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http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/2/AmericanFlag.jpg The Viper brand and the plant that makes the car, the Conner Avenue assembly plant in Detroit, were taken over by the "new" Chrysler that emerged last week from bankruptcy. (http://money.cnn.com/2009/06/15/autos/chrysler_viper_restart/index.htm?postversion=2009061517)

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/501/2008_Dodge_Viper_SRT10.jpgPeter Valdes-Dapena - CNN (http://money.cnn.com) - Jun 16, 2009

Way to go Chrysler, You hit this one out of the park!:rolleyes: I'd really like to know the numbers behind this decision though...I really would. --Ed.

NEW YORK, NY. -- Chrysler will soon be making cars again.

Chrysler Group announced Monday that it is restarting a factory, after shutting down all of its manufacturing for nearly seven weeks following the bankruptcy of Chrysler LLC. Chrysler Group is the new company that emerged last week with most of Chrysler's assets and a new ownership structure.

The first plant to reopen is the one that makes the Dodge Viper sports car.

The Viper has a 600 horsepower V-10 engine and a price tag that starts at about $90,000. The Viper was introduced in the 1992 model year, and only 25,000 have been sold since then.

The Conner Avenue Assembly Plant in Detroit that makes the car employs 115 people.

Chrysler LLC had announced last year that it intended to sell off the Viper brand. The high-performance, 10-cylinder sports car sells in low numbers. Ultimately, Chrysler said it had not received any bids that met its requirements.

Chrysler's other plants remain idle.

"At this time, we cannot ... http://money.cnn.com/2009/06/15/autos/chrysler_viper_restart/index.htm?postversion=2009061517

"Gotta keep those 7mpg cars rolling, we have 1400 people in America counting on those cars." :rolleyes: - Dale

"Gotta keep those 7mpg cars rolling, we have 1400 people in America counting on those cars." :rolleyes: - Dale

Out of curiosity I took a look at what they actually get.

16 mpg combined.

They can make a supersports car that gets 16 with 600 hp, but can't make a small car that gets 40+ with 100 hp?!?

For some reason I thought that going bankrupt would send a clear enough message to the leadership of Chrysler that the way they do business simply doesn't work. Instead it seems to have sent them off the deep end of mismanagement.

"Gotta keep those 7mpg cars rolling, we have 1400 people in America counting on those cars." :rolleyes: - Dale

So what if 1400 folks want to buy the car and Mopar makes money on those 1400 cars. Its not like they are daily drivers. I know several Viper owners. They are not daily grind cars. More like vaction, long weekend, track day cars. Plus they paid the FSP tax.

Have you ever driven a Viper? It's a very fun pure motor sports car.

Maybe Harley should not sell the XR 1200 Flat Track replica racer? Or should your car be forced off the road because it does not have a bunch of air bags and ultra modern safety features.

The first plant to reopen was the Viper plant. That speaks volumes about where priorities are placed. It looks like more of the same that got them into the mess in the first place. If MY money is bailing them out, I'd like to see some changes made.

Hi Jeff:

___How does it feel to subsidize your friends for their track day in a $100,000 automobile let alone bounce your eyes out of your head when tooling down I-40 at the PSL? Talk about a wealth transfer :rolleyes:

___Good Luck

___Wayne

Out of curiosity I took a look at what they actually get.

16 mpg combined.

They can make a supersports car that gets 16 with 600 hp, but can't make a small car that gets 40+ with 100 hp?!?


If the Viper gets 16 combined why was it subject to the gas guzzler tax?

If the Viper gets 16 combined why was it subject to the gas guzzler tax?

I found the answer... cause it's a car not a pickup or SUV.

The first plant to reopen was the Viper plant. That speaks volumes about where priorities are placed. It looks like more of the same that got them into the mess in the first place. If MY money is bailing them out, I'd like to see some changes made.

No , it speaks volumes about it being the smallest facility, therefore the easiest to restart.
Geez. Calm down people.:rolleyes:

So what if 1400 folks want to buy the car and Mopar makes money on those 1400 cars. Its not like they are daily drivers. I know several Viper owners. They are not daily grind cars. More like vaction, long weekend, track day cars. Plus they paid the FSP tax.

Have you ever driven a Viper? It's a very fun pure motor sports car.

