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Bush Administration officials warned of dire consequences should Congress delay or impose too many limits on Treasury's authority. (http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/content/sep2008/db20080923_731910.htm?chan=top+news_top+news+index+-+temp_news+%2B+analysis)

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/501/Paulson_-_Bush_-_Bernanke.jpgTheo Francis and Jane Sasseen - Business Week - Sept. 24, 2008

U.S. Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson, President Bush and Federal Reserve Board Chairman Ben Bernanke discussing the problems of the day…

The last time the Bush Administration warned of dire consequences, we invaded a country to the tune of almost a $Trillion dollars and 4,171 US soldiers have been killed to date. What will we get this time around? -- Ed.

Congress is wary of angry voters, but behind the scenes a compromise is forming. Executive pay restrictions may be near.

With public sentiment casting the Bush Administration's plan to resolve the financial crisis as a bailout for the firms that caused it, Senate Banking Committee members took turns grilling Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson and Federal Reserve Board Chairman Ben Bernanke at a hearing on Sept. 23. Behind the scenes, however, many expected nuts-and-bolts negotiation to yield a compromise bill, perhaps over the weekend if not by Friday's scheduled adjournment. Agreement was already coalescing to require some restrictions on executive pay at companies that sell toxic assets to the Treasury, one financial-industry official said.

The theater playing out on Capitol Hill on Tuesday reflected deeply held positions on the role of government and the economy, but with an eye toward how events would play out politically. Polls failed to give a clear picture of just how much support there is for Congress to act: Support ranged from 25% to 56% in different polls.

Lawmakers worry that failing to back the bailout could hurt them, particularly in light of the Administration's warnings of the dire consequences of inaction and the reality of a tumbling stock market. At the same time, fears grew that a protracted debate could undermine support altogether as more questions are raised about the plan's costs and effectiveness… http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/content/sep2008/db20080923_731910.htm?chan=top+news_top+news+index+-+temp_news+%2B+analysis

I think Bush's legacy is going to be "Bailouts for Billionaires". He's just the worst... president... ever...

People who aren't American can just not figure out how a country can vote for this guy twice. If the Republicans win again, all faith will be permanently lost for the majority of Americans.

Not like our mini-Bush in Canada is any better. If we had 1/4 the power of the US I'm sure he'd be invading and pilfering with no respect of the consequences either.

News stories on this have got me too wound up for words. I can't even write a coherent post on it.

It's delusional to think that only Republicans are to blame for this. I would hope that serious reform will come of this, including limits on lobbying and corruption in our government.

Harry

See http://wilk4.com/humor/humorm1.htm

Why is everyone mad at Brian (http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/member.php?u=576)?

Can the politics please.

This site is about sustainability - generally the fuel in the tank of your car, but I see America having a problem with this on several fronts: fuel, enviroment, and financial.

On the desk of both Presidential canidates should be: "It's about sustainability - stupid"

The turmoil on Wall Street threatening Main Street is about unsustainable economics.

Historically we have swung from too much regulation to too little regulation (our present situation).

"The greatest thread to capitalism is unregulated capitalism" - J. D. Rockefeller (of all people)

I don't see what's wrong with the free market as it is. A true free market would be allowed to correct itself. The banks that took on the bad loans and the investors that took on bad mortgage securities should pay for their bad investment. It is not the taxpayer's problem. And to think that this bailout will free up credit? Great.

Free up the opportunity so I can get credit. On my own tax dollars.

The government deficit and its runaway spending is bad enough without another $700 Billion just to bail out the banks. That's more than Iraq has cost us for five years.



And yes let's not turn this into a political Bush-bashing thread.

A modest amount of regulation over the past generation would have avoided this mess. Instead, it will probably insure the election of Barack Obama and very likely too much regulation that will stunt growth. Wall Street was behaving too much like lassie faire capitalism in the late 1800's, inviting a backlash to possible socialism.

If the Bush Administration had exercised some control, he could have been far more successful and McCain would have won in a landslide. This is what I'd preferred, but the greedy and bad decision makers were unchecked.

I liken what Wall Street's failure to someone driving my MIMA Insight pretending they have five traction battery packs, beging for a replacement of the one they beat to death....unregulated capitailism is unsustainable and leads to socialism.

And yes let's not turn this into a political Bush-bashing thread.

Good luck with that, considering the guy's approval rating has slipped to 19%!


http://americanresearchgroup.com/economy/

Both parties are responsible for what's going on, but it's worth noting that Phil Gramm's legislative work in 1999 ended any meaningful regulation of the banking industry. (And by the way, he lobbies for banks and is McCain's economic advisor.)

Free markets are a nice idea in theory, but regulation and oversight are necessary to some degree. I'm not sure exactly what that degree is, but since the S&L scandal the pattern we have is too little regulation, followed by a scandal that leads to a great deal of regulation. Once the crisis fades into memory, a process of deregulation begins that leads to corruption and crisis.

