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View Full Version : The Hype of Hybrids.


xcel
09-11-2006, 04:00 PM
With rising gas prices and concern for a greener environment, consumers putting hybrid vehicles on the road has increased to roughly half a million. (http://www.fastcompany.com/articles/2006/09/hybrids.html?partner=rss)

Leslie Taylor - Fast Company - Sept. 11, 2006

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/501/2007_Toyota_Highlander_Hybrid.jpg
2007 Toyota Highlander Hybird – Just one answer.

Between Al Gore's movie, an Inconvenient Truth, and the inconvenient truth that gas costs an average of $2.85 a gallon, average consumers are joining the ranks of a long list of celebrities, including The Huffington Post's Arianna Huffington and TV personalities Bill Maher and Ellen DeGeneres, in switching to a hybrid vehicle, powered by a combination of an electric motor and a gasoline-fueled engine. And Toyota's plan to sell one million hybrids a year by early next decade suggests hybrids are on their way to mainstream status.

In 2005, Toyota increased production of its Prius hybrid to keep up with the demand for the model, and the automakers' 2007 Camry Hybrid sold 4,268 units in June. In comparison, the non-hybrid Hyundai Sonata sedan - one of the top 20 best-selling cars in the U.S. - sold 11,739 units. Though the numbers are coming closer to one another and hybrid sales have generally doubled every year since 2000, hybrids represented only 1.2% of total vehicles sold in 2005.

Sure, hybrids are gaining in popularity, but when it comes to all the promises - ubiquity of energy-efficient vehicles, lower costs over time, and environmental-friendliness - are hybrids living up to their hype?

Hybrids for All

Despite hybrids' promise of improved gas mileage and lower emissions, hybrids are likely to constitute only a modest portion of all vehicle sales for the foreseeable future, according to a January report from J.D. Power and Associates. Analysts anticipate that by 2012, hybrid sales volume will have grown from 212,000 in 2005 to 780,000 - but hybrids will still only represent 4.2% of the overall market.
One explanation for the hybrid's lag behind non-hybrid vehicles is automakers' inability to keep up with the demand. Toyota, the top-seller of hybrids, recently had a waiting list of up to six months for its Prius model. Meanwhile, Honda continues to evaluate its manufacturing capacity. "We are making all we can,” said Sage Marie, a spokesman for Honda. "We continue to adjust manufacturing targets based on demand. Right now the limiting factor is manufacturing capacity.”

Savings for Whom?

Another reason that hybrids likely have trouble gaining traction in the vehicle market is their cost. Hybrids typically cost $2,500 to $3,000 more than a comparable conventional vehicle.

"It's all about the economics," said Keith Crain, publisher and editor-in-chief of Automotive News. "For hybrids to compete, car manufacturers are going to have to get the costs down."

A federal tax credit, introduced as part of the Energy Policy Act of 2005, offsets some of the initial price differential. The tax credit ranges from $250 for a hybrid pickup like the Chevrolet/GMC Silverado/Sierra to $3,150 for more fuel efficient Toyota Prius. However, once a manufacturer sells 60,000 vehicles of a particular hybrid model, the credit gradually decreases over a period of 15 months until it is discontinued.

Whether hybrid owners can recoup their higher initial investment through savings at the gas pump depends on the model of hybrid they drive and how long they own the vehicle.

"When you factor in the initial investment the average consumer has to have considerably higher mileage to make it payoff. However, if they keep it long enough and they drive it many miles they will in fact save considerably," said Crain.

"Tax credits and absolute financial costs are not the primary issue for people buying a Toyota hybrid," said Cindy Knight, environmental communications administrator at Toyota. "People buying hybrids are concerned about the environment."

Saving the Earth?

But is a hybrid the best personal vehicle choice to demonstrate concern for the environment?

With good design, hybrids can reduce smog pollution by 90 percent or more compared with conventional vehicles, according to The Union of Concerned Scientists. However, not all hybrid vehicle models are equally green.

Burning less fuel releases fewer toxic emissions and there is no doubt that certain hybrid models get substantially better gas mileage than comparable conventional vehicles. The 2006 Toyota Prius gets 60/51 mpg city/highway, which is much better than the 34/40 of the 2007 model of the Yaris, Toyota's smallest compact car. The 2006 Honda Accord Hybrid, on the other hand, gets 25/34 mpg city/highway - virtually identical to the 26/34 of the conventional Accord coupe.

While some critics might consider hybrid SUVs the ultimate oxymoron, a vehicle like the Toyota Highlander hybrid or Ford Escape, puts hybrid technology in the hands of people who might not otherwise choose to drive a hybrid. Hybrid SUVs enable people to slightly mitigate their choice to drive a larger car.

"We realized that if we're going to make a difference in terms of dependence on foreign oil and reducing emissions we would have to take our hybrid synergy drive mainstream," said Toyota's Knight. "We want to broaden hybrids' appeal beyond the early adopter or tech fan. We want to appeal to soccer moms and dads."

"I think the trend of putting hybrid engines in large vehicles makes sense. It's important for us to explore options for all fuels and all vehicle sizes," said Automotive News' Keith Crain.