Maybe Harley should not sell the XR 1200 Flat Track replica racer? Or should your car be forced off the road because it does not have a bunch of air bags and ultra modern safety features.

psyshack,
I have never even sat in a Viper. I would like to drive one, sure. I like speed, I've raced before. But making new ones? I don't like my tax money funding a frivolous non essential.....anything.

I would be just as astounded at government funding going to gay weddings for American bald eagles or teaching mimes to talk, though that last one might improve comedy somewhat.

Maybe we should put more Hummers on the road, while were at it, let's bring back the Ford Pinto and the Gremlin too. These weren't really mistakes. We could go back to the old shovelhead engines on the Harleys instead of the Evo engines and we can employ thousands more people to retighten bolts.

Companies shouldn't have to admit their mistakes as long as they have customers with lots of money and a short memory. Or tax payers to cover their bad business decisions.

As for my car it passed all emissions/safety inspections required by law, it does not represent a company that asked the government for my money and got it through a bailout.

Chrysler went back and wanted more and luckily Obama said no, go bankrupt, restructure and then we'll talk. This is not the restructuring most of us are looking forward to seeing.

The Metro seems to be a better choice for resurrection than the Viper since you want to include it in this discussion. It would employ more people as the price would make it more popular, you could buy 7 Metros for the price of a Viper, it gets great gas mileage, it too is a lot of fun to drive.

A passenger side airbag and an OBDII ECU would be an admitted improvement to mine and if you wanted to drive it like a Viper you would still get 33mpg and have more time on the track per lap to enjoy it. It being slower and all. 55hp of raw power! (doing the James Brown dance on the hood of a Viper, HAAA!!!! HEYYY!!!! UNGHHH!!!! YEA!!!!)

Let's see Chrysler pay us back with Viper sales. I'm not holding my breath. :D - Dale

Do we have to assume the worse?

You know, it might be back in service first just because its a smaller plant with parts already available. Its not like every resource was focused on this one plant. Someone gave orders to restart the profitable (if barely) plants, and this one was first online.

Hi All:

___Viper sales last month... 44, down 65% from May 2008. For the year, 289 have been sold, down 44%.

___There is a sales winner if I ever saw one? I hope its at least profitable but a dedicated DOT certified car line for 44 cars a month? A vehicle costs anywhere from $300,000,000 to $500,000,000 to develop all-in. The plant and equipment even if paid for are amortized and those employees directly responsible for the build are probably charged out at close to $80.00 per hour. Plant site... Dealer training, parts and service... 44 cars per month spells disaster for my money.

___Good Luck

___Wayne

^ +1 on easiest to restart.

Your explanation makes the most sense.

It was also easiest to make a profit on the guzzlers...till the general public decided they didn't have that kind of money to spend.

Chrysler's first move isn't very smart...not at all. Production volumes would certainly help, but with the numbers Wayne provided, they might as well leave that section of the market. They really can't compete with the Vette Anyway.

There is also the argument that a vette buyer isn't a viper buyer, but if they can't make a car that handles nicely, and get's somewhat decent mileage (at least 20 combined for the power this thing makes) they shouldn't make these cars at all. Sorry Chrysler, you've screwed up in more ways than one...

If the Viper operation is making money so be it. I doubt it is. But what the hell. We bailed out Mopar once before. Not a sole listen when I was against that years ago. And I'm a old Mopar fan. Nor the second time around. We bailed GM out. It won't amount to anything. Just the repackaged junk they have always made. Volt is it! If they screw that car up along with over price it,,, there done for. Now if GM puts the same thought into other cars with different goals. Then they might have a chance. You may not like them but the new Vette, CTS-V, Camaro, G8 are world class cars in there class. And Malibu seems to be a good car for some. So lets see how Volt does.

Wayne: I didn't and don't like giving my money to folks that bought hybrids. I don't like giving it to large farm operations, nor biofuel operators. Or any number of groups or people that think they deserve my money. And no we will not be taking the state tax credit we can get on the HCHII. So in the long run it all means nothing. Some don't like paying for a war, others think we should send everybody to college, buy everybody a place to live and pay all there medical bills. It just does not matter anymore.

The American Motto: Were is my hand out?

Hi Jeff:

___You do have the choice with the amout of fuel you use and there in lyes the rub. The HCH-II was a smart choice that pays dividends until your next vehicle. The Viper is the absolute bottom of the barrel wrong one.

