View Full Version : Florida leads in motorcycle fatalies, but increasing in rest of US
Chuck 03-01-2009, 10:26 PM http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/2/AmericanFlag.jpg Increased motorcycle deaths is a national trend (http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/accidents/article979640.ece)
http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/500/Motorcycle_Crash.jpgMichael Kruse - St Petersburg Times, Feb 27. 2009
Motorcycles are a good thing, but the driving responsibility is great. Liquor results in the most bike deaths, but so does inexperience and recklessness (often related to liquor). Lack of defensive driving at intersections and negotating curves kill many. -- Ed
Juan Andino-Casillas died earlier this week in Tampa when he crashed his Suzuki motorcycle into a Toyota that turned into his lane. He was 35.
Jerry Williamson died earlier this month in St. Pete Beach when he crashed his Harley-Davidson motorcycle into a Cadillac that turned into his lane. He was 42.
Benjamin Mower died last month in Zephyrhills when he crashed his Suzuki motorcycle into an Isuzu that turned into his lane. He was 19.
Sure seems like these fatal motorcycle wrecks have been happening around here a lot of late. Doesn't it?...http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/accidents/article979640.ece
SentraSE-R 03-02-2009, 12:23 AM I've got 100,000 miles riding motorcycles. 75% of motorcycle fatalities involve people who've owned their bikes less than a year. 75% of motorcycle fatalities involving cars are the car driver's fault. Defensive driving is the rule when you're riding a bike.
drummerboy2004 03-02-2009, 02:27 AM As a driver in Tampa, I can see why there are so many of these fatal accidents around here. These people drive like morons all day, everyday. I am not sure which one is to blame here... the motorcyclists on the Courtney Campbell Causeway do speeds over 100 mph all the time, and the car drivers are very quick to not care about anyone on the road but themselves. Seriously... after I graduate, I hope to never deal with these people again; at least not to this magnitude.
Matt
scissorhands 03-02-2009, 03:02 AM I ride most days....I dont like hearing this news as you can imagine.
Some days I know I'm not as mentally keyed up/half asleep, to ride in traffic, as safely as I could.
Being like a deer surrounded by wolves is the correct state to get on a motorcycle.
I had a guy turn into my lane at slow speeds last week...
I confronted his driving at the next light, and gave him an earful. He seemed like he was on some medication or hadnt slept for a while, totally disconnected from the moment.
JimboK 03-02-2009, 05:15 AM Motorcycles are a good thing, but the driving responsibility is great. Liquor results in the most bike deaths, but so does inexperience and recklessness (often related to liquor). Lack of defensive driving at intersections and negotating curves kill many. -- Ed
Then there is the trend in recent years of states relaxing or eliminating helmet laws (http://www.iihs.org/laws/HelmetUseCurrent.aspx) -- a fact the article totally overlooks. Note Florida's status on the list. Think there's a cause and effect relationship??
Earthling 03-02-2009, 07:52 AM 75% of motorcycle fatalities involving cars are the car driver's fault. Defensive driving is the rule when you're riding a bike.
It also helps to make yourself more visible. Safety studies reveal that in 2/3rds of car/motorcycle crashes, the car drivers claim they never saw the motorcyclists.
What happens all too often is that the car driver fails to perceive the motorcyclist. It's not enough for eyeballs to "see" something, the brain has to play its part and register the object.
A recent study from New Zealand illustrates this point: when motorcyclists wear white helmets instead of black ones, their accident rate drops by 24 percent! The white helmet goes a long way towards eliminating those accidents where the car driver failed to perceive the motorcyclist.
The predominance of older drivers in Florida is playing a role in this, too.
If you are a motorcyclist, wear a white helmet, run your high-beams, and choose clothing other than black. Also keep in mind that "blocked vision" plays a big role in all motor vehicle accidents, so always look out for situations where drivers' vision is blocked, because these produce a lot of accidents.
Harry
PS: I've got close to 90,000 accident-free miles on motorcycles.
msirach 03-02-2009, 08:10 AM I have many miles on the road as a motorcyclist and assisted with motorcycle safety training courses sponsored by the State of Illinois. Another item to add to the list is for motorcyclist to ride towards the left of the lane or center of the highway. Ride away from the road edge. It can blend in with the roadside scenery greatly. A motorcycle that rides towards the center with the lights on is much more visible.
