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Hi All,
I just had a new IMA battery installed in my 2000 Insight. I started having battery recals, about 1-2 per week at 50K miles. I had no check engine or IMA warning light.
I called Honda of America, customer service, and explained the situation and they said I should bring the car to the dealer for tests. I explained that the tests would be negative, because battery recals don't produce OBDII fault codes. I said I wouldn't pay for diagnostic tests and he arranged for free testing which revealed nothing. I talked to the service department and explained that some cells were out of spec/failing and it was a matter of time before an IMA light is lit or fault code would be set. I said that the car is dangerous to drive, because battery recals cause unexpected loss of accel.
He said that without observing a recal event, he wouldn't be able to install a new battery under warranty.
Considering the sporadic nature of battery recals, I proposed taking a video of the event (using my Palm). I managed to catch the last few seconds of a recal, showing the falling SOC and no assist. I showed this to the service manager and he contacted the Honda zone office and got approval for a new battery and installation on warranty. He said the video was convincing to the zone office.
I hope this info will help those who are "suffering" with battery recals.
I also initiated a NHTSA complaint about the danger of unexpected loss of accel in the Insight, due to battery recals. This is currently under investigation.

Sincerely,
Burt
bshul@aol.com

Hi Burt:

___Thank you for the story and a great outcome for you in particular! Did they replace the BCM and inverter as well? That is the std. way Honda has been doing the under the table replacements for years now.

___Just a few months ago, American Honda extended the pack warranties out on Insight’s in the desert SW and California. A few weeks after that, the entire country was covered IIRC? I would have to verify this but I know the YaHoo Honda Hybrid group has made mention of these facts on and off again over the past few months. I know of a particular 17 year old that can bring about a Recal in his Citrus beauty at will and both he and his father will be looking forward to the new pack and replacement HW under the newly increased warranty if in fact it does exist.

___Good Luck

___Wayne

This would be breaking news if the NHTSA made honda replace failing batteries under a recall :)

or at least made them replace them if people report having recals.

Whoever thought camera phones would be a diagnostic tool for vehicles. Well done!

Burt
Thanks for the story. I hope that NHTSA will find recals as unsafe as many of the people having them frequently do. The safety is particulary an issue with freeway on ramps, where loosing assist right where you need it most can make the merge extremely dangerous.
:eek: ;)

Thank you for mentioning this!

I have a 2000 5-speed Insight that had the dreaded IMA light just shy of 94,000 miles. It seems 2000 5-speed Insight are suceptable because inexperienced hybrid drivers can do more battery pack damage on a manual shift and being the first year, the software/hardware needed some tweaking. The good news is I was in a rental just nine days - much better than the 1-2 month waits I've heard. It was six months before I had my first recal on the new pack. Generally, I have to be really careless to get a recal these days.

The dealership replaced the battery pack, and the two black boxes to be certain it was fixed.

Hate to sound stupid but what is a recal?? TIA

Hate to sound stupid but what is a recal?? TIA

Maybe recal needs to go in our dictionary.

In Honda hybrids, the computer estimates when the hybrid battery pack is weak. When that threashold is reached, the battery pack is recalibrated (we say recal). The Soc (state of charge) bar takes a visible dive and "resistance is futile" - once started, all you can do is let it charge about 15 minutes (if highway speed) and lose a significant amount of power/acceleration. If you drive reasonably near the speed limit or hypermile, this does not happen often. If you tend to drive 15mph over the speed limit, you will be familiar with this. :( The 5-speed Insight might be the worst to do this - the Honda CVT hybrids seem to do it less.

Burt-
Did Honda provide a replcement quote? Just curious.

Maybe recal needs to go in our dictionary.

