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Current offerings are dated while the PHEV/BEV_proposals are just that, proposals. (cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?p=181942)

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/501/2009_Chrysler_200C_PHEV_Concept.jpgWayne Gerdes – CleanMPG (cleanmpg.com) – Jan. 21, 2009

Chrysler 200C 40-mile AER (All-electric range) PHEV.

Detroit - While walking the show floor of this years 2009 (North American International Auto Show) NAIAS, we walked by the Chrysler display(s) possibly 15 times and the number of times we stopped to have a discussion? 0. I wanted to but fluffed up press releases and last year's Cows, Cowboys and Dodge Rams running and driving around downtown Detroit soured me to the prospect. In other words, credibility from a CleanMPG’ers perspective has reached rock bottom.

From last year's initially exciting EcoVoyager, ZEO and Renegade FCV, BEV and PHEV concept launches, this year’s update did little to bolster confidence or spark enthusiasm for the brand or its vehicles. The only bright spot was the just-released and beautiful Chrysler 200C PHEV. This is a vehicle that Dodge/Chrysler should have on the road as a fuel efficient compact sedan today, not as a PHEV at some point well into the future.

Herein lies the problem: ENVI (Environmentally Responsible Electric-drive vehicle technology) is an in-house Chrysler organization that was formed in late 2007. Its focus is to establish Chrysler as a leader in PHEVs/BEVs and related advanced-propulsion technologies. Daimler starved Chrysler of product R&D during its ownership and left it to fend for itself with a product line that is 5+ years old. Then came the privatization by Cerberus. Cerberus itself was not interested in the future of Chrysler but only in the financing arm while passing the automobile production business off to the highest bidder. In other words, product was only a bargaining chip until the financial transaction could be completed with somebody. Anybody...

The Vehicles

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/501/2009_Chrysler_PHEV_-_EV_Concepts.jpg

Chrysler 200C and Town and Country PHEVs - Circuit BEV (center) – Wrangler and Patriot PHEVs

Dodge Circuit BEV is last years 150 to 200-mile AER ZEO. Unless Chrysler can sell $100,000 2-seat sports cars in quantity, what is the point?

Chrysler Town & Country PHEV delivers the common themed 40-miles of AER and 400-miles total range in Chrysler’s best Minivan. The promise is there. Practicality of a $50,000 plus Minivan? It is the right direction given Chrysler Minivans are some of the best on the market but without the longer term R&D and with the market segment shrinking, who is going to pay $50,000 plus, let alone can we afford a $50,00 plus anything nowadays?

Jeep Patriot PHEV follows the same 40-mile AER with the Patriot’s rugged appearance. Starting at a reasonable $18,000 plus, over 55,000 units reached consumers' hands last year. As a $40,000 plus PHEV? 5 years from now might make sense but a near term release will make it a tough sell to anyone but rock & roll, rap and movie stars and they do not purchase Patriots.

Jeep Wrangler PHEV and I am going to sound like a broken record. Similar drivetrain, total and AER as the Town and Country and Patriot PHEV’s. Decent sales with over 84,000 std. Wranglers sold last year (on a severe downtrend however) but a $22,000 Wrangler that appears to have been designed 40-years ago for maybe $45,000 once converted? Its electrified future looks grim in the short term.

Chrysler 200C PHEV is a beautifully sculpted and very modern sedan with the same 400-mile total and 40-mile AER. Unfortunately or not, Chrysler is trying to bring about past sales success describing the 200C as a RWD performance sedan in a package that looks spirited and agile. If you read some of Chrysler’s more poetic prose about its appearance, capability and inclusions, you would think its an especially delicious and edible piece of Swiss chocolate. Car companies do this sometimes :rolleyes: Unfortunately or not, the reality of future sales and profitability will be based on form and function at a price the average consumer can afford which is where the 200C appears to be lacking shorter term.

Promises and Reality

Chrysler promises they will produce at least one of the PHEV/BEV vehicles described above for the North American and European markets in 2010 and at least three more models by 2013. Given that the vehicles have the ability to significantly reduce our dependence on foreign oil and more importantly, reduce our consumption of fossil fuels in total while lowering total SMOG forming and GHG emissions, it is a promise I hope they can keep.

The reality is that this is a skunk works startup a little over a year of age within a large and bureaucratic organization. Pulling off a real world PHEV without the IP to do so is a long reach. BEV technology is old hat for many of the OEM’s but mating their current and somewhat inefficient ICE’s to an all-new electric propulsion system including battery and Inverter/Transverter controller integration from who knows who while working around drivetrain patents from the other major Asian, American and European manufacturers is a tight rope most of us would prefer not to walk.

We want to see Chrysler succeed but management priorities appear to be to get out of the automobile manufacturing business, not to get into the business which is what is really needed to succeed let alone survive.

Here's the problems with Chrysler.

The Sebring is probably the worst sedan ever, at least in the words of the Top Gear guy.

Dodge Ram truck sales tanked, obviously, because nobody can afford the gas for those things. And those who actually need the trucks... well, it's a niche market at best and a tiny fraction of previous sales figured.

And Jeep?

Quick, tell me the difference between the Jeep Liberty, Jeep Compass, and Jeep Patriot.

