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Just ordered a 4kw conversion from engineer.us. More to come......

I am anxious to see what you think of it. I was VERY intrigued by the price. Enough that I am considering keeping the 05 to convert. With your background, I'm sure you will be able to shed light on the kit and am anxious to hear your thoughts and findings.

What is the lead time for delivery for the enginer.us kit?

Lead time is 15-20 days. On my long drive back from GDE 2009 I had time to consider the possibilities of this kit. I made a list of Pro's and Con's and found that this is kit fits my needs much better than the competition. I especially like the scaleability. The BMS is very informative and provides useful information. It can easily pinpoint a bad cell and that bad cell can be replaced in about 30 minutes at a cost of $70.

May want to correct the title of this thread so people will find it in search.
The company is called "Enginer"... not "Engineer". Only 1 "e" after the "n".

Can you provide a few more details? I could not find it in a Google search. I'm one of those crazy hypermilers that are not steeped in Prius knowledge - I am considering a MIMA like conversion for my SVT - I'm only getting 60-61 mpg and I really would like to do better than that ...

Thanks, Eric. I've updated the thread title.

Dan, do you intend to enhance the range with more batteries later?

Thanks, Eric. I've updated the thread title.

Dan, do you intend to enhance the range with more batteries later?

This is interesting (thanks to both of you for the link info). I shot them a quick note. I wonder if they are willing to think outside of their box ...

Thanks, Eric. I've updated the thread title.

Dan, do you intend to enhance the range with more batteries later?

Short answer is YES! I ordered the 4kw kit and an additionall converter to experiment with. Once I determine the best way to use the added EV/ ICE assist on my commute, I will then be able to "tune" the installation with additional batteries and converters. As long as you are willing to give up trunk space, you can add capacity in 2kw increments. The upgrades are as cost effective as well.

BTW, this should work with IMA also.

Can you provide a few more details? I could not find it in a Google search. I'm one of those crazy hypermilers that are not steeped in Prius knowledge - I am considering a MIMA like conversion for my SVT - I'm only getting 60-61 mpg and I really would like to do better than that ...

For those of you that don't currently have a hybrid, check this out.
http://www.poulsenhybrid.com/

For those of you that don't currently have a hybrid, check this out.
http://www.poulsenhybrid.com/

I am hoping that they will consider the Focus for one of the kits. Unfortunately, they have no plans to offer the components to people who want to do their own integration.

I am considering a 5th wheel for my Contour SVT. Nothing serious yet, just doing a little preliminary research. If I can figure out how to make the costs affordable, it will become serious very quickly ...

Great news Dan, I can't wait to hear about your results.

Just a word of caution wrt Li technology (although I am sure you already know this). Be very careful about the manufacturer's limitations on SOC - never violate them and try to keep yourself out of the limits. I have many colleagues working in the battery world and there is one universal rule for Li battery chemistry - if you push the limitations of range, you will trash the long term health of the battery.

I just sent them a note asking for pricing info on what it would take to get to ~40 mile AER in my Prius. Be afraid Craig!:D

Just a word of caution wrt Li technology (although I am sure you already know this). Be very careful about the manufacturer's limitations on SOC - never violate them and try to keep yourself out of the limits. I have many colleagues working in the battery world and there is one universal rule for Li battery chemistry - if you push the limitations of range, you will trash the long term health of the battery.

Actually, that would apply to any battery chemistry. The BMS handles charge balancing, the charger shuts down automatically when fully charged and and the system shuts down automatically at 10% SOC.

That sounds like a pretty big DoD... are they A123 cells?

No, they are LiFePO4 prismatic cells. 10% is what I remember, but I may be wrong. The point is that it shuts down automatically at a preset SOC or when the BMS senses a problem.

...

BTW, this should work with IMA also.

I agree.

The IMA system suffers from frequent and often excessive use of the battery pack and even though the ICE is very efficient much of the FE losses incurred stems from the penalty of forced regens.

A more modest system like this one would help deepen the OEM pack and this alone would reduce the chances of a forced regen thus keeping the overall FE as high as possible.

They need to provide an example of an IMA retrofit before some folks make the jump. ;)

Cheers;

MSantos

I talked to those guys in some depth at HF. Little red flags
about offshore build quality went up in my mind. Think
"enginer.cn" as a more appropriate domain for them... note well
that Thundersky has had some pretty serious QC issues over time,
and hopefully they're getting past that. I believe the BMS is
an off-the-shelf unit and they *claim* it tries to do some active
cell balancing, and their DC/DC converter is built in-house for
the purpose but is likely a mod of a relatively stock battery
charger. On the bright side they *are* regulating output current
the right way instead of just banging two packs together through
contactors and hoping for the best.
.
They do not read the car's notion of SOC over the data bus, but
rather rely on a fixed 240V cutoff point. That's a bit over 2.4
volts per cell, which is a bit high for NiMH and may start
getting into mild overcharge territory. With the way the stock
NiMH pack voltage thrashes all over the place under driving and
regen, they're going to be in and out of supplying energy fairly
frequently. I believe their system pushes about 10 amps into the
car, i.e. about 2-and-change kW. They're implying 10 miles from
2 KWh, which is likely *very* optimistic even for a Prius.
.
Oh, and that little cylinder mounted above the battery block is
a *fire extinguisher*.
.
One important thing they've learned which I've been curious about
for some time is just how much current you can inject into the
car's stock system such that it knows about it, i.e. not sneaking
around behind the current-sensor donut to hide the fact that you're
pushing charge into the stock NiMH. They're managing to supply a
steady 10 - 15 amps and not have the car complain about battery
vs. motor current-detection mismatches. I think this is a really
useful bit of info, and supports the questionability of the
Calcars/Pluginsupply approach in my mind. I've often thought
that with a magic supply of 10A coming from "someplace else",
I could basically extend engine-off glides practically forever.
.
_H*

