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Hi All:

___Welcome to the just launched Hybrid Owners Community – Ford Escape Hybrid forum! With that, here we go :)

___At the World FE Championships last week, Dan Bryant brought to the table a new Ford Escape Hybrid - Glide technique that does away with both LGA and the double tap Brake - Glide entries. DebbieKatz is currently using it on her daily grind and may have a shot at a 60 + mpg tank on the next go around. Although I cannot give out the details just yet, Dan is writing up a succinct document and I will be asking Debbie to demonstrate the new technique(s) at the Hybridfest Hypermiling clinics to be held in Madison, WI next month!

___It really enhances the capability of the FEH without the guesswork and std. learning curve that the FEH used to require ;)

___Good Luck and I know you are going to like it!

___Wayne

Hi All:

___Welcome to the just launched Hybrid Owners Community – Ford Escape Hybrid forum! With that, here we go :)

Applause, applause :woot: :woot: :woot:

___At the World FE Championships last week, Dan Bryant brought to the table a new Ford Escape Hybrid - Glide technique that does away with both LGA and the double tap Brake - Glide entries. DebbieKatz is currently using it on her daily grind and may have a shot at a 60 + mpg tank on the next go around.

:eek: OK Wayne, I know you like to continue to give us something to strive for, but I'm looking for that 53mpg tank, with *possibly* some 60mpg or more trips :eek:

That said, this tank is still above 50 (51.8mpg) & my MTE+trip odo = 713mi. :) :) :)

Look out, Pravus Prime - I promise to teach it to you *after* the MPG Challenge, but first, I have to beat you ;)

Thanks for the new forum, Wayne - this was a great idea :)

Just out of curiosity, how does the FEH and family fare up on the 65+ MPH highways? Is it still possible to pull into the 40 MPG range? Assuming I'd be driving it at about 55 MPH. I'd really, really like to have an Escape again, and it could be a possible contender for my next car if it can do well on the highway.

Just out of curiosity, how does the FEH and family fare up on the 65+ MPH highways? Is it still possible to pull into the 40 MPG range? Assuming I'd be driving it at about 55 MPH. I'd really, really like to have an Escape again, and it could be a possible contender for my next car if it can do well on the highway.

I'm regularly seeing in the 40mpg's driving 55mph on the highway :) This past spring, on a trip back from Sheboygan (about 60mi.), I got 42mpg going 55mph - at night, with the lights on. And last weekend's trip to & from Indiana, plus the driving on the course & into town for breakfast & dinner, came out to 42mpg as well :) :) - in spite of the fact that I was using A/C off & on throughout :)

Hi All:

___Welcome to the just launched Hybrid Owners Community – Ford Escape Hybrid forum! With that, here we go :)

___At the World FE Championships last week, Dan Bryant brought to the table a new Ford Escape Hybrid - Glide technique that does away with both LGA and the double tap Brake - Glide entries. DebbieKatz is currently using it on her daily grind and may have a shot at a 60 + mpg tank on the next go around. Although I cannot give out the details just yet, Dan is writing up a succinct document and I will be asking Debbie to demonstrate the new technique(s) at the Hybridfest Hypermiling clinics to be held in Madison, WI next month!

___It really enhances the capability of the FEH without the guesswork and std. learning curve that the FEH used to require ;)

___Good Luck and I know you are going to like it!

___Wayne

Sorry Wayne, I must have not seen that technique! I think I posted everything as I discovered it when I discovered it. This is BS Pal!

GaryG

Hi Gary:

___Sorry, it isn't. You won't be using the LGA or double tap nearly as often thanks to Dan's work in his wife’s FEH :) Debbie is already improving upon her own segments thanks to it too! Four members pulled over 70 on a RT while using it for the first time at the World FE Championships and I have a feeling someone can will pull an 80 mpg segment in one now with even higher speeds simply because it is a lot more Prius like.

