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Hyper-miling has even been embraced by Top Gear's Jeremy Clarkson, who notably employed the "New York taxi driver trick" of urinating into a container to avoid wasting precious petrol by restarting the engine during an attempt to make a round trip from London to Edinburgh in an Audi on a single tank. (http://www.theage.com.au/national/driving-a-bargain-isnt-hard-for-motorists-addicted-to-hypermiling-20080822-40e8.html?page=-1)

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/501/wrhtnat_petrol-420x0.jpgJewel Topsfield - www.theage.com.au (http://www.theage.com.au) - Aug 23, 2008

I tried Jeremy Clarkson's "NYC taxi driver trick" and while doing it, my HM suffers to the point it's best to just pull into the rest stop. :o -- Ed.

IMPLAUSIBLE as it sounds, Helen and John Taylor (http://www.shell.com/home/Framework?siteId=hongkong-en&FC2=/hongkong-en/html/iwgen/zzz_lhn.html&FC3=/hongkong-en/tailored/shell_for_motorists/fuels/fuel_economy_pkg/fueleconomy_amazing_pics_ga_2203.html) (pictured) this year drove their Peugeot 308 from Melbourne to Canberra on less than half a tank of petrol.

The Rosebud couple (http://www.fuelacademy.com/helen_and_john_taylor.html), who hold 37 fuel economy world driving records, used just 28.7 litres of diesel on the 774-kilometre trek, averaging just 3.7 litres per 100 kilometres.

They attribute their extraordinary feat to a set of techniques used to maximise fuel economy, often referred to as "hypermiling" or "eco-driving". The craze is growing in popularity in the US and Britain as fuel prices continue to soar.… http://www.theage.com.au/national/driving-a-bargain-isnt-hard-for-motorists-addicted-to-hypermiling-20080822-40e8.html?page=-1

Hm. Coming here for a world record? I know a few people who could "school" them if their record is 64mpg from a diesel. :p

Seriously though, I'm glad to see more positive exposure. :)

I wish the article allowed comments...would love for this couple to visit us.

it was going along quite swimmingly until somehow the AAA accusations appeared. drat.

and yes, it would be nice to get ahold of them for some competitions. then we could REALLY have some world records.

Hm. Coming here for a world record? I know a few people who could "school" them if their record is 64mpg from a diesel.

Ahem. http://www.cleanmpg.com/garage/images/961.png ;)

Ahem. http://www.cleanmpg.com/garage/images/961.png ;)

EXACTLY!!! :D

Did they did it again ?

Denis.

Couple travels around Australia and gets 75 mpg in a standard Peugeot 308
(http://www.autobloggreen.com/tag/john-helen-taylor/) : Posted Mar 9th 2008 at 3:40PM by Xavier Navarro

When you hear about a "3-liter car," what do you think of? For this story, think not of a car with a 3-liter engine but one that uses 3.13 liters of fuel per 100 km. That's 75 miles per gallon (U.S.) we're talking about a simple Peugeot 308...

Denis,

Thank you for the related link! :)

I had a cousin that traveled a lot, and up until he had to stop his car very fast, in mid stream, with both hands on the wheel, he used to do the taxi driver stunt, not to save gas, but to get places as quick as possible. On a hot day, his car still has a peculiar odor when you first climb in. Now, there is something right up the AAA's alley (so to speak).

Your cousin has a talent I don't but afraid I can't ask for advise here. :o

I just read this part "The couple, who fly to the US tomorrow to attempt a Guinness world record in fuel economy, say hypermiling is addictive."

So, has Wayne's, (or anybody's) efforts been relayed to Guinness?

One of the best articles I have read thus far, bar the little snipet culled about the "Dangers." Well, if they do set a new "world record" in fuel economy, Wayne is going to have to show Guiness just how it's REALLY done :p

While there is no comment section, there is an e-mail at the bottom right. Here is what I sent them:
Hi,
Your story contained a couple of grevious errors:

First, running stop signs and tailgating other vehicles is rampant in the United States. These poor habits have been in place for many decades (well before the advent of Hypermiling). If you ask someone who just ran a red light here, what Hypermiling is, you'd most likely draw a complete blank. On the other hand, if you ask a more responsible driver the same question, chances are they belong to CleanMPG.com. Since Hypermiling was coined by Wayne Gerdes, he actually has say in what is and is not a hypermiling technique. Why don't you call him prior to your next gaffe?