This link (http://www.motorcycle-accidents.com/pages/stats.) has some decent data as far as helmet use etc.
lightfoot 03-02-2009, 08:10 AM Yes, given all the data available for years that helmets reduce injuries and fatalities in motorcycle accidents, it's depressing that we don't have nationwide helmet laws. NY has a helmet law, CT does not, so you'll see riders taking off their helmets after crossing into CT. And clipping them to their bikes. Would they unclip their car's seatbelts if they entered a state that didn't require them? Or deactivate the airbags?
As for traffic turning into your lane, it happens all the time. So anyone riding a motorcycle had better be prepared for it and have a plan for dealing with it. One of the tricks that works for me is to watch the front tires of an oncoming car at an intersection. You can usually see them starting to angle before the body of the car starts to turn. But even before then you should be covering the front brake and be going slow enough that you can change direction or stop if necessary. And putting your bike towards the left tire track of your lane where it's more visible, watching the car driver's head (if looking towards you they may or may not "see" you, but if they're looking in another direction or on the phone they probably don't see you), and possibly even popping on your high beam.
I found Motorcycle Safety Foundation courses ( http://msf-usa.org/index_new.cfm ) extremely helpful, and they're given all over the country. There's an advanced course for people who have been riding in addition to the basic course for beginners. I think you can take your riding exam for your license at the school on the school's bikes.
Motorcycle riding and hypermiling share the need to focus on the traffic situation, so they're not as different as it might seem.
lightfoot 03-02-2009, 08:18 AM It also helps to make yourself more visible. Safety studies reveal that in 2/3rds of car/motorcycle crashes, the car drivers claim they never saw the motorcyclists.
What happens all too often is that the car driver fails to perceive the motorcyclist. It's not enough for eyeballs to "see" something, the brain has to play its part and register the object.
A recent study from New Zealand illustrates this point: when motorcyclists wear white helmets instead of black ones, their accident rate drops by 24 percent! The white helmet goes a long way towards eliminating those accidents where the car driver failed to perceive the motorcyclist.
The predominance of older drivers in Florida is playing a role in this, too.
If you are a motorcyclist, wear a white helmet, run your high-beams, and choose clothing other than black. Also keep in mind that "blocked vision" plays a big role in all motor vehicle accidents, so always look out for situations where drivers' vision is blocked, because these produce a lot of accidents.
Harry
PS: I've got close to 90,000 accident-free miles on motorcycles.
I like to run the low beams and flip on the brights when needed, figuring the change may draw attention.
Yes awareness of blocked vision is very important and is taught in some safety books. Switching from one side of your lane to the other can help in some situations.
I'm not sure how many miles I have but it's a lot: 25,000-50,000 miles on each of the six motorcycles I have owned, plus mileage on other motorcycles over the years. No accidents (unless we're counting the time I forgot to put down the side stand at a gas station and the bike fell over...:().
paratwa 03-02-2009, 08:21 AM I have a modified idea of what a helmet law should be. I want it there to be an extra insurance requirement if you decide you are NOT going to wear a helmet. This would probably be expensive for the rider though. The insurance would pay for death or lifetime disablity should the rider become a vegetitable from an accident. Also choosing the "helmetless" option would be making you a mandatory organ donor. It's not fair that a helmetless rider becomes a burden on society because of their own stupidity, but I'm all about giving them the choice if they have the cash to back it up.
I say this as a rider who ALWAYS wears a helmet.
lightfoot 03-02-2009, 08:26 AM I have many miles on the road as a motorcyclist and assisted with motorcycle safety training courses sponsored by the State of Illinois. Another item to add to the list is for motorcyclist to ride towards the left of the lane or center of the highway. Ride away from the road edge. It can blend in with the roadside scenery greatly. A motorcycle that rides towards the center with the lights on is much more visible.
In the MSF courses in CT we were taught to ride in the left or right tire tracks (where the left or right car tires would go) and to avoid the center because that's where oil, antifreeze, and other slippery fluids leak. Modern cars probably leak a lot less, but still it seems like a good idea.
We were also taught to avoid the edges of the lanes. For visibility, and because car tires sweep the surface clean so there's less debris where the tires have been.
In the rain, of course the center gets slippery but it's also worth keeping in mind that painted lines are also very slick in the rain. I've felt tire slip crossing the dashed lines between lanes in the rain, so I learned to cross between the dashes. It's good practice anyway. Also worth remembering that cars dump more fluids at toll booths and at intersections due to braking and acceleration, so those areas can be real slippery in the rain.
