with the warranty...

Honda Lists it as approximately ~72 Minutes Labor to replace all three the BCM, MCM, & IMA Battery... anyone who has done it more than once should have no trouble doing it correctly in less time than that.

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Those are some rookie mistakes... Best of luck... I hope after they look into it more ... they come back better informed.

I have my doubts about the additional BCM and MCM replacements.

But even if you do go ahead with getting replacements .... that $ Quote isn't any kind of a deal on them... they are cheaper to buy even new than that price:

MCM (http://www.hondaautomotiveparts.com/auto/jsp/mws/prddisplay.jsp?inputstate=5&catcgry1=INSIGHT&catcgry2=2000&catcgry3=3DR+DX+A%2FC&catcgry4=KA5MT&catcgry5=IMA+BATTERY-ECU) $580.03 New See Item Illustration # 018 Part# 413610 .... much better than $880.... still new ... still directly from a Honda Dealer... and they are still turning a profit at $580.

BCM they are not probably giving any deals on either... if they are over listing the BCM as much as they are over listing the MCM... then it should be more like ~$1,325 New.

The IMA Battery is Honda Part# 1D010PHM999RM... AllData lists it New for $1,989 ... not that it should cost you anything at all with the warranty...

Honda Lists it as approximately ~72 Minutes Labor to replace all three the BCM, MCM, & IMA Battery... anyone who has done it more than once should have no trouble doing it correctly in less time than that.

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Those are some rookie mistakes... Best of luck... I hope after they look into it more ... they come back better informed.

I could look it up myself, but I am feeling kind of lazy and was wondering if you knew off the top of your head what the kwhr ratings of the Honda pack is and if they are all the same size ...

Hi, Ian. The SB 06-057 specifies a replacement pack and a replacement BCM for '02-'04. Earlier Insights are supposed to get all three… none are listed as just requiring a pack replacement.

I agree on the prices, but as you said it shouldn't matter if covered by the warranty. My hope is that now I've drawn their attention to that SB everything will work out. Fingers crossed!!

Meanwhile, I'll be driving the Elantra until this is resolved.

I could look it up myself, but I am feeling kind of lazy and was wondering if you knew off the top of your head what the kwhr ratings of the Honda pack is and if they are all the same size ...

All of the new Insight Gen-I packs from Panasonic are the same 120 cells 1.2V each cell 6.5Ah each cell = 0.936 kWh if charged up to 100% SoC and discharged to 0% SoC.... but in order to prolong battery service life ... they avoid the top and bottom parts of SoC... Additionally due to Peukert Effects the harder the charge and or discharge rates the less of the cells full possible capacity ends up being available as actual usable service capacity... so in short even a 100% new pack will never see all 936Wh used... between the underrating for longevity and Peukert effects ... it is probably closer to ~500Wh of actual usable capacity... which also is reduced with age , pack out of balance issues , and temperature changes.

Not all batteries that Honda uses are new... some are refurbished battery packs... Honda does not publicly disclose ( That I know of ) what standards they use for the refurbished packs... it might be 6Ah or maybe as low as 5Ah , before the de-rating and Peukert effects come into account... I doubt it would be less than 5Ah... but without the public disclosure it is not known for certain.

On of the most important things for the BCM is that the cells are matched as closely as they can be... for Ah of capacity... but also internal resistance... and any possible voltage depression.... and self discharge rate.... etc...

Some of the other Honda HEV battery packs are not the identical specifications as the Insight Gen-I.

Although there are three different IMA battery Part #'s for Gen-I Insights:
2000-2002 1D010-PHM-A00RM
2003-2004 1D010-PHM-A01RM
2005-2006 1D010-PHM-A02RM

Hi, Ian. The SB 06-057 specifies a replacement pack and a replacement BCM for '02-'04. Earlier Insights are supposed to get all three… none are listed as just requiring a pack replacement.


Agreed.

What I was writing about is that I doubt those modules are actually bad / need replaced.


06-057 stands on top of and references to other SBs... It does not stand alone or replace all those other SBs... the warranty coverage is the sum total of all related documents.