Here is the response I received:
Hi, Larry,

If you really want it, you can buy two 4KWH kits and put them in parallel to get 40 Miles EV range. But it would take extra trunk space from you.

Jack

--- On Wed, 7/22/09, no-reply@enginer.us <no-reply@enginer.us> wrote:
Mail :: larry63@fourway.net
Conatct Phone # ::

Message ::
I would like to know what it would cost to get my \'07 Prius up to the 40 mile range on EV or if it\'s even possible to do so? Thanks.
Larry Trowbridge Sr.
Elkhart, IN
From :: Larry Trowbridge
If I'm doing the math right, this would cost $5990 and could be done on a Saturday. Al, feel like a trip to Elkhart?;):D

Actually, that would apply to any battery chemistry. The BMS handles charge balancing, the charger shuts down automatically when fully charged and and the system shuts down automatically at 10% SOC.

That sounds like a pretty big DoD... are they A123 cells?

I just took a look at their site. The good news is that their lifetime cycle degradation information seems pretty realistic. It also seems that their controller is programmable wrt lots of parameters.

Personally, I would set the cutoff at higher than 10% SOC (they spec 2000 cycles at 80% SOC and 3000 cycles at 70% SOC). I would ask them what the charger is taking it to at the top end (i.e. do they consider a fully charged battery at 100% SOC). I bring up these questions because some controllers indicate 100% SOC at a true SOC between 90% and 95%. In order to optimize your DoD for lifetime, you need to know how it is calculated. Ultimately, this will determine your battery cost per mile. According to my back of the napkin calculations, that varies greatly depending on automatic DOD (anywhere between $.02 - $.05 per mile). At the lower DODs, the system will pay itself back. If you run a high DOD (90%) and account for the electricity cost, the system will never pay itself back ...

I know I am not an expert on battery chemistry and I can't talk about proprietary research so here is some backup from the battery guys at Motorola:
Depth of discharge (DOD) is defined as the level to which battery voltage is taken during discharge. For instance, 100 percent DOD means that the battery voltage has been taken down to the lowest level recommended by suppliers. Twenty percent DOD means that 20 percent of the battery capacity has been removed. This level of DOD is often referred to as a shallow discharge. Discharging to less than the recommended voltage is known as overdischarge. The shallower the discharge, the more cycles the battery will provide. This is true for all battery chemistries.

The relationship between DOD and cycle life is logarithmic. In other words, the number of cycles yielded by a battery goes up exponentially the lower the DOD. Research studies have shown that the typical cellular phone user depletes their battery about 25 to 30 percent before recharging. Testing has shown that at this low level of DOD a lithium-ion battery can expect between 5 and 6 times the cycle numbers of a battery discharged to the one hundred percent DOD level continuously.

If you want to read up more on it, here is the link (http://www.motorola.com/testservices/article1.htm). I understand that we are discussing a totally different application, but the chemistry is similar. It also matches information I have learned from my friends in the battery world.

I talked to those guys in some depth at HF. Little red flags
about offshore build quality went up in my mind. Think
"enginer.cn" as a more appropriate domain for them... note well
that Thundersky has had some pretty serious QC issues over time,
and hopefully they're getting past that.

I have read about the Thundersky quality issues but have not seen anything since 2005.




I believe their system pushes about 10 amps into the
car, i.e. about 2-and-change kW. They're implying 10 miles from
2 KWh, which is likely *very* optimistic even for a Prius. .

Agreed, that is optimistic, especially because the converter is 90-95% efficient. That is one drawback to the appreach that other systems don't suffer from.


Oh, and that little cylinder mounted above the battery block is
a *fire extinguisher*

Thats odd, he told me it was a "fire distinguisher". The explanation for that is not because the batteries will overheat, but in case of a short from a loose wire.


One important thing they've learned which I've been curious about
for some time is just how much current you can inject into the
car's stock system such that it knows about it, i.e. not sneaking
around behind the current-sensor donut to hide the fact that you're
pushing charge into the stock NiMH. They're managing to supply a
steady 10 - 15 amps and not have the car complain about battery
vs. motor current-detection mismatches. I think this is a really
useful bit of info, and supports the questionability of the
Calcars/Pluginsupply approach in my mind. I've often thought
that with a magic supply of 10A coming from "someplace else",
I could basically extend engine-off glides practically forever.
.
_H*

My understanding is that the max current is 12A (3000W) but most of the time it is less. On the way back to Detroit the 2kw pack lasted nearly 90 minutes at 65 MPH. During that time they got 64 MPG, which is about 10 MPG higher than what I would get. Assuming 90% DoD, I calculate an average of 5A. My guess is that the current flow is governed by the voltage delta between the converter and the OEM pack. I purchased a second converter to see if I could increase the current flow by paralleling the two.

