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“It has been determined, in our judgment, this is the best thing to move forward,” said Senator Majority Leader Harry Reid. (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/01/business/01bailout.html?ref=business)

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/501/Pelosi_and_Reid.jpgCarl Hulse and Robert Pear - NY Times - Sept. 30, 2008

Congressman Pelosi and Senator Reid released a joint statement to the President saying a responsible bill will be passed.

The Christmas ornaments are being added just as those that do not know the difference between a credit swap and preferred stock believe they are part of the solution. -- Ed.

WASHINGTON — Senate leaders scheduled a Wednesday vote on a $700 billion financial bailout package after accepting tax breaks and a higher limit for insured bank deposits in a bid to win House approval and send legislation to President Bush by the end of the week.

Top lawmakers said the Senate proposal, worked out after a day of behind the scenes maneuvering, would include tax breaks for businesses and alternative energy and higher government insurance for bank deposits…

The senators issued no details of their proposal and said none would be available until Wednesday. The lawmakers were gambling that the tax package would appeal to lawmakers who helped sink the measure in the House on Monday, without driving off Democrats who have opposed extending the tax incentives without offsetting spending cuts elsewhere…

Speaker Nancy Pelosi was noncommital about the new Senate plan Tuesday night, but other Democrats said it might be difficult to reject given the crisis and the array of tax breaks. “The Senate will vote tomorrow night, and the Congress will work its will,” Ms. Pelosi said… http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/01/business/01bailout.html?ref=business

Caution: blatant views of conservatism ahead...




This thing needs to fail. We need wisdom, not fear. We need a real fix, not a band-aid over a festering wound. The people at the top of this thing are trying to cover their rears. This country doesn't need anymore debt.

Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi make me sick.

I would add Barney Frank to that list. He was one of the biggest defenders of Fannie Mae and Freddy Mac when regulators were saying before Congress that these two institutions were in danger of imploding unless something was done. Don't forget that of all the members of the senate, the one who received the second most amount of money from them was Senator Obama.

This country doesn't need anymore debt.


Agreed.

I am against the bail out.

$700 Billion dollars of bad debt off of these companies at best will only help these companies to help Americans to go further into personal debt.

The core issue is that the U.S. as a country has been using debt as a system to artificially boost the yearly spending ... thus artificially boosting the economy in the short term... but in the long term... buying on debt reduces the life time total that a person can spend , thus effectively over all reducing and lowering the economy.

Even $0.01 cents of interest is that much less money you will have to spend over your life time.... thus that much less the economy is pushed forward... those people who get so bad they can't keep up with their debt go to court , they declare bankruptcy... which is good for the person as it fees them from that massive debt burden and gives them a second chance... but those people who they owed that debt to will now not get their money so it reduces their income and thus still lowers how much they will spend and still hurts the economy... just as much over all.

Eventually the short term gains debt gives to the economy always take more than they give in the long run... and we are starting to see some of that fall back now...

shifting the debt to the whole of the country is not a good solution...

The US government for all practical purposes has only one significant source of income... Taxes... in order to absorb $700 Billion they need to raise taxes to cover it... or reduce spending to cover it... both of which will hurt the economy.

~300 Million people in this country... some of whom like the 5 year olds... don't have money to give... plus we already owe $10 Trillion Dollars in the national Debt... this means as a government the U.S. already borrowed against the future of us citizens to the tune of over $33,000 per person... with children not having the money and the low income people not having that extra money ... we don't pay it off... and the interest causes the debt to continue to grow every year... the government like the citizens spends more than it makes... which is a bad idea.

but I've ranted enough... I digress.

Whenever I talk to Americans or read what they write, it seems like the majority are intelligent, polite people. Much nicer than us Canadians who are branded nice mostly because we have no real power.

It puzzles me how the majority votes for so many poor measures when my life long experience with American individuals has been very positive.

I would add Barney Frank to that list. He was one of the biggest defenders of Fannie Mae and Freddy Mac when regulators were saying before Congress that these two institutions were in danger of imploding unless something was done. Don't forget that of all the members of the senate, the one who received the second most amount of money from them was Senator Obama.