___Good Luck

___Wayne

It's for real, Gary :) - I pulled a 70.2mpg on the route, & mine was the lowest :rolleyes:

And my current tank average is 50.5mpg at 200+mi., in spite of rain, SummerFest traffic, & road construction :) :)

Actually, I read that more to be that Gary is bit peeved that, although he released every item he found the near instant it was found, the updated technique won't be available (or even described in brief) for some time.

Anxiously awaiting! Maybe I unknowingly used this technique on my single 65.0 mpg commute. I haven't been able to do better than 57 since :o

I'm not driving as much right now, so my patience is longer that others, but now I'm really sad that I won't be at Hybridfest to see it first hand :(:(:(:(

Any chance of a video posted here afterwards?
- Rob

Actually, I read that more to be that Gary is bit peeved that, although he released every item he found the near instant it was found, the updated technique won't be available (or even described in brief) for some time.
That was my take, too. But even if that wasn't his point, it is still very valid. I would think that anything to help FE would be disclosed whenever discovered. I guess we have a paradigm shift now, but I really don't see why. :confused:

C'mon, spill the beans! You know you want to.

This has been bothering me for the last few days also. If there's a new technique I would hope that it could be shared so the we can all take advantage and even help to improve it when possible.

We could all be working to improve this now, rather than waiting for it to be used at Hybridfest. I'd love to be able to go this year, but cannot due to work constraints.

-- Rick

This has been bothering me for the last few days also. If there's a new technique I would hope that it could be shared so the we can all take advantage and even help to improve it when possible.

We could all be working to improve this now, rather than waiting for it to be used at Hybridfest. I'd love to be able to go this year, but cannot due to work constraints.

I agree (even though I don't have a FEH). If there is a valid reason for waiting such as testing due to a potential safety hazard, it would be good to make that reason known.

Kirk

Actually, I read that more to be that Gary is bit peeved that, although he released every item he found the near instant it was found, the updated technique won't be available (or even described in brief) for some time.

That was exactly what I meant. I wasn't questioning the technique at all, I was complaining about sharing the information.

GaryG

Hi All:

___Dan and Debbie are working on a write-up first and to make sure everything is a go with actual tanks proving it or not. This one is best to wait for a few until Debbie knocks out that tank or two on her daily commute as Dan only sees his wife’s FEH for a few miles a week at most :(

___Good Luck

___Wayne

Why not let the other FEH drivers give it a shot in parallel? If it shows promise then more data from a few other drivers can only be a good thing. Unless it involves a stick of dynamite or something. If there were any benefit to keeping it quiet then why was this thread posted at all? It's not like people are going to up and decide not to go to hybridfest.

Why not let the other FEH drivers give it a shot in parallel? If it shows promise then more data from a few other drivers can only be a good thing. Unless it involves a stick of dynamite or something. If there were any benefit to keeping it quiet then why was this thread posted at all? It's not like people are going to up and decide not to go to hybridfest.

It's sad that things have to be this way, but if people want to see my review of the all new '09 FEH, see Hybridcars.com.

GaryG

HI Gary:

___Does Hybridcars pay you for writing for them?

___Tim, check the mod forum. Debbie and Dan are doing just that the last time they wrote about it?

___Good Luck

___Wayne

Debbie,

Are your numbers on the FEH that I heard is able to go 40 MPH in EV ?


BTW - you are going to have to upgrade your name to 'Czarina' of the FEH

HI Gary:

___Does Hybridcars pay you for writing for them?

___Tim, check the mod forum. Debbie and Dan are doing just that the last time they wrote about it?

___Good Luck

___Wayne

No Wayne, no one has ever paid me to write about my FEH. Brad Berman who owns Hybridcars.com has ask me to be a Moderator and I declined. I shared everything I know in the article here on CMPG before and after the '07 MPG Challenge. Eric will verify I have not signed up to be in this years MPG Challenge and have no plans too.

