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Hi All:

___After hearing both Harry’s and John’s testimonials about the Aerostitch bike outerwear in the BMW’s new StreetGuard3 riding suit (cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20024) thread, I decided to write-up a proposal for an Aerostuitch suit for my upcoming review ride in LA next month.

___The owner, Andy Goldfine wrote back today and offered me the following:

Thank you also for your offer to evaluate an Aerostich Darien suit during your XR650L evaluation and trip to Los Angeles. I know the Darien gear will meet your requirements.

Please send me your sizes, color preferences, and shipping address. You can find the pricing and other information for the jacket here, at Aerostitch Darien (http://www.aerostich.com/product.php?productid=16376&cat=250&page=1). It ranges from $397 to 647, depending on the liner type, or if no liner is ordered...
___It sounds like the perfect gear for a review and if I am reading it correctly, I can return it after I have that review knocked out?

___John or Harry, since I have the Milan Hybrid for a few days starting Monday morning, I might take a drive up to Minneapolis to do a write-up on the Aerostitch company if Andy offers such a thing?

___A few other questions maybe you two or someone familiar with the Aerostitch gear could answer... I think I will ask for just the base jacket without liner but is that a good idea? Do the secondary jacket liners attach to the jacket like a ski jackets inner coat/liner or is it just a secondary coat underneath?

___My Hein Gericke leather jacket is cold as hell when riding in any temps below 60 degrees even with the small liner attached so I ride with a sweatshirt, lightweight liner and jacket when in those conditions. Some of its discomfort has to do with its short collar which the Aerostitch appears to have solved? I have been in temps down to 30 degrees F and was literally frozen to the bike during my dumber younger days ;)

___Also, what do either of you know about the optional back pads (tank.aerostich.com/pdf/PadsManual.pdf)? Are they a hard plastic that still allows comfort or foam pads?

Aerostitch Darien Bike Jacket including some details

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/523/Darien_Front.jpghttp://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/523/Darien_Front_Details.jpg

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/523/Darien_Rear.jpg

___Thanks in advance.

___Wayne

So does this mean you have to arrange to high-side off the bike
and see how far you slide before the onset of road-rash?
.
_H*

That's the only way to get a good durability test! :D I could have used one of those about 30 years ago. I was practicing riding wheelies shifting gears. I hit 5th gear on a 250 Elsinore and I proceeded to go sliding down the asphalt drag strip over 50 mph. I had a billfold in my pocket that saved my posterior, but my forearms and top of my thumb and first finger on my left hand didn't fare so well. The back of my helmet was gouged too. I had the most important piece of safety gear, but riding apparel would have saved me great pain.

Hi Al:

___Some interesting test criteria we could devise for that one ;)

Aerostitch Darien Pants -- abrasion information

Your A.D.1 pants are not designed for high speed abrasion protection, or to be used as a substitute for heavy leather pants. However, they will provide significant abrasion protection when used properly. A.D.1 pants are made from Cordura Nylon and a Gore Tex® laminate. This 600 Denier Cordura GorTex fabric is tough, and outperforms denim, ordinary synthetics, and fashion weight leather. Low speed crashes will usually only scuff the fabric, but as speeds exceed 30–40 MPH, repairs may be required. Your pants should be returned to us for examination after an impact or abrasion.

Cordura fabric is very strong, but it differs from leather in several important ways. A great deal of heat is generated by the friction of a long slide, so you should wear regular pants underneath to provide thermal insulation between the A.D.1 pants and your skin. If the fabric does become hot enough, our research indicates there is a theoretical possibility that it may melt or cause burns. In actual use, no burns have occurred. Cordura is also more “slippery” than leather, so you may slide slightly farther in a crash, but roll and tumble less. The optional hip pads increase the pants’ crash protection.

___Good Luck

___Wayne

Hi All:

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/523/Darien_Hi-Viz.jpgI have an Aerostitch jacket and pants with some armor and convenience options on the way...

Hi viz Darien Jacket, size 46
Light weight Darien liner size 46
Optional regular back pad

Black Darien pant, size 36Long
Optional narrow map pocket for pant leg.
Optional Pre-curved hip pads.

Some notes: A 250 mile test is a very minimal distance for a full experience with this garment.

This gear is pretty stiff and unwieldy until it breaks in and has been used for a while. Just like new unwashed denim jeans. New Aerostich gear seems to beak in at about 3,000 miles and it's getting really 'good' after about 25,000.

Although I will not pile on the miles next month, I am very interested in the armor additions and the comfort of wearing it with this very HQ and featured outerwear.

And of course Hi-Viz is bright yellow and not a preferred color for looks, its intended safety function is enhanced 3-fold over a std. Blue, Red, Black or Gray Jacket.

Good Luck

Wayne

OOPS! I'm very very sorry, somehow I missed the original post.

To try to answer your questions (belatedly):

The Darien liner zips into the jacket so you put it on as one unit. The reason I got the Darien jacket is that it is cut longer than the jacket on their original 2-piece suit. When I zipped off the pants from my 2-piece suit, left them at home, and wore just the top of the suit, I'd sometimes get chilled.

