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Cruising other forums makes me wonder sometimes. There seem to be spcific individuals on a crusade to sling mud at any and every fuel efficient driver who has gone on record. Many take the position that it isn't for them, which is fine. But what irritates me is people who claim that fuel efficient driving is either immoral or dangerous. This is usually accompanied by assertions that we will all blow out our tires, tie up traffic, burn more gas by driving all over creation, and a host of other ignorant BS. A few of these people will mention these things in every_single_post. A) What was done to brainwash these people? B) What do they think is accomplished? The only thing I see coming from it is the propagation of an extremely wasteful attitude. You either keep your foot on the gas or you aren't welcome in this society.

As I see it, we all have a responsibility to run damage control to some extent. I don't mean going head-to-head with these people, as not much can be accomplished by duking it out on the internet. Rather, my suggestion is that we all keep tabs on what we do in order to prevent generalizations from starting. "I drove an extra few miles to get my tank average up" is the big one, as that statement seems to catch a lot of attention. In some cases it may happen, in other cases it may be a simple case of using the wrong words to describe the reason for a segment. Just please be careful.

It's unfortunate, but educating others about responsible motoring is going to be an up-hill battle for the foreseeable future. I know that this community walks the walk. But image matters, and I firmly believe that the talking part is just as important.

To be clear about where I'm coming from, I could care less what others think of me. I DO care that we minimize the number of drivers who are turned off or intimidated before they even stop to listen. A few dozen people pushing the evelope won't solve our energy problem alone; it's going to take millions doing whatever they are willing to do.

brick,

Do I relate to this!

Some are trollers. Red flags go up when anybody joins and never discusses their vehicle, their driving, skips an intro, and jumps into a hot topic like Global Warming, PeakOil, some other hybrid-skeptic, anti-fuel-mizer mode.

Free speech is the cover trollers hide behind. Are Klansmen allowed at NAACP conventions? That's what trollers do on the net, and some people act as though I advocate forums being run like a police state when such obvious agitation occurs. The example I cited is not allowed in real life. The internet is populated by people. People should be as restrained on the net as face-to-face. Most internet problems are from this mistaken notion you can behave differently - that's fantasy.

Fortunately at CleanMPG, fuel-efficient and anti-green skeptics are required to be civil and understand they will not subvert this site.

Several months ago, I told a story of stopping at a scenic view near Ardmore, Oklahoma. A Hummer limo stopped by. I said hello, and the rider said hello a couple of times nervously. Need to stress I did not have a chip on my shoulder, and that forum had several previous stories hybrid drivers pumping gas getting guilty or angry looks from others with gas-guzzlers.

About 3-4 members went after me like a pack of wolfs demanding "evidence" and asserting "they knew" I provoked the Hummer driver. (explain to me their "knowledge" :rolleyes: ). If they were honest they would have simply said they did not believe the story. Then they could inquistion about a dozen similar stories. Sad thing is 1-2 years earlier, the good members would have stood up to the gas-guzzler lovers and suggested they were at the wrong site.

I participate in Gasbuddies.com reporting prices. And there are some blatant hybrid bashers there.

There are some that are just ignorant (claim we have to plug-in, that they batteries contain acid and will kill us) other are just bashing to bash. They won't listen that some people, with a bit of common sense can a) get great MPG on a hybrid and b) don't have to go 25 mph on the expressway.

I love my hybrids.

I have two regular sites I visit: this one and gassavers.org. (http://www.gassavers.org) I don't go outside the realm of fuel saving forums because people are ready to cut back when they decide to -- can't forced upon them.

People also keep forgetting that Hybrids have low emissions, which is important -- you can't put a dollar value on that.

RH77

Wouldn't you love for these people to be interviewed in person?

My guess is it would be absurdly obvious they don't fit in a site promoting fuel economy, hybrids, or being green.

whatever I would say, I try to help here and there, but if you just take it with a grain of salt its really your loss. I mean c'mon man would you rather put your money towards something yummy for yourself (drugs, food, or comfort)? or towards gas? its really your call...

one thing for sure, when you put your money towards gas, your killing the planet way faster than whatever else you pool your money into on a daily basis.

Its just not about the savings anymore... political reasons arises if we are going to fight back agaist these hungry money gas companies!

Dangerous? Ride with me and I'll gladly point out what dangerous is, the lane changers that try to beat car by car, so he can be number uno at the red light. The guy going faster (say 50 in a 30 zone) than what the street was designed for, having a high risk of losing control and increasing braking distances if an emergency were to occur. Accidents happen because of collision, and for collison to happen there needs to be SPEED, one thing for sure speeding is not in my hypermiling books so don't expect me to ever rear end or T bone a person because I'll garenntee with my driving style it ain't ever happening.

As for high tire pressure, I bet you can ride with me and wouldn't believe the tires had 60 PSI in them, I've never had a complaint from my friends who are used to 30 psi in their cars/trucks.

Everyone has heard Edmund Burke's quote: "All it takes for evil to succeed is for the good to do nothing" (words to that effect)

When the people brick described appear, in a civil manner challenge them. It seems that good many people just don't want to confront them and make their opinion seem valid because it's not challenged. Mention your results and friend's you know - ask them questions. I'm not suggesting harassment, but to get them to reveal themselves. Either they will open up and eventually behave (we hope) or they reveal their bad intentions quicker.

Many of these people act like trollers. Some may even be a troller. Your typical troller will not introduce themselves, put as little in their profile as possible so it's easier to change their story to keep a flame-bait alive. They tend to pick controversial topics - often political or issues known to divide members. The tend not to discuss their driving or what they drive. They are essentially a stranger that shoves themselves into a party with the intent to ruin it. As I've asserted in the past, this is a civility and freedom of association issue, not a free speech issue.

Trollers and their kindred thrive on being anynomous. Inquiring as to their intent, their vehicles, etc. spoils their game.

I've heard the advice to ignore trollers. I don't totally agree. Problem is some trollers NEVER quit - some are nutcases. In a large forum, someone will always play into the troller's hands. This is when you hope for an admin and moderators that will deal with troublesome members if you report them. CleanMPG does and it's the best environment - staff and members get rid of the occasional malcontents.

Other forums all too often allow some of these unpleasant personalities to bring that forum down. If that forum's theme is saving fuel or being green, you need to determine if visiting there is worthwhile. Let's say the site's name is www.lets-save-lots-of-gas.com (http://www.lets-save-lots-of-gas.com) and you have lots of gearheads and others that think 15mpg is hypermiling. :rolleyes: If there are many members and staff that will get the forum back on it's mission, staying there could be worth it. If the staff or the members tolerates gas guzzlering members - I'd say leave the fraud. If the site dries up - they get what they deserve by running off the good members. After all, that too is free expression. :p