___Good Luck

___Wayne

Hi Jeff:

___You do have the choice with the amout of fuel you use and there in lyes the rub. The HCH-II was a smart choice that pays dividends until your next vehicle. The Viper is the absolute bottom of the barrel wrong one.

___Good Luck

___Wayne

And most folks don't drive a Viper as a daily grind car. :) But I do get to drive the MZ3 tomorrow. :woot: A day away from the CVT and lard ridden tires is a like a day of wonderful sun shine and 72f. :)

Hi Jeff:

___And your wife is smiling (as are you) all the way to the bank day after day after day...

___Unfortunately I had to help pay for the Viper guys joy ride :( I did not pay a dime for the parents Prius-III while they are holding 62 + mpg's past 300-miles already.

___Good Luck

___Wayne

Hi All:
.....

___ A vehicle costs anywhere from $300,000,000 to $500,000,000 to develop all-in. The plant and equipment even if paid for are amortized ..... Plant site... Dealer training, parts and service... .

___Good Luck

___Wayne

These sunk costs don't seem relevant to the short term decision to restart an already certified line in an already equipped factory with an already trained dealer network. I'd guess that the gross unit profit margin on new vipers is large, so they'd probably be dollar wise to crank out a few more.

Like you say they'll probably never sell enough units to make back their development money, but, since all the infrastructure is already in place, making and selling a few more of them should help out the bottom line. IMO there's nothing wrong with Chrysler making lemonade out of some of their lemons.

___Unfortunately I had to help pay for the Viper guys joy ride
___Wayne

Unfortunately, i am forced to help pay for other peoples bus rides every day, even though there is no bus service anywhere near where i live.
Unfortunately, i am forced to pay for the 4 filet mignon steaks the lady in front of me in the grocery store bought last saturday, whipping out her access card to pay for them.
My guess would be that the person buying the Viper has kicked in a lot more tax dollars than the people who are riding the buses and buying filet with access cards(although who knows, i may be wrong there)

What about the citizens of Ohio who were forced to subsidize Honda in Ohio.
What about the citizens of Mississippi who were forced to subsidize Toyota s plant, that has yet to produce a car?

This could go on and on.

It's good to see things are beginning anew on the right foot (not).

Unfortunately, i am forced to help pay for other peoples bus rides every day, even though there is no bus service anywhere near where i live.
Unfortunately, i am forced to pay for the 4 filet mignon steaks the lady in front of me in the grocery store bought last saturday, whipping out her access card to pay for them.
My guess would be that the person buying the Viper has kicked in a lot more tax dollars than the people who are riding the buses and buying filet with access cards(although who knows, i may be wrong there)

What about the citizens of Ohio who were forced to subsidize Honda in Ohio.
What about the citizens of Mississippi who were forced to subsidize Toyota s plant, that has yet to produce a car?

This could go on and on.

Don't get me started on public aid loopholes...

As for Honda and Toyota, their products are significantly more environmentally responsible and have a much broader appeal. As for the number of jobs each project created, I can't speak to that. Looking at the cost/benefit, the Honda and Toyota plants were a much bigger bang for the buck.

Looking at the cost/benefit, the Honda and Toyota plants were a much bigger bang for the buck.

The Toyota plant is currently frozen, IE not finished and no cars being built. That is NO bang for the buck in my book.

The cost/ benefit ratio of Chrysler bailout will not be known for several years, the same as it wasn't known in Ohio for several years after the Honda plant was built.

Like i said before, the Viper plant was the smallest, therefore the easiest to restart. Restarting an Automotive assembly plant is a bit more complicated than throwing a switch.

Let's give this a shot instead of grabbing the rope and looking for a tree ;)

Don't get me started on public aid loopholes...

As for Honda and Toyota, their products are significantly more environmentally responsible and have a much broader appeal. As for the number of jobs each project created, I can't speak to that. Looking at the cost/benefit, the Honda and Toyota plants were a much bigger bang for the buck.

All corprate welfare should stop IMHO.

Chrysler would be rich if they decided to sell the viper for just $20k, but still build it like a supercar. I mean, I'm sure a lot of people would prefer it over a Civic or Corolla or Prius, even if it isn't practical.

Sounds like Chrysler/Fiat wants to learn as much as they can from the Viper experiment before they sell it off. OR they may want to build up a surplus, cease production, then sell them as a "limited" series for a high profit margin. That would be a pretty good strategy.