Second, no driver was fined for going 15 km below the limit. On a sparsely travelled weekend night, a gentleman was stopped because he was clocked at only 50 MPH in a 65 MPH zone. The suspicion was that he had been drinking, as that is a common trait of drunk drivers. Alas, he had not been drinking, but was just trying to save a little gas in his Honda Insight Hybrid automobile. Notice that there is no longer any "minimum" speed law in Maryland. It is left up to the policeman to determine if a car is going so slow as to be an impediment to traffic. Obviously, this is a subjective law, one which the citizen has no idea of the boundary, nor does the policeman. However, this gent was holding up no one's progress. So, the policeman in his shamed state, issued a warning (and still did not state what would have been too slow, because he pulled the car over on suspicion of drunken driving)

No fine was levied, no ticket was issued. That's understandable, because a judge would have thrown it out immediately. It did not meet the "standard" test because no one was being delayed - traffic was light - the gent was driving in the "slow" lane of an 8 lane highway.

Your story got this all wrong.

Kent W. Johnson

What "world record" are they going for.

Hi Groar:

___I think we could help the Taylor’s come up to CleanMPG standards :)

http://www.cleanmpg.com/garage/images/639.png
http://www.cleanmpg.com/garage/images/609.png
http://www.cleanmpg.com/garage/images/478.png
http://www.cleanmpg.com/garage/images/2176.png
http://www.cleanmpg.com/garage/images/1710.png

___Jud, I suspect they are driving the Audi Q5 as they already have a good working relationship with VW/Audi.

___Good Luck

___Wayne

so my question is, if they are claiming a world record, yet are not doing more than a lot of members here, how valid is that? and what is the organization that determines if it's a world record? what about the stuff we did in indiana this summer?

i am all for their doing super mileage, but there has to be a standard someplace, and i have to think it's been set on this forum.

wayne, do you plan to meet and/or talk to them?

I think Wayne would have had an excellent shot of going around the world on the least amount of fuel had that venture happened this year. ;)

Hi Laurie:

___I will be calling Audi of America on Monday. Jud and I wrote to Audi – Germany right after he saw the Q5 and A4 3.0L TDI's in San Francisco but we never heard anything back. I can almost bet they are working with Audi as it only makes sense.

___As for meeting up with them, the last time they crossed through Detroit in a VW FSI IIRC, they used I-80 and I would love to meet up with them.

___As for their records, when you view their around the world drive at 52 mpg, 10 CleanMPG members crossed the US in the middle of winter with 3 + in the hybrids and iCDTi plus 1/3 of the distance at post speed limit speeds blew that number out of the water. Chicago to NY, Trip around Texas, Tour of Illinois, hundreds of Insight trips around the country, any number of FE challenges including Prius Marathon, Insight Marathon, Tour De Sol, HF 2006, 7 and 8, Lacey, WA., World FE Championships completely smashes anything the Taylors have ever experienced. They are just light on the throttle drivers. I did see a pic of them traveling across Europe and they were between the limits in a Ridge Ride as expected.

___Mainly, you can bet the house that they have snooped here for more than a few hours as they are starting to pick it up a bit in the last year. There is only one group of drivers anywhere that can teach them how to do it right and you happen to be one of them ;)

___I want to add that at least 1,000 members of CleanMPG could break anything the Taylor's have put up on any continent and in any terrain because it is what we do every day just driving back and forth to work or around town with not so fuel effcient automobiles.

___Good Luck

___Wayne

I guess the question is how you get Guiness to publish an FE record?

Of the 8 or 9 HM points on their list, they missed a very important one. That is, avoiding the area around the Triple Arrrgh offices so that you don't get BS, bad stuff, on your tires that will ruin your MPG's, haha.

Otherwise, at least the word has gotten around, or may have already been around anyway, which is very good.

And seriously, doesn't AAA have something important and useful to do?

Sounds like Americans here at cleanmpg can whip them hands down.

Faithful and True.

There's something about this that just seems way off-base to me. This couple is interested in saving fuel, right? So they're going to fly to the US (burning quite a bit of jet fuel), and enter into a competition in which it appears they'll be driving around not to get to some place where they want/need to go, but just to show how little fuel they can use while driving? Seems to me they could save far more by not doing any of this...

Or to put it another way, the real way to win a fuel-economy contest is not to enter :-)

There's something about this that just seems way off-base to me. This couple is interested in saving fuel, right? So they're going to fly to the US (burning quite a bit of jet fuel), and enter into a competition in which it appears they'll be driving around not to get to some place where they want/need to go, but just to show how little fuel they can use while driving? Seems to me they could save far more by not doing any of this...