There are no complaints from the car because what is happening (I think) is no different than normal regeneration. I think that there is some merit in such an approach.

I am looking forward to some experimentation. If the conversion delivers as promised, that will just be icing on the cake.

There are no complaints from the car because what is happening (I think) is no different than normal regeneration. I think that there is some merit in such an approach.This is a point I am confused about. A stock Prius, if I understand correctly, keeps accurate track of energy coming into the traction battery from regen. Will the bleed from the extra pack into the stock traction battery be correctly accounted for as well ?

Please correct me if I am wrong, I have the impression that with this system the CAN bus SOC will be anywhere from wrong to way wrong, and Prius battery use algorithym will default to traction battery voltage data.

Sage, I think what he is saying is that the vehicle doesn't make sure that electricity being fed to the pack is actually being generated by the MGset in regenerative mode. If this is the case, as long as the flow doesn't exceed design parameters, the car shouldn't complain.

As for the SoC... since the car doesn't know there is another pack it will only report SoC of the original (stock) component -- not of the total. It is a bit like attaching an auxiliary fuel tank on top of your stock fuel tank (something that Billy has done ;)) -- the fuel gauge would read full until the auxiliary tank had drained. It isn't incorrect -- just limited in scope.

Until I get one installed, I am just gussing. So here goes. The Enginer power converter connects to the same power bus that connects the OEM pack to the MG. When you press on the brake, power from regen gets placed on that same bus and enters the OEM pack. The OEM pack doesn't know if this power came from regen or the MG, it just makes note of how much goes in. The same would happen when power enters the system from the Enginer power converter. The OEM pack doesn't care where it came from, it just assumes regen. In this case, while completely stopped, I would expect to see green arrows going into the battery to indicate energy moving from the Aux pack to the OEM pack.

So in reality, you don't really "drive" on the second pack, you're charging a battery with a battery, like those cell phone charge critters?

That's about the size of it. :)

So in reality, you don't really "drive" on the second pack, you're charging a battery with a battery, like those cell phone charge critters?

Correct! So the limitation of the system is the 48V DC to 240V DC converter. The max current transfer to the OEM pack is 12A. In EV mode, if you use more than 12A you will draw down the OEM pack. Eventually the OEM pack will get too low and kick you out of EV. But you could still have plenty of AUX pack left. The remedy to that problem is to run multiple 48V DC to 240V DC converters in parallel. I ordered an extra so my max current transfer will be 24A. If things work out well, I will add another 2kA (total of 6kA) and another 48V DC to 240V DC converter, which would give me 36A max.

I'll have to keep the second DC to DC inverter tip in mind. By this September, I may be in a position to get two of the 4kWh kits. Do you know if there is a limit to how many inverters you can run?

This is the one thing I don't like about this setup. A 12A draw is really only good at extending your glide times. You cant use EV mode like an electric car with this kind of amps. For an example I can keep a steady 25mph by drawing about 15amps. 30-35mph drawing 20amps. 40mph drawing about 30-40amps. And 50mph drawing about 50amps.

With the Hymotion battery in order to get 150MPG on the highway you need to be pushing 30amps to the electric motor. Only pushing 12amps at highway speeds is only going to get you to maybe 80mpg but it will last longer.

This setup sounds more like it is suited for long highway trips and not for around town EV use.

I'll have to keep the second DC to DC inverter tip in mind. By this September, I may be in a position to get two of the 4kWh kits. Do you know if there is a limit to how many inverters you can run?

I can't think of any reason why there would be a limit other than space and $. If you plan on mostly EV then you will need more than the 2 converters that come with the two kits. Keep an eye on your scangauge (current flow) in EV mode. Take the average reading and divide by 12. That would be the number of converters you need.

This is the one thing I don't like about this setup. A 12A draw is really only good at extending your glide times. You cant use EV mode like an electric car with this kind of amps. For an example I can keep a steady 25mph by drawing about 15amps. 30-35mph drawing 20amps. 40mph drawing about 30-40amps. And 50mph drawing about 50amps.

With the Hymotion battery in order to get 150MPG on the highway you need to be pushing 30amps to the electric motor. Only pushing 12amps at highway speeds is only going to get you to maybe 80mpg but it will last longer.

This setup sounds more like it is suited for long highway trips and not for around town EV use.

If you go to the web page, that is exactly what they are saying. It's really more for mixed mode driving. They made this compromise to keep the cost low. Power converters can be added as I have said in other posts. Based on you comment above, 2 converters (24A) is good for 35mph and 3 (36A) would be required for 40 MPH. For 50 MPH, you need 4. At $400 each, that would be a $800 adder for 40 MPH EV and a $1200 adder for 50 MPH EV.

AGAIN, THIS REFLECTS MY UNDERSTANDING OF THE SYSTEM. DONT BUY ANYTHING BASED ON MY ASSUMPTIONS. PLEASE HAVE JACK CONFIRM FIRST.