@booferama

And lets not forget that it was passed under the clinton era.

700 billion so this guy can help his buddies keep their golden parachutes. Some of the top executives were pulling in 80 million a year each.

Thats like paying the bag boy at your local grocery store 500k a year so he can cram all your groceries into a bag that will break before you leave the store.


All these guys can make these things float, just turn in some of their ridiculous saleries in place for stock options in the companies and use that as operating capitol. Start negotiating mortgages instead of simply repoing and not being able to sell.

Instead they want to continue to rape the little guy by increasing his taxes.

For a president and party that claims it likes the free market, they need to let the market work when their buddies are getting screwed, the same way they've let it work while the rest of us have got screwed for the past century.

If I can be so bold as to claim to be an advisor to the president I will. I do have a direct line to his office (comments@whitehouse.gov). I have tried to advise him about the gasoline price spiral, The problems of ILLEGAl immigration, unfettered speculation in the commodities markets, junk mortgages given to uncreditworthy people and a host of other problems and he isn't responing or acting. I think that he shot his own legacy in the foot. I think that, at this juncture, he is un-responsive and DOA.

The bailout is a farce and should not happen. Let the execs and the companies they ran take their lumps!

Common sense is something that has been missing from the American political scene for some time now!

Enough for politics! Let's move on to hypermiling!

Hi Jstol3:

___For a person with that kind of potential power, thank you for hypermiling! About the only sane thing I have heard from this Administration in a long time was your post.

___Thank you and good Luck

___Wayne

I don't think he meant that literally.

Heh, you *think* you have a direct line by emailing anything
to whitehouse.gov. Nice illusion, isn't it? Any guesses as
to the volume of mail that goes through such destinations and
gets sent straight to /dev/null per hour?
.
_H*

Bush is trying very hard to blame the bailout on greedy Wall Street speculators in the same way he let's the illusion that the war in Iraq is based on 9/11 even though it's his own personal vendetta.

Keep in mind the banks and mortgage lenders were FORCED to accept these toxic loans. Fannie Mae fought against them in 1998. And then later, I think it was in 2004, they lost a suit by the government when they tried to take a loss by writing down these loans. Time has proven them right, but I don't see the government wanting to return the $250 million fine to the shareholders.

A bailout without limits on who can take a mortgage and other loans will just result in more of the same. How can we trust the same people who created the problem to know how to fix it?

The senators from Colorado have said they are receiving tons of emails speaking out against the bailout. They specifically said these aren't your typical form emails, but individual opinions that have more impact on their decisions.

The country is in a mess with a trend towards bailing out those who fail at the expense of those who make good decisions. There doesn't seem to be any place to go with our money except investing in toilet paper which is likely to double in price in the next year. (There is a lot of crap in our economy.)

We have taxation with misrepresentation.

My take on the Bailout is that it reminds me of how long it took to get water to the Superdome during Katrina. There has been a clear failure of leadership again. The housing market problem at the center of this crisis has been a clear bank crisis issue for at least six months. Why didn't they act to resolve this before it got so far out of hand?

One of the main lessons from the Depression is that when the banking system stops functioning very bad things happen to the real economy. It isn't fair to the taxpayer, but sometimes you should do what works best instead of what's right:(--I'm holding my nose and supporting some sort of bail out. That said--I do not support the administration's bid for appropriations without substantial oversight and I don't believe it is necessary to provide the whole sum of $700 billion in the first bailout appropriation.

If you're interested, herehttp://www.bankofengland.co.uk/publications/fsr/2003/fsr15art6.pdf is a non/slightly technical Bank of England article reviewing the effectiveness of different policies during recent world banking crises.

@hobbit
There is probably a law against sending that e-mail to /dev/null since some of it could be threatening, but I doubt the president actually reads it. They probably make some intern do it. Thats how they crush their dreams of changing to world, before they turn them into a washington money grubbing drone.

Don't know if anyone remembers, but GWB stoped using email just before he took office as a number of other politicians do.

Well I wouldn't say he stopped, he just shutdown the backup system that clinton had installed under his administration. So any and all e-mail communications that are supposed to be archived, are now regularly deleted. Another prime example of his pseudo oligarchy. His entire administration is above the law. Nixon 2.0. Next he will be giving the I am not a crook speech.

Hi Koreberg:

___The one thing the Bush-II presidency may be remembered for is the same thing Hoover was remembered for. A Great Depression.

___Think of the shanty towns filled with the destitute in the early 30’s. In 2010, it is blocks upon blocks of empty foreclosures with no one maintaining the homes in question. Let us hope this does not happen to a home near any of us…

___Good Luck

___Wayne

Let us hope this does not happen to a home near any of us…

This is already happening near me. One of the reasons I didn't take a job in PA this year was the fact that I would have sold my home at a huge loss. I live in a phase II of a subdivision. Phase II has nine empty lots that have been vacant since 2005. It has three empty completed homes, two of which are adjacent to my home, and those two have stood empty since last year when I purchased my house. It's a shame we didn't push for more of a discount on our house, as our builder was in the process of going bankrupt at the time of purchase. He didn't care what the house sold for as the bank was seeing all of the profit. The houses have "LOWER PRICE!" signs on them, but they're still priced too high for this market. I'm surprised the owner/builder doesn't just cut his loses and slash the price on them 10k or so. It doesn't help that it's a 40 mile trip to Raleigh and another 10 to Durham.