However, Honda has no plans to develop a hybrid SUV. "We've found that hybrid technology is most efficient in small vehicles," said Honda spokesman Sage Marie. "The gains in fuel efficiency are most significant in small vehicle applications."

Not the Only Green Ride

So will hybrids be the cars of the future?

"Anyone who says hybrids are the singular ultimate answer is nuts," said Crain.

Gas-electric hybrids are only one among many alternative vehicle designs. Vehicles have been developed that run on various combinations of fuel systems. Biodiesel, ethanol, hydrogen - even recycled frying grease - all have potential as fuels.

In 2003, Bush launched a $1.2 billion initiative to help automakers develop a hydrogen-fueled vehicle. Yet, Paul Erickson, a professor of Mechanical and Aeronautical Engineering at UC Davis who studies hydrogen production and utilization warns affordable hydrogen fuel cell technology is still decades away.

"There's no one silver bullet in terms of green technology," said Marie. "We're continuing to substantially invest in research of other green vehicle options."

"Right now we're in the transition period," said Crain. "In the future, we're going to see hybrids, electrics, diesels, methanol-powered and all sorts of multi-fuel systems for automobiles. There's not a single solution."

tigerhonaker
09-11-2006, 06:30 PM
Interesting reading. I don't really think anyone ever thought that Hybrids were the {Final-Solution} to the Fuel Prices. However they at least offer more than there non-hybrid counter parts as far as FE. As the article point out with the Fed. Tax Credit you really are not paying more to purchase the Hybrid. So why not is what I say.

Terry (tiger)

laurieaw
09-11-2006, 08:53 PM
tell that to the guy on gh who is trading in his HCH II. seems he bought it when he was commuting over 100 miles a day, and now he has a new job and since is company is going to foot the bill for his car, he's going back to something more fun.....like a 4x4 supercab pickup, or he even mentioned a diesel excursion.

answering that post was the closest i have ever come to flaming someone big time.......

tigerhonaker
09-11-2006, 09:13 PM
tell that to the guy on gh who is trading in his HCH II. seems he bought it when he was commuting over 100 miles a day, and now he has a new job and since is company is going to foot the bill for his car, he's going back to something more fun.....like a 4x4 supercab pickup, or he even mentioned a diesel excursion.

answering that post was the closest i have ever come to flaming someone big time.......

Now Laurie you and I both know that when it is not the persons money all of a sudden the FE is just not all that "Important" anymore. Hey, really no different than someone else is buying lunch or that person is paying for their lunch. Now what do they order when it is their money. Interesting is it not how things work when it is the other persons money. Say you don't think that is why the Big Boys in Washington ETC. drive (OOPS) have driven I should have said the Very-Large-Vehicles they ride around in. Let's see who's money is it they are spending? {OURS}

Terry (tiger)

Chuck
09-12-2006, 09:26 AM
tell that to the guy on gh who is trading in his HCH II. seems he bought it when he was commuting over 100 miles a day, and now he has a new job and since is company is going to foot the bill for his car, he's going back to something more fun.....like a 4x4 supercab pickup, or he even mentioned a diesel excursion.

answering that post was the closest i have ever come to flaming someone big time.......

This guy you are talking about laurie "went green" but forgot it when his new employer offered to pay for his gas - was never serious. This is why I loath the business vehicle credits that encourage people to buy H2s and Escalades....it would be poetic justice if his new company gets in a pinch and drastically cuts benefits or even layoff people based on what it's costing them.

This HCH II to 4x4 guy smacks of the "drug sex and rock and roll" guys that are too busy partying to use their ****ing mind - can't reason with someone that is out for their gratification. The other infuriating thing is at that forum, a few people will defend his switchover and even get incensed if laurie or myself question his move. It was supposed to by a hybrid site - wasn't it? ;)

xcel
09-12-2006, 05:43 PM
Hi Laurie:

___Your story detests me yet here I am with a perfectly good Accord that replaced a perfectly good Insight? Sorry for being the hypocrite :(

___I think employers should go to a $0.40/mile payout and let him sit in the mess he made. There is not a new car on the planet that can touch $0.40/mile other then a stripped down Yaris that I know of. It will cost him dearly if they pay per mile but if it’s a CC for fuel … :(

___Good Luck

___Wayne

laurieaw
09-12-2006, 08:22 PM
Hi Laurie:

___Your story detests me yet here I am with a perfectly good Accord that replaced a perfectly good Insight? Sorry for being the hypocrite :(

___I think employers should go to a $0.40/mile payout and let him sit in the mess he made. There is not a new car on the planet that can touch $0.40/mile other then a stripped down Yaris that I know of. It will cost him dearly if they pay per mile but if it’s a CC for fuel … :(

___Good Luck

___Wayne


wayne, i am not quite sure what you are telling me........:confused:

Chuck
09-12-2006, 09:35 PM
I don't think that GH thread was about an HCH II to an Accord trade-in, but HCH II to a LOT LARGER (this is clear although he is not specific...). It sounds like he is considering wheels he would not ever consider if it was solely out of his pocket and his commute was even a moderate distance, much less a long commute.

I responded at GH this is why I oppose the business vehicle tax breaks - this is how it's abused.

I can understand this guy getting something a little bigger, but that's not the case.

If my boss treats me to lunch, I might get something moderately priced, but not the big steak...just me...



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