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http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/2/AmericanFlag.jpg A Review, Group Meet and Driver/Passenger commentary from just about everybody! (cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?p=210037)

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/501/2010_Ford_Fusion_Hybrid_Challenge_Vehicle_in_front_of_the_Capital_on_Tuesday_Morning.jpgWayne Gerdes - CleanMPG (cleanmpg.com) - May 23, 2009

2010 Ford Fusion Hybrid in front of the Capital just hours after completing its record breaking drive.

Dearborn , MI to the Wisconsin border

A few weeks ago we began corresponding with Ford about presenting the “actual” 1,000 mile Challenge - Ford Fusion Hybrid vehicle at the May 22, 2009 MiHG Meet for discussions, test drives and clinics. This also provides us with the opportunity to provide a full review of what is undoubtedly America's best Hybrid Automobile.

As most know, the Fusion Hybrid is not only touted but now proven to be the most fuel efficient mid-sized sedan available in the world and is definitely Ford's halo vehicle. Besides the "Best in Class" hybrid drivetrain as has been discussed many times in the past, we hope to provide what we like, dislike and just want to talk about regarding the 2010 Ford Fusion Hybrid.

What is the Fusion Hybrid automobile like as a daily driver? Is the quality there? Does it handle well? Is it comfortable? From May 22 through 25th, we hope to answer those questions and more.

Let’s begin

Starting mileage – Odometer at 10,159.9. Filled up just before Jackson, MI.

Deb driving in temps from 72 to 76 degrees F. First driver swap with odometer at 10,289.4 miles and 129.5 miles out. OEM FCD at 59.0 mpgUS during this all-highway segment.
Debbie Anders (Debbiekatz): When I am ready to trade my FEH in, I will definitely look for another Ford Hybrid :)

Even with Tire pressures maxxed, the ride is very smooth!

4-cylinder feels really smooth. Almost like a V8!

Very seamless transitions between ICE-On and EV. I had to watch the EV Threshold display in the SmartGauge to know for sure.

60 + mpg can occur with the ICE-On for short periods.
Wayne Gerdes (xcel): Front passenger seat does not lay flat. It will recline to a max angle of approximately 135 degrees :(
Wayne driving in temps from 72 down to 53 degrees.

Fuel gauge – first pixel below full at 200 miles.

Finished the drive home with odometer at 10,441.9 miles and 282.1 miles out. OEM FCD at 60.0 mpgUS on this 99% all-highway segment although a 50-minute, downtown Chicago – Memorial Day “Stop and Crawl” helped boost the OEM FCD up to over 60.4 mpg’s before the final stretch fell to 60.0 mpg as we arrived into my drive.

Morning of May 23rd
Wayne’s wife Marian: The rear seat belts do not adjust for shorter people and/or kids. They cut into your neck.
Drove the entire family to O’Hare in Chicago, than to a Milwaukee area Car Wash and than to the Milwaukee Hybrid Group Meet in Oak Creek, WI in temps from 57 to 63 degrees F. Pulled into the library with odometer at 10,543.8 miles and 383.9 miles out. OEM FCD at 59.7 mpgUS.

Milwaukee Hybrid Group Meet – Ford Fusion Hybrid theme

40 Hybrid drivers and 8-new members joined us for the bi-monthly meet with the threat of rain failing to materialize :) In other words, perfect conditions!

The Ford Fusion Hybrid has been talked about in previous meetings by members Debbie Anders, Wayne Gerdes and Randy Mays. This time however, the members received the opportunity to both see one in person and drive it! Debbie and I drove it from Dearborn the day before. This is the actual vehicle that set the new midsize sedan distance and fuel economy world record of 1445.7 miles on a single tank of fuel at 81.5 mpg. More than double the EPA combined estimate.

Brian Finnerty of Ford Motor Company was in attendance to give a presentation on Ford’s vision for the future over the coming years and decades. A Q&A period lasting almost 20-minutes ensued with the Ford Rep answering questions about Ford’s EcoBoost technology and Ford’s upcoming Battery Electric Vehicles.

