Archives

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/2/AmericanFlag.jpg VW talks smack while Toyota talks flowers??? (cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?p=209207)

http://www.youtube.com/v/kqfsLcSUIJo&rel=0&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf&hl=en&feature=player_embedded&fs=1Wayne Gerdes - CleanMPG (cleanmpg.com) - May 20, 2009

2009 VW Jetta TDI - $22,270 to start and 34 mpgUS combined on the 08 EPA.

The 2009 Jetta TDI turbo-diesel was awarded the 2009 Green Car of the Year® by Green Car Journal at the LA Autoshow back in Nov. of 2008. Additionally the 09 Jetta TDI has been praised by the automotive press the world over as being both green and quick. Quick being relative of course but reasonably powerful would possibly be a better description.

According to VW, there’s a myth that you cannot be both green and fast. With the 2009 VW TDI and its 140 HP, 236 lbs-ft of torque engine plus Autobahn-tuned suspension, VW promises more than just great fuel efficiency and low emissions. To prove it, VW invited 2008 Jetta TDI Cup Champion Josh Hurley to drive a 2009 VW Jetta TDI sedan with a MT against the 2009 Toyota Prius hybrid for a one on one Smackdown at the track.

In Toyota’s corner, VW fortunately and probably “accidentally ;)” chose the Prius-II Touring edition with the 16’s, tighter suspension and higher lateral grip.

Although a little bias was bled into the video, the facts were there and in VW's corner, it is tough to beat the facts...

Possible conclusions?

The VW Jetta TDI is certainly faster than the 2009 Prius-II and even the 2010 Toyota Prius-III. Where that would be used however is definitely up for interpretation.

FE -- Until we take the Jetta TDI Sportwagen with a stick out for its maiden voyage under CleanMPG tutelage (09 VW Jetta TDI Sportwagen with a stick – Review Blog 05-27 to 06-03 ( cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22074)), who knows? From what we know so far, the 09 Jetta TDI cannot take down the 09 Prius in the city or on the highway below 60 mph. Above that and things turnaround in the TDI’s favor possibly? The 2010? The VW Jetta TDI might have trouble at any speed with that one?

Emissions -- Here both the 2009 Toyota Prius-II and 2010 Toyota Prius-III have the edge as they meet SULEV-II specs vs. the 2009 VW Jetta TDI's ULEV-II rating.

During VW’s burnout stunt, I saw the Jetta TDI’s rear wheels locked up while the fronts were spinning and carrying the vehicle forward... It appears that the 09 Jetta TDI was using the parking brake since the regular brakes would hold the TDI at 0 MPH and the front wheels at 0 RPM no matter how much accelerator pedal was applied?

With the 2010 Toyota Prius-III almost here, I suspect the Jetta is in for a closer race...

09 VW Jetta TDI vs. 09 Toyota Prius-II Results

¼ Mile Drag Race|Time (seconds)
2009 VW Jetta TDI|16.5
2009 Toyota Prius-II|17.8
|
Slalom Course|mph
2009 VW Jetta TDI|60.1
2009 Toyota Prius-II|58.4
|
300’ Skid Pad|G-Force (g’s)
2009 VW Jetta TDI|.83g’s
2009 Toyota Prius-II|.81g’s

Car and Driver 09 VW Jetta TDI vs. 2010 Toyota Prius-II Results

¼ Mile Drag Race|Time @ mph (seconds @ mph)
2009 VW Jetta TDI|16.4 @ 84 mph
2010 Toyota Prius-II|17.3 @ 81 mph
|
300’ Skid Pad|G-Force (g’s)
2009 VW Jetta TDI|.81g’s
2010 Toyota Prius-II|TBD
|
C/D Observed FE|mpg
2009 VW Jetta TDI|33 mpg
2010 Toyota Prius-III|A lot higher ;)

If you had the choice, would you choose the 2009 VW Jetta TDI or the 2010 Toyota Prius-III? Let the games begin :)

I'll go with the FE in this one.

When I first sat in a Prius was shocked to see no hand brake so with my disability this is a show stopper. The seats in the Jetta were superior too. Jonathan.

Prius for reliability.
Prius for emissions.
TDI for manual transmission
TDI for available wagon, though the Prius gets halfway there.
TDI for the stealth factor. Nobody looks twice at a VW like they do a Prius.

I'd generally tip towards the VW TDI, except for that first point. If it was a Honda or Toyota TDI I'd be all over it.

