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When I first got this car a month ago, I was barely getting 18 mpg in the city. Lately I've increased my city FE to about 21~22 mpg, and recently took a trip that was about 50% highway 50% city and I hit 25 mpg. My goal is to hit 25 mpg in the city. So far I've been trying P&G (not sure if I'm doing it right though), using AC less, accelerating more slowly, coasting in N, coasting to red lights, etc. Can ya'll suggest other things? I want to try FAS, DWB, etc., but I dont know how to do these or if my car can do them. My car is an automatic 4-cylinder.

Any tips would be greatly appreciated!

Wow, 35.2?! Was it mostly city or highway?? My tires are at sidewall max (44 PSI). What do you mean minimize cold starts? Like let the car run for a minute before driving? There are only a few stoplights in town that are worth turning the engine off.

FAS shouldn't be done with an automatic unless your manual says so (which i doubt, because i have 2 autoyotas here that can't). And don't let your car run before driving, which is unnecessary idling-i think he basically means making longer trips so you don't have a cold engine as often.

Hello and welcome to the club.

You should start by knowing your car’s EPA rating located at FuelEconomy.gov (http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/findacar.htm) and make sure to read the article “Beating the EPA” (http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1510).

Make sure you air your tires up to the maximum pressure indicated on the tire’s sidewall.

Also, consider purchasing a ScanGaugeII (http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?p=103426). It is an invaluable source of information and will quickly pay for itself in fuel savings.

However, please be careful as hypermiling is addictive. :)

What do you mean minimize cold starts?

I think he means "link trips together"--so if you're going to the grocery store, and going to pick up dry cleaning, and taking a package to the mail box, try doing that all in one trip, instead of mailing the package first thing in the morning, then picking up the dry cleaning at lunch, and then grocery shopping at night.

It sounds like you're making decent progress. Perhaps you can try DWB (Driving With Buffers or Driving Without Brakes; I prefer to think of it as "Driving As If You Didn't Have Brakes") and see what kind of MPG you can pull from that technique.

-soD

Never let your car idle for more than 30 seconds cold start!
Once the engine is turning its pretty much good to go.

So when coasting should I put my car in N or leave it in D?

It depends on what you are trying to do.

If you want to maintain speed put it in N.
If you want to engine break to a light or slow down for a turn use D.

The fuel cut off for the engine is usually around 1300 and more RPM.
As long as your foot is off the gas.

Wait what? What's the difference between maintaining speed and "engine breaking" or going around a corner? Sorry, I'm lost lol.

if you want to coast for a long time, keep it in neutral, if you want your car to slow down b/c you are on a hill with a stoplight coming up or just a stoplight, (no hill) you should keep it in drive to avoid using the brake. this will induce engine braking where the fuel cuts off the fuel instead of you having to use your brakes and have the engine continue to supply fuel.

make sure your car is maintained well, regular oil changes, spark plugs, wires, and also use synthetic oil. this will give you a significant increase, I get over 30 mpg in the city with an auto v6 rated at 19/27, you should be able to do that no problem. good luck!

Wait what? What's the difference between maintaining speed and "engine breaking" or going around a corner? Sorry, I'm lost lol.

N and D to leave in one or the other is very... Dependent on whats going on.

For example for my particular On ramp from my work;
45 MPH road to a little bit downhill to the start of the ramp,
into a downhill spiral (20 MPH advised *yellow sign*) for 495 and after that its a bit of a uphill climb to accelerate.

I used to leave my Stick in D for the entire spiral and lightly throttle through the spiral down.
Then I realized that was a bit inefficient since I was just trying to maintain speed through the turn.

D was the cause of me throttling through the spiral.
Then I tried the same turn in N... it was beautiful.

I stayed at 40ish MPH through the turn and switch to D when I came out've it.
I saved a little a bit of gas there.

Like I said D vs N coasting is very very situational and requires a bit of thought.
If you are trying to maintain speed on the downhill N is the way to go.
If you are preparing to stop... D is better since most cars have fuel shut off.
Fuel shut off ONLY happens about 1300 RPM and higher in my car (About 35MPH and higher).

Or it if you think the Time spent switching between from D to N and back to D is not worth it, keeping in D is probably better Short downhill (50 - 100ish feet) followed by uphill climb. Especially the case when you are at a speed you need to rev match.

cameron-

I can't help but think that there is something wrong with your car mechanically. The EPA lists the original window sticker at 23/30, and the average based on 18 owners using the site's mileage logs is at 27. So I'm with JusBringIt, I think it needs a peek under the hood.

Well that's the problem, I've had it looked at twice. I replaced the spark plugs/wires, air filter, oil, pumped up my tires, etc etc. When I first got the car I only got 18 mpg, two tanks in a row. Since I've been coming here, I've gotten that up to about 22 mpg. What all could be wrong with my car? Dirty o2 sensor or brake drag or something? Could getting my tires aligned/balanced help?