MiHG member Frank Irger provided initial impressions of his Ford Fusion Hybrid. He traded in a 2007 Toyota Prius-II for his 2010 Ford Fusion Hybrid. Being the owner of the first Ford Fusion Hybrid delivered to a customer in all of Wisconsin and with less than 400-miles on the odometer, the following said it all.Frank Irger: This is not a car, it is an “Automobile”!
I gave a quick overview of the Ford Fusion Hybrid – 1,000-mile Challenge - including the initial idea, the drivers, initial testing, training and of course a few stories about the event itself. One of those included the British Revolutionary War Era guards watching over the Fusion Hybrid just before the “1,000-mile Challenge” begun which was one of my highlights.

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/500/2010_Ford_Fusion_Challenge_Vehicles_with_Guards_at_Mt_Vernon.jpg
Red Coats protecting the Fusion Hybrid at Mt Vernon, Virginia.

With a few minutes for Q&A, I encouraged the membership to drive or ride in the vehicle for Hypermiling clinics which kept us busy from the meetings end until late into the afternoon.

2010 Ford Fusion Hybrid – Hypermiling Clinics

With upwards of four in the car during the driving clinics and initial instructions including the fact their FE will be part of the actual 2010 Ford Fusion Hybrid Review, the drivers were eager to take on Ford’s Fusion Hybrid and take it on they did!

Larry Sohn: Temps in the low 70’s and a final odometer of 10,553.0 miles. Segment per calibrated SG-II (4% negative offset) = 68.5 mpgUS including a warm-up hit on this slower speed, all-suburban stop light to stop light drive.! OEM FCD for the tank now at 59.8 mpgUS. Larry is a professor at a local college.
Larry Sohn: Really enjoyed the feeling of the Fusion Hybrid's ride and learning the techniques to save fuel.
Doug Nordstrom: Temps in the low 70’s and a final odometer of 10,561.4 miles. Segment per calibrated SG-II (4% negative offset) = 68.5 mpgUS in this slower speed, all-suburban stop light to stop light drive. OEM FCD for the tank at 60.0 mpgUS.
Doug Nordstrom: Nice Car! I am sure with a little more time learning how to work it, I am positive I could do even better.
Chris Carini: Temps in the low 70’s and a final odometer of 10,569.5 miles. Segment per calibrated SG-II (4% negative offset) = 77.8 mpgUS in this slower speed, all-suburban stop light to stop light drive. OEM FCD for the tank now at 60.3 mpgUS. Chris is a 20-year old college student...
Chris Carini: WOW! Ford’s SmartGauge is more fun than a Video Game!!!
Vern Carlson: Temps in the mid 70’s and a final odometer of 10,577.3 miles. Segment per calibrated SG-II (4% negative offset) = 67.3 mpgUS in this slower speed, all-suburban stop light to stop light drive. OEM FCD for the tank now at 60.4 mpgUS.
Vern Carlson: Pretty darn nice for a large Mid-size! I cannot wait to drive a Fusion Hybrid on the Interstate.
Tom McInerney: Temps in the mid 70’s and a final odometer of 10,585.0 miles. Segment per calibrated SG-II (4% negative offset) = 81.3 mpgUS in this slower speed, all-suburban stop light to stop light drive. OEM FCD for the tank now at 60.7 mpgUS.
Tom McInerney: Nice car, runs smooth and is comfortable both front and back. Operates very efficiently once one learns the ins and outs.
MiHG clinic conclusion: Key on to Key off – OEM FCD summary screen: 72.1 mpgUS over 41.2 miles.

Nice job guys! You did not harm the review tank at all ;)

Debbie duplicates her home to work daily grind

Temps in the mid 70’s and a final odometer of 10,592.7 miles. Oak Creek library to a friend’s home. Segment per calibrated SG-II (4% negative offset) = 64.2 mpgUS in this mid-speed, all-suburban stop light to stop light drive. OEM FCD for the tank now at 60.8 mpgUS.

Temps in the low 70’s and a final odometer of 10,615.1 miles. Home to work and back. Segment per calibrated SG-II (4% negative offset) = 67.7 mpgUS in this mid-speed, all-suburban stop light to stop light drive. OEM FCD for the tank now at 61.1 mpgUS.

Temps in the high 60’s and a final odometer of 10,620.5 miles. Home back to Culver’s. Segment per calibrated SG-II (4% negative offset) = 68.5 mpgUS in this slower speed, all-suburban stop light to stop light drive. OEM FCD for the tank now at 61.2 mpgUS.