Or to put it another way, the real way to win a fuel-economy contest is not to enter :-)So you never fly?

It's kind of off base you post non-postive stuff the vast majority of the time....and what's really strange is you not talking about your Insight in the Daily Grind - very unusual for an Insight driver - last weekend a guy was delighted to get a MIMA demo from me so he would know what his Insight will do when MIMA is installed.

It's going to be ironic if you have a problem being called out like you just did with this couple.

Be a bit more upbeat please.

I have almost perfected the NYCTDT? in 4 years as a messenger :p I never litter though i always recyle :p

That article was well-written. Nice to see some positive exposure...sure wish the AAA would've gotten onboard.

So you never fly?

It's kind of off base you post non-postive stuff the vast majority of the time....and what's really strange is you not talking about your Insight in the Daily Grind - very unusual for an Insight driver - last weekend a guy was delighted to get a MIMA demo from me so he would know what his will do.

It's going to be ironic if you have a problem being called out like you just did with this couple.

Be a bit more upbeat please.


I'd like to add something, DeltaFlyer, if I may. I'm not a frequent flyer but I do have family that live in the Seattle area. I do have some frequent flyer miles I can use if anything happens to grandma. If I were to drive nonstop from Little Rock to Seattle I could probably make it in 36 hours depending on road conditions and the route that I take (speed limits). If you do the math, I'd come out paying more on gas than I would if I'd paid for my ticket in advance if I don't break even. Therefore in some cases it is more eco-friendly to fly instead of drive.

So you never fly?

Haven't in several years. Just can't see burning 7-8 gph to go get a $100 hamburger somewhere. One of these days I may get back into soaring, or buy one of of the electric motor gliders, or maybe take up parasailing, but right now I have too few hours...

As for flying commercial, I don't if I can possibly avoid it. However, you seem to have missed my point. I'm not saying that people shouldn't fly places, or even that this couple shouldn't fly to the US for a vacation if they like. It's just the basic absurdity of burn a lot of fuel to show how little you can use.

It's kind of off base you post non-postive stuff the vast majority of the time...

Just find some positive stuff for me to post about.

..and what's really strange is you not talking about your Insight in the Daily Grind - very unusual for an Insight driver...

But that's just me. I don't see the point of going on about the details of everyday life, and to me the Insight is everyday life.

Hi James:

___If we did not have competitions, many would not be receiving 70 and 100 + from their Prius and Insight’s on the highway let alone 50 + from their Ford Ranger P/U’s. I do not know your FE but I suspect it is not nearly as good as it could be? If not, read, learn, place into practice what has been learned at comps across the USA and do so immediately. Anything less is downright unpatriotic.

___Good Luck

___Wayne

jamesqf:
Haven't in several years. Just can't see burning 7-8 gph to go get a $100 hamburger somewhere....I'm not saying that people shouldn't fly places, or even that this couple shouldn't fly to the US for a vacation if they like. It's just the basic absurdity of burn a lot of fuel to show how little you can use.Flying to get a hamburger - you must be kidding.

Please give this couple half a break - they live in Australia. Only 21 million live down under in the middle of the ocean. If they lived in America, it would be more practicle for them to drive - like Wayne ;)

Just find some positive stuff for me to post about.It's there, but you choose to ignore them....News Articles about advances in PHEVs, Honda's next hybrids, ventures T. Boone Pickens is undertaking, more. Add to that the countless improvements members have made on their fuel economy, sharing their hints....it's helped me improve my morning commute 100%. You choose to opt out of the Daily Grind and postive stories.
But that's just me. I don't see the point of going on about the details of everyday life, and to me the Insight is everyday life.None of the other Insight drivers here consider it a bore to drive, nor have the dozen or so that have taken mine for a spin. For hypermilers, any car can be interesting when it comes to improving your ride. It like others that discuss their golf game.

The reason for CleanMPG is to be a hypermiler-friendly site to current and future hypermilers. To exchange notes, provide encouragement ;) ;) ;) , find out what does and does not work. This is the core of CleanMPG.

Flying to get a hamburger - you must be kidding.

Not at all: it's a commonplace in flying circles. You've got a plane, and you want to fly it on a fine Sunday morning. But the problem with most airports is that they're located quite a ways from anywhere else, so you fly to airport X, grab a hamburger in the coffee shop, and then fly home. Figure the typical light plane burns about 8 gph, and there's your $100 hamburger.

