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My '07 HCH has 35K, I am doing a major service and I only have the brake fluid left to do. I did change brake fluid on my BMW and Mercede, they are easy using 2 men to do the traditional task.

I saw the brake fluid reservoir is back in the hood on the driver side. :eek: so my questions are:

1. How can I remove the brake fluid in the reservoir back in there?
2. Can I use the 'pump and release at the bleeding valves' method to change out the brake fluid?

Thank you very much.

Hi tanntheman;

Welcome to CleanMPG :)

I suggest you purchase a shop manual if you want to do these things yourself.
The recommended brake bleeding procedure is very specific and must be performed in the proper wheel-to-wheel sequence... in addition to few additional precautions that go with it.

Finally, do not forget to use only Honda Dot 3 brake fluid from a new and unopened container. Also, listen and watch for the power unit after you turn the ignition to (II). ;)

Cheers;

MSantos

You can remove a good amount of fluid from the reservoir by using one of those 'turkey basters'.

However, I would also recommend the service manual to be sure on the order of bleeding all the brake caliper/cylinders to remove all the remaining fluid

I can't remember what it's called, but a friend has this nifty power bleeder that is essentially a hand pump compressor that screws in the place of the brake fluid reservior cap. Pump it to a certain pressure, then bleed the wheels as necessary (whilst stopping to refill the reservior).

I've done mine myself a few times, following the Service Manual guidance, on previous Hondas. It was always an iffy job: I had difficulty opening and closing the bleed bolt timely, and often ended up with a slightly spongy feeling brake. The pros have an device that pumps the fluid out, and charging around $50, I find this safer and more expedient.

One caution: don't mix fluid types.

I agreed to get the service manual, but may be later when the price drops further. It is one thing left to do, and I have been done brake fluid (with ABS) change before, with the traditional 'pump and release' method with 2 men.

OK, I just found the brake fluid reservoir is back in there with the small connection tank in front (this one is always empty-there is a label stated check the reservoir in the back for level).

I know the brake fluid should be Dot 3 and is in sealed condition, but I would double check with the Honda parts rep when I buy the brake fluid. For the bleeding sequence, it is LF, RF, RR, & RL.

So, all is left is to figure out how to get the brake fluid out the reservoir back there. I think the 'turkey blaster' is not working for this situation. Does anybody have a better way?

P.S. I got couple pictures of the brake fluid reservoir, does anyone know how to attach picture for the post?

You can do the very common "pump the brakes bleed" no problem, just know that flushing all the old fluid from the lines and reservoir will take awhile.

As far as brake fluid, I would recommend a good quality DOT 3 fluid at the very least. Honda is good, other name brand fluids are good, racing fluids are great (but expensive). Just don't use DOT 5 (silicone based). It WILL muck up your system.

I do HSAX, so I run ATE racing brake fluid (DOT 3/4 compatible, high wet & dry boiling points, and comes in blue or yellow for ease of flushing). Use fluid from a sealed container unless you plan to bleed the brakes a lot to avoid moisture problems (I bleed mine every weekend for racing purposes).

Good luck!

Regarding accessing the deeply recessed brake reserve, you might need to remove some of the bottom of windshield cowel pieces for better access. My posting regarding valve check might be useful:

http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17946


Regarding brake fluid types, and mixing:

The following is verbatum from the Service Manual. To some extent it may be to avoid liability issues, but it seems to be saying to always use exactly the same (Honda) make and brand of brake fluid as was installed at the factory. Personally I would stick with this recommendation. I'm not saying it's right, I just don't want to chance it:

++++

NOTE:

* Do not reuse the drained fluid. Use only clean Honda DOT 3 Brake Fluid from an unopened container.
Using a non-Honda brake fluid can cause corrosion and shorten the life of the system.

* Do not mix different brands of brake fluid; they may not be compatible.

* Make sure no dirt or other foreign matter is allowed to contaiminate the brake fluid.

* Do not spill brake fluid on the vehicle, it may damage the paint: if brake fluid does contact the paint, wash it off immediately with water.

* When yu turn ingintion switch ON (II), the power unit may operate (you can hear the motor sound).

Reading the Service Manual a bit, for both Removal and Bleeding, there are instructions for bleeding the Servo Unit and Power Unit, as well as the usual brake caliper bleeding. I've found it difficult to upload decent sized jpeg scans to this site, and don't want to get writers cramp ;), suffice to say the Service Manual is almost manditory.

If someone knows how to post decent sized jpegs I'd be happy to post the brake bleed sequence. I've tried in the past and they were downsampled and compressed almost to the point of illegibility.

Tanntheman: the caliper bleeding sequence you posted is correct.

Hi Mendel;

Thank you for posting a few more details on this subject. I was a bit concerned that my memory was off and therefore missing something... but at the same time I just recalled a bit more that is related to the Power Unit warning that both of us referenced.

If memory serves me right, we have to be mindful of the power unit as the accumulator motor can be damaged if running extensively without fluid. It does sound a bit different but can still be missed.

Once again, getting the manual is absolutely imperative and stick to the approved fluids only.