All said, yet another success promoting the future for current and future Hybrid drivers from both Southeastern WI and Northeastern IL.

Competitive P&G

40.6 miles, ~ 30 stop signs, ~ 15 stop lights and a drive from Culver’s to Oak Creek Library to my Parents' house in Illinois...

Temps from 68 to 56 degrees and a final odometer of 10,661.1 miles. Segment per calibrated SG-II (4% negative offset) = 84.2 mpgUS. Key on to Key off – OEM FCD summary screen: 84.5 mpgUS over 40 miles and .5 gallons consumed. OEM FCD for the tank now at 62.5 mpgUS.

Mom (Lady Spirit) drives to drop off a rental movie

Temp of 53 degrees and a final odometer of 10,665.7 miles. 4.6 mile RT segment per calibrated SG-II (4% negative offset) = 52.3 mpgUS in this mid-speed, all-suburban stop light to stop light drive. OEM FCD for the tank at 62.4 mpgUS.

Bringing it on home...

Temps from 53 to 55 degrees and a final odometer of 10,680.2 miles. Segment per calibrated SG-II (4% negative offset) = 65.0 mpgUS on this mid-speed, all-suburban stop sign and light to stop light drive. OEM FCD for the tank now at 62.5 mpgUS.

Quick trip to downtown Chicago and back...

Temps from 53 to 60 degrees and a final odometer of 10,793.9 miles. Segment per calibrated SG-II (4% negative offset) = 66.0 mpgUS on this mid-speed Interstate and low to mid-speed country road drive from parents to home. OEM FCD for the tank now at 63.1 mpgUS.

½ tank per the Fuel Gauge indicated at 590 miles out.

Back to Dearborn

Temps from 51 to 75 and a final odometer of 11,165.8 miles. The drive consisted of a 10 – 15 mph headwind all the way :( Segment per calibrated SG-II (4% negative offset) = 56.5 mpgUS and the OEM FCD for the tank finished off at 61.4 mpgUS over 1005.8 miles. Tank still had ~ 1.5 gallons of fuel left.

¼ tank per the Fuel Gauge indicated at 800-miles out.

Wayne: Auto dimming mirror does not appear to dim fast enough at dusk.

Light switch on dash vs. stalk. Very 1980’s like.

Non-NAVI radio display uses a Dot matrix like font. Again, 1980’s like. Navi in the so equipped Ford FH and Mercury MH are absolutely gorgeous and works great.

Single failure of Bluetooth to connect to the Motorola Razer.

Arm rest is excellent with both a separate top and bottom latch. Honda Accord’s are confusing and work sporadically to open the proper compartment. Ford’s system is dead on.

On final fill, fuel on the ground... Again!
Debbie: Reflection of chrome inlay on the shift lever reflects into face with the sun at certain angles to the right front of the car.
Fuel Low Level indicated at 962.4 miles out.

Steady State cruise control FE testing... (2) 2-mile runs directly into and directly out of a 10-mph headwind/tailwind.

50 mph CC – average: 55 mpg.
60 mph CC – average: 52.3 mpg.

Arrived with Fuel Gauge sitting on the L and still not indicating bright red with 80 + % of its time spent on the Interstates between Milwaukee and Detroit.

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/523/2010_Ford_Fusion_Hybrid_-_Passenger_Rear_High.jpg