There is most likely no one better than myself to test a new technique than the winner of last years MPG Challenge. I feel the mission of this site has changed for personal reasons and not to better everyones mileage or environmental impact on our planet. Why would you ever question my motive?

CarlD is a small example of who I ask to come to this site for SG information for your members.

No matter how you spin it Wayne, it's BS!

Yikes... Sorry I torqued everyone up.... There is a good reason that this hasn't been published that hasn't been raised... Dan is a lazy SOB. I've been busy tinkering with the Camry and bit banging on XGauge. I'm way past due to put pen to paper. Funny part is I found the tread on from my EGO google alert. Got a hit on "Dan Bryant". Google is kind enough to mail me whenever my name is posted anywhere.... go google go...

I'll see If I can't get something slapped together soon..... I was asked to get this done earlier this week... my bad...

DGE Teaser

Anyway... The method is not anything new, I just started using it to show novice pilots how to work full hybrids. The method is called .... drum roll please.... Delayed Glide Entry or DGE for the acronym inclined. It works in all the Toyota and Ford Hybrids and it's nothing really surprising... The neat part is how well it works in the FEH. Here's the method.

For the FEH there are two DGE methods. DGE from Drive or D-DGE, and DGE from Neutral or N-DGE.

D-DGE - This method works from 20 mph to 30 mph. The basic idea is once you hit 30 from D, you come fully off the gas, and wait 3000 ms then shift to Neutral. About 300 ms later the ICE cuts out and you transition into a NICE-off glide. I started using this when I noticed it happen by accident a few times. I hooked up my gauges and started testing how man MPH I loose in a double-tap glide entry, a D-DGE, and a LGE glide entry. Of them all, I found that DGE loss the least amount of speed (almost tied). Now fuel cut should be in effect during the 3000 ms delay so your actually at 9999 MPG from the moment your foot is off the gas. So to recap:

Accel up to 30.00 mph in Drive "D".
Take your foot all the way off the gas
Watch the TACH and count "one-one-thousand... two-one-thousand... three-one-thousand...". By the time you get to "three-one-th..." you should see the TACH hickup.
Once you get the hickup on the TACH, slam it into neutral.
Glide down to the desired pulse entry speed.
Rense and repeat...


N-DGE - This method works from 10 mph to 20 mph. The basic idea is once you hit 20 from D then shift to Neutral. About 300 ms later the ICE cuts out and you transition from a NICE-on to a NICE-off glide. I found this out tooling around the parking lots. I always make liberal use of NICE-on glides during warm-ups on Toyotas, so it was just a habit I had failed to break driving the MMH. Well a few times, I looked down and notice the engine had cut out while I was in Neutral.... Clever car! So to recap:

Accel up to 20.00 mph in Drive "D".
Shift into Neutral
Watch the TACH and count "one-one-thousand... two-one-thousand... three-one-thousand...". By the time you get to "three-one-th..." you should see the TACH hickup.
Once you get the hickup the ICE will cut from Neutral
Glide down to the desired pulse entry speed.
Rense and repeat...


For the Toyota's only D-DGE works, and it's sometimes the only way to get a Camry or HiHy to glide with anything less than a high SoC... The Toyota's will also allow D-DGE all the way up to 40 mph.

I'll put more meat into a bigger writeup but this should get you going. Now under 10mph I just EV, and over 30 you have to use LGA or double-tap exclusively. I find the numbers are very good for a pulse band of 15-30 using D-DGE for the glides. As you get really good at it you can shift at about "three-on..." instead of "three-one-th.." and get a few milliseconds on the cycle. I don't think the TACH needs to complete it's hicup, it just needs to get through the "hic..." part of it.