The pants are a bit bulky with the pads in them, so it can be a problem to bring the pants along if you're not wearing them.

I think the Darien pants will zip to the jacket??

Yes Aerostich garments are a bit stiff to begin with but after a while are far more comfortable than leather (which I used for many years). In chilly weather the suit is unbelievably cosy. Added advantage it that you can wear "normal" clothes underneath, remove the Aerostich gear quickly, and then go to a meeting, restaurant, or whatever.

In hot weather, you can zip out the liner. In REALLY hot weather you can unzip the wrist zippers and let the sleeve openings scoop fresh air through the jacket.

The collars are lined with corduroy so they won't scratch your neck when you're doing head checks for traffic. They can be worn turned up or turned down, but when I turn mine down they don't stay down (for me). So I just unzip a bit in hot weather.

The back pad attached to velcro patches sewn to the inside of the back. Mine is one piece of a sheet of flexible hard plastic. Not sure how much protection it gives but doesn't seem like it could be a minus.

I've never crashed so I have no data on crashworthiness of either the 2-piece suit or the Darien jacket, sorry!!

Blue jeans alone are essentially worthless in a crash, they shred instantly on asphalt. I read that shredded denim can irritate a wound and slow its healing. Kevlar jeans didn't sound like a great idea due to melting concerns. Cordura over denim seems like a good combination. OTOH, wearing cordura pants in very hot weather can seriously overheat the rider. So it's a tradeoff. I wear just jeans but never imagine they will provide any protection if I go down.

As far as getting cold on a bike, it's a complicated equation of what temp, how fast, how long, how much protection on the bike (fairing or bare bike, how well the fairing is shaped), what humidity (humid air cools you slightly faster than dry), sun/no sun/night, whether you are tired or not. And clothing. Helmet insulates your head, and a balaclava or helmet "sealer" helps reduce heat loss through your neck. Polypro long underwear, sweater, jacket liner all help to keep your core warm so it can heat the extremities. Electric heat is a HUGE help, plus it avoids bulk which interferes with riding. It also helps to keep your gear indoors so you're not getting chilled putting on a cold helmet and clothes.

I've ridden the VFR (well-shaped fairing) at 70-80mph (sorry!!) for about an hour in 25 degree weather with electric vest/chaps/gloves under an Aerostich suit no problem.

But you have to consider the risks of riding at temps much below freezing. Prolonged cold slows brain function: hypothermia can sneak up on you. And any wet patches on the pavement will be ice, which is a much bigger problem for a motorcycle than for a car. Not to mention sand laid down by the DOT. So I tended not to ride at temps below freezing, and waited after snowy weather until rains wash away the sand. Certainly people DO ride in extremely cold conditions.

Aerostich has always been an amazingly helpful consumer-oriented company, so a report on their operation would be fascinating.

Hope this is useful info.

Hi John:

___Would you be available on the 8th or 9th of April while we are in NY so I can compare the Aerostitch Darien and Darien pants I have coming in with what you have as far as ease of donning and doffing due to age? Andy mentioned that these things really wake up after about 2,500 miles and are as comfortable as jeans and a jean jacket after 30,000.

___Also, what kind of gloves do you and Harry recommend?

___I have requested a very inexpensive HJC CL15Helmet (both DOT AND SNELL rated) compared to my DOT rated Bell. Hopefully that request will work out as well?

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/2/HJC_CL15_in_Red.jpg

___Good Luck

___Wayne

Wayne:

Having had a similar suit (Yamaha-branded, same fabric but winter weight for snowmobiling) with full armor back about 7-8 years, I can confirm that the material gets significantly more flexible and comfortable after 100-200 hours.

Also, the forearm protection comes in very handy, I don't know about the backpad as mine had a kidney belt.

Hi John:

___Would you be available on the 8th or 9th of April while we are in NY so I can compare the Aerostitch Darien and Darien pants I have coming in with what you have as far as ease of donning and doffing due to age? Andy mentioned that these things really wake up after about 2,500 miles and are as comfortable as jeans and a jean jacket after 30,000.

___Also, what kind of gloves do you and Harry recommend?

___I have requested a very inexpensive HJC CL15Helmet (both DOT AND SNELL rated) compared to my DOT rated Bell. Hopefully that request will work out as well?

___Good Luck

___Wayne

Phooey!! I'll be working in Boston weekdays all of April and half of May, so I won't be in the NYC area April 8-9. My suit is about 10 years old so it is thoroughly broken in, Darien jacket is about 5 years old. Mine got comfy rather quickly.

My only complaint is too many pockets, I always worry I'll forget where I put something so I don't use them. However the wrist pockets are extremely convenient for tolls, earplugs, and bike keys.

Gloves:

For cold weather, I like Widder electric gloves:
http://www.widder.com/html/Product/LectricG/index.htm

You can just wear them as gloves when it's not that cold, then plug them in when it gets colder. Probably not much protection in a crash so keep that in mind!

For warmer weather, I have Held gauntlets, style has been discontinued but something like these:
http://www.heldusa.com/sport.html

I like a slightly tight fit because it gives your hands a bit of support, and because they stretch with age. I think their gloves are still hand made so they vary a bit pair-to-pair. Expensive but really worth it if you ride all day. Also, ensuring continued use of my hands is important to me. Bright colors are good because hand signals draw more attention in traffic (however giving someone the finger while you are on a motorcycle is not advisable!).