PLEASE HAVE JACK CONFIRM FIRST.

But what if we don't know Jack?

<ducks and runs!!> ;):D

But what if we don't know Jack?

<ducks and runs!!> ;):D
Buh dump bump!:D:D

If you go to the web page, that is exactly what they are saying. It's really more for mixed mode driving. They made this compromise to keep the cost low. Power converters can be added as I have said in other posts. Based on you comment above, 2 converters (24A) is good for 35mph and 3 (36A) would be required for 40 MPH. For 50 MPH, you need 4. At $400 each, that would be a $800 adder for 40 MPH EV and a $1200 adder for 50 MPH EV.

AGAIN, THIS REFLECTS MY UNDERSTANDING OF THE SYSTEM. DONT BUY ANYTHING BASED ON MY ASSUMPTIONS. PLEASE HAVE JACK CONFIRM FIRST.
If this can be confirmed by Jack, it sounds like for $6400 I can have an 8kWh pack capable of 34 mph. If I'm understanding the information on the site correctly, the 34 mph EV limit is still in place as the programming isn't changed in another of their attempts to keep costs down.

Larry,
To revist your question:

Do you know if there is a limit to how many inverters you can run?

There is an additional consideration. The 40 Ah LiFePO4 cells are rated at 0.3CA standard discharge. That means 12A per 2kwh, 48V string. So you should't have more converters than 2kwh strings. Otherwise you could shorten the life of the batteries.

So max output: (kwh at 90% efficiency of the converter)

1.8kwh = 12A max = $2000
3.6kwh = 24A max, 1 additional converter = $3400
5.4kwh = 36A max, 1 2kwh kit and 1 4kwh kit with 1 additional converter = $5400
7.2kwh = 48A max, 2 x 4kwh kits and 2 additional converters = $6800
etc....

The closest comparison to Hymotion would be:
6kwh = 36A max, 1 2kwh kit and 1 4kwh kit with 1 additional converter = $5400

Hymotion is 5kwh (I think) and Enginer is 5.4 kwh
Hymotion up to 50 MPH EV, Enginer up to 40 MPH EV
Note: to go over 40 MPH EV you need to but the 52 MPH kit, I dont know how much that is.

So Larry, do you have $6800 laying around?

Larry,
To revist your question:



There is an additional consideration. The 40 Ah LiFePO4 cells are rated at 0.3CA standard discharge. That means 12A per 2kwh, 48V string. So you should't have more converters than 2kwh strings. Otherwise you could shorten the life of the batteries.

So max output: (kwh at 90% efficiency of the converter)

1.8kwh = 12A max = $2000
3.6kwh = 24A max, 1 additional converter = $3400
5.4kwh = 36A max, 1 2kwh kit and 1 4kwh kit with 1 additional converter = $5400
7.2kwh = 48A max, 2 x 4kwh kits and 2 additional converters = $6800
etc....

The closest comparison to Hymotion would be:
6kwh = 36A max, 1 2kwh kit and 1 4kwh kit with 1 additional converter = $5400

Hymotion is 5kwh (I think) and Enginer is 5.4 kwh
Hymotion up to 50 MPH EV, Enginer up to 40 MPH EV
Note: to go over 40 MPH EV you need to but the 52 MPH kit, I dont know how much that is.

So Larry, do you have $6800 laying around?
Not yet but, by September 17th, I might. That is the date of the sale for my grandfather's house/property and, based on how it goes, I may have it by then.

A 12A feed to the Prius is 60A from their pack if it's 48V, maybe
a touch more. What should really be happening is upping the
aux pack *voltage*, so that more net power or capacity [pick
one] could be fed to the car without taxing the Lipos excessively.
What *really* should be happening is that the system should be
a bidirectional buck/boost converter with a driver-accessible
control to tailor output or input current, and thus be able
to also collect some amount of regen and allow Li pack charging
from the car if needed.
.
_H*

A 12A feed to the Prius is 60A from their pack if it's 48V, maybe
a touch more. What should really be happening is upping the
aux pack *voltage*, so that more net power or capacity [pick
one] could be fed to the car without taxing the Lipos excessively.
What *really* should be happening is that the system should be
a bidirectional buck/boost converter with a driver-accessible
control to tailor output or input current, and thus be able
to also collect some amount of regen and allow Li pack charging
from the car if needed.
.
_H*


I'm wondering what type of conversion scheme they are using. Jack mentioned several times that the key to the system is "isolation". A literal translation of that comment would require a transformer. My guess is a step up transformer in a Forward or Flyback circuit. I don't think that buck/boost is isolated.

Yes, I would love to be able to manually adjust the current from the driver's seat but even if that were possible, it would add to the cost. I'm hoping that there is some pot somewhere that can be used to tune the output

Yes, I would love to be able to manually adjust the current from the driver's seat but even if that were possible, it would add to the cost. I'm hoping that there is some pot somewhere that can be used to tune the output

Form the Enginer.us FAQ:

Can I use the kit for other hybrids?
Yes. The conversion kit is programable and can be reconfigured for any hybrid vehicles by adjusting output voltage and current settings. However, the battery box may have to redesign to fit into donor vehicles.