11011011

Hi Dan:

___Thank You :)

___Good Luck

___Wayne

What I can't understand about any of this is why Ford went and
made it so convoluted. With the Prius, you take your foot off
the pedal, and you get ICE shutdown and glide, nothing to it.
Why all this fancy foot and hand work is necessary in the FEH
is just idiotic, whether it's FS or DBT or DGE or XYZ or whatever.
Why can't the thing just read the driver request and do the
right thing as it comes?
.
Of course Toyota has its share of stupid little bugs too, like
the whole idle-check-to-enter-stage-4 thing, but I find the amount
of mystery and controversy whirling around the FEH just plain
irritating.
.
_H*

Hi Al:

___One of my few disappointments with Ford's FEH also generates similar sentiments with regards to the HiHy and TCH. Auto-gliding either of those and you will pull your hair out :( The Prius just does it (other than that darn S1 through S4) whereas the rest you have to fiddle and fuddle with them to make them do what you want vs. what they want :)

___Gary, CleanMPG (www.CleanMPG.com) has everything to do with getting drivers up the ladder to much higher fuel economy quickly for the betterment of all.

___Good Luck

___Wayne

Thanks Dan - this is great :) :)

I've been playing with the D-DGE quite a bit on my commutes since I got home from IN. What seems to work best for me is to accelerate to 31mph (i.e., the speedometer needle has just cleared the 30mph hash-mark) before taking my foot off the gas. Then as the tach needle starts to drop, then hesitates, I shift to N & by the time the tach needle drops completely I'm right at 30mph - this gives me more time to glide, especially if I'm in traffic :)

And yes, while the LGA still has it's place in the FEH repertoire, I like the DGE better for in-traffic driving because you can use it without the sudden loss of speed that shifting to low gear causes :)

One of the other things I've learned is that DGE works even better while keeping some charge in the battery, so that when you pulse, less of that energy is drawn into the HV battery. Towards the end of my commute to work, I have to climb from the lake-shore to the top of the bluff above the lake, which always made my FE drop off without enough of the trip left to "pay it back" :mad: Using DGE, I conserve enough charge in my HV battery to climb the entire hill in EV :) :) :)

At 302mi., my FCD is at 51.2mpg; my SGII tank average shows 50.5mpg - either way, I'm almost half-way to another 50mpg+ tank :) :) :) :)

Gary & Rich, you have to check this out :)

I tried this again last night and found that I didn't need to count to three-one-thousand or watch for the Tachometer hiccup, because the Instant MPG on the sgii would indicate going EV by jumping above 120 MPG prior to the hiccup or the "three-". So please see if this is true for you too.

At 312mi., my FCD is above 40 for the first time ever :D, this far into a tank; my sgii tank average is at 43.8, also the highest ever this far into a tank!

I'm not driving as much right now (biking+busing more), but that is giving me time to "noodle" on how this is working without getting frustrated by it.

Keep climbing!
- Rob

Hi Rob:

___With your own observations, DGE is sounding better all the time!

___Good Luck

___Wayne

I tried this again last night and found that I didn't need to count to three-one-thousand or watch for the Tachometer hiccup, because the Instant MPG on the sgii would indicate going EV by jumping above 120 MPG prior to the hiccup or the "three-". So please see if this is true for you too.

At 312mi., my FCD is above 40 for the first time ever :D, this far into a tank; my sgii tank average is at 43.8, also the highest ever this far into a tank!

I'm not driving as much right now (biking+busing more), but that is giving me time to "noodle" on how this is working without getting frustrated by it.

Keep climbing!
- Rob

That's great Rob :) :)

I'll have to remember to watch my SGII. I did notice that on the NAV I get a little advance notice because the engine icon loses its orange outline, meaning the ICE is shutting down - so many places to watch, & for only a split second :D

By the way, kudos to you for your use of bike & bus :) I've taken to running errands on my bike & my FEH usually stays in the garage all weekend. My biggest problem is that when I go grocery shopping, I'm always over-estimating the capacity of my backpack :p

