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...making it the battery manufacturer's largest single cash investor - at 9 per cent ownership. (http://www.domain-b.com/companies/companies_g/ge/20081023_a123systems.html)

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/501/A123Systems_Li-Ion_battery.jpgDomain-b - October 23, 2008

GE yesterday disclosed having made its sixth equity investment in lithium-ion battery manufacturer A123Systems, a developer of batteries for hybrid cars and other electric devices.

The company, started in 2001, has received investment backing from GE, Motorola, Qualcomm, Procter & Gamble's Duracell division, Massachusetts Institute of Technology and private equity firms Alliance Capital, Sequoia Capital, North Bridge Venture Partners, CMEA Ventures, FA Technology Ventures and OnPoint.

In August this year, just two months after declaring its intention to bring out its electric vehicle, the Chevrolet Volt by the end of this decade, General Motors declared that its futuristic vehicle as being almost ready for testing after the successful conclusion of the design stage.

However, GM still has considerable work to do on the Volt's lithium-ion battery and other technology in the two years before the car is scheduled to go on sale....http://www.domain-b.com/companies/companies_g/ge/20081023_a123systems.html

My favorite part...

The company is currently working on a 'battery range extender module' that can be installed in the spare tire well of most hybrid vehicles, to enable existing production models become plug-in hybrids capable of achieving 150 or more miles per gallon, with the option to replace a discharged battery in the module, instead of having to recharging it, to extend the range of vehicles.

Are they publicly traded and if so, what is their symbol?

Are they publicly traded and if so, what is their symbol?

The article says not yet and that the current market turmoil is part of the delay.

My favorite part...

is working with major automakers on 19 vehicle models, ranging from hybrids to plug-in hybrids to full electric vehicles

That's a great number. We must hurry. Did anyone catch PBS's FRONTLINE this week? YIKES!! Our planet killing trends are not reversing quickly enough!

Not publicly traded yet. I'm all in once they are.

sorry... I'm still not on the A123 Band Wagon ...

They are good for W / Kg ( high C rates ) ... a cross ( in the middle ) between a capacitor and other types of batteries ....

But the Wh / Kg is not there... other Battery companies offer 75% or more Wh in the same kg of weight ... and usually for about the same or less $ per Wh .... As you use larger sized Battery pack for the PHEVs and EVs the high W / kg ( high C rates ) becomes less and less important and useful... yes an Insight for example to power the 10 kW IMA motor out of the small NiMH pack is allot of juice taking discharge rates over 15C ... but when you have a 10 Kwh battery pack like in the Aptera and are powering a 30 kW motor with it you are only pulling up to ~3C ... the larger Wh the battery pack you have for longer ranges the lower the C rate you need for surges.

As for the safety issue .. yes for some applications like a military vehicle that is getting shoot at it might be a useful additional layer of protection ... but Gasoline , Home Heating Oil , Propane , etc... all of these fuels we use on a regular daily basis are all very flammable... all of these fuels we already use hold more Wh of potential energy to release in a fire and some will causes explosions ... so the safety issue of even old school laptop batteries is far less than the other fuels we already use all over on a daily basis.

Additionally the cycle life they show is not the area where Lithium batteries fail... it is years of life... I have not yet seen ( probably because they are still too new ) , any study showing the actual yearly decay of A123 compared to other Lithium battery options... Too many people take the cycle life to be = to the yearly life... and that is very often just not the case... especially with Lithium based batteries in particular.

sorry... I'm still not on the A123 Band Wagon ...
They are good for W / Kg ( high C rates ) ... a cross ( in the middle ) between a capacitor and other types of batteries ....
But the Wh / Kg is not there... other Battery companies offer 75% or more Wh in the same kg of weight ... and usually for about the same or less $ per Wh .... As you use larger sized Battery pack for the PHEVs and EVs the high W / kg ( high C rates ) becomes less and less important and useful... yes an Insight for example to power the 10 kW IMA motor out of the small NiMH pack is allot of juice taking discharge rates over 15C ... but when you have a 10 Kwh battery pack like in the Aptera and are powering a 30 kW motor with it you are only pulling up to ~2C ... the larger Wh the battery pack you have for longer ranges the lower the C rate you need for surges.
As for the safety issue .. yes for some applications like a military vehicle that is getting shoot at it might be a useful additional layer of protection ... but Gasoline , Home Heating Oil , Propane , etc... all of these fuels we use on a regular daily basis are all very flammable... all of these fuels we already use hold more Wh of potential energy to release in a fire and some will causes explosions ... so the safety issue of even old school laptop batteries is far less than the other fuels we already use all over on a daily basis.
Additionally the cycle life they show is not the area where Lithium batteries fail... it is years of life... I have not yet seen ( probably because they are still too new ) , any study showing the actual yearly decay of A123 compared to other Lithium battery options... Too many people take the cycle life to be = to the yearly life... and that is very often just not the case... especially with Lithium based batteries in particular.

That may be true but when that A123 stock hits the market :Banane54::Banane54:

That may be true but when that A123 stock hits the market :Banane54::Banane54:

I expect you will be correct... most people I have talked with... all seem overly taken / impressed with A123... they are good batteries... but for PHEVs and EVs there are better batteries to be had for equal or less $.... although if the masses continue to think it is better than it really is than the additional flow of money into the company from those masses will allow them to do more research and work on trying to make the batteries as good as people think they are... kind of like a self full filling proficiency.

But... then again I also remember not too long ago Valence Lithium batteries were supposed to be the next great thing... funny how no one seems to talk much about them anymore... A123 is the popular kid this season... and A123's season is a bit better in timing as the major car companies are now asking for batteries for HEVs, PHEVs, EV, REEV....

For example CTA 12Ah NiMH D cell battery I bought 30 of them ~3 years ago... Today you can buy them on Amazon for ~$18.75 for 2 , or ~ $9.38 each ... As far as I know the Dewalt Battery pack method of getting A123 Batteries is still about $16 per cell... this gives

Wh / L or Energy per unit Volume higher number is better
CTA NiMH D Cell ~276 WH / L ... vs only ~ 219 Wh / L for the A123

Wh / Kg or Energy per unit Weight higher number is better
CTA NiMH D Cell ~90Wh / Kg ... vs the slightly higher ~108 Wh / Kg for A123

Wh / $ of Energy per unit price higher number is better
CTA NiMH D cell ~1.5 Wh / $ ... vs the ~0.5 Wh / $ for A123

So in comparison the CTA NiMH gives ~300% more Wh per $ you spend... and will use ~20% less space for the same Wh of battery ... and will weigh ~10% more for the same Wh of battery.... that 10% weight savings seems like it is coming at a very very high price to me... and this is only 3 year old NiMH D Cell... If I compare the A123 against other Lithium Batteries they get spanked and hard.

Even with massive additional funding A123 just seems like a one trick pony... it does high C rates... but that only matters when you have small battery packs to power big things... and PHEVs and EVs and REEVs all will use bigger battery packs , not smaller ones... the safety issue is a none issue as the gasoline in your car is already more dangerous than any of the more energy dense Lithium batteries.