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http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/2/AmericanFlag.jpg Believe it or not, even some environmentalists are against the new law. They point out that it will end the lives of perfectly serviceable vehicles with years of life left. (http://abcnews.go.com/Business/Story?id=8154897&page=1)

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/501/Hummer_H2_News.jpgELISABETH LEAMY and NATHALIE TADENA - GO (http://abcnews.go.com) - July 24, 2009

Is it better to just sell your car at whatever it's worth and buy used? I guess yet another perspective faulting oversight of the program. --Ed.

Americans will get a new incentive to trade-in their gas-guzzling cars today when a government rebate program that offers cash vouchers to people who trade in their cars for new fuel- efficient vehicles officially starts.
The Car Allowance Rebate System, informally called "Cash for Clunkers," was passed by Congress in June to help jump-start struggling auto sales and to improve the environment.

It will be administered by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration through participating new car dealers who can handle the paperwork when you buy the vehicle.

Information about the program is available at www.cars.gov.

Here's how it works: If you own a 1984 or newer vehicle that has been insured and registered to you for the past year and gets a "combined" 18 miles to the gallon or less, you can qualify. The car must also be drivable.

If you trade it in for a car that gets an additional four more miles per gallon or more, your reward is a $3,500 voucher, which can be used toward purchasing a new car... http://abcnews.go.com/Business/Story?id=8154897&page=1

It would seem this program is for old guzzlers to upgraded to new guzzlers.

It would seem this program is for old guzzlers to upgraded to new guzzlers.

In most cases, probably.

I am hoping to convince someone to trade in a '99 Escalade (trade-in value of $3K, so take the $4.5K from the government instead) and 2000 Mustang (trade-in value of $4K) for a Prius or Insight (possibly a Fusion Hybrid, Escape Hybrid, or Jetta TDI). The gas saved would more than make the car payments.

It could potentially be clunkers for clunkers (since they allow cars that get 22 mpg on the list). I suppose in terms of CO2 it makes more sense. Most older cars, regardless of their mileage, are not up to the CO2 standards of modern cars (I've seen a lot of cars from 2000 and earlier with ratings as low as 2). I guess we'll see what the real numbers are once the program is over (who traded what for what and how much gas, CO2, etc was saved as a result).

-P

Actually, CO2 is directly related to how much fuel is burned. Other emissions (such as NOX) are not because they can be controlled (to some extent) by the emissions system.

It would seem this program is for old guzzlers to upgraded to new guzzlers.

I wonder how many of the old guzzlers were purchased when the governement gave tax discounts for heavy vehicles. Sure it was intended for companies to buy farm and other heavy equipment and not just some big FSP for the boss to drive, but it happened all the time. You have to wonder if the laws get passed this way because of oversight or because the people in charge are setting up themselves and their companies for the discounts. Thanks a lot guys....:flag:

Perhaps with that clunker money you could trade in a 2000 Ford Excursion at 12/8 hiway/city mpg for a Ford Escape at 25/19 hiway/city mpg. So progress is being made. :eyebrow:

:eek:It get's worse.

You can trade a 16mpg small truck for an 18mpg, or a 14mpg large truck for a 15, but that only gets you $3500. It's 13 to 18 and 13 to 15 to get $4500. Equal incentive to get a large truck as small. :woot:

Of course, what this is really about is sending customers to Government Motors and Chrysler.

Saving fuel is just a smokescreen, isn't it?

Harry

Of course, what this is really about is sending customers to Government Motors and Chrysler.

Saving fuel is just a smokescreen, isn't it?

You beat me to to it. This is, of course, the real point.

Certainly the intent is economic activity and not environmentalism, but I'm pretty sure that non 'American' companies participate also. In fact, I think Hyundai is the big winner so far.

I think this is a great program. I have a 94 Lexus Es 300 that gets an EPA 18 mpg and is maybe worth $1,000. In about three weeks I'm going to buy a new Prius and get $4,500 for my old FSP. The only thing I would have done differently is expand the program and make it more progressive. Give $5,500 for someone upgrading to a car that gets 15mpg or more over their clunker, $7,000 for a 20mpg improvement, etc.

I think this is a great program. I have a 94 Lexus Es 300 that gets an EPA 18 mpg and is maybe worth $1,000. In about three weeks I'm going to buy a new Prius and get $4,500 for my old FSP. The only thing I would have done differently is expand the program and make it more progressive. Give $5,500 for someone upgrading to a car that gets 15mpg or more over their clunker, $7,000 for a 20mpg improvement, etc.

Just curious on your situation Devinator. Why haven't you rid yourself of this now "clunker" Lexus long ago? You can obviously afford an efficient replacement but haven't chose to?

Only those that made poor vehicle choices in the past qualify for this handout and will only really help those already in a good position to afford a new car anyway. I hope it is not expanded in any way and after the 1st Billion is spent it is dropped.

I wonder if there will be a temporary spike in fuel efficient car prices as dealers give lower discounts to qualified clunker qualfied? If you would, let us know the priced you paid when the deal is done.

Thanks

Steve

I didn't want to get rid of my Lexus until I graduate college in a little less than 2 years because it's not worth anything and it still drives fine. Like I said in my first post, if I take advantage of this program now I get an extra $3,500 for my car, which wipes out any time value of money benefit if I wait the 2 years.

As for this program being a handout for people who made poor vehicle choices in the past, I am not proud of my FSP Lexus. The only reason I bought it was because it was my grandmother's and she gave me a big discount. I hypermile to make up for the wastefulness of my car, but as bad as my car is, I see you only get 2 more mpgs. Maybe you should see if your FSP qualifies.

The bottom line is this program will save some gas and encourage people like myself to buy more efficient cars both good things if you ask me.

The government does think my truck is a fsp it's EPA 20, the clunker must be 18 or less. I have the vehicle I want but don't expect the government to help me pay for a new car if I did have a fsp that qualified.

Do you also avoid buying corn and sugar because the government helps pay the cost with subsidies? Do you also refuse to take out a mortgage because the government gives you a tax write off to help you pay the interest? Are you going to refuse Social Security so you can say you didn't take a government handout to pay for your retirement? Get real dude, handouts are everywhere. What's amazing to me is that of all the handouts to pick on, you pick on the one that's going to save gas.