I will take the D vs. N stuff to heart and learn when to use each.

One quick question - in my car I have a lot of electronic devices. Here's the list:

- 800 watt Sony Xplod Amp
- 2 12" subs (running off that amp)
- Ipod charger
- GPS charger

How much do these effect my FE? I know the subs/amp add weight, which slightly effects my FE. But overall how much do those hurt?

Also, in a car like mine (automatic), is it possible to turn the car off and coast and then turn it back on without having to stop, put it in park, and then turn the key to start? I've been uneasy about trying anything stopping my engine because I dont want to mess it up.

You can check for brake drag by putting a finger on your brake rotors. If one is hotter than the rest, that one is dragging. It is normal for the fronts to be warmer than the rears, as the brakes do more work.

Be careful, though, as sometimes the rotors can be very hot indeed! (If you have an infrared thermometer, you can use that instead.)

If you coast to a stop rather than braking to a stop, your brakes should be relatively cool (unless you've been using them a lot right before that). That will help show a dragging brake more easily.

A dying O2 sensor can cost you significant mileage as well. If your alignment is really off, it will kill the tires relatively quickly, and also hurt FE. If it's off a little bit, that shouldn't hurt things too much.

...No idea on the re-starting. I know that many cars with auto trans are very peculiar about starting...

-soD

I would replace all O2 sensors, they have a habit of causing reduced mileage. I should have noted that earlier, but I can almost guarantee that's your culprit.

How much are they? And could I replace it myself?

$140 for front and rear o2 sensors?! Geeze. I'm gonna look and see if maybe they're dirty or something so I dont waste money if they're fine.

Is it possible to clean them myself?

I have a 97 Camry 4cyl. auto. Before I found CleanMPG.com I was getting 23-24 mpg in mostly city driving. My first Hypermiling tank was 31mpg, 2nd tk-33mpg, 3rd-37mpg, and my last tank was 39.60 mpg. My first 600 mile tank! I would suggest learning all you can from the wealth of info the members here have, CleanMPG.com is the gold standard for fuel economy. Here are some things that have helped me. Increased tire psi to max sidewall. Keep RPM's under 2200. Fake shift to get into higher gear sooner. I use NICE-ON a lot. FASing not much, owners manual says flat towing recommended only short distance at low speed, so I limit FASing to be safe. P & G in city. DWL. DWB. Time traffic lights. When stopped at a light under 15 sec I idle in neutral, if longer I stop engine. I found a route to work that was only a little farther but increased FE about 6MPG more. Scanguage a must. Very additive though. Best of Luck.

What are fake shift, NICE-ON, DWL, DWB? Can someone explain these?

Also did anyone see my question about the electronics in my car? Could those be affecting anything?

Thanks for all the help so far guys.

What are fake shift, NICE-ON, DWL, DWB? Can someone explain these?

Also did anyone see my question about the electronics in my car? Could those be affecting anything?

Thanks for all the help so far guys.

The current draw of the stereo is going to depend on the volume that you're playing the music, but its unlikely that its going to draw as much as, say, A/C or the headlights even when cranked. But it would act in the same way, and rob you of some FE to some extent.

The added weight is also going to effect the performance, and I actually removed my sub box to save the 100lbs or whatever it was.

But even with both of those factors combined you should still be getting better than what you're getting IMO

BTW... You can usually turn on the car in Neutral as well as Park.
So while coasting you can turn it on in Neutral.

HOWEVER! Since you have a automatic tranny you should NOT Turn off the car while coasting.

There is usually a lubricating pump in the tranny that only works while the ICE is on.
So just pop it in neutral to coast and leave the engine on.

What are fake shift, NICE-ON, DWL , DWB ? Can someone explain these?

What are fake shift, NICE-ON, DWL , DWB ? Can someone explain these?

Fake shift - I do believe this is a technique developed for use with the Ford Escape Hybrid. But, I think it involves getting up to speed and then releasing the gas pedal slightly which will sometimes cause the automatic transmission to shift up, say, from 3rd to 4th. Generally speaking, the higher the gear the better the gas mileage. This is why manual transmission is highly preferred for gas mileage - you can always force the car to operate in whatever gear you choose whenever you want.

NICE-On (neutral internal combustion engine - On) - This is basically when you coast in neutral with the engine running. This method allows for longer coasting compared to coasting in gear (or "D" for automatics.) This is also the preferred method for P&G with an automatic transmission due to the fact that it won't harm your transmission like a FAS would. (fyi, FAS is coasting in neutral with the engine OFF - generally speaking, don't do this in an auto)

DWL (driving with load) - It means you keep the gas pedal in one place starting at the bottom of a hill and keep it there as you go up the hill and then back down. Obviously your speed will drop as you reach the top of the hill but it's more efficient to drive over hills this way than to maintian speed all the way over. Gravity will help you get back up to speed on the way back down the hill.