2010 Ford Fusion Hybrid – Review Segment and Tank FE Details

Date|Odometer (km)|Driver|Temps (Degrees F)|Segment Distance (miles)|Tank Distance (miles)|Tank FCD (mpgUS)|SG-II (mpg w/ 4% negative offset)|Notes
05/22/09|10,159.9|NA|76|NA|0|NA|NA|Topped off just before Jackson, MI.
05/22/09|10,289.4|Debbie|72 - 76|129.5|129.5|59.0|58.0|100% Highway - Break and Driver Swap.
05/22/09|10,441.9|Wayne|53 - 72|152.6|282.1|60.0|59.0|99% Highway - Arrived home at 10:30 PM.
||||||||
05/23/09|10,543.8|Wayne|57 - 63|101.8|383.9|59.7|58.2|99% Highway - Took the family to O'Hare and drive to MiHG Meet in Oak Creek, WI.
05/23/09|10,553.0|Larry S.|72|9.2|393.1|59.8|68.5|Clinic - Low to Mid-speed, all-suburban stop light to stop light drive. Driving clinic including warm-up hit.
05/23/09|10,561.4|Doug N.|72|8.4|401.5|60.0|68.5|Clinic - Low to Mid-speed, all-suburban stop light to stop light drive. Driving clinic.
05/23/09|10,569.5|Chris C.|74|8.1|409.6|60.3|77.8|Clinic - Low to Mid-speed, all-suburban stop light to stop light drive. Driving clinic.
05/23/09|10,577.3|Vern C.|75|7.8|417.4|60.4|67.3|Clinic - Low to Mid-speed, all-suburban stop light to stop light drive. Driving clinic.
05/23/09|10,585.0|Tom M.|76|7.7|425.1|60.7|81.3|Clinic - Low to Mid-speed, all-suburban stop light to stop light drive. Driving clinic.
05/23/09| - | - | - | - | - | - | - |Clinics overall - 72.1 mpgUS over 41 miles.
05/23/09|10,592.7|Debbie|76|7.7|432.8|60.8|64.2|Mid-speed, all-suburban stop light to stop light drive. Oak Creek Library to drop off friend.
05/23/09|10,615.1|Debbie|75 - 76|22.4|455.2|61.1|67.7|Mid-speed, all-suburban stop light to stop light drive.Work commute and back.
05/23/09|10,620.5|Debbie|71|5.4|460.8|61.2|68.5|Low to Mid-speed, all-suburban stop light to stop light drive. Home back to Culver's
05/23/09|10,661.1|Wayne|56 - 68|40.6|501.4|62.5|84.5|Low to Mid-speed, all-suburban stop light to stop light drive. Culver's to Oak Creek Library to parents. Comp P&G.
05/23/09|10,665.7|Karen G.|53|4.6|506.0|62.4|52.3|Mid-speed, all-suburban stop light to stop light drive. Parents home to return movies and back.
05/23/09|10,680.2|Wayne|53- 55|14.5|520.5|62.5|65.0|Mid-speed, all-suburban stop light to stop light drive. Parents home to mine at night.
||||||||
05/24/09|10,680.2|Wayne|53- 55|14.5|520.5|62.5|65.0|Mid-speed, all-suburban stop light to stop light drive. Parents home to mine at night.
05/24/09|10,779.4|Wayne|53- 60|99.2|619.4|63.1|66.2|Slow to Mid-speed Interstate to downtown Chicago and back to parents home to mine at night.
05/24/09|10,793.9|Wayne|53- 55|14.5|633.9|63.1|65.2|Mid-speed, all-suburban stop light to stop light drive. Parents home to mine at night.
||||||||
05/25/09|10,907.7|Wayne|51 – 65|113.8|747.8|63.1|63.1|Slow to Mid-speed Interstate to MI/IN border.
05/25/09|11,122.2|Debbie|65 - 73|214.5|960.8|61.4|57.0|10 + mph headwinds on a Mid-speed Interstate drive from MI border to Dearborn, MI. Lunch Break.
05/25/09|11,136.7|Debbie|71 - 74|14.6|975.4|61.5|83.5|Clinic - Low to Mid-speed, all-suburban stop light to stop light drive.
05/25/09|11,165.8|Debbie|73 - 76|30.5|1005.9| 61.5|56.8|Mid to High-speed Highway FE testing and final top-off fuel fill.

2010 Ford Fusion Hybrid FE Ratings|City|Highway|Combined|CleanMPG Observed Fuel Economy
US|41 mpgUS|36 mpgUS|39 mpgUS|62.16 mpgUS
British Imperial|49.2 mpgIMP|43.2 mpgIMP|46.8 mpgIMP|74.6 mpgIMP
European/Asian Metric|5.76 L/100 Km|6.53 L/100 Km|6.03 L/100 Km|3.78 L/100 Km

Review Tank data: 1005.9 miles on 16.182 gallons = 62.16 mpgUS.

http://www.cleanmpg.com/garage/images/3001.png
http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/500/Terrapass_Sig.jpg

Interesting read Wayne, looking forward to the ending.

I've already seen a couple of these driving around Toronto and they are a nice looking vehicle.

