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Have the potential future financial impacts of FASing in a normal everyday vehicle been discussed?

During my summer commute (140 mile roundtrip twice weekly) I took back roads and had several excellent FAS points that I used frequently and significantly aided my MPG. However, I began to consider the possible repercussions of FASing and how it wears various parts of the vehicle more. The power steering and brake systems take a hit, along with the starter and ignition system.

While we save money and fuel in the short run, are we spending more to replace these essential systems in the future? Just wanted to hear everyone's thoughts. ;)

By the way, glad to see the site up and running again - what a great community. :D

johnf514,

If Honda ever makes anything like the Insight with a manual tranmission again, I think they should consider a very high gear for downhill and an alternative to FASing.

I have wondered about this....

John, Yes, depending on the vehicle FASing can in the long term cost you money in repairs.

Some cars take less wear and tear than others. Generaly though, in a manual transmission it shouldn't add that much wear and tear.

In most FAS situations you are going straight and not using your breaks. So the engine is going further turned off. And power steering and brakes aren't being used.

Since the engine is off it is actualy saving wear on it for that distance.

People used to think the oil compleately drains to the pan when you fas. But there is still a coating for quite a while afterward, so starting it isn't exactly the same as starting a car cold.

I have spent a lot of time thinking about this, and my uncertainty is part of what caused me to moderate my habits a bit. Despite wanting a hybrid, I need to make this car last!

On the one hand, Wayne's Accord is running just great AFAIK at, what, 50K miles ore more? If anybody is going to have trouble it's him, and he hasn't made a peep about anything but the battery. And he drives an auto. The brakes shouldn't be impacted (why use them at all?) and at least the manual transmission shouldn't see any negative impact at all.

I do worry about the steering gear, since I do tend to FAS around corners. I'm not worried about the rack so much as the column between the rack and the wheel, which will take more wear due to the increased driver effort. But I don't worry much, as it shouldn't be hard to have a look at the U-joints from time to time. If failure is even possible, there ought to be plenty of warning signs (clicking, sticking, and the like.)

I worry about the starter, but again not too much because a) it's not too tough or expensive to replace and b) I use it to re-start less than half the time.

What I worry about the most is my clutch. When I really get into it, I like to bump-start a lot. Once you're good at it, it's just really quick and easy to do while you are still moving. Simpler than using the starter IMO. Problem is, I have no idea how much wear that puts on the friction material. Every time, you drag the engine from a dead stop through that disc. But then again what happens during a standing start? The clutch is designed for that, when you use it to move the entire mass of the car. My guess is that a skilled driver bump-starting causes more wear than if he didn't, but less wear than a mediocre driver just driving.

A related question: how tough is it for a reasonably skilled shade-tree mechanic to replace a clutch on something like a Civic or an Accord? If it isn't that hard, (let's say a day's work using ordinary hand tools), that takes some of my concern away. To me, there's a big difference between $250 or less for parts and $800 for parts + labor!

The cardan joints and column between the steering wheel and rack will show plenty of warning before fatigue failure. Lash will increase substantially as the parts wear and will be very noticeable at the steering wheel.

At this point I'm willing to assume the costs of any premature wear items. I feel the greatly reduced CO2 emmisions and the resultant positive impact on climate change far outweigh the risk of additional costs from hypermiling.

Have the potential future financial impacts of FASing in a normal everyday vehicle been discussed?

During my summer commute (140 mile roundtrip twice weekly) I took back roads and had several excellent FAS points that I used frequently and significantly aided my MPG. However, I began to consider the possible repercussions of FASing and how it wears various parts of the vehicle more. The power steering and brake systems take a hit, along with the starter and ignition system.

While we save money and fuel in the short run, are we spending more to replace these essential systems in the future? Just wanted to hear everyone's thoughts. ;)

By the way, glad to see the site up and running again - what a great community. :D

John

Over all FAS'ing done right should not impact the over all life of a car. No matter the config of the car.

Lets start with tranny's. Take Honda Accords. I would not FAS a V6, 5AT Accord. They are known to have tranny problems. This would include other V6 Homdas like the Oddy and others. Point is a little research and one can find out very quick if there AT car is known for transmission issues.

The same would apply to MT transmissions. One that comes to mind is some 90's model GM's. GM went thru a phase of putting way to small clutch pressure plates and disc's into some of the 5 and 6 MT units. These can be found in Camaros to pickups. The clutchs smoked very easy in normal driving. Again,,, a little research can show the ones to aviod. Or atleast know that a upgrade is in order.

As for steering colums, racks and pumps. Alot more damage is done to power steering pumps from holding the steering wheel at full lock than a FAS would ever do. Steering columes over all are very over built. I havent seen a bad one in years. Of those Ive seen. Its been caused by either accident damage or a sever beating from rual roads or folks that refuse to have there front wheels balanced. The constant running shock from out of balanced wheels and tires, or the wash board effect of some gravel roads beat columes to death. Along with everything else. Steering racks dont seem to suffer from FAS much either. Of note some Fords dont do well on a FAS if your turning the wheel. Take my 2000 Ranger. If I make a turn while FASing it will blow power steering fluid out the vent hole of the power steering resivor. This is caused by the rack not having a low psi bypass. Couple that with the fact Fords are known for awful bad power steering pumps. I wont FAS and corner/turn a Ford.

Starters and ingnition switchs. If you have to key start alot you can bet the ingnition switch is going to take a beating. Ignition switchs generaly dont cost much over all. Im sure some cost a whole lot more than they are worth. Again some reseach would let somebody know if the wear was worth the over all cost of replacement. Starters are intresting. In the old days of manuel chokes or the so called auto chokes back when we pushed the throttle to the floor to set the choke, starters took much more of a beating than they do today. Over all fuel injected engines start much faster than carb'ed ones. engines. I dont see starters as a issue.

I will keep FASing our cars within there limits and mine.

psy :)

Great replies everyone; thank you for your thoughts. :)

Of note some Fords dont do well on a FAS if your turning the wheel. Take my 2000 Ranger. If I make a turn while FASing it will blow power steering fluid out the vent hole of the power steering resivor. This is caused by the rack not having a low psi bypass. Couple that with the fact Fords are known for awful bad power steering pumps. I wont FAS and corner/turn a Ford.

I noted a similar problem when checking the oil on my Taurus a month ago. The PS fluid was incredibly low, and there was some splash-over of it in the engine bay. Nothing too serious, but enough to make me reconsider an FAS through a corner.

Has anyone experienced any repair issues possibly due to FASing or other hypermiling techniques?

Hi Johnf514:

___The Accord w/ Auto is just about to turn over 60,000 and has > 10,000 FAS’s to her name. Just a new 12V so far … Knock on wood ;)

___The FE and emissions speak for themselves.

___Good Luck

___Wayne

60K miles in under 2 years?! No wonder you hypermile so much!