Please give this couple half a break - they live in Australia.

And? It seems as though you're still missing the point. So you can get from A to B using very little gas, which is a good thing if you need to get from A to B. But if your only reason for going is to show how little gas you can use, then what's the point? It'd be like me doing circuits of Washoe Lake (pretty flat 2 lane roads with few stops, where I can cruise for long stretches at 125 mpg or so) just to raise my mpg display.

None of the other Insight drivers here consider it a bore to drive, nor have the dozen or so that have taken mine for a spin. For hypermilers, any car can be interesting when it comes to improving your ride. It like others that discuss their golf game.

Nor do I consider my Insight a bore to drive. Though I do think that any driving which doesn't involve winding roads taken at a good speed has a pretty high boredom quotient, the Insight makes it less boring than most cars. It's talking about it that I find boring.

Hi James:

___You are the one missing the point here. I can almost guarantee that the 2.0L Jetta TDI the Taylor’s will be driving around the US will pull into the 80’s and with that, there will be a stampede for them vs. the junk FE capable vehicles everyone else is selling here in the US. By consuming a few hundred gallons, they will save the US and the world a few million over the longer term.

___Without the competitions, CleanMPG would not be reaching as many as it has and possibly not even exist! I have consumed a few hundred unnecessary gallons and the results of the savings are posted on the Forum banner each and every refresh.

___Good Luck

___Wayne

James,

Your previous implication John & Helen Taylor fly just to get a $100 hamburger is absurd. I might believe someone from Hollywood like John Travolta would do that but they hardly fit with that group, nor would they risk making such a frivious flight to undermine their careers.

The Taylors live in Austrailia - 21 million people. Wayne lives in Chicago....over 300 million in the US plus another 30 million Canadians nearby. Wayne does not have to fly as much. Even with businesses cutting back, they fly a lot more. By the way, the last year or so you would be hard-pressed to find an empty seat on any flight...I'd bet fuel economy per passenger would be around 70mpg.

I'm sure you are a fair person, so I'm wondering about your silence on John Travolta flying his own 707 or this past week the video we linked of Bob Lutz, who flys his own German jet fighter?

James, the Taylors are getting the word out there is a better way to drive. When people do, that will more than make up for their traveling....are you suggesting they just stay home and make what they do a virtual secret?

While 70.7 lifetime mpg on an Insight is good, discussing it with others here can easily improve it...my tanks over the years have improved from 60mpg to 92mpg in the summertime...never would have done it without talking to others. You do talk quite a bit, and it's rather negative. Sorry, I don't think being cynical is cool - doing something is cool. That would include the Taylors. Just a sample of people in history with a lot of detractors.

Lincoln
Churchill
Martin Luther King Jr
Wright Brothers
Robert H Goddard
Bill Gates (sorry hobbit!)Who is remembered more? Is it the writers that said they would never get anything done?

Speaking of contributions, what's yours?

Not at all: it's a commonplace in flying circles. You've got a plane, and you want to fly it on a fine Sunday morning. But the problem with most airports is that they're located quite a ways from anywhere else, so you fly to airport X, grab a hamburger in the coffee shop, and then fly home. Figure the typical light plane burns about 8 gph, and there's your $100 hamburger.

I knew about this, and thanks for posting it (even though it is completely irrelevant to what this couple is doing). It made me think: the $100 hamburger is really no different from someone burning gas to drive to the mountains, strapping skis or snowboard on his feet, and going to play in the snow (perhaps using a lift which runs on electricity)? Or someone strapping a rowing shell onto their car and going to race at a regatta? Or someone towing a bass boat to a river and entering a tournament, whizzing around at 60+ mph with their 250hp outboard (OK, the 60+ mph is illegal and dangerous on our river) to catch fish that they don't even eat. These are entertainment, an important part of life, as distinct from work, school, or shopping related travel. Who are you or I to say that others should not do these things? When gas gets expensive enough they will cut back.

And? It seems as though you're still missing the point. So you can get from A to B using very little gas, which is a good thing if you need to get from A to B. But if your only reason for going is to show how little gas you can use, then what's the point? It'd be like me doing circuits of Washoe Lake (pretty flat 2 lane roads with few stops, where I can cruise for long stretches at 125 mpg or so) just to raise my mpg display.

The difference is that doing it in a public way as an "event" encourages others to try it as well. You driving at 125mpg and not communicating that would not accomplish this end.