Well, I certainly hope something more is coming on this. DGE as so far described is nothing new, something that I and I assume most others have observed many times. As far as this replacing or even reducing double-taps and LGA, you are completely missing the point of these methods. LGA is used primarily as an SOC builder when needed. Double-tap is primarily used as a method to turn off the ICE when nothing else works! If you do the double-tap carefully, the speed loss will not be significantly different than simply coasting in D. For those of us stuck with hot HV batteries, DGE will not work. It (and also LGA) will also not work if MxC is decreasing or at zero, although it never stays at zero for very long. As far as the LGA, I have driven 05 through 08 FEHs and can tell you the LGA is different in all of them. The SoC boost from the LGA in an 08 is significantly reduced from my late-build 2005. And as far as speeds of 30 MPH and less, EV is hard to beat with P&G, although it can certainly be done if no else is near you. In the traffic I drive in, P&G is not really an option. As far a N coasting, for long distances it can actually force the FEH into warm-up mode when shifted back in D. I have noticed this at drive-throughs even with outside temps in the upper 90's! I don't know if anyone else has observed this, but it has happened enough that I know it is not a fluke.

Also, Debbie are you still using your EBH? What is your typical SoC when you park for the night? Does your Tav ever get above 85F?

... DGE as so far described is nothing new ...

For me, so far the difference is not losing as much momentum on the way to EV. Therefore I keep more SoC and stay in EV longer between pulses. Perhaps I am not applying LGA and Double Tap properly, so this may be an alternate method for those who are not as good at those two methods?

... My biggest problem is that when I go grocery shopping, I'm always over-estimating the capacity of my backpack :p

Luckily, one or more of my kids will usually go with me and we divide the load between the multiple backpacks. I've been trying to convince the family to get a 3 wheel bike that has the basket in between the two back wheels. My grandmother had one and it was great for the grocery store runs.

I'm sure we were quite the sight the other night, riding back from Pizza Hut with P'Zones in the backpacks and 2 pizza boxes on my handlebars :eek:

Anyway... The method is not anything new...Well, I certainly hope something more is coming on this. DGE as so far described is nothing new, something that I and I assume most others have observed many times.Agreed... and I've said as much as well. What's new is to actually name it and look at what parameters effect it. I guess knowing that a stick can dig a whole is not the same as having a whole digging stick. ;) The main reason I formed a method around DGE was so I could teach hypermiling to people that have never done it. It's how I coach people in the Prius and Camry as well. Simpler for them to eat a second of regen than fiddling with the pedal for the magic spot. The new part is that even though I consider myself a capable hypermiler, I could never make LGA or double-tap a more efficient glide entry method than D-DGE.LGA is used primarily as an SOC builder when needed. Double-tap is primarily used as a method to turn off the ICE when nothing else works!I'd always seen LGA and double-tap listed as the primary glide entry methods, not the secondary. That's why I was intrigued that no writeup (that I found) listed D-DGE (or call it "in gear coasting") as preferred method for glide entry.If you do the double-tap carefully, the speed loss will not be significantly different than simply coasting in D.I find D-DGE about 65% more efficient than double-tap. D-DGE can be done with a loss of only 1 MPH (from the time you end your pulse to the time your ICE is off), double-tap always eats at least 3 MPH for me, same with LGA. I believe that you might be able to get double-tap or LGA down to 1.5 but I'm not sure that I could ever execute it without loosing at least 1-2 MPH. For me.... D-DGE is more efficient by a fair margin.For those of us stuck with hot HV batteries, DGE will not work. It (and also LGA) will also not work if MxC is decreasing or at zero, although it never stays at zero for very long. As far as the LGA, I have driven 05 through 08 FEHs and can tell you the LGA is different in all of them. The SoC boost from the LGA in an 08 is significantly reduced from my late-build 2005.... As far a N coasting, for long distances it can actually force the FEH into warm-up mode when shifted back in D. I have noticed this at drive-throughs even with outside temps in the upper 90's! I don't know if anyone else has observed this, but it has happened enough that I know it is not a fluke.I believe warm-up cold be triggered if the ICE temp drops too much. Hadn't experienced much of the rest.And as far as speeds of 30 MPH and less, EV is hard to beat with P&G, although it can certainly be done if no else is near you. In the traffic I drive in, P&G is not really an optionComing from a Toyota mindset, I alway seen assist and regen cycles lossy and try to stay out of them as much as driver control allows. But that may just be my Toyota training. My thoughts were always that the round trip regen to EV cycle being (at best) 51% efficient, so if you could just keep the energy in the wheels instead of forcing it through the regen to EV cycle, it looks to me like staying out of the pack would be best.