This is a promising bit of info. The site states that this kit will work on Gen 1 and 2 so the output current should go over 300V.

I just crawled out of my cave and discovered that these kits are starting to hit the street. I'll be really interested in your results, Dan! This sounds like a great kit for someone with a commute like mine that involves lots of highway miles and relatively little need for EV. 10-12A should be enough to for sustained WS, which is something that I currently avoid like the plague in favor of DWL and SHM. Personally, I would limit DoD to 20% and limit charging to 90% (or even 85%). I have a ThinkPad for work and this strategy has resulted in a battery that still provides 100% capacity after 18 months. Since that cuts down on available energy, I imagine a savvy user would learn to engage the aux pack only when it is of the greatest value.

10-12A should be enough to for sustained WS.
EXACTLY what I thought when I saw it. I already figured out how I can fit 12kwh in the back securely without sacrificing much cargo space. If the 4kwh works out as expected, I will bump it up to 8, then 12. Additional batteries and BMS are $500/kwh.

Any updates? Got a "It's Here" thread I missed?

11011011

Any updates? Got a "It's Here" thread I missed?

11011011

Hey Dan,
The kit was shipped in two pieces. A crate with the batteries and a large box with everything else. The box with everything else made it to me. The box with the batteries never made it because it was damaged in transit and returned to the shipper. Meanwhile, the guys at Enginer.us were at a convention so there was no one around to ship another set of batteries. So I had to wait until the 14th for them to ship another set. They are due to arrive tomorrow, along with a second 4kwh kit that I ordered. Unfortunately I am at the beach so I will have to drive back home to sign for it, then drive right back to the beach to finish my vacation. I won't be able to provide an update until maybe next weekend.

I have started this thread at PC that you might be interested in.

http://priuschat.com/forums/prius-phev-plug-in-modifications/67182-enginer-plug-in-hybrid-electric-vehicle-technical-information.html

There are a few people posting results already but it is clear that they hve no idea how to conduct a meaningful test. See here:

http://priuschat.com/forums/prius-phev-plug-in-modifications/67408-enginer-plug-in-hybrid-electric-vehicle-test-pilots-mpg-reports-important-data.html

There have also been issues with the kit. Bad balancers, bad converters, bad chargers, problems getting the batteries to balance. I'm not so sure that all the issues are due to bad components, but rather due to non technical people installing things improperly and not understanding the first thing about the components they are working with. I am witholding judgement until I have a chance to find out for myself.

http://priuschat.com/forums/prius-phev-plug-in-modifications/67554-enginer-kit-proper-break-in-charging-cycles.html
http://priuschat.com/forums/prius-phev-plug-in-modifications/62376-has-anyone-installed-enginer-plug-in-hybrid-electric-vehicle.html

Finally, it is installed. I'm happy so far. Better than expected results:
http://priuschat.com/forums/prius-phev-plug-in-modifications/68139-custom-enginer-plug-in-hybrid-electric-vehicle-8kwh.html#post945680

Hi Dan:

___Can you post your results here so we can keep up with it?

___Also, have you measured your input via Kill(a)watt or other in kWh to bring the Aux pack back up to 53.7V static from the 51.3V finish?

___Is the HSS a Fuel pump cutout for 52 mph EV?

___Thanks in advance.

___Wayne

Wayne,
I will post results here as well. Should I post the install info here also or will the link to PC be good enough?

I am charging now, currently at 53.0V, Kill(a)watt shows 3.2 kWh so far. The charge rate is 15A and I have 160Ah to charge when fully depleted. Tomorrow's commute will have them down to about 48V. I will get a better idea on kWh usage by Tuedsay morning.

Yes, the HSS is the fuel cut for 52 MPH EV. It's probably not very useful with only 2 converters. If I add a third, converter, I moght be able to go full EV.

Hi Dan:

___The install info is the most important part of all so by all means if you have the time, post it here.

___I will be in Florida next weekend but would like to have you on the Go Hypermiling Podcast as a guest to discuss the PHEV upgrade if you have an hour or two to spare next Sunday night?

___Good Luck

___Wayne

HSS is actually an ECU cutout, not fuel pump. I detailed the
semi-analogous setup (http://techno-fandom.org/~hobbit/cars/nosquirt/) for a quick and easy fuel-pump cut, but
it takes a while for the engine to finally die. Downside to
clobbering the engine ECU is that it's an immediate error for
the whole system, which some of the PHEV kits immediately
clear, but it's still klunky.
.
I'm confident that Dan is an expert at riding warp-stealth for
all it's worth and keeping the car in a normal mode of operation
to reap the same benefits, though...
.
_H*

I'm confident that Dan is an expert at riding warp-stealth for
all it's worth and keeping the car in a normal mode of operation
to reap the same benefits, though...
.
_H*

Yes, I would rather not use the HSS. I haven't even tried it yet.:p

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

8/31/09 Morning Commute

Charge Info
Begin Charge Aux Pack Voltage = 51.7
End Charge Aux Pack Voltage = 54.5
Actual kWh used = 8.84
kWh to Aux Pack = 7.66 (87.6% Charger efficiency, does not account for balancers draining charge)

Readings
Beginning Aux Pack Voltage = 54.5
Beginning OEM Pack SoC = 67.0
Miles Driven = 67.6
End Aux pack Voltage = 51.2
End OEM Pack Soc = 70.5

Driving Conditions
Moderate rain, and wet roads.
Ambient Temp = 68F
Winds = Calm
Windows Closed
Fan set to level 2, no AC.

