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Volkswagen's stock may go up in the coming years, like Toyota's with the Prius. (newsweek.com/id/183150)

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/501/2009_VW_Jetta_TDI_Test_drive_wrapped.jpgJulie Halpert - Newsweek - Feb 4, 2009

Consider all options -- Ed.

While carmakers lament their overflowing lots full of unsold cars, slow demand isn't a problem for Volkswagen's 2009 Jetta TDI, the first passenger car with a clean-diesel engine that gets 40 miles per gallon on the highway. "We're selling every one we get," said Jim Gill, a spokesman for Volkswagen Group of America. The performance-oriented and fuel-efficient engines are also making their way into the company's Rabbit and its Touareg SUV.

Diesels aren't exactly new. They've been widely popular in Europe where they secured 50 percent of the overall market last year. But they've been slow to catch on in the United States, capturing only 2.3 percent of the market. That's despite the fact that some new diesel engines offer roughly 25 to 30 percent better fuel economy than hybrids and have a cheaper price premium—$1,000 to $2,000 instead of $4,000 to $5,000. Another added benefit: diesel's pep. "You get great fuel economy gains without sacrificing performance," says Rob Moran, a spokesperson for Mercedes-Benz, which recently introduced its BlueTec clean-diesel engine in several models sold in America. "People are starting to see that diesel is another option that's out there."...http://www.newsweek.com/id/183150

Not the best when it comes to the environment... but diesel is efficient. My father has an '04 Honda Accord 2.2 i-CTDI (which I chose for him) and during 3 months I averaged 5,7 L/100 kms (about half of it urban circuit).

It weighs a bit over 1600 kgs and has 140HP/340Nm.

Edit: I forgot... I took record of it at Spritmonitor (http://www.spritmonitor.de/en/detail/265224.html).


I'm not so sure about that as diesel's aren't so clean. Nowadays their getting more exhaust/emission filtering which adds to its price and maintenance.

One of the biggest reasons I wouldn't buy a diesel is fuel access. I don't mean finding a station that has diesel, thats not a problem, but often stations only have 1 or 2 of their pumps outfitted with diesel. So the station may be virutally empty, but I might still have to wait for somoene to get finished on the one pump I need.

I'd like to here from some diesel owners in the group...
Is this a problem or just my imagination?

One of the biggest reasons I wouldn't buy a diesel is fuel access. I don't mean finding a station that has diesel, thats not a problem, but often stations only have 1 or 2 of their pumps outfitted with diesel. So the station may be virutally empty, but I might still have to wait for somoene to get finished on the one pump I need.

I'd like to here from some diesel owners in the group...
Is this a problem or just my imagination?

Yeah but how often a month does this happen? If you're getting crazy milage from more efficient engine you might only be fueling once or twice a month.

Hi Jonathan:

___It is not so much finding a diesel pump although I live along an Interstate corridor, it is fueling from one. The pump handles themselves are usually quite dirty. Get diesel on you sometime and it sticks for a good long time. Many diesel stations and truck stops include plastic gloves but those that do not, you may hate to grab the nozzle.

___This is the one area where the lux diesel buyer may have a problem. People wearing $500 leather coats and $100 leather gloves will soon tire of having to go to a local pump with the residue of diesel on it each and every time.

___Good Luck

___Wayne

One of the biggest reasons I wouldn't buy a diesel is fuel access. I don't mean finding a station that has diesel, thats not a problem, but often stations only have 1 or 2 of their pumps outfitted with diesel. So the station may be virutally empty, but I might still have to wait for somoene to get finished on the one pump I need.

I'd like to here from some diesel owners in the group...
Is this a problem or just my imagination?
I end up waiting maybe 1 in 10 times I go to fill up. Sometimes I end up waiting because diesel and gas are combined and the one or two pumps that give out both is being used. But other times, I don't have to wait because the diesel pumps are separate and nobody else is using them. It probably comes close to evening out in the end.

Most of the nozzles I use are similar in cleanliness to gasoline nozzles. But a few times I have filled at truck stops and it felt like the ground and pump were both covered in an oil slick. The problem is that diesel doesn't evaporate like gasoline. It is much more oil-like so any spilled fuel or residue just sits there for a long time.

Jonathan, that problem is pretty much your imagination. I never have trouble finding a diesel pump. Even if there are only 1-2 diesel pumps at a station, there are also fewer diesel vehicles ... so I don't have to wait much more often than I do for gas. Even when I'm buying biodiesel, which is wildly popular here.

Actually, here in Oregon you're better off with a diesel than a gas car in terms of waiting. We're a "full service" state, which means it's illegal to pump your own gas. You have to wait for an attendant, which occasionally can take a while. However, we ARE allowed to pump our own diesel, no waiting. I often do, much to the shock of the gasser drivers around me.

Also remember that even in city driving we average 500-600 miles per tank, more on the highway. We're filling up barely half as often as with the gasser.

Wayne's right about the dirty pump handles. That stuff is sticky, and it's hard to fill up diesel and not end up with stinky hands.

Agreed that fuel is easy to find. And the wax in it makes it hard to wash off, and impossible to evaporate. Stations do such a good job treating for winter that gelling never seems to happen.

One item I ran into while researching DPF regeneration cycles is plugging. Apparently some EuroIV spec autos are not regenerating properly because the owners' regular routines don't include long enough drives to heat up the DPF. Regen should happen every 4-500 miles, and when it doesn't fault codes pop up because the car isn't breathing.
I think a hybrid is a better option for urban/short hop settings anyway, hopefully it won't be an issue here in the states.

Keith

So the station may be virutally empty, but I might still have to wait for somoene to get finished on the one pump I need.