11011011

Dan,

I did not intend to denigrate your work in any way, shape, or form if that is what it came across as. The more people looking for ways to improve the FEH FE, the better, especially one as adept at FE as yourself. But after the first few posts on this topic, I guess I was expecting something akin to cold fusion. Presently I am fighting the 110F weather that makes hypermiling the FEH so difficult. Often times the double-tap in N is the only way to turn off the ICE, and sometimes even that doesn't work and I am forced to FAS when stopped at a light, since I never FAS when moving. But since my morning commute includes three backset passengers, I simply hit the 45MPH roads with the A/C going and save the hypermiling sweatlodge for the last mile. It will be two months at least before I can expect to put up some good FE numbers.

... I never FAS when moving...

Hi CarlD,

Is that a personal choice? Or is there a problem FASing the FEH when moving? I thought that since it is flat towable that it was an acceptable manuever :confused:

Thanks,
-Rob

I did not intend to denigrate your work in any way, shape, or form if that is what it came across as.No offense taken. I couldn't have gotten my SGIIx functioning with your help as well. I've been a bit gaurded in tone since there were some crossed words earlier in this thread.Is that a personal choice? Or is there a problem FASing the FEH when moving? I thought that since it is flat towable that it was an acceptable manuever :confused:I don't think rocking the key off in the FEH would be a FAS. I'd call it a DSG. The difference is that a FAS is recoverable, a DSG is not. Once you go from On to Off in the FEH the only way to get back to On is through Park. I use DSG a fair amount in most of my cars, but usually can find a way around it.

11011011

I think I do FAS my FEH. As I leave my driveway I climb a small hill and then have about 1/2 mile downhill, so I shift to N, key off, key back on to position 2 (to get my steering back), than I key start at the point where I start uphill again. If I'm slower than 6 mph, than I do have to go to Park to restart. Doesn't that fit the definition of a FAS?

Debbie,

Are your numbers on the FEH that I heard is able to go 40 MPH in EV ?


BTW - you are going to have to upgrade your name to 'Czarina' of the FEH

Hi Vooch --

I've only seen EV at 40mph a few times, & I've never been sure what I did to get it :p

And thanks for the suggestion for my new title :D :D

No offense taken. I couldn't have gotten my SGIIx functioning with your help as well. I've been a bit gaurded in tone since there were some crossed words earlier in this thread.I don't think rocking the key off in the FEH would be a FAS. I'd call it a DSG. The difference is that a FAS is recoverable, a DSG is not. Once you go from On to Off in the FEH the only way to get back to On is through Park. I use DSG a fair amount in most of my cars, but usually can find a way around it.

11011011

Thanks Dan for the new named technique and I give it a ten out of ten myself. Sorry if I acted a little pis*** off at first, but any new ideas or techniques should be shared ASAP with todays gas prices. The D-DGE has been added to my bag of tricks and I'm seeing some impressive numbers I've never experienced in hot weather, flat roads and E-10. I thought my 50mpg tanks were gone forever with E-10, but now I'm back in the game thanks to you.

The '05 FEH can be restarted in "N" over 6mph, but I don't recommend it. The '09 Owner Manual even tells you not to shut your vehicle Off or On while moving now. The manual also now states you will void your engine warranty if you use any other oil than approved 5-20W. I think their speaking to those who are using 0-20W oil myself. Ford also says in the '09 manual they can retrieve driving history. Ford didn't use the term "Black Box", but that sounds like what they've done in the PCM.