Way too oversaturated - all of them are midsize crossovers. That, and far as I know nothing Chrysler has offers over 30 MPG combined on the '08 EPA.

The 200c would make it seem that Chrysler has improved on their design cues. Hopefully they hired the fiat team of designers and are actually going through with electric vehicles.

At least they are trying. I think?!

As a longtime Chrysler, Dodge and Plymouth owner. I agree with most points stated.
Chrysler isnt known for its fuel economy.
But hybrids are not the only solution. This website is full of people squeeking out hypermiles from conventional drivetrains. Chrysler could learn much here.
Ford is currently leading the way in many respects of new tweaks.

My 05 minivan cannot even compete with my 97 on mileage. With the same engine.
But Chrysler has always had a edge over Ford and GM in style and raw speed.
They also quick turned the disaster Neon into the PT Cruiser.
300m into the 300 C.
Ram got a Hemi and sales took off.
Hemi Challenger's return. Prowler, Viper. They had some fun.
They took chances and won a few times.


If they would steal a page from VW and reduce their floorpans to six total. They wouldn't have to struggle to keep so many independent lines afloat.


Fiat wont save them with small car technology.
Chrysler sold many retagged Mitsubishi's and VW's that got good mileage for years.
It may give Chrysler a long overdue international presence.

But, My gut say's its too late for them.
I'd love to be proven wrong though.

But LameBuns, Sebring......HA !
Guess you never drove a Dodge Caliber.
________
Washington medical marijuana (http://washington.dispensaries.org/)

The buzz at the Detroit press preview was that Chrysler isn't actually doing any engineering work on the PEV systems they trot out as concept cars.

Look, the company needs to sell lots of cars over the next 12 months to stay alive and that's not happening. Ford and GM each showed a number of ACTUAL cars coming out over the coming months that are at least base hits, one or two maybe even home runs.

Chrysler? ZERO. The 200C is a beautiful car and is highly detailed as far as hardware, etc, i.e. it could easily be put into production. But Ralph Gilles, VP of design, refused to speculate as to when it might come out or even how it might fit into Chrysler's line up, and it's a shortened version of the 300C rear wheel drive chassis, not the kind of set up buyers in that category are looking for.

If this Fiat deal pans out, don't be surprised if Chrysler gets treated the way they treated AMC when they acquired that company. Jeep gets yet another parent company.

Well, I love the looks of the Challenger, and the Prowler, but they weren't practical cars for me to buy or own. I even like the PT Cruiser, and might consider one as my big scope hauler to replace my '87 Chevy Astro van. Other than that one model, Chrysler/Jeep doesn't offer anything else that interests me.

Wait, what about the Chrysler Crossfire? That's a good little car isn't it?

I forgot, Dodge still has the Viper. I know when it first came out it used to be a damn quick car for the money.

And what about the new Challenger? $22k for the base model. That's a good mustang competitor. You and I both know there's a lot of people out there that would rather spend $22k on the Challenger than $20k on a Civic.

Hi Justin:

___You are not going to like this...

08 Crossfire sales: 2,021 in total. Down 77% from 07.
08 Charger Sales: 97,367 in total. Down 18% from 07 and in December were down 51% compared to Dec. of 07.

08 Viper sales however were up 169% for the year vs. 07. Dodge sold a whopping 1,172 of them in the 12-months ended Dec. 31, 2008.

___Civic outsells the Charger almost 4:1 and next year will be almost 7:1 if Charger sales continue their late in the year sales slide off a cliff.

___Good Luck

___Wayne

The Crossfire is already canceled. The Challenger is a niche product, not a mass market product and suffers from the same shortcomings that the rest of Chrysler's passenger cars, most especially CHEAP unattractive interior materials and build quality. Seriously, you look inside one of their cars lately? The quality of the plastics is about equal to that of a bleach bottle.

The Crossfire is already canceled.

The Crossfire has been one of those on again, off again models for Chrysler.

I had an '05 convertible and loved that little car. The only issue I had with it was that the seat wouldn't adjust right for me. The adjustment mechanism had more room to travel, but the seat hit in back and wouldn't go any farther.

I enjoyed the car a lot, but a boat with something to tow it with was a little more important to me, so I traded it in.

When I bought the Crossfire I was looking for something distinctive. I have always driven vehicles that get me (and my fishing gear) from point A to point B. Since I was keeping the Ranger I went for something that got me from point A to point B, but with some style. Unfortunately, I wasn't worried much about FE at the time.

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/calculatorCompareSideBySide.jsp?column=1&id=20469

The picture there is what mine looked like (even the color).

Can you imagine Lee Iacocca right now? He saved them a quarter century ago and now this!

Am I the only guy in this country who's fed up with what's happening? Where the hell is our outrage? We should be screaming bloody murder. We've got a gang of clueless bozos steering our ship of state right over a cliff, we've got corporate gangsters stealing us blind, and we can't even clean up after a hurricane much less build a hybrid car. But instead of getting mad, everyone sits around and nods their heads when the politicians say, "Stay the course." Stay the course? You've got to be kidding. This is America, not the damned Titanic. I'll give you a sound bite: Throw the bums out!