Lookin' pretty schweet, consistent with the expectations aired
a couple of months ago. Now all they need to do is a hatchback
version.
.
_H*

I'll bet that people who were thinking about a new 2010 Prius are now
wondering about the new Fusion.. (I know I am)!

Since price isn't the issue for most of us, this Choice is going to be difficult
for a some of us.

I like that rear bumper graphic better than my own, I'll take it on my next car, or if we redesign for any reason.

Spoke with Wayne at 17:15
1005.9 miles
800 of which were highway ~ 80%

16.182 Gallons
for 62.16 MPG! Good work guys.

"What is the Fusion Hybrid automobile like as a daily driver? Is the quality there? Does it handle well? Is it comfortable? From June 22 through 25th, we hope to answer those questions and more."

Is that supposed to read June or May? I'm assuming May since the results are already posted.

Hi KrazyDawg:

___Ooops... You should have picked this up yesterday when I had the entire table showing the segments driven in April :D

___The Review drive is complete and after 1,005 + miles in the 2010 FFH and over 700 in the Accord over the last 5 days, I am tired... And if offered to do it again tomorrow, sure :D

___I finished up the review tank details plus additional comments (both good and bad) to the initial post...

___In addition, a few additional pics...

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/523/2010_Ford_Fusion_Hybrid_-_1_000_Mile_Challenge_Vehicle_at_final_fill.jpg
2010 Ford Fusion at final fill at a Dearborn, MI Shell station.

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/523/2010_Ford_Fusion_Hybrid_-_final_fill_with_fuel_on_the_ground.jpg
2010 Ford Fusion – Top-offs always place fuel on the ground :mad:

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/523/2010_Ford_Fusion_Hybrid_-1005_9_miles_on_16_182_gallons.jpg
16.182 gallons...

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/523/Fillup_at_61_5_mpg_and_1005_9_miles.jpg
2010 Ford Fusion SmartGauge w/ EcoGuide at final fill. 1005.9 miles at 61.5 mpgUS.

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/523/Ford_Ranger_Electric_Truck.jpg
Guess what we saw sitting behind a lab in Dearborn ;) Unfortunately, the tires
were almost flat and the one behind appeared to not have been driven in years :(

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/523/Ford_Ranger_Electric_Logo.jpg
Ford Ranger Electric P/U truck logo...

___Good Luck

___Wayne

Debbie and Wayne,

I'd like to learn more about the first segments of your trip. To acheive 58 - 59 mpg with 99 - 100% highway driving, what driving techniques and speeds were used? Did you have a scan gauge installed? Does this vehicle benefit from a Super Highway Mode-like technique with a IGN # sweet spot. I am especially interested in your average speeds on the highway and speed fluctuations required to acheive 59 mpg on the highway. Thanks for any info that you can add!

Hi SolarBird:

___For the drive from Dearborn to the IL/WI border, we were using WS and 47 mph EV/Glide capability for most of the larger downhill’s along I-94. We had an ~ 5 to 10 mph tail wind to Kalamazoo and a 5 - 10 mph headwind from there all the way around the bottom of the lake (Michigan) until we reached the I-80/90/94 Junction just within IL. Temps began to fall off but traffic picked up with the resultant stop and crawl through Chicago helping the average climb over .5 mpg’s before falling back over the next 50 + miles to 60.0 on the FCD.

Initial 98 + % Interstate/Highway segment from just outside Jackson, MI to the IL/WI border (the place I call home ;)).
http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/523/60_0_mpgUS_after_initial_282_miles_of_99_Interstate.jpg

___Basic techniques... Top speeds of 54 mph and using any off shoots for a quick hit alternate to get a long glide and resulting pulse in where they availed themselves.

___There is no SHM mode in the FFH like the Prius-II and TCH unfortunately but any accel not climbing above the 1.5 detent displayed on the SmartGauge w/ EcoGuide's Empower mode - Power Meter (first bar is min and eight is max) and working just above the minimum PSL's when applicable.

___During the trip back out, we were a bit more aggressive with the 47 mph EV/Glide capability plus quick hit alternates due to the 10 + mph headwinds all the way across MI. I had Debbie step it up a notch over the last 70 miles where she went from 60.9 back up to 61.4 per the FCD with already over 800 miles already built into the aFCD but she had to work for it that most outside of CleanMPG would be unwilling to do the same unfortunately :(

___Good Luck

___Wayne

... 47 mph EV/Glide capability for most of the larger downhill’s along I-94 ...