Nor do I consider my Insight a bore to drive. Though I do think that any driving which doesn't involve winding roads taken at a good speed has a pretty high boredom quotient, the Insight makes it less boring than most cars. It's talking about it that I find boring.

Well talking about saving fuel is what this site is about. Sorry that bores you. Personally, I used to love whizzing around corners on cars and bikes but now find driving for mpg immensely more entertaining.

Your previous implication John & Helen Taylor fly just to get a $100 hamburger is absurd.

When did I imply that? I don't in fact think there was any mention of them flying at all (other than as commercial passengers). I was using a simile, something I hoped would be familiar to readers, to try to get a point across.

The Taylors live in Austrailia - 21 million people. Wayne lives in Chicago....over 300 million in the US plus another 30 million Canadians nearby. Wayne does not have to fly as much. Even with businesses cutting back, they fly a lot more. By the way, the last year or so you would be hard-pressed to find an empty seat on any flight...I'd bet fuel economy per passenger would be around 70mpg.

And how is this relevant? I don't know, and don't care, about whether the Taylors or Wayne fly in the course of their work, or for vacations, or whatever. What I'm saying is that to fly to the US specifically to drive in a contest to see who can get the best fuel economy is defeating the whole purpose of getting better fuel economy.

I'm sure you are a fair person, so I'm wondering about your silence on John Travolta flying his own 707 or this past week the video we linked of Bob Lutz, who flys his own German jet fighter?

There are some six billion people whom I've never mentioned by name. Why should I single out these two, or even know who they are? I don't recall either of them telling the world about how they get good gas mileage.

James, it appears that you are here just to argue and complain about increasingly inconsequential matters. Do you have anything positive to contribute? If so what?

James, it appears that you are here just to argue and complain about increasingly inconsequential matters. Do you have anything positive to contribute? If so what?James, as said before, you take pains to avoid the numerous upbeat material in both the news and the Daily Grind.


Is your "contibution" here injecting negativity in nearly all your posts, then finding a way to be dismissive no matter how reasonable the reply?

Not impressive.

And? It seems as though you're still missing the point. So you can get from A to B using very little gas, which is a good thing if you need to get from A to B. But if your only reason for going is to show how little gas you can use, then what's the point? It'd be like me doing circuits of Washoe Lake (pretty flat 2 lane roads with few stops, where I can cruise for long stretches at 125 mpg or so) just to raise my mpg display.

I would only partially agree with you there. If I, by burning a gallon or two "unnecessarily" can give a bunch of people(for example just 10) an insight into how they can save a gallon or two themselves, then there is a net savings. If you multiplied that by the thousands or more people that are exposed to it by the power of the internet then my supposed "waste" of that fuel I burned is a moot point. I'm growing very tired of your posting for the apparent purpose of just being a pain in everyones backside. Take that as a warning to shape up or else.

I would only partially agree with you there. If I, by burning a gallon or two "unnecessarily" can give a bunch of people(for example just 10) an insight into how they can save a gallon or two themselves, then there is a net savings. If you multiplied that by the thousands or more people that are exposed to it by the power of the internet then my supposed "waste" of that fuel I burned is a moot point.

Exactly what I was going to reply :)

This is why this forum and other are existing : some people are "loosing" time by managing this forum, or replying to this forum, or doing tests to post results to this forum only to permit other people to improve themselves.

Thanks to all those who are managing, replying or testing to post on this forum.

Have fun,

Denis.

Appreciate your support Denis and want to add it's good to get the perspectives of members outside of North America.

I would only partially agree with you there. If I, by burning a gallon or two "unnecessarily" can give a bunch of people(for example just 10) an insight into how they can save a gallon or two themselves, then there is a net savings. If you multiplied that by the thousands or more people that are exposed to it by the power of the internet then my supposed "waste" of that fuel I burned is a moot point. I'm growing very tired of your posting for the apparent purpose of just being a pain in everyones backside. Take that as a warning to shape up or else.

Let's see, in the competitions I've been a part of, I've used a total of no more than 3 gallons of gas (including warmup and force-charge time), probably only a little over 2. I have easily saved 3x that amount learning what I have from competitions and applying it to my commute. That's direct savings.

I've only ever been personally involved in 2 competitions myself. At the WFEC, my car burned a total of 3.13 gallons. I have since then achieved two 90+mpg tanks and am currently working on a third 90+mpg tank that is currently over 95 mpg. My highest tanks before WFEC were only in the 86 mpg range.