Route
12.0 Miles suburban at 25-45 MPH
52.0 Miles in the Interstate, CC set to 55MPH
3.6 Miles suburban at 45 MPH

Results
Trip ScanGauge MPG = 95.5
Trip MFD MPG = N/A *** See note
Current Tank = 61.6 Miles
Tank ScanGauge MPG = 98.4
Tank MFD MPG = 97.8

Analysis
Wet roads, rain and cooler temperatures than my first test drive yesterday. Under these conditions I would normally get 61 MPG on the way to work. The ending Aux Pack voltage is promising. Yesterday I ended at 50.0V. Still plenty of juice left for the drive home.

PHEV Performance
95.5/61.0 = 56.5% Improvement

Notes:
*** Filled up the tank 6 miles into the drive, MFD ended at 97.8 MPG for 61 miles and does not reflect the cold start this morning.

Some other observations..... On the highway with CC set to 55MPH, the SoC camps out at 70.5 - 71.0% and BTV is at 234V. On what seems to be flat terrain, instantaneous FE is 110-130MPG with both converters running. RPM is at 1184 which is SHM territory.

HSS is actually an ECU cutout, not fuel pump. I detailed the
semi-analogous setup (http://techno-fandom.org/~hobbit/cars/nosquirt/) for a quick and easy fuel-pump cut, but
it takes a while for the engine to finally die. Downside to
clobbering the engine ECU is that it's an immediate error for
the whole system, which some of the PHEV kits immediately
clear, but it's still klunky.
.
I'm confident that Dan is an expert at riding warp-stealth for
all it's worth and keeping the car in a normal mode of operation
to reap the same benefits, though...
.
_H*

How would the Prius react to shorting out CKP (Ford lingo for the Crank Position sensor signal)?

On my SVT, doing this instantly kills the injectors. It is the most effective kill switch I have found. This sensor is particularly robust on Ford vehicles. The sensor actually sends out the positive signal AND the inverse signal. The only way to reliably kill it is to short the positive to the mirror signal.

Hi Dan:

___I am really excited for you and this project. Best information to date and the real world improvements are excellent as well!

___What is the action like under S1 - S4. Engine idling away and a massive injection of assist while taking off or are you EV Button equipped to get out onto some higher speed stuff before lighting her off?

___I cannot wait to see your tank data once the first one is complete. Two weeks at this rate.

___Are you talking the Super Prius down to Myrtle?

___Thanks in advance.

___Wayne

8/31/09 Evening Commute

Charge Info
Begin Charge Aux Pack Voltage = 52.7
End Charge Aux Pack Voltage = 52.7
Actual kWh used = 0
kWh to Aux Pack = 0

Readings
Beginning Aux Pack Voltage = 52.7
Beginning OEM Pack SoC = 71.0
Miles Driven = 62.6
End Aux pack Voltage = 48.0
End OEM Pack Soc = 53.5

Driving Conditions
Wet roads.
Ambient Temp = 66F
Winds = 10 MPH Headwind
Windows Closed
Fan set to level 2, no AC.

Route (Partial Hypermiling Route)
3.6 Miles suburban at 25-50 MPH
39.0 Miles on the Interstate, CC set to 55MPH
20.0 Miles suburban at 35-50 MPH
62.6 Miles total

Results
Trip ScanGauge MPG = 78.4
Current Tank = 131 Miles
Tank ScanGauge MPG = 86.4
Tank MFD MPG = 86.9

Analysis
Wet roads, 10 MPH headwind and cooler (66F) temperatures. Under these conditions I would normally get 60 MPG on the way home from work using this particular route. My first converter shut down at 104 miles (since last charge) and the second converter shut down at 110 miles. At that point, I had 81 MPG showing on the SG. So I only had about 50% of this trip with PHEV. After I lost assist, I changed to my (Hypermiling) route to help salvage my tank numbers. The route is shorter but takes more time.

PHEV Performance
81/60 = 35% Improvement while under PHEV assist.

9/01/09 Morning Commute

Charge Info
Begin Charge Aux Pack Voltage = 48.0
End Charge Aux Pack Voltage = 55.8 (still charging from yesterday)
Actual kWh used = 10.70
kWh to Aux Pack = 9.27 (Also includes bumping up the OEM SoC from 53.5 to 72.0%)

Readings
Beginning Aux Pack Voltage = 55.8
Beginning OEM Pack SoC = 72.0
Miles Driven = 62.6
End Aux pack Voltage = 51.9
End OEM Pack Soc = 71.5

Driving Conditions
Dry.
Ambient Temp = 66F
Winds = 10 MPH Tailwind :D
Windows Closed
Fan set to level 2, no AC.