DWB (driving without brakes) - You pretend you have no brakes. It means you now need to start coasting waaaay before the point where you want to eventually be stopped. For example, a stop sign is ahead - instead of giving the car gas up to the stop sign and slamming on the brakes right before it (wasting gas) you alternatively let the car slow itself down and start coasting down to the stop sign from very far away. Obviously this is difficult to do in traffic sometimes but if you get the chance, use it! Rule of thumb, if your hitting the brakes, your wasting gas - you're "undoing" the gas you gave the car.

Hope that helps. Don't give up. You will save gas.:)

Remember: Idling (not shutting off) your engine eg. at a traffic light dramatically REDUCES your mileage. Get used to shut off the engine by going into NEUTRAL during the deceleration phase and turn the engine off immediately when stopping. Watch cross traffic in order to be ready for engine start. Do not hit the accelerator when restarting the engine. In city traffic, at least every 7th gallon is being unnecessarily used during traffic stops!
1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - SAVE (automobile engine start consumes as much fuel as 5 seconds idling!!!)
Search for topic 'idling stop' in GOOGLE to get more information.

Remember: Idling (not shutting off) your engine eg. at a traffic light dramatically REDUCES your mileage. Get used to shut off the engine by going into NEUTRAL during the deceleration phase and turn the engine off immediately when stopping. Watch cross traffic in order to be ready for engine start. Do not hit the accelerator when restarting the engine. In city traffic, at least every 7th gallon is being unnecessarily used during traffic stops!
1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - SAVE (automobile engine start consumes as much fuel as 5 seconds idling!!!)
Search for topic 'idling stop' in GOOGLE to get more information.

Savefuel he shouldn't coast with ICE off.
Its an auto.

Savefuel he shouldn't coast with ICE off.
Its an auto.

I think what he meant by "turn the engine off immediately when stopping" was "turn off the engine as soon as you are stopped".

During a typical inner city drive, 15% of the total fuel is burned at standstill!!!
No kidding! If your vehicle engine is not turned off at (traffic) stops you just lower your mileage significantly.
In a study together with TOYOTA, ECCJ (Energy Conservation Center of Japan) recently
proved that starting a 2000cc engine properly (without hitting the accelerator during the starting process) consumes the amount of fuel equal to < 5 seconds of idling.
So, if You are approaching a traffic stop: Go to NEUTRAL and shut off your vehicle engine!
Watch cross traffic in order to be ready for engine start in time.
Each 5 minutes of unnecessary idling reduces your fuel range by one mile!!!

Ah I see...
Just make sure you arent going faster than 20 mph when you turn it off.
Any faster may hurt the tranny while with the pump off.

Also, in a car like mine (automatic), is it possible to turn the car off and coast and then turn it back on without having to stop, put it in park, and then turn the key to start? I've been uneasy about trying anything stopping my engine because I dont want to mess it up.

I'm not an expert, but i'm pretty sure you can cut the engine while rolling to a stop at less than 10mph with no harm, but I wouldn't go any higher than that because it could destroy stuff. I've never started my car when it's moving, but I don't see why I couldn't because I usually stay in and restart in N when stopped at a stop light (since it's closer to the D than P).

edit: whoops, seems I haven't refreshed this thread in a while. or maybe i just missed the other 2 pages...

Took a short road trip (186 miles), got gas cause it was cheap ($3.87), and bam, 28.3 MPG. So then I had a short 50 mile drive home on the highway. I tried my best to coast and stuff and use less A/C, and then I filled up again when I got home to see what kind of mileage I got strictly on the highway - 40 MPG. I'm so happy right now!

Bumpity bump bump!

I guess it got pushed back
Nice Mileage!

40 MPG is not bad at all for your car.
Though I am right behind you with my RAV4 36ish ^^

Yeah, now it's time for me to get my average MPG up.

I think what might've been killing my city mileage was the fact that I mainly drive to and from work (2.2 miles) everyday. There are 2 routes, each one includes at least 2 red lights though (no way around hitting them). On top of that, the lights are too short/hard to time and turn my engine off. So all these things combined are probably what kills my day-to-day city mileage.

Real quick, how much does having your headlights on 24/7 affect FE?

If you FAS, that will cause a 1-2mpg hit since the alternator may work overtime due to the battery being low.

even if you dont fas, it still will have an effect, but it would be a bit less. this would be offset by the benefit of the fAs tho.

How do I do a fas in a 5 spd automatic?

You don't its force auto stop which means you basically turn off the engine.