Like 00-070 Only references the IMA battery Module ... but it is the only one that also references 2000-2006 model year Insights ... the rest all stop at 2004 Model Year Insights.

data from yesterday, I thought I was going to go the recycling yard today but just couldn't pull myself up to do it.:o (stayed home and played with the kids)

2 work >
- 22.4 / 13.4 miles (66F Calm)

Home >
- 24.0 / 13.2 miles (81 calm)

daily avg - 23.2 (10 days over 22.5 for something that is 15 MPG combined)
tank is steady at 23.4 (SG) 275.4 miles and sits between 1/2 and 3/8

Wow sean, it seems you may do better without the batter pack :eek:
:eek: 164, that is Awesome Larry.

Ian, it is my understanding that some of the earlier hardware cannot be flashed to newer code, so replacement hardware is called for in order to get the newer management parameters into the vehicle. Specifically, the DOD is modified to be smaller with the top end further from 100% and the lower end further from 0% than the original specifications designed for the car. As long as they don't make it more assist prone I doubt I'll notice much difference other than the reported inability to hit 20 bars SoC after the replacement (and of course, the missing recals ;)).

Thanks, Jason. :) You should see some of the numbers I was turning in last summer. I wasn't using the battery then, either. :D

Oh, and Larry? That's just silly. :p :D:thumbs_up:

: 164, that is Awesome Larry.



Oh, and Larry? That's just silly. :p :D:thumbs_up:
:D I guess my car is having another Insight identity crisis. :D Imagine what I could have done by force-charging before I left.:eek: I hope I can do a repeat for today's trip to Church and back since it's essentially the same trip.

The numbers weren't as high as I hoped but they were still pretty good. It's difficult to overcome two S1 hits on short segments.:p
88.2 4.9-home to Church
108 5.4-Church to home
Average for today was 97.6 mpg.

On an even brighter note, I got my best lead on a job today. Soon after I got laid off, I heard, from an inside source at the local nursing home, that a maintainence supervisor position was opening up the next day. I went to a meeting the next day at my Church for a newly formed support group for unemployed people. As I was thinking of keeping the information to myself, a friend walked in who used to work in maintenance at one of my previous jobs. I knew then that I had to tell him especially since I have nearly 0 experience when it comes to that area. He walked out of the meeting on a Friday morning, applied for the job, and started the next Monday. Today, I heard that the same nursing home is looking for someone to help with floor maintenance. I heard about this position from...you guessed it...the same guy I gave the advanced information to. It's only $11/hr to start but it's less than 5 miles from home.

Larry, a job is a job -- and you know it is always easier to get a job if you have one!

I REALLY hope you can get it. Good luck!!

By the way, what ever happened about that phone call you spoke of a couple of weeks ago?

Larry, a job is a job -- and you know it is always easier to get a job if you have one!

I REALLY hope you can get it. Good luck!!

By the way, what ever happened about that phone call you spoke of a couple of weeks ago?
I should clarify that I'm excited about this job despite the wage level. I would be working with some great people and, if I ever got to feeling down about my circumstances, I would only have to look around at the residents and I could quickly find someone to remind me how well I have it.

As for the other job, it's still in limbo as the company isn't supposed to be in full operation until later this month. This current opportunity may turn out to be the better position as the earlier opportunity would be with many of the same people who cause great amounts of frustration from the company-wide lack of communication and organization. More pay doesn't always = better job. I won't rule it out if I do hear something from them though.

Sean, sorry to hear about ol blue swayed having battery problems, hope you get er fixed up soon and back to your fuel sipping ways :)
I saw a blue insight yesterday driving quite slowly, and thought for sure it was you, but i got closer and noticed a little bumper sticker that said "war is not the answer":rolleyes: and knew it was just a wannabe, not the real blue swayed ;)

Thanks, Michael! I have to admit I don't like having the car out of my hands... I worry about what they might do to it. :(

Hopefully I can get it back before the end of this week with my tires still at the pressure I had them, all the trip odometers untouched, and the recals GONE.

YES!! Finally made 100% of my EPA guesstimate of what my Mustang should do. 17,93mpg on this tank put it over the top :Banane25: :Banane35:

Well... It's already the new week for me, but I filled up Friday...

No new records, but an extremely respectable 40.1 mpg for the fillup.

My schedule this week is going to be pretty messed up. On my way to work at 5pm or so and heading home at 6:30am or so.