Earthling 03-02-2009, 08:40 AM Here's an example of a safety study, a recent one:
http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roadsafety/research/rsrr/theme2/rsrr85.pdf
It discusses at length the idea of motorists not seeing motorcycles in traffic, or not responding correctly to motorcycles in traffic.
Also, many new motoryclists don't have a clue, and don't know what counter-steering is. If a motoryclist doesn't know about counter-steering, he can't swerve a motorcycle when he needs to, and he is also prone to panic when encountering a curve at speed. Half of all motorcycle accidents in rural areas are single-vehicle accidents. Add in motorcyclists who can't properly do an all-out stop, using both brakes. Many jump on the rear brake only, lock up the rear wheel and crash.
I upgraded to the bike I have now because it has power-assisted anti-lock brakes, that are also linked. If I jump on only the rear brake, the bike is smart enough to apply the front brake. I have the luxury of applying the brakes hard on wet pavement without a worry about losing control.
Harry
JimboK 03-02-2009, 09:29 AM I have a modified idea of what a helmet law should be. I want it there to be an extra insurance requirement if you decide you are NOT going to wear a helmet. This would probably be expensive for the rider though. The insurance would pay for death or lifetime disablity should the rider become a vegetitable from an accident. Also choosing the "helmetless" option would be making you a mandatory organ donor. It's not fair that a helmetless rider becomes a burden on society because of their own stupidity, but I'm all about giving them the choice if they have the cash to back it up.
I say this as a rider who ALWAYS wears a helmet.
The libertarian within me tends to agree with you. In my concept of a perfect world, you make choices and you alone accept responsibility for the consequences of those choices. If that means you die because you can't afford long-term traumatic brain-injury care, then you die. Unfortunately, the value our culture places on personal responsibility is deteriorating, and today's society would not allow that. I and others will pay for it, whether through insurance or taxes. So as long as society expects me to help pay for someone's stupidity, then I expect society to require them to wear a helmet.
Oh, and I too always wears a helmet.
lightfoot 03-02-2009, 09:52 AM Add in motorcyclists who can't properly do an all-out stop, using both brakes. Many jump on the rear brake only, lock up the rear wheel and crash.
I upgraded to the bike I have now because it has power-assisted anti-lock brakes, that are also linked. If I jump on only the rear brake, the bike is smart enough to apply the front brake. I have the luxury of applying the brakes hard on wet pavement without a worry about losing control.
Harry
+1 on that. My present bike has linked brakes but they're not anti-lock. Years ago when I had a bike with brakes that were neither linked nor antilock, I instinctively stomped on the rear brake when a bus changed lanes on top of me and I nearly fell. Ever since, I ride with my right foot on the peg but OFF the brake pedal so I can't stomp on it quickly. This is a handy trick for bikes that lack anti-lock.
And I too always wear a helmet.
paratwa 03-02-2009, 10:24 AM The libertarian within me tends to agree with you. In my concept of a perfect world, you make choices and you alone accept responsibility for the consequences of those choices. If that means you die because you can't afford long-term traumatic brain-injury care, then you die. Unfortunately, the value our culture places on personal responsibility is deteriorating, and today's society would not allow that. I and others will pay for it, whether through insurance or taxes. So as long as society expects me to help pay for someone's stupidity, then I expect society to require them to wear a helmet.
Oh, and I too always wears a helmet.
I agree with you, but the difference I believe with this idea is that the payment is made UPFRONT. Usually an idiot is able to be an idiot and cause themselves harm to the degree they become a burden on society for the rest of their lives.
Here, when they renew their license they will have to declare "I am going to be a helmetless rider", show proof of the extended insurance, and be liable to forfeiture of the bike and their riders license if they are ever pulled over with passengers who are not also helmetless insured.
Earthling 03-02-2009, 10:24 AM Regarding the helmet debate, I've never used my helmet in a crash, but I use my white full-face every single time I ride, to make myself more visible to traffic. So a helmet serves not only to protect you in a crash, but to keep you out of a crash, if you choose wisely, and choose one that helps your visibility.
Harry
PS: a study in Hawaii shows that helmetless riders have a higher accident rate than those who wear helmets. Crank that concept through your equation when choosing whether to wear a helmet or not.
Chuck 03-02-2009, 11:13 AM Made motorcycle helmets a poll question.
In my way of thinking, if helmets are optional, so should seat belts and airbags....i.e. yes bikers should always use them.
Taliesin 03-02-2009, 12:22 PM As a Libertarian I'll give an answer you may or may not expect:
Helmets should not be mandatory, however...
I will leave it up to the insurance companies to charge helmetless riders more and how much more they want to charge.