Prius for reliability and better FE. TDI fuel stinks. Hal

I don't know if I would put both cars in the same category let alone having them compared.

At the core of it all, we find BIG differences in the driving and ownership experiences which are clearly worlds apart not only in terms of purpose and design, but also in their respective accomplishments.

But, given the visible bias I am quite positive this "test" accomplished its intended goal.

Cheers;

MSantos

I didn't see any hypermiling in that so-called test. In fact, everything I saw was the reverse of hypermiling.

Of course, that point will be lost on the masses.

The real question I have is, what mpg did those two vehicles get while being flogged?

Harry

If I remember correctly the TDI came out ahead?:confused: Hal

I'll take the 2010 Prius over any current VW product. I look the futuristic (Star Trekkie) nature of the Prius not to mention it is the FE king in the U.S.

The VW would be more fun, but I'd take the Prius because it's more flexible, reliable and lower TCO.

The VW would be more fun, but I'd take the Prius because it's more flexible, reliable and lower TCO.

I've got my Honda VFR800 to provide more fun than any 4 wheeled vehicle can while still getting 50mpg...so Prius definitely for cager duty.

For drivers racking up mostly highway miles, I suspect the VW would be the wisest choice.
I'm actually going through this exact decision for our next much-needed family vehicle. The upcoming Golf TDI will be a few pounds lighter than the Jetta Wagon, so I'm on the fence between it and the 2010 Prius.

PS: Really stupid VW ad. How green is a cloud of burning rubber?

Hi Deezle:

___I have not yet voted in the poll because we have the 09 Jetta TDI Sportwagen arriving next week for some highway driving. I am also trying to procure the 2010 Prius-III for a similar highway drive to see if Toyota did give it that extra 3-mpg highway per the EPA in late June? I am very interested in both vehicles capabilities and it should be a good time to wring them out with temps up although winds are probably not going to cooperate.

___The poll currently is running 5:1 in favor of the Prius-III but if the Jetta TDI Sportwagen does well, it might change some hearts and minds ;)

___Good Luck

___Wayne

I'd take the Prius for all the P&G and SHM tricks you can do with it.

I'm going to reserve my vote as well until after the test next week.

I would take the TDI as it stands today.

My Prius did best on the quarter mile (on a proper drag strip) with either a neutral dropping, or waiting to press the accelerator hard until it was time, holding the car against the brake only force charged and caused sluggish starts.

The Prius can do a burnout if you use the park brake and have disabled the traction control (and don't care about warranties)

I don't remember what other "Points" they made this is just disgusting, the Apple vs PC ads while cute are just as maliciously lopsided and people don't like gloaters. Their ad on TV with the guy with the hose where they talk about how the VW won a Guinness record, our own CleanMPGers smashed that record this winter leaving theirs to stand for just a few weeks, in a hybrid (brand shall remain nameless as this is mostly Toyota and VW for now).

Hopefully the hybrid manufacturers don't make the mistake Microsoft did and sit there silent looking stupid while their product is slandered building horrible brand equity. Say the word Vista and you'll get mostly negative feedback, most of it no longer applicable.

I'll keep my 2000 Insight. :-) However, given the choice, I'd take a Prius (II or III) in a heartbeat over any current VW. The only VW I'm interested in right now is the VW 1 Liter Car (if it ever actually comes to market). The 1 Liter Car and the Aptera are the only two cars I'd consider replacing my 2000 Honda Insight with.

-Bryan

Considering that I just ordered a Prius, I just had to vote for it.

But it doesn't seem that their target markets overlap that much. TDI is still on my radar screen, though more as a 201X Subaru than a 2009 VW.

Wow, that's a tough decision. I've always been a fan of the Prius - my father was an early adopter and I was regularly driving his when few people in the US had even seen a Prius. Now both of my parents drive Prius II's. They've never had any problems with any of the Prii they've owned.

That said, I never really saw the Prius as my kind of car, mostly for purely irrational reasons. I'd like my next car to have a manual transmission, even though I acknowledge the sheer brilliance of the Hybrid Synergy Drive. And while I've seen firsthand how durable and reliable hybrids can be, I think I'd still fret about having batteries that would need replacement eventually. I do like diesel engines (at least from what I've heard), and it sounds like certain small ones get Prius-like economy without the extra complexity of a hybrid drivetrain.