PS: We have to be careful about uploading materials acquired directly from the service manual. I am quite certain that the practice is not always appreciated in some circles. :(


Cheers;

MSantos

"I quite certain that the practice is not always appreciated in some circles"

I agree, unfortunately that's the way things are. Maybe the world could use one car company that thinks if you've spent $30,000~ you're entitle to free access to a pdf of the service manual, if you're mechanically inclined.

Also, the bleeding and replacement procedures for servo unit involve a lot of very specific steps, the Service Manual info is a must.

To get the fluid out of the reservoir, you can do a back-to back brake bleed (replenish in between). The first bleed will get most of the old fluid, the second will flush the rest out.

either way, good luck.

That's what I did: just bleed a lot at each caliper, maybe going around twice. On the HCHII there's another drain bolt, on the U/S of Servo Unit. A clear hose is to be connect up, and the drain bolt unscrewed 180 degrees, and the ingition key turned to position II, for no more than 110 seconds, to drain the fluid. The manual notes that the sound of the Servo Unit will change when the fluid is expelled.

The one thing that bugs me about the manual: in the Maintenance section it says to "change" the brake fluid every three years. And then in the Brake section of the manual, there is a procedure for "bleeding", and for "removal", but not for "replacement".

Again, I think handing $50 to the dealership's service department is the easiest and safest way to get this one done.

Thank you very much, everyone! Now I have a few options to consider.

1. take out the the cowl to get access to the reservior.
2. back to back breeding, traditional method.
3. see the Honda dealer, let them do it for $50! I can imagine they can flush and refill in a couple minutes with the vacuum (without taking off the tires because they have a hydrolic lift to do it).

I will decided tomorrow and get it done. Thanks again.

"back to back breeding"

I'd have to say that's a tough position ;)

I completed the brake fluid with my option 2: back to back bleeding. Even through it was taking quite some time, but it is the traditional way that I have been doing for the last 20 years (old technology, nothing new). Due to the Hybrid has a connection tank for filling into the reservoir, the reservoir is hard to access, making the job of sipping out the old fluid almost impossible. At the end, I chose to recruit someone who wants to exercise her leg for about 1 hour. I got it done about 2 hours.

The reason that I didn't do other options:

On option 1 of taking out the cowl, I thought the time to taking out and resembling might be more than having someone to pump for 15 minutes to get the old brake fluid out. But the valve check is useful for future.

On option 3, I don’t have the money but I have a lot of time. However, I do recommend whoever has money, hand the job to the pros.

For the doItYourselfer, here are the tools and parts that I used:

1 One jack.
2 Two jack stands.
3 One 8mm wrench (for rear bleeding valves)
4 One 10mm wrench (for front bleeding valves)
5 A foot long and air tubing (I have a spared one from my air pump for fish tank buying from Wal-Mart, size 7.62M)
6 A needle nose pliers to enlarge the tubing to fit the bleeding valves.
7 A empty jar to receive the brake fluid from the bleeding (I used a 500 mL water bottle)
8 One lug wrench to remove and reinstall the tires (the one comes with the car works)
9. Three 12 oz brake fluid from Honda ($4.97 each + tax. They only carry Dot 3 heavy duty brake fluid)

Thank you again everyone.

Hi tanntheman;

Nice to know it worked well for you. At least you now have an appreciation for what's involved ;)

Cheers;

MSantos

I would suggest 2 more jackstands (4 total). Did you have the jackstands in the front and just the jack in the back? Just curious.

Also, basting out the reservoir isn't really necessary in my experience. Like you, I've always just run it down and refilled it until I'd gone through 3 pints. Can you even open that reservoir?? Fluid goes in through the cylindrical receptical (atop the master cylinder?) in front of it.

I still wonder about that Servo Unit though... It has a drain bolt. The Service manual procedure for removal of brake fluid says to drain through this, by hooking up and turning key to position II for <110 seconds. Does draining via the brake bleed bolts get the fluid out of the Servo Unit? I suspect not but not sure.

Yes, if you have 4 jackstands, that would perfect. Anyway, I had my jack in the front.

I didn't know whether you can open up the reservior, I just did what I've known in the past experience-breeding the fluid from one of the breeding valves. By avoiding opening up anything under the hood can prevent brake fluid messing up all over. I think it was much cleaner this way.

Have any body done it with the drain in the Servo Unit? I would like to know too. For now, I just did what I knew.:flag:

I've been wondering about mostly-replacing the brake fluid in
the Prius. The stuff in the reservoir doesn't look discolored
in the slightest, and the caliper and drum-cylinder pistons are
some sort of nonmetallic composition so corrosion is likely
less of an issue... but what I'd really like to do is *test*
the existing fluid before worrying about pushing a bunch of new
stuff through the system and disposing of the old stuff. There
are test strips for brake fluid, that turn particular shades
of color based on pH and water content and such, but they only
come in like bottles of 50 for some inordinate price so I'm not
sure if I want to spring the $75 or whatever they want for that
kind of quantity when I only want a one-off test. If I was going
to go test all my friends' cars too, I might consider it. But
where might I find small quantities of these strips? Would it
be reasonable to ask a local shop if they have them and if they'd
charge me some nominal pittance to test my fluid with a couple?
.
_H*