Route (Full Hypermiling Route)
23.0 Miles suburban at 25-50 MPH
27.0 Miles in the Interstate, CC set to 55MPH
12.6 Miles suburban at 35-50 MPH

Results
Trip ScanGauge MPG = 116
Current Tank = 194 Miles
Tank ScanGauge MPG = 94.9
Tank MFD MPG = 94.6

Analysis
I switched over to my high MPG route. It is shorter by about 5 miles but takes about 10 minutes longer, 90 min vs 80 min. My best previously on this route, with 10MPH tailwind was 72.3 MPG

PHEV Performance
116/72.3 = 60.4% Improvement

http://priuschat.com/forums/members/krousdb-albums-enginer-us-phev-conversion-picture2709-090109-morning-trip.jpg
http://priuschat.com/forums/members/krousdb-albums-enginer-us-phev-conversion-picture2708-090109-morning-tank.jpg

Hi Dan:

___I am really excited for you and this project. Best information to date and the real world improvements are excellent as well!
Did you see this morning's commute data I just posted?:D


___What is the action like under S1 - S4. Engine idling away and a massive injection of assist while taking off or are you EV Button equipped to get out onto some higher speed stuff before lighting her off?

The best technique seems to be use ICE at takeoff, but lightly. I can accelerate in the 1184-1216rpm range which for me equates to SHM.


___I cannot wait to see your tank data once the first one is complete. Two weeks at this rate.
About 10 days I think.


___Are you talking the Super Prius down to Myrtle?

I can if you meet me there.:p

Results
Trip ScanGauge MPG = 116
Current Tank = 194 Miles
Tank ScanGauge MPG = 94.9
Tank MFD MPG = 94.6

Analysis
I switched over to my high MPG route. It is shorter by about 5 miles but takes about 10 minutes longer, 90 min vs 80 min. My best previously on this route, with 10MPH tailwind was 72.3 MPG Fantastic!!!

Did you manage to get a read on CCL or BUF (charge limit and battery temp)?

11011011

Fantastic!!!

Did you manage to get a read on CCL or BUF (charge limit and battery temp)?

11011011

They don't work on mine, Version 3.17. I will double check if I entered the numbers correctly.

Hi Dan B.:

___Dan K. has the absolute latest SG-II but his 04 does not output some of the latest X-Gauge data. I think gps was one that showed up blank initially as well, right Dan K.?

___Good Luck

___Wayne

9/01/09 Evening Commute

Charge Info
Begin Charge Aux Pack Voltage = 51.9
End Charge Aux Pack Voltage = 51.9
Actual kWh used = 0
kWh to Aux Pack = 0

Readings
Beginning Aux Pack Voltage = 51.9
Beginning OEM Pack SoC = 72.0
Miles Driven = 62.6
End Aux pack Voltage = 48.0
End OEM Pack Soc = 49.5

Driving Conditions
Sunny & Dry.
Ambient Temp = 77F
Winds = 10 MPH Headwind
Windows Closed
Fan set to level 2, no AC.

Route
12.6 Miles suburban at 25-50 MPH
27.0 Miles on the Interstate, CC set to 55MPH
23.0 Miles suburban at 35-50 MPH
62.6 Miles total

Results
Trip ScanGauge MPG = 81.0
Current Tank = 256 Miles
Tank ScanGauge MPG = 90.8
Tank MFD MPG = 90.6

Analysis
10 MPH headwind and 77F. Under these conditions
I would normally get 60 MPG on the way home from
work using this particular route. My first converter
shut down at 106 miles (since last charge) and the
second converter shut down at 112 miles. At that
point, I had 82 MPG showing on the SG.

PHEV Performance
82/60 = 37% Improvement while under PHEV assist.

9/02/09 Morning Commute

Charge Info
Begin Charge Aux Pack Voltage = 48.0
End Charge Aux Pack Voltage = 54.0
Actual kWh used = 10.71
kWh to Aux Pack = 9.28 (Also includes bumping up the OEM SoC from 49.5 to 75.0%)

Readings
Beginning Aux Pack Voltage = 54.0
Beginning OEM Pack SoC = 75.0
Miles Driven = 62.6
End Aux pack Voltage = 51.4
End OEM Pack Soc = 75.0

Driving Conditions
Dry.
Ambient Temp = 61F
Winds = 9 MPH Tailwind
Windows Closed
Fan set to level 2, no AC.

Route (Full Hypermiling Route)
23.0 Miles suburban at 25-50 MPH
27.0 Miles in the Interstate, CC set to 55MPH
12.6 Miles suburban at 35-50 MPH

Results
Trip ScanGauge MPG = 113
Current Tank = 319 Miles
Tank ScanGauge MPG = 94.4
Tank MFD MPG = 94.3

Analysis
Same as yesterday except 5F cooler. I had
problems keeping the coolant temp warm
enough (157F) for the ICE to drop out
automatically. This cost me a few MPG's.

PHEV Performance
113/72.3 = 56.3% Improvement

Hi Dan B.:

___Dan K. has the absolute latest SG-II but his 04 does not output some of the latest X-Gauge data. I think gps was one that showed up blank initially as well, right Dan K.?