Airbags should be optional for the same reason.
Seatbelts should be mandatory for the following reason: A driver that is belted in can keep some control of the vehicle, reducing the danger to others.
Also, in a vehicle with multiple people inside, a seatbelt will keep you from slamming into other people inside (including the driver).
Seatbelts protect more than just the one person, airbags and helmets protect only the one person (unless someone tells me otherwise, then I will ask for them to be mandatory as well).
Another point though (after reading Earthling's post), bright, reflective clothing should be required for motorcycle riders due to visibility issues that can cause a danger to others (a requirement for members of the Air Force along with helmets).
Shiba3420 03-02-2009, 01:08 PM Heck no they shouldn't be mandatory...I need a new kidney....
(sorry, sick joke)
I have always said that people should be allowed to drive themselves into solid walls if they want. If people put wind in their hair above the elevated risk, I won't stand in their way.
There have certainly been enough milirary stories about people shoes lives were saved by not wearing the helment and being able to identify sounds sooner and more precisely. I'm sure there is problably 10x "hey my helment took a hole so my head didn't" stories, but there are tradeoffs with everything.
ChrisK14 03-02-2009, 01:23 PM I've riden bikes for many years (over 40k miles I would guess), not as much these days. I've always worn a helmet.
I agree with helmet laws. And I think requiring helmets is not just for the rider's benefit.
How would you feel if you were involved in an accident in your car and a bike. Even with no fault of your own. But the driver of the bike died because of not wearing a helmet. Somehow, "he was an idiot" just doesn't seem to cover the grief.
How does a mother expalin to her 5 year old son that "daddy was excercising his right to drive without a hemet" for why he will never come home again.
Please were a helmet. If not for yourself, for everyone who cares about you and even those who would if you would give them a chance.
lightfoot 03-02-2009, 01:47 PM It's interesting to think about motorcycle roadracers. There's never a peep from any of them about being required to wear helmets, gloves, boots, leathers, and many wear additional protective gear.
You might think they are in greater danger than street riders because of the higher speeds, but:
- racetracks are designed with clear crash runoff areas and protective soft barriers where runoff is limited
- there is no oncoming or cross traffic
- ALS medical help is onsite, typically available within a minute or two.
Most roadracers say they won't ride on the street any more, "It's far too dangerous!" many of them say.
So it does seem a bit odd for people to insist on riding without helmets to demonstrate their right to ?????? Do something dangerous???
From this perspective, it seems to be more about personal right to risk and less about motorcycles. It's an argument about where society will draw the line between what precautions are required and which are optional.
Shiba3420 03-02-2009, 02:45 PM I've riden bikes for many years (over 40k miles I would guess), not as much these days. I've always worn a helmet.
How does a mother expalin to her 5 year old son that "daddy was excercising his right to drive without a hemet" for why he will never come home again.
Buy why draw the line at the point of helmets? If bikes are more dangerous than cars, why not forbid the bikes? How does a mother explain to her 5 year old son that "daddy was playing hell's angel/easy rider/etc" for why he will never come home again?
At what point should society say too much risk? Or worse, when should society say too silly of a risk?
On the oposite side of my thoughts...I realized I'm pro seat belts. How can I be pro seat-belts and not be pro helmet?
Earthling 03-02-2009, 03:39 PM A quick "watch out for motorcyclists" video:
http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/showphoto.php/photo/10677
I've got more of those. I do a "motorcycle awareness" module for driver improvement classes.
Harry
oldlar 03-02-2009, 04:21 PM It drivers do not want to provide for their own safety sobeit and suffer the consequenses. I grew up prior to the mandated seatbelts and have survived. I have used seatbelts since they were installed in cars, although the lap belts of the 60s vintage cars were not that great. I don't ride a motorcycle and have never been on one. My moutain bike was unsafe enough for me when riding on the streets. Florida..no helmet required and all too many motorcycleists drive like maniacs on the expressways.
After 40+ years of driving, I haven't ever been in an auto accident (knock on wood). Are seat belts, air bags, rollbars, anti lock brakes, all wheel drive or traction control needed or need to mandated their use? I have driven cars with all these "things" in the car, is it worth the extra cost to purchase or the exhorbitant cost to repair.
Will air bags work after 20 years in a car? I have a couple of 20+ year old cars, prior to the air bags requirement and these cars work fine. What is the life expectancy of an air bag in a car?
In an accident and you are on a bike, you are at high risk if you come to a sudden stop.
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