I'd like to here from some diesel owners in the group...
Is this a problem or just my imagination?

The only time this is an issue (frustrating) is that case where the pump is a gas/diesel pump and there are several clear gas pumps but the two other cars at the station are filling up with gas at the diesel pumps. It's enough to drive you mad, but doesn't happen THAT often. Actually, as far as waiting for diesel behind other diesels... that happened to my GF once this winter, and it was because the station didn't have winter blend and there was a cold snap (causing it to pump slow). Needless to say the diesel gelled, but this was the first time in 8 years that this has happened - so this winter we started using additive.

Diesel is easy enough to find here in CT...

And about the article (finally)... they mention that they'll be doing a Rabbit Diesel for next model year. I had my doubts, but that is the cats pajamas!

One of the biggest reasons I wouldn't buy a diesel is fuel access. I don't mean finding a station that has diesel, thats not a problem, but often stations only have 1 or 2 of their pumps outfitted with diesel. So the station may be virutally empty, but I might still have to wait for somoene to get finished on the one pump I need.

I'd like to here from some diesel owners in the group...
Is this a problem or just my imagination?

I think this is just your imagination; here in PA I go to a BP station next to highway. They have two gas/diesel combined pumps. I have to wait 30% of the time, but I don't care because I only fill up about once per month (600+ miles per tank :D ).


Hi Jonathan:

___It is not so much finding a diesel pump although I live along an Interstate corridor, it is fueling from one. The pump handles themselves are usually quite dirty. Get diesel on you sometime and it sticks for a good long time. Many diesel stations and truck stops include plastic gloves but those that do not, you may hate to grab the nozzle.

___This is the one area where the lux diesel buyer may have a problem. People wearing $500 leather coats and $100 leather gloves will soon tire of having to go to a local pump with the residue of diesel on it each and every time.

___Good Luck

___Wayne

Wayne, the dirty pump handle is the only thing I don't like about diesel. I use the shop towels provided or use my own to wrap around the handle so I don't have to touch it with my bare hand. I've never had a problem using this method.

Thanks everyone for the replies about not waiting for pumps. While I still suspect there are stations where this could be a problem (for instanace the walmart where people are usually 2 deep anyway and the only 2 diesel pumps are combined with regular gas pumps), but now I'll have to give more consideration to diesels when the next time comes around to buy a car. I'll also have to remember to keep food service gloves in the car for those nastier stations.

On a different note: would diesels have an even greater advantage over traditional gas cars for PHEVs...especially those designed like the Volt where you don't so much have a motor as a generator?

The wildcard in favor of diesel for me is biodiesel (not straight or waste veggie oil) as a fuel stock supplement. (It smells like cooking oil - not bad.)

Jonathan, diesels are better for generator service but when gas engines are correctly tuned for the job, not much. Besides, their is a weight penalty you have to consider with the diesel as it must be more robust to handle the higher compression ratios.

I believe the original spec for the Volt generator was a 3cyl turbo gas engine. They considered diesel but decided not to go for it because of the weight. A factor in its (diesel's) favor though is the fact that diesel just doesn't go bad the same way that modern gas does. Long intervals of non-runtime shouldn't be as much of an issue.

The wildcard in favor of diesel for me is biodiesel (not straight or waste veggie oil) as a fuel stock supplement. (It smells like cooking oil - not bad.)

This is one reason I drive a diesel car. I use about 10-20% biodiesel made from waste veggie oil. The biodiesel I use is 100% made in the USA.

Off topic, but what's the point of a turbo on a generator? Since it's tuned for that one specific output, can't you just raise the compression?

Off topic, but what's the point of a turbo on a generator? Since it's tuned for that one specific output, can't you just raise the compression?

Raise compression = raise NOX, I believe. In this situation, the turbo would certainly add efficiency, and allow a smaller motor.

Andrew, in the case of the Volt there are 3 (maybe 4) distinct RPM the generator is tuned to run efficiently at for different loads. The Turbo was just so that the generator could be smaller for most normal stuff but be able to produce the peak output needed to drive the Volt up the side of a steep mountain.

They axed that in favor of the normally aspirated version of the engine destined for the Cruze (in turbo format) for economies of scale and also lower RPM settings for better longevity.

Ah, makes sense.

About diesel pollution, see this post : http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?p=177364#post177364
(I'm not saying diesel doesn't pollute)

I can't talk about DPF and their effectiveness as my cars are far too old. What I can say is that the rear of the scenic over the exhaust stays cleaner longer since we are eco-driving.

I notice that since a couple years all diesel have odor additives and diesel pump are cleaner. May be the more the diesel pump will be used the more they'll be clean and diesel smell less.

Denis.

Hi All,

If the majority of people lived out on farms - yea Diesels would outnumber Hybrids, in time. Its hard to beat a Diesel at constant speed highway efficiency (although Mercedes showed us that the RX400h ties it). But most miles driven in the US are in metropolitan areas. The stop/slow and go performance of the HSD, and equivalent low highway speed economy wins it for the HSD car.

Diesel is sold as simplistic, but there is nothing simplistic about variable geometry turbo chargers, DPF's, Urea injection catalytic converters, high pressure direct piezo injectors (which make SVO unusable) and DSG transmissions.

Diesels are not a rethink of the basic efficiency of the car, but of the engine alone. HSD is a rethink of the whole car system. Toyota has a ways to go on the short trip efficiency, but HSD is only 11 years old now, too.

...but, they are just getting started on true diesel scrubbing, too. Who would have imagined that diesel cars would be able to get the same emissions as petrol 10 years ago? This is really the 1st gen of 'clean diesel'.