What convinced me to vote for the Prius is the impressive reliability and low TCO that I've seen firsthand. I don't know how the Jetta compares in this regard, but I would certainly take a closer look if I was making a purchasing decision. Oh, and autostop. There's something really frustrating about a car that doesn't turn off its engine automatically when it's not needed.

The market doesn't overlap much now, but they are trying to keep people from considering hybrids as the gas price goes up.

It'll be most funny when they do get a hybrid in their fleet how they handle being total jerks about this whole thing when this comes back up to bite them.

Bringing this back from the dead.

It's no contest for me. If the Prius came in a wagon that could better handle transporting passengers + dogs I'd consider it. Otherwise it just doesn't cut it. If I were looking for a commuter car that doesn't meet family needs I'd probably get an old civic or crx in the hx or vx variety vs any of the current car hybrids out there.

We should make a poll between the Ford Escape Hybrid vs. TDI wagon.

Our labs have never batted an eye when asked to get into a Prius. I suppose bigger dogs (ours are about 60-65lb each) might start to have problems. Likewise, I have yet to have a complaint from even "full-size" rear passengers. One of the most surprising things about the car has been what will fit in it.

Are the dogs riding in the back seat? I use to do that by having a seat belt harness and putting dog pillows in the leg space area to make the back seat area the dog's space. I was ok with a sedan until there was a child car seat in the equation. I only have one dog, but she's 130# and pretty tall, and wagons work perfect for that. This isn't that unusual I work with someone with a 2nd gen Prius in a similar situation. They'll be going with a crossover for their next vehicle. The Prius is a great car and I agree for passengers there is nothing wrong with the back seat, I just wish they made a version that gave up a little highway aerodynamics for being a true wagon.

For longer trips we usually fold down a section of the back seat to give them more room. For short trips they just get the hatch area and don't seem to mind. (One thing we want to do in the near future is get some kind of barrier or harness system to keep them in place.) The only real problem, and right in line with your desire for an actual wagon, is the issue of closing the hatch when you have two dogs who don't really understand that their heads need to be **below** the roof line! But I can understand your problem if the one dog is the size of my two combined. I bet she would do fine with the hatch plus a folded seat but probably not in the hatch alone.

IDK. My in-laws should be bringing home their new TDI sportwagon today so I'm looking forward to poking around it. It might not have been my choice but I sure wasn't going to discourage them. Between the two cars I find it hard to pick a loser. You just like what you like.

I'll take the 2010 Prius over any current VW product. I look the futuristic (Star Trekkie) nature of the Prius not to mention it is the FE king in the U.S.

Same here. I like how the steering wheel looks like my brothers playstation 3 racing wheel. I know thats not everyones taste but I love. I do like the diesel, but if I have to pick one, I would go with the prius, because it is to me just alittle better overall. And all the teckkie stuff makes me smile. :D:D

The diesel was only a little faster. Probably not enough to matter in real world use.
The only prius I have driven peeled out off the line at a stop light. I was really impressed with the power from standstill and while at highway speeds. I like torquey motors more than raw horsepower so the tdi would be fun also. Both have more power than I need, but I would pick the diesel because I do a fair amount of long distance highway trips and need all the room I can get.

Sedan vs. hatchback. A fairer comparison would be the Prius vs the Golf TDI, both of which are very comparable in size. Not to mention price.

If it were me, I'd pick the Prius. I like Asian cars and how they drive.

If it were my wife, she'd choose the Golf TDI. She of course already has one (with 190k miles on it) and it's basically her dream car. She REALLY likes the Prius too, but if she had to replace her car today I'm sure she'd go for a new Golf.

Well, I'd really prefer the Jetta TDI Sportwagen over the sedan myself. ;)

I've got my Honda VFR800 to provide more fun than any 4 wheeled vehicle can while still getting 50mpg...so Prius definitely for cager duty.

i miss the days of my VFR. and i agree with your OUTSTANDING POST. now if i left the VFR out of the picture, i'd have to go VW. but that's just me for numerous reasons

Well, I'd really prefer the Jetta TDI Sportwagen over the sedan myself. ;)
I have nothing to add to this.

Whoops, I might have to retract my wife's vote for the Golf TDI. I didn't realize the new version was slashed to only 13cf of cargo space. That's pathetic. She'd probably take the Prius after all.

Hi Dan:

She will be asking for a new Prius v in short order ;)

Wayne

Yep, if it didn't cost nearly twice as much as our Hyundai we'd definitely be drooling over the Prius V. OK, we are drooling over it anyway.