On an auto That's bad for your tranny.

unless your manual specifies other wise I would not fas with your car. if there is a red light up ahead, and your at 20-25mph or less, then I would do it. the problem is not all the parts get lubricated with the engine off. Oil does stay for a little bit with the engine off, so you could take advantage of this and coast for maybe 1/4 mile.

I dont like turning the engine off while coasting because I love my power brakes after about 4 pumps.

well if your concerned about braking that much, maybe you do it a little too much ;). Just work on that, I find that I never go out of my power brake range, even if I do though I'm usually all set by putting my weight on the brakes...that only happened once going down a curvy mountain road.

On an auto That's bad for your tranny.

That's another reason I dont wanna do it.

Don't forget that you always have your e-brake. If you think you're going to need to break a bunch during a fas and you fear running out of vacuum then you can just use the e-brake for the times when you need to brake just a little.

I thought it was bad for my car since it's an auto? More MPG aren't worth any damage to my car at all.

My car is an auto, what we recommend is that if your manual states that your car can be flat towed, then you can fas, if it says no, "I" say that if it were ME, I would fas below 25 for no more than a 1/4 mile. It's your car. Do what YOU want.

When you are on the open road you want to maintain speed because slowing down means you have you push the accelorator and use more fuel to get back up to speed. So unless you want to slow down dramatically (to stop or maybe to keep from speeding or so you can make a tur n safely) put your car N. Your engine and transmission will still be engaged slowing you down without breaking if you are in Drive. Use drive when you want to slow to a stop and use N to maintain speed. Also many cars have a feature where their fuel ejectors shut off when coasting in drive, I know mine does. A scangauge helps to show this (dont know if you have one). It will read 9999MPGs when ejectors shut off.

I'm not sure if a ScanGauge is worth it or not for me.

Mine paid for itself in about 6 months, a year ago. If you drive more miles, have a less efficient car, or prices are higher, the payoff time will be much shorter. I know points 2 and 3 are true in this case.

Could having one really help me all that much? I just dont wanna shell out $150.

Yeah, now it's time for me to get my average MPG up.

I think what might've been killing my city mileage was the fact that I mainly drive to and from work (2.2 miles) everyday. There are 2 routes, each one includes at least 2 red lights though (no way around hitting them). On top of that, the lights are too short/hard to time and turn my engine off. So all these things combined are probably what kills my day-to-day city mileage.


2.2 miles!?!??!?! RIDE A BIKE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The hills and highway part make it too hard to ride a bike, especially in the Texas heat :/.

The hills and highway part make it too hard to ride a bike, especially in the Texas heat :/.

well if you're looking to make a real difference, don't settle for driving a camry 25 mpg, when a little exercise (i'm talking a 10 minutes bike ride MAX) is all it would take

A lot of times I end up running errands before/after anyways, so it wouldn't work out.

It's going to be difficult to get good gas mileage with an auto tranny over such a short distance. I usually don't start to acheive higher than the EPA mileage until i'm about 2 - 3 miles out in my trip anyway.

The only way you're going to be able to get high numbers on such a short trip is to Fas. You'd have to pulse and glide with Fas the entire trip to get any kind of significant gain in FE. But, if it's really hilly, and theres a lot of traffic then that could make it difficult. Also, it's your call on the Fas-ing. You have an auto so it's generally not recommended.

Ok, I've accepted the fact that I'll probably only average 20-22mpg commuting from work.

I calculated that it only costs me about $4 a week to drive to work, and I'm making $9/hour so 30 minutes of work pays for a week of driving lol. I guess it's worth it.

Could anyone help me figure out if my car is flat towable? I looked in my manual and couldn't find it :/. Whenever I'm going 25mph or less and a light turns red I've been coasting to it with my engine off in N.

I'll see what kind of FE I'm getting next time I fill up. Last time I filled up I only ended up putting 2.2 gallons in. Could the pump have thrown my actual FE off by letting me overfill a little?

I was able to hit 34mpg once in my wife's '02 Camry. This was pure highway; speeds anywhere from 50-70mph, though I had my wife & two kids in the car, plus a packed trunk (vacation to Tenessee). I didn't really practice any real hypermiling techniques (didn't know any at the time), except I used control, so had a steady speed at least.

Most recently, I was able to get 29mpg in it last weekend, though it wasn't on a full tank, wasn't all highway, and a bunch of other variables. Still, considering it normally gets in the low 20's, I didn't think that was too bad. I was able to practice P&G in it, at least.

-Mike

I'll see what kind of FE I'm getting next time I fill up. Last time I filled up I only ended up putting 2.2 gallons in. Could the pump have thrown my actual FE off by letting me overfill a little?
__________________

It is possible. Next time you fill up it should autocorrect if the reading was off though.