Of course, how could I forget Barney. He makes me sick too :o

Catgic, you beat me to the video, I was about to post that myself... :rolleyes:

To add a "pearl of wisdom" from the great Rush Limbaugh (whose name is often not well received here, but he is correct on this issue):

"The preamble of the Constitution states it was created to 'promote the general welfare,' not ensure it. The bailout bill says it 'provides authority to the treasury secretary to ... ensure the economic well-being of Americans.' This abrogates the Constitution. When the government tries to run the economy, it always fails."


The Preamble of the United States constitution:
"We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

Section I, short title, of the bailout bill: "Emergency Economic Stabilization Act of 2008, Section II, Purposes: Provides authority to the Treasury Secretary to restore liquidity and stability to the US financial system and to ensure the economic well-being of Americans."

This is socialism.


As Rush puts it, because I can't really say it better:
"The US Constitution has been abrogated and is being tossed overboard section by section by the Democrat Party and the American left."

Sorry to say, but it's happening. In no way am I saying that the GOP is not partially responsible for the state of economy as a whole, but I am pretty convinced they didn't have much to do with this current banking situation. The Dems are just shocked that they got caught.


I think this is a much better plan... Dave Ramsey, writer of "The Total Money Makeover" and host of "The Dave Ramsey Show" was on FOX and Friends talking about it, here's a clip:Dave Ramsey's Alternative (http://www.foxnews.com/video/index.html?playerId=videolandingpage&streamingFormat=FLASH&referralObject=3126209&referralPlaylistId=949437d0db05ed5f5b9954dc049d70b0c12f2749)

It's also on his website in what he calls The Common Sense Fix (http://www.daveramsey.com/etc/fed_bailout/3_steps_to_change_the_nations_future_10928.htmlc?ictid=sml).

"pray for them" is labeled "common sense" ?!
.
Well, as long as we're doing the blind belief thing, he might
as well extend the fantasy that anyone *could* vote them out.
.
_H*

I've got to input my opinion here. Since when did the proposed bailout of financial institutions become news on THIS site? Because I've got to tell you, I get enough of deluded opinions and talk in every other aspect of my life, I don't need to go here to read that "Rush is spot on."

I was attracted to this site originally because of auto news and technology as well as discussion regarding fuel efficiency. If these news stories and general "blatant conservatism" are going to become the norm, I will have to reconsider visiting this site (to which I've donated money, albeit a small amount).

Get a clue people.

I've got to input my opinion here. Since when did the proposed bailout of financial institutions become news on THIS site? Because I've got to tell you, I get enough of deluded opinions and talk in every other aspect of my life, I don't need to go here to read that "Rush is spot on."

I was attracted to this site originally because of auto news and technology as well as discussion regarding fuel efficiency. If these news stories and general "blatant conservatism" are going to become the norm, I will have to reconsider visiting this site (to which I've donated money, albeit a small amount).

Get a clue people.

I would have to agree with you. Politics and economic discussion that doesn't seem to involve learning to "raise fuel economy and lower emissions" is becoming more prevalent.

Maybe that is the owners wishes though.

Hi Matt:

___Because it is News and we are broadening a bit. For the 5 to 10 posts about business/economics vs. the 130 about venicles and such I have posted in the past two weeks, don’t waste your time to read the 5 to 10. There are far to many other "good" threads to read to waste your time with these ;)

___As for the rest, $5 Trillion (soon to be another $1 Trillion) was added to the National debt after the Bush administration came to office? In 7 years, Defense spending has nothing to do with that I am sure? All to defend what? Oil fields in Iraq while saying we need to kill 4,000 + soldiers for made up WMD's? The first of many Bailouts is going to the banks, not the mortgage holders. The banks racking up leverage to the tune of 30 and 40:1. WTF, I wouldn’t touch that kind of leverage but I have to pay for it?

___It sucks I personally have been asked to donate over $65,000 to my government the past 7 years to cover my families obligations and am going to be asked for another $10,000 to cover the Republican cronies banks, insurance houses and Wall Street greed for the good of the country. Thank you Mr. Bush, can I have another please? Glad to see you go and watch the democrats actually begin to try and fix this as they did the previous 7-years with 3 + years of actual surplus’. If anyone believes this administration doesn’t lead the country and its fiscal policies, how did we get into Iraq? Place the blame on the Administration and you can thank "him" for stealing $75,000 from your family too.