So, just to make sure I understand, were you able to EV glide above 47 mph as long as you didn't accelerate? Similar to the EV glide in the FEH, can't accelerate past 35, but you can glide up to 40? If so, at what MPH did it kick the ICE on? Or am I misunderstanding?

- Rob

Hi Rob:

___The FFH can Glide from 47 mph on down without the ICE spinning (not WS). The FEH as well as the HSD equipped hybrids can glide from 41 on down with the ICE-Off.

___All of the HSD and eCVT based hybrids can WS at any speed above their respective EV/Glide limitations with the ICE spinning over but no fuel being consumed. A whole bunch of Wh’s are required for this however. The Toyota HSD equipped Hybrid's can run in WN on the way up and through the 41 mph limitations with the proper terrain as well but that one is a bit advanced for this discussion. The FFH/FEH will not allow that mode to occur unfortunately :(

___Good Luck

___Wayne

I don't know why this would cause people to second guess their Prius. While it is great to see real competition, this hypermiling clinic setting isn't a "real world" application.

What is the steady state, cruise at 65 mph? (50 and 60 leave me very worried about getting rear-ended) One can't argue that this scenario isn't a responsible (even conservative) driving technique.

edited to add: there is a duplicate line in the OP at odometer 10680.2 : my spreadsheet didn't add up. also, units are mixed. I assume the odometer is in miles, not km: otherwise yo've only got a sub 700 mile tank... :)

Hi Essaunders:

___Hypermiling clinics are to teach others to drive efficiently and responsibly which is where the 70 + mpg numbers lye in the case of the Ford Fusion Hybrid. This is real world vs. the stop light to stop light drag races that were occurring on the same roadways where I was teaching others to drive to the level they did. Unfortunately, that only accounted for ~ 90 miles of the 1,005 miles driven with the rest being Interstates between Milwaukee, Chicago and Detroit. If you want to see what hypermiling a Ford Fusion to its limits is worth, the following is a pretty good read :)

Fusion Hybrid Averages 81.5_MPG, Sets World Record With 1,445 Miles On Single Tank Of Fuel. (www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21523)

___This is a 2010 Ford Fusion Hybrid, not the smaller 2009 or 2010 Prius. Comparisons to the Camry and Camry Hybrid are in order as all are larger automobiles and sell in much larger quantity than the Prius. If Ford ever decides to make a Prius sized hybrid, everyone will jump on that comparison given a loss of at least 700 pounds, a loss of a few square foot of frontal area, a smaller interior and a much smaller engine. I am quite positive that vehicle will astound us just as the Prius class hybrids have done in the past and will far into the future.

___Similarly, I did discuss a Prius sized Hybrid with some of the Ford engineers and they would love to do one if the economics made sense to the Ford Motor Company today. Ford’s tech is certainly capable given the above. The $’s however are not available unfortunately :(

___As far as 65 mph cruise, that is not a responsible driving technique by any means and illegal on as much as 80% of America’s roadways. Considering we import ~ 12 million barrels of oil per day (do the math on the wealth transfer) and emit over 1.5 Billion pounds of CO2 from just those 12 million BPD's daily, 65 mph CC is not responsible, is not safe, is not legal on most roads and is not an environmentally conscious way of driving. I did however include the 60 mph CC numbers for the 2010 Ford Fusion Hybrid for everyone above.

___Regarding the duplicate, it was driven on both the 23rd and 24th (after midnight) so I left it in under both days...

___I believe miles has been stated a number of times on this review tank?

___Good Luck

___Wayne

Wayne
Thanks for the reply. The details you provide are very informative. Please don't take my previous post as disrespectful. I was just poking at your data to learn more. The various data points, both city and highway, are very useful. While I do agree that most us road are speed-limited below 65, the 65 number (75 out west) is the typical interstate limit. So, I respectfully disagree on your assessment of that speed. Yes, slowing down will use less gas than going faster, the reality is the (for my example) NH to MD on route 95 with the cruise set at 65. My 07 prius pulled 52mpg both down and back while carrying four adults comfortably.
Now with five adults, I would really wouldn't want the prius: what would the ffh do in this situation?
I won't ask about the Salt Lake City to Missoula trip (speed limit 75 though Idaho)

Hi Essaunders:

___On the way back from Dearborn, the Accord allowed 51.2 mpg while averaging 55 mph with two in the car.

___Was the 10 mph worth it in a Prius that has worse emissions than my Accord and is smaller?

___On a similar note, the next time you want to panic stop in the real world from 65 mph, you will find out how short a football field really is whereas from 50 to 60, no problem...