___Good Luck

___Wayne

Wayne,
I don't have a Gps but I have a Gpp which does work.

I am a representative from AutomationTech Inc, Distributor of Enginer kits. Let me know if you have any questions.

Hi Jack!
Welcome to CleanMPG!
There are many that have great interest in your application and are closely following Dan's details.

What are your plans for other cars?

Since these reports are looking the same every day, I will just post new record highs and tank results. I will also start recording tank data at CleanMPG.com.

9/03/09 Morning Commute - New Record High

Driving Conditions
Dry.
Ambient Temp = 61F
Winds = 10 MPH Tailwind
Windows Closed
Fan set to level 2, no AC.

Results
Trip ScanGauge MPG = 121
Current Tank = 448 Miles
Tank ScanGauge MPG = 94.4
Tank MFD MPG = 94.0

Analysis
Using feedback from the ScanGauge to help me improve my results.

PHEV Performance
121/72.3 = 67.3% Improvement

Hi Jack!
Welcome to CleanMPG!
...
What are your plans for other cars?

I eagerly echo Mike's question on this one... namely a kit supporting the newer 2010 Prius ... and even the second generation Civic Hybrid ;)

Cheers;

MSantos

I eagerly echo Mike's question on this one... namely a kit supporting the newer 2010 Prius ... and even the second generation Civic Hybrid ;)

Cheers;

MSantos

I would like to know the answer to that question as well.

I eagerly echo Mike's question on this one... namely a kit supporting the newer 2010 Prius ... and even the second generation Civic Hybrid ;)

Cheers;

MSantos

They are currently working on the 2010 Prius kit. They just need to make a custom battery carrier box.

We also desperately need the scan guage codes for the 2010 Prius.

Hi Jack!
Welcome to CleanMPG!
There are many that have great interest in your application and are closely following Dan's details.

What are your plans for other cars?

We are actively working on Honda Insight, Lexus RX400H(Highlander Hybrid), Ford Escape. In order to speed up the adaption to other hybrid models, we are looking for help from the user community with compensation. If anyone is interested in being a pilot tester, please let us know.

I was a part of five installs of the Enginer systems for Priuses in California last month and am now installing the system in a 2002 gen1 Insight in Madison, WI.
The system in the Insight should be up and running by the end of the week. Feel free post or to call me if you have questions.
608-729-4082.

Feel free post or to call me if you have questions.
608-729-4082.

Lots of questions! But most of them you wont be able to answer untill you get at least a whole tank worth of driving out of it. You better post pictures!

Here is one question.

Do you have MIMA so you can use more of the asist with this battery upgrade?

I was a part of five installs of the Enginer systems for Priuses in California last month and am now installing the system in a 2002 gen1 Insight in Madison, WI.
The system in the Insight should be up and running by the end of the week. Feel free post or to call me if you have questions.
608-729-4082.

Hi Eric!
How many KW kit is yours?
It will be interesting to see if it helps the Insight anywhere close to the amount of Dan's Prius.

Good Luck!

I bought a 4kwh Eginer system last week for a 2001 Prius. What the heck to I do with the spare tire?

Welcome to CleanMPG! Be sure and post your experiences here with the system.


RE:Spare tire - Replace it with a can of Fix a Flat.

The system has LIFE! Just finished installing the 4kwh Enginer system. Funny thing. We got thrown for a loop installing the batteries. At first we thought the batteries must go in so that the positive and negative terminals are pointing straight up. They we realized that they were to be installed sideways - see picture. Just couldn't shake loss the idea that if we put them on their sides they might spill battery acid.:D

We have to let the system rest overnight so that the charge gets distributed evenly. We'll start charging it in the morn.

Hi Wapin:

___I am really looking forward to your experience with the Enginer PHEV kit. Given the price and the tax credits, it was probably free, right?

___Good Luck

___Wayne

Well not so lucky....

Everything works fine. It just won't transfer amperage to the traction batteries. Here's the test. I drove it around until the traction battery was indicating it was half depleted (that's all you get on the 2001 Prius screen). Then I parked the car without turning off the ignition. The car quietly sat their. I listened to the radio. I was told that if the system were working I would see the traction battery fill to full charge given a couple of minutes or so. That didn't happen. Before long the ICE kicked in to charge the traction battery. Oh well...

The lithium battery set is fully charged and balanced. So, my conclusion at this point is that the problem is the converter.

I didn't do the install. My installer is out of town for the holidays. I am sure he will get it right.

We farted around with the system. We were pretty sure that the DC/DC converter was not working. They just sent us a new one. We got it working and it is pretty clear that the system is now working.

However, my concern right now is about the driving habits. I seems to me the ICE is too easily engaged. This action is independent of the Enginer system. Remember, I am driving a first generation Prius. I feel like there ought to be an adjustment somewhere in the domain of Toyota system, that would allow me to decrease the sensitivity to the pedal. I just don't want the ICE to come on when I am trying to maintain a 35 mph speed that has only a very small % grade incline.

Did anyone pass the State Annual Inspection with this kit? I know federal law requires a lot of safety certifications. Did the dealer scream at you and voided your warrenty when you check up twice a year at the dealer?