In Honda hybrids, the computer estimates when the hybrid battery pack is weak. When that threashold is reached, the battery pack is recalibrated (we say recal). The Soc (state of charge) bar takes a visible dive and "resistance is futile" - once started, all you can do is let it charge about 15 minutes (if highway speed) and lose a significant amount of power/acceleration. If you drive reasonably near the speed limit or hypermile, this does not happen often. If you tend to drive 15mph over the speed limit, you will be familiar with this. :( The 5-speed Insight might be the worst to do this - the Honda CVT hybrids seem to do it less.


Sounds like a plan. Why not add it to the general glossary?

"Recal - Short for recalibration in Honda hybrids. The computer estimates when the State of Charge (SoC) drops below a preset threshold. If it goes under that threshold, an unstoppable trickle recharge is invoked to restore the charge to a relatively high level. At a highway cruise, it will last about 15 minutes with a very noticable loss of power and acceleration."


Let's get a review on this....

Thanks for the explanation! sk:)

Burt,

A question. Did you have the "product update" performed?

I had the product update perform after my BCM went south due to an overheat. They wouldn't replace the battery since it wasn't throwing codes. Now that I have the update done the old recal doesn't happen. Instead the car is in a CONSTANT state of charge whenever the outside temp is over 80F. It gets worse if I turn on the A/C (a must since the wife whines louder than the belts on my Metro if it doesn't get turned on). This constant charge will last almost entirely through my 46 mile commute. Sometimes it'll go to full charge when I get into the 45mph limit zone - 45mph is the limit, I do 45. Most of the trip is 60mph which is where the trouble starts.

I called HOA before and they suggested a different dealer which seems the avenue I may have to take. If that happens I will be sure to mention to the old dealer they not only my Honda business but 5 other family members that drive Hondas as well business.

Now its a matter of taking the extra long drive up to the other dealer and then crossing my fingers. For the most part, the product update seemed like a patch for deteriorating battery packs. Mine was on its deathbed and they just hooked up a feeding tube so it seems like it'll never die now.

Hi All,
I just had a new IMA battery installed in my 2000 Insight. I started having battery recals, about 1-2 per week at 50K miles. I had no check engine or IMA warning light.
I called Honda of America, customer service, and explained the situation and they said I should bring the car to the dealer for tests. I explained that the tests would be negative, because battery recals don't produce OBDII fault codes. I said I wouldn't pay for diagnostic tests and he arranged for free testing which revealed nothing. I talked to the service department and explained that some cells were out of spec/failing and it was a matter of time before an IMA light is lit or fault code would be set. I said that the car is dangerous to drive, because battery recals cause unexpected loss of accel.
He said that without observing a recal event, he wouldn't be able to install a new battery under warranty.
Considering the sporadic nature of battery recals, I proposed taking a video of the event (using my Palm). I managed to catch the last few seconds of a recal, showing the falling SOC and no assist. I showed this to the service manager and he contacted the Honda zone office and got approval for a new battery and installation on warranty. He said the video was convincing to the zone office.
I hope this info will help those who are "suffering" with battery recals.
I also initiated a NHTSA complaint about the danger of unexpected loss of accel in the Insight, due to battery recals. This is currently under investigation.

Sincerely,
Burt
bshul@aol.com

Hi all,
Answering 2 questions that were asked:
I didn't get a battery replacement quote from the dealer. I did inquire a few years ago and the battery pack was $1800. I didn't do any of the recall fixs, like the BCM replacement or the IMA reprogramming. In my opinion, the battery was just degrading normally over the past 6 years.
I have been quite happy with the Insight's performance and mpg (70-75 mpg highway). I developed and installed my hot air intake mod a few months after I bought the car. I also folded the side view mirrors back and mounted small convex mirrors in the resulting pockets. I run the tires at 46 psi.
I also found a way to clean the EGR valve (causes hesitaion when dirty) without removing it. I just hook up the 12V battery to the EGR valve connector and apply power to the valve about 10 times.This shakes off the carbon from the pintle. The pink wire identifies the positive
valve terminal. Black identifies the ground.

Burt