___Isn’t it fun being lied to and stolen from all the time :ccry:

___Good Luck

___Wayne

I suppose your point is that any news affects oil and global politics including this bailout. And in that regard, I agree. I shall take the comments that follow these types of news articles with a grain of salt then. I certainly would like to see the focus of this site remain on fuel conservation and efficiency.

Hi Matt:

___The tie in here is mostly our currency. As we pile on the debt, the $ heads south :( When we talk about $10/gallon and $40,000 Prius’ in Europe, it is a currency issue as Europeans appear to be making far more in real wage than we do and it is mostly based on the $ as it sinks vs. the Euro. The Japanese and Chinese appear to be handling their own currency translation by purchasing US Govt. debt to the tune of 22 and 20% of the total outstanding respectively.

___Good Luck

___Wayne

Well they passed the bail out in the senate. Now the house will do it. I got the K-Y out. The wife and I are voting out everybody we can here in Retard Oklahoma.

Well, we like to talk about all kinds of stuff, and it all sort
of ties together in a way -- economics, you'll notice if you
look around a bit, plays heavily into what we do here.
.
_H*

I've got to input my opinion here. Since when did the proposed bailout of financial institutions become news on THIS site? Because I've got to tell you, I get enough of deluded opinions and talk in every other aspect of my life, I don't need to go here to read that "Rush is spot on."

I was attracted to this site originally because of auto news and technology as well as discussion regarding fuel efficiency. If these news stories and general "blatant conservatism" are going to become the norm, I will have to reconsider visiting this site (to which I've donated money, albeit a small amount).

Get a clue people.

The forums are divided into quite a wide range of sub-topics so it is quite easy to ignore those that do not interest you. And heaven forbid people might have a range of opinions that does not mirror your own.

Wayne: The latest Senate bail out bill reportedly now has a AMT relief provision - thoughts?

Wayne: The latest Senate bail out bill reportedly now has a AMT relief provision - thoughts?

Depends on if they plan on applying the AMT patch again this year. If they don't, I'll get bit by it :(.

Mitch McConnell has just lost my vote because he voted yea on the bailout golden parachute bill. His first sin was to support the McCain-Kennedy amnesty bill last year (why I will never vote for McCain) but I was willing to forgive him since he did change his mind under immense pressure.

But this bailout bill is the end of it. I'd sooner vote Democrat just to throw this incompetent moron out of office.

Gathered CleanMPG’erz --- Is any one surprised that the 451-page Emergency Economic Stabilization Act Of 2008 Bailout Bill Behemoth has been ka-¢hing, ka-¢hing morphed into the $enate Pork Barrel Bill with the Senate throwing everything into it but the kitchen sink?

New Tax Earmarks, Earmark “Extenders” Added To The Bailout Bill:

- Film and Television Productions [Hollywood Pork] (Sec. 502)
- Wooden Arrows designed for use by children [Oregon Pork] (Sec. 503)
- Package of earmarks for litigants in the 1989 Exxon Valdez incident, Alaska [Alaskan Pork] (Sec. 504)
- Virgin Island and Puerto Rican Rum [Bacardi, et al Pork] (Section 308)
- American Samoa [Polynesian Pork] (Sec. 309)
- Mine Rescue Teams [Coal Industry Pork] (Sec. 310)
- Mine Safety Equipment [Coal Industry Pork] (Sec. 311)
- Domestic Production Activities in Puerto Rico [Coal Pork] (Sec. 312)
- Indian Tribes [Indian Casinos, et al Pork] (Sec. 314, 315)
- Railroads [CSX, et al Pork] (Sec. 316)
- Auto Racing Tracks [NASCAR Pork] (Sec 317)
- District of Columbia [Inside-The-Beltway Pork] (Sec. 322)
- Wool Research [Sheep Rancher Pork] (Sec. 325)





MMM, all that definitely makes me look forward to yummy holiday salami.... :D


On the other hand, a lot of senators, and probably many house reps, will likely be losing their butt cushions soon enough.

It's unfortunate that, amidst a do-nothing Congress for the past few years, they had to start now...

Depends on if they plan on applying the AMT patch again this year. If they don't, I'll get bit by it :(.

My understanding is that it is a one year extension of relief.

My understanding is that it is a one year extension of relief.

Yep. But, they've been extending it that way for years. All it takes is for them not to do it once to put me in a major hole.