___You will not get run over with a differential of 10 mph when traveling in the right hand lane. That is a slower differential than most drive through Wal-Mart parking lots with kids darting in and out of cars into the roadway without the half mile of road behind you that you are seen from and 3,000 pounds of metal with enough airbags to float the car if it went submerged surrounding you.

___And back to the FFH. It will dominate the Prius if you intend to drive it for just 52 mpg. A Prius is worth so much more and I highly encourage you to take advantage of what it has to offer. In reality however, the Camry is the focus when it comes to the FFH and we hope to have one later this summer for review...

___Good Luck

___Wayne

Just 10mph differential? You should see the stunts the locals here try to pull.

Hi Essaunders:

___On the way back from Dearborn, the Accord allowed 51.2 mpg while averaging 55 mph with two in the car.

___Was the 10 mph worth it in a Prius that has worse emissions than my Accord and is smaller?



Wayne
Can you let me know how my Prius has worse emissions than your Accord? Official comparisons of the 05 accord vs the 07 prius (fueleconomy.gov) disagree.
Apparently, my 10mph was worth it: I comfortably carried four people on a long trip and had a little more time to visit with family at the end.

I do agree that the Prius can do much more than the 52mpg I achieved. But this trip was about 100% better than my other available alternatives. I applaud Ford for having very attractive options and you for helping the public recongnize the value. The FFH and other similar options will give more people the chance to make the 100% improvement right now!

erik

Wayne's Accord is the PZEV model.

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/compx2008f.jsp?year=2005&make=Honda&model=Accord&hiddenField=Findacar

I tried to do a Side By Side and they kept defaulting to the dirtier Accord rather than the PZEV, his is the one that scores 9 not the one that scores 6

ok. so my prius is a 9.5 AT-PZEV. They are almost the same. Thanks for the info:

(A little off topic, but relevant...)
with cleaner and cleaner cars coming out (both CO2 and other emissions) is there a push to update/change the emissions ratings to keep up? How will the general public be able to tell the difference and make informed decisions?

Hi Essaunders:

___Regarding the Accord, Kacey has it right. Honda's are the cleanest vehicles on the road when it comes to their PZEV's... Until the Insight-II that is. The Clean State based Accord, Accord Hybrid, HCH-II and Civic GX are Tier II/Bin 2 rated vehicles. The Insight-II, Prius-II/-III, TCH, FFH and FEH from the same are Tier II/Bin 3 rated vehicles. If you consider CO2, I am a bit behind most Prius’ at ~ 48 mpgUS but I am trying to do better every time I turn the key.

___Regarding arriving in comfort... The Prius-II and now the -III are not as comfortable as the TCH/FFH by any means.

___Arriving and enjoying... The few minutes it would have cost you for 10 + mpg is a Want vs. Need. Debbie and I drove the premiere domestic Mid-sized Hybrid from the IL/WI border to Dearborn plus one of the former premier mid-sized sedans back from in less than 16-hours including 15-miles of clinics, breaks, SS cruise testing and pics in the Detroit area. It was extremely comfortable, hopefully rewarding for our members with the details provided and most of all, fun to find out how to drive the FFH better than any of us would have known about before.

___The FFH offers those that would consider the TCH another excellent choice for great FE and excellent comfort if they are considering a true-midsize vehicle.

___I applaud that you own a Prius but please do not "throw it away" as it is a weapon of choice for fighting our current ills. Using it to just 65% of its potential is a loss for not only you but for the rest of us as well :(

___Good Luck

___Wayne

I comfortably carried four people on a long trip and had a little more time to visit with family at the end.

Did you really save that much?

At 60 miles per hour, it takes 60.00 seconds to go 1 mile.
At 70 miles per hour, it takes 51.43 seconds to go 1 mile.

