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View Full Version : Lutz: Hydrogen cars will re-establish GM.


Chuck
09-15-2006, 12:23 PM
GM: Hydrogen cars will re-establish company (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14848423/)

AP - Sept 15, 2006

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/501/Chevrolet_Sequel_Concept.jpg
GM Sequel fuel cell concept vehicle

CAMP PENDLETON, Calif. - Hydrogen fuel cell-powered vehicles could hit showrooms as early as 2011 and the technology will revitalize General Motors, GM Vice Chairman Bob Lutz said as he delivered a hydrogen concept car to be test driven by Camp Pendleton Marines over the next few months.

Calling the effort a "moon shot," Lutz said it is vital the world's largest automaker commits to the new technology, so it can win back its reputation as an innovator and design leader.

"This is to re-establish our technological credentials with the American public and the American media," Lutz said Thursday. "And it has a huge re-moralizing effect in the company as our people see how serious we are."

Up to $9 billion has been freed up as a result of General Motors' recent restructuring, Lutz said. The company now has more money to invest in hydrogen fuel cell-powered cars, which will form an important part of the auto giant's long-term economic recovery plan.

The company, which is suffering from declining U.S. market share at the hands of its Asian competitors, lost $8.6 billion in 2005 amid high healthcare, pension, labor and materials costs.

"We are going to make General Motors what it was in the '50s and '60s again," Lutz said.

Vow not to repeat hybrid mistake
Lutz acknowledged GM lost a technological edge to Toyota by failing to recognize the potential of gasoline-hybrid technology, and promised that won't happen again with hydrogen cars. He did not specify how much cash would be channeled toward production of the new cars or how many vehicles would be produced. But a company said GM has so far spent $1 billion on the technology and will spend a similar amount by 2010.

Virtually every automaker is conducting tests of hydrogen-powered vehicles, which have received support from a five-year, $1.2 billion hydrogen initiative first announced by President Bush in his 2003 State of the Union address.

German automaker BMW said Tuesday it will introduce the world's first hydrogen-powered car (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14798876/) that comes off a factory line.

The pollution-free technology holds the potential of zero emissions and a sustainable source of energy produced when hydrogen and oxygen are mixed. Carbon emissions are reduced to zero, provided the energy used to produce hydrogen comes from renewable sources.

Military niche, China market
Lt. Col. Jay Malik said the Marine Corps is looking at alternative fuels for environmental reasons, and because hydrogen-powered cars could simplify logistical planning on the battlefield, where the distribution of gasoline can be challenging.

Many obstacles exist before fuel-cell cars hit showrooms, including the still high cost of using hydrogen and a lack of fueling stations. California leads the nation in installing hydrogen fueling stations, Lutz said, currently with 31 around the state.

But even if energy companies fail to boost hydrogen production, Lutz said GM would still have a potentially large international market share.

"Whether or not we get a hydrogen infrastructure, it doesn't matter, because China will be the first hydrogen economy," he said.

Chuck
09-15-2006, 12:35 PM
"We are going to make General Motors what it was in the '50s and '60s again," Lutz said. I hope you're right, but the last three decades have me concerned...

"Whether or not we get a hydrogen infrastructure, it doesn't matter, because China will be the first hydrogen economy," he said.I'm glad you're bullish on this, but I bet you have political clout to get an American hydrogen infrastructure started...

AshenGrey
09-15-2006, 03:04 PM
The last I heard, FCVs cost between $500,000-$1,000,000 each. The fuel cell stacks wear out every 30,000 miles and cost almost $100,000 to replace.
Hydrogen is an explosive, leaky, incredibly voluminous gas that is hard to produce in mass quantity and will not store for long periods of time. Hydrogen is also a very reactive gas that very easily combines with other elements (and thus ceases to be a gas).

How does GM plan on making $24,000 FCV family sedan that has a 6-10 year life expectancy. Bob Lutz is dreaming, and we get to pay for the corporate welfare for that dream.

I think it would be a heck of a lot better if GM would get back into the EV business. That's known, proven, safe technology -- and everyone has a 110v outlet at home!

Chuck
09-15-2006, 03:15 PM
I'll wait and see if GM is truly serious on hydrogen technology.

Actually, hydrogen is safer but harder to store. In a crash, gasoline will cling to the vehicle and burn more (think of that 10-yr old Vietnamize girl (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phan_Th%E1%BB%8B_Kim_Ph%C3%BAc) burned by a napalm bomb :eek: ) Hydrogen rises quickly, which kept the death toll from The Hindenburg explosion lower. The evaporation also makes storage a problem - in a conventional gas tank - it's gone in hours. :( That means store compressed in cylinders or something....

Agreed, hydrogen technology has a number of hurdles to clear....

hobbit
09-15-2006, 03:41 PM
I don't know a whole lot about hydrogen processing or FCs, but
it is sounding to me like there are *more* bugs to be worked out
for using hydrogen onboard a *vehicle*, whereas stationary fuel
cell installations with climate-control seem like a much more
reachable reality today. As in, small localized generation
plants, from which you can charge your EV and thus re-store the
energy in something more roadworthy.
.
_H*

Chuck
09-20-2006, 08:31 AM
Read another article on the Sequel. Nobody is giving even the vaguest idea of how much they might try to sell it for in 2011. Currently it goes about 300 miles on a tankful of hydrogen. It also takes 30 seconds to warm-up - that could be fixed with a remote starter.

whitevette
09-20-2006, 01:25 PM
Hydrogen is an explosive, leaky, incredibly voluminous gas that is hard to produce in mass quantity and will not store for long periods of time.

As I sit & browse the many comments on hydrogen...with it's awkward, hazardous,tricky storage problems...I wonder how many have considered the alternative- making H2 inside the combustion chamber! H2 made as you drive! What could be safer? After all, the dangers of exploding H2 are no different than exploding gasoline!
Is this possible? I hold two US Patents which say it is ! Another patent is needed to "round out" the picture... but it's very simple (kinda like me?). -Ted Hart :D

xcel
09-20-2006, 06:02 PM
Hi Whitevette:

___BMW is releasing the 7 series as an H2 powered ICE in the very near future for public consumption via Lease only. Ford has been running straight H2 into ICE equipped automobiles for years now and their H2 powered shuttle bus’ should be ready for delivery by years end. The Ford Focus - H2 powered ICE has been shown on again/off again as described above as well.

BMW to roll out hydrogen-powered 7 Series. (http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2073)

Ford launches production of Hydrogen ICE's for delivery to customers. (http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1477)

Ford Focus Europe – Developments. (http://media.ford.com/newsroom/feature_display.cfm?release=20081)

___Good Luck

___Wayne



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