We’re around to the housing market.

I bought a place 4 years ago. As I recall the bank wanted to loan me up to a high percentage of my net salary. The rational I heard was I had a steady job, been there for many years and I would get increases, bonuses and such and my credit was A O K. The realtors kept pointing me to houses that maxed that out and even above that limit. “It is an investment, the price will always go up and be worth more”, “You can get an interest only loan and refinance when the place has increased in value”. Once I let realtors know what *I* wanted, only one ever called me back.

Everyone talked about me walking out of the closing with cash in my pocket. Sound good? Heck yes! If I was the average person I would have jumped all over the deals they were offering me. I’d get the American dream of living well beyond my means, not have to pay for it until years later and everyone would admire me.

Instead I waited and shopped around for what I considered an affordable home. Not more than I needed but something that was as little as I needed. I wanted a place I could afford even if I had to work at McDonalds... as asst. manager of course! So I bought land that had a house on it not a house that sat on a little land. Only thing I could not get was a fixed mortgage for the 20 year term. All anyone offered was the balloon mortgage.

I do not mean to insult anyone whose house has decreased in value as having made a bad decision. I have simply been unemployed before and wanted to make sure keeping a roof over my head was first priority. The lower that mortgage payment is the easier it is to scrape it together doing whatever you can. Be it ever so humble, it’s cheap and it’s mine… at least until the re-fi comes around.

Hi Ophblance:

___I am sorry to hear about the homes in your sub. Let us hope things improve to move those lots and homes soon enough.

___WoodyWoodchuck, thank you for not caving to the temptation. I have to believe that everyone’s home has fallen in value over the last year and a half inlcuding my own that is down about $50K so far. By buying within your means early on, you did exactly the right thing!

___Good Luck

___Wayne

What's sad about it is that the guy who owns them has issues with his kidneys, and isn't likely destined for this world too much longer. He was hoping to leave his wife in a position where she'd never have to work when he passed. He actually hates building homes and prefers building decks, garages, and such. There's more profit margin in that (or so he's said a few times). His builder (the person who built most of the houses in the development) got caught up in the "build! build! build!" frenzy and over extended himself.

Now that being said, the guy can't stand most of us living there. We're all from PA (at least four families... and it's only about 60 homes), NJ, and parts north. We're ruining the south for these southerners ;). From talking to the folks in the cul de sac, he's fine to deal with up to the day of sale, them after you get quite the cold shoulder (especially us northerners).

@xcel

Actually my house has gone up in value, there wasn't much of a bubble in my area. Although now houses will sit longer due to the mortgage thing so I could be looking at a decrease soon.

I'm pushing my boundaries a bit with the house I purchased a couple of years ago, but I skipped over the 80/20 thing and the FHA for my first house and went straight to a single mortgage. It's a high payment, but I afforded it by my lonesome for a year before getting married. My (then) fiancee wanted me to get something even more expensive with her cosigning but since I hadn't even proposed yet I wasn't wanting to do that. Besides, should she decide she really wants to stay home to take care of the child after she is born, she should have that option.

I can't say it is easy to afford what I have, but neither is it overly taxing. I'm within my means and I intend to stay that way.

The other day, I read the Wikapedia article on the Vietnam War....in todays dollars - it cost the US 700 billion - ironic?

My old shack is about to pay off. Then its on to rebuilding it,,, or so the wife thinks,,, LMAO.

I don't give a darn about the bankers loosing there butts or the folks loosing there homes. Both party's made huge mistakes. Not my problem.

Ive had the big home's and the county club and all the trappings that goes with it. It's very over rated and leads to a lot of shallowness.

Im not for the bailout at all. And would be OK if we have a great depression again. Wouldn't like it,, but we would get through.

I honestly think it's all way over hyped. The left coast which is always in trouble money wise. Then the right coast that functions on double inflation tactics, FL and AZ. Michigan has been in trouble for years. Stemming back to the fact they can't build a car worth driving. Folks in this part of the country are ass holes and elbows. Everybody that wants to work is working. Sure new car sales and home sales have slowed some and Best Buy is slow. It's just a small reset here. I or anybody I know face to face has not taken a bad hit to date in our investments. The market and housing will come back. Its time for the hard reset.

We as a country have been living on the bleeding edge of collapse for a long time. Looks like it is here........ Now its time to see what we are really made of. My fear is we have turned into a bunch of do nothing, complaining over educated, entitled whine bag pussy's. I hope I'm proven wrong in spades!