Savings: 8.57 seconds per mile.

At that rate, you'd have to drive 70.01 miles to save 10 minutes of travel time.

OK. What's the threshold? on a 600 mile trip I arrive 45 minutes sooner by driving 65 rather than 60 and over 2 and half hours sooner than Wayne (driving at 50). Figure I use three more gallons of gas for the trip (me at 52mpg, Wayne at 70): So $12 worth of gas vs 2.77 hours (for 4 people, don't forget). in this situation, take the 11 man hours of relaxing with family for $12 gas cost.

But my example is for me. What does the social incentive need to be to get generic people to use vehicles like the FFH or the Prius AND drive them efficiently? Education, like what Wayne is doing, helps enthusiasts drive more efficiently, and (perhaps more importantly) will get mainstream Joe and Jane to ditch the 15mpg SUV and get the 40mpg FFH. That change is far more important (right now) than debating the diminishing returns of 50 vs 65 mph in an already efficient vehicle.

Hi Essaunders:

___I am not sure where you get 11-hours over 600-miles but $'s should only be a part of the reason to save fuel. You compared a FFH receiving far more FE and far more comfortable yet probably cost only 1 extra hour of travel time vs. your vehicle to boot.

___Additionally, when you drive at 65 mph, there is no way you will ever come close to averaging 65-mph. It just doesn't work that way. The Auto journalists I speak with get a little peeved when I mention that if they averaged 70 mph, the back of their garages would be a busted up open hole due to every time they came into it, they drove right through the back, drove through two neighbors fences and their car for some reason continues to come to rest at the bottom of a pool two houses down. All because they could not stop from 70 mph when entering into their garage.

___Do not fall into the same trap and do the actual math for average speeds. Better yet, re-read the 2010 Prius-III Preview to see what a Prius owners 65 mph average Interstate speed “actually was” in terms of average speed vs. the CC set at 65-mph which is what it was set too.

___The FFH is a kick-@$$ Hybrid and one of only eight automobiles in the US that is really worth considering today. As you can tell by the 62 mpg average over 1,005 miles, the FFH is definitely one of those eight vehicles ;)

___Good Luck

___Wayne

Sorry about the thread drift - your point on ave speed is well taken. In reality my 600 mile trip was over two days anyway (and 11 hours is four people times 2.77 hour drive time delta)... (and in this example, I was giving you credit for driving a prius, not FFH)

Thanks again for your review. Now, if I just had a nearby Ford dealer that wasn't owned by a complete arrogant bastard, I'd go drive the FFH. My subaru is going to die sooner or later...

The FFH is a kick-@$$ Hybrid and one of only eight automobiles in the US that is really worth considering today.
___Wayne


So, Wayne, would you care to correct the following list of those eight?

Prius II/III
FFH/MMH
HCH II
HI II
FEH/MMH

Jetta TDI

Fit
Yaris

Hi Ksstathead:

___You have been reading too much CleanMPG, haven't you ;)

___Good Luck

___Wayne

So, Wayne, would you care to correct the following list of those eight?

Prius II/III
FFH/MMH
HCH II
HI II
FEH/MMH

Jetta TDI

Fit
Yaris

I know I am not Wayne, but I think he would agree that for those that really need a small pick-up the Ranger is the best of them.

Yes, agreed on the Ranger w/ 4cyl and 5MT.

Also, if you include the Fit and Yaris, it becomes hard to exclude a Scion xD or other economy priced models of similar size.

Further, I think the spirit here supports any purchase where the vehicle will mostly be used consistent with its design passenger/cargo/towing capability (not as a daily driver solo car).

I have some concern with the performance BEV's (ala Tesla), due to the amount of batteries required, yet compared to a high-end gas competitor...

But the 8 listed are pretty good for covering the daily driver mass market.

I'd throw another one on the list:

The car you already have.

I'd throw another one on the list:

The car you already have.

Another great answer.

The Ranger isn't the best choice for a daily driver (excluding MT's since he uses it for courier work), but it's the best choice I have right now.

___I applaud that you own a Prius but please do not "throw it away" as it is a weapon of choice for fighting our current ills. Using it to just 65% of its potential is a loss for not only you but for the rest of us as well :(

___Good Luck

___Wayne

Perfectly put Wayne.