Helmets:
I settled on Shoei because they fit me, are well made, have good ventilation (for rainy or cold weather fogging and for cooling in hot weather), and the shields fit tightly when closed (no screaming noises from wind leaks). And don't leak in the rain (drips on your nose and glasses can get old very quickly).

Most important is good fit to your head, because a helmet that fits your head shape poorly can cause headaches after a few hours. Which can be a serious distraction and therefore a hazard. Seems like they're all made to slightly different head shapes. Unfortunately it's a matter of trial and error.

There has been a lot of discussion about the Snell and DOT ratings. They're testing protocols (sort of like the EPA MPG ratings!). The Snell rating was supposedly biased towards higher speed crashes of racing. Shoei are usually both I think.

Paying several hundred dollars for a helmet seems like a lot until you think "how much is my head worth to me?".

Hi John:

___Thanks for the input!

___To bad we cannot get together while we are in NY early next month as it would have been great to meet you in person first and to compare the aged and factory fresh suits first hand.

___About the inexpensive helmet choice. What first made me consider an inexpensive HJC was the number of owners that use them. HJC is by far the number one seller of helmets worldwide. Number two was the dual certifications. Many HJC’s have only DOT but the inexpensive CJ15 includes both the SNELL 2005 and DOT certs matching any number of helmets at two to five times the price. Finally, I read some complaints about the very expensive Arai lineup and the incorporated shield flip and hold mechanisms. It weighs a few ounces more than some and less than others but feels balanced and fits well in the shop.

___I believe the “how much is my head worth to me?" is not being used as a marketing and profit ploy more than protection today given the dual certs of this $129.95 helmet. My original Arai did its job when I was taken out on the street almost 20-years ago and I suspect my Bell DOT and today’s latest Duel cert helmets will perform even better if heaven forbid any of us would ever actually need their protection.

___I will give Held a call on the gloves as the Thrux looks like it matches my needs well. I currently use a set of leather palm reinforced, all-leather lightweight work gloves although they are meant for hand protection at work and not specifically for bikes. Do you pull the gauntlets under your Aerostitch or is there enough space to be pulled over the top?

___Good Luck

___Wayne

Sorry our paths will not cross in NYC!

I was unclear about helmet cost. I have been buying low-to-middle-of-the-line Shoei helmets mainly because as mentioned I know they fit my head very well. Testing is tough: most helmets feel great for a few minutes; the discomfort appears only after an hour or two of riding, which means buying the helmet. So I stick to a brand I know works for me. I don't buy top-of-the-line Shoei because a lot of the extra cost is graphics (signature editions in the same patterns used by various sponsored roadracers) or super light weight. I get plain monocolor: red to match my bike and for visibility, otherwise I'd probably get another bright color or white. The crushable linings age (they're a sort of styrofoam I believe) so it's good to replace helmets every 5 years (manufacture date usually on a tag inside or stamped on the chinstrap).

What I meant is that I can rationalize up to a few hundred dollars for a helmet because it's protecting my head. And because the value is spread out over 5 years or so. But I don't know of any data that a more expensive dual-cert helmet protects any better than a less expensive dual-cert or even just DOT.

As for gloves, it's usually less trouble to wear the gauntlets over the jacket sleeves because then you don't need to fuss with the jacket to get the gloves on or off. In hot weather, though, you can leave the wrist zippers undone, put the gauntlets inside the sleeves, and let air flow up the sleeves.

In rain, I usually wear an old set of gloves I keep for the purpose. Helps keep the newer ones from aging prematurely. For prolonged heavy rain, I think Aerostich sells waterproof overgloves. Or diesel refueling gloves sold at truck stops work well as overgloves. Water may still trickle down your sleeves into the gloves.

I missed this thread but I can give a brief review of the Aerostich.

I have the hi-viz darien jacket and black pants as described earlier. Wifey insisted that if my only mistress was going to take me away occasionally that I have a good chance of coming home with minimal damage.

The best investment ever made! After break in of about a month or two and geting familiar with using it I find several things:

I'm much more recognizable on the road. People at work instantly know it's me (could be a bad thing) and the built in reflective strips REALLY light up at night, verified by wife.

Though it's not as abraision resistant, or as uncomfortable, or as inconvenient to use daily as race leathers it offers good fall protection. Alot better than the ski jacket I used to wear!

I find I can extend the riding season significantly, getting in many more miles than before. My only restriction is when there is ice/snow on the road in the am commute.

Though not billed as waterproof, in the persistent rain of Washington State, it has been. The only wetness has been when the jacket drained on my open crotch zipper, served me right.

They are really easy to use. Just like the ad says, it slips right over your work clothes. No fuss no muss.

I think the only issue I have is that I bought mine a little large to fit over an existing electric vest I use. Doing it next time I'd get the electric liner rather than the regular liner so the jacket fits a little more snug

Still really happy with it 6 years and 38,000 miles later. No crashes, yet.