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Are there any plans to start a forum about hypermiling responsibility and safety? Or at least a topic to refer first time users to?

I realize there are some of us with nerves of steel who don't care about people flipping us the bird, or worse, grabbing for loaded guns:eek:, but I think it's important to at least give new hypermilers a heads up about the dilemmas they may face on the road.

There are also a lot of safety issues pointed out by the AAA in their critique of "extreme hypermilers". And some of us risk causing damage to the transmission and other systems in the car (hypermilers driving certain non-hybrid vehicles). I think the AAA is wrong to characterize all of us as unsafe drivers, but I feel like we should respond to the criticism - not just by writing rebuttals and commenting on anti-hypermiling articles on the Web, but by being proactive in making new hypermilers aware of any safety/economic/ethical issues IMMEDIATELY when they join the forums at CleanMPG.

I'm not for making any clear-cut rules, because the Highway Patrol does that enough already. I do think safety should be our #1 concern, so a few suggestions/guidelines may be in order. Perhaps we could have a think tank forum about responsibility and safety.

I would like to get a moderator's opinion on this, if possible.

Hi Ascribe:

___AAA got what right? FAS'ing at lights or on the move? No. Tire Pressures? No. Oil level's? No. Tips for increasing FE? No. Any hypermiler between the PSL no matter what he or she is doing is far safer than anyone over it, period.

___46 deaths a day are caused by speeding and that alone is the number one problem let alone the billions of gallons of fuel we waste on a yearly basis. What is ethical about any of that. 2,900 innocent American’s and 4,000 plus soldiers are dead because of our addiction to oil. Maybe the AAA should ethics that. I hope they sleep good at night knowing they are part of the problem vs. the solution.

___Finally ethics? The only reason the AAA decided we were the target is so they could sell no longer needed subscriptions. Do you really think they (the entity known as the AAA) give a rats @$$ about you, I or anyone else? What about my offer to take them out on a hypermiling clinic? Not a chance in hell as they are only concerned with their own bottom line and the status quo.

___If the heat is ever turned up on this planet or peak oil rears its ugly head (both have in fact), most will look back and say WTF did we do while listening to the AAA…

___We as part of the hypermiling community are part of the solution and to hell with any of the SOB’s that think otherwise.

___Good Luck

___Wayne

Considering that the major article on this site (how to beat the EPA) details the technical caveats and safety concerns with hypermiling techniques, and considering that we discuss them day in and day out, an entire subforum dedicated to ethics and safety would be overkill and almost purely reactionary (which I thought was what we were trying to avoid).

Perhaps a sticky or an article with that specific focus would be prudent, but not an entire subforum for what we already talk about.

Considering that the major article on this site (how to beat the EPA) details the technical caveats and safety concerns with hypermiling techniques, and considering that we discuss them day in and day out, an entire subforum dedicated to ethics and safety would be overkill and almost purely reactionary (which I thought was what we were trying to avoid).

Perhaps a sticky or an article with that specific focus would be prudent, but not an entire subforum for what we already talk about.

I created a thread (12761) which was basically a Welcome to CleanMPG post, give a link to all the important threads, and so on...Perhaps I could edit that accordingly?

Wayne:

I am just as much against terrorism and global warming. I think the AAA's alarm is at best unwarranted and at worst, as you said, an attempt to keep its members stuck on stupid. Of course 99% of their stuff on hypermiling is wrong. I probably shouldn't have even mentioned them in my first post. I know all they've done to try to discredit us as a community.

However, based on some of my early experiences trying to hypermile, I can at least say that I understand the fears of most people about trying out certain advanced hypermiling techniques like FAS and P&G - or worse, the unsanctioned D-FAS. There are dangers involved when you're inexperienced in the field of hypermiling.

Especially younger people need to take greater caution when first learning to hypermile. Most kids today don't know how a car works anyway.

I was hoping for:

-----A strong warning against drafting, even distance drafting, especially for long distances - on the green block to the left with the links to everything on the site. This is the ONLY point the AAA had that made any good sense to me.

::While doing this on a vacation once I nearly rammed into an 18 wheeler on the interstate because of a traffic jam caused by a burning car. The scary thing is I was more than 100 feet behind the truck with plenty of braking distance! I was simply caught unaware because I was focusing on keeping a constant distance between myself and the truck while minimizing my acceleration (as sudden acceleration decreases FE).

::I should mention this as well ... staring at an unmoving object for several minutes at a time is a common trick used by hypnotists to draw people into a trance!!!

-----An urgent caution about the sudden loss of power steering & braking power that occurs during FAS. In some cars this occurs after just one pump of the brakes.

::A scary experience ... While experimenting with hypermiling techniques (and not really knowing what I was doing - this was before I joined the site) I FASed while driving down a mountain once. I thought I could handle it but the situation quickly got out of hand.

-----A reminder to be courteous to other drivers.

I guess I am thinking more of an article than anything else. Just something to go in a place where new visitors and journalists/media can see it. If we are going to prove to the media that the AAA was wrong about us, we have to put the proof right in front of their faces. The media has a short attention span.

I created a thread (12761) which was basically a Welcome to CleanMPG post, give a link to all the important threads, and so on...Perhaps I could edit that accordingly?

That would be nice. Hopefully some new hypermilers could avoid some of the mistakes I made early on that could have cost me my life.

Like I said, the cautions should be against:

Drafting, regardless of distance, because focusing on the rig in front of you too much can cause you to slip into a trance-like state - so that even if you're 100 feet back you still may be unaware of how quickly it is stopping to avoid an unseen hazard ahead. Any drafting close in or distance, especially over long distances, can be dangerous. I suggest that we put up a suggestion to members who want to distance draft that it is a good idea to switch targets, or to give it a rest every few minutes or so and back off.

I originally thought distance drafting would be safer, but it isn't. To keep the slight benefit of a distance draft you have to focus on keeping a constant distance of about 80-100 ft behind the truck, and in doing that you risk hypnotizing yourself from your intense concentration.

Not only that but if you have a crosswind there may be no benefit at all in drafting a truck.

Forced Auto Stop in hazardous conditions, because any hypermiler must be aware of how their vehicle will behave with all the assists off.

Since we are the authority on hypermiling, it's important to emphasize the safety aspects as much as we can ... because you can't collect the gas savings if you're dead.

It would be great if these cautions could be displayed in a prominent manner on the home page.