The '09 FEH/MMH can accelerate to 40mph in EV now much easier, but the computer will start the ICE like Wayne mentioned before at that speed. The D-DGE should work much better in the '09 because of a number of reasons. Ford as gone to a more aggressive fuel cut on decel, the ICE will shutdown twice as much and at speed below 40mph without the double tap or "L" gear. I'm expecting my '09 within a few weeks to verify what I've been reading.

Here is a copy of the '09 Manual:
http://www.motorcraftservice.com/pubs/content/~WO9HEV/~MUS~LEN/41/09hevog1e.pdf

GaryG

Well, I certainly hope something more is coming on this. DGE as so far described is nothing new, something that I and I assume most others have observed many times. As far as this replacing or even reducing double-taps and LGA, you are completely missing the point of these methods. LGA is used primarily as an SOC builder when needed. Double-tap is primarily used as a method to turn off the ICE when nothing else works! If you do the double-tap carefully, the speed loss will not be significantly different than simply coasting in D. For those of us stuck with hot HV batteries, DGE will not work. It (and also LGA) will also not work if MxC is decreasing or at zero, although it never stays at zero for very long. As far as the LGA, I have driven 05 through 08 FEHs and can tell you the LGA is different in all of them. The SoC boost from the LGA in an 08 is significantly reduced from my late-build 2005. And as far as speeds of 30 MPH and less, EV is hard to beat with P&G, although it can certainly be done if no else is near you. In the traffic I drive in, P&G is not really an option. As far a N coasting, for long distances it can actually force the FEH into warm-up mode when shifted back in D. I have noticed this at drive-throughs even with outside temps in the upper 90's! I don't know if anyone else has observed this, but it has happened enough that I know it is not a fluke.


Hi Carl --

I'm sorry if we had you hoping for more than you got, but this was a definite break-through for me :) As I've written before, I'm not of an analytical turn of mind (musician, librarian, lover of cats - logic does not live in my head ;)), so I haven't contributed much to the ways of the FEH. But I've studied & tried to put into practice what others have learned - & the DGE as it was presented to me was completely new :o

I knew about the tach bounce as a pre-EV indicator, but I had read about it it GaryG's article where he writes about getting it at ~40mph & shifting to N to go EV. Taking that rather literally, I had one place along my commute where that would be possible, & I could never get it to happen - even when I shifted into N, I still got arrows on my energy-flow screen & the tach would spin back up again. At this point in my trip, I'm coming down off our harbor bridge (think the Blues Brothers movie) to a potential stop & a definite decrease in speed from 50mph to 30mph, so I suspect that the HV battery is simply too full for this to work :o So I gave up trying to P&G :(

Then, at HF2007, Gary let me ride along & observe as he drove my FEH in the MPG Challenge. One of the things he showed me was to keep the SoC in the HV battery low, so that when the ICE came on, using the LGA would send more regen to the HV battery as well as return to EV. For the past year I've been using that technique - whenever the ICE comes on, I'd pulse up 5-10mi., then shift to L to go back to EV If you look at my mileage log postings you'll see the improvement in my FE - that's also when I started seeing >50mpg on my commutes :) :)

Then Dan showed me DGE last month, & it worked for me right away :) It doesn't *replace* the LGA & the double-tap (which I've never been able to master :confused:), but it's new to my *personal* toolbox & is already making a big difference :) :)

I do have to say that I probably have the perfect commute for this vehicle - one of these days I'll have to post specifics of the trip & how I'm able to use what I've learned from everyone here to get the FE I do :) And, here in Milwaukee, along Lake Michigan, extreme high temps are not generally a problem :), so the climate is largely not a problem either :)

Also, Debbie are you still using your EBH? What is your typical SoC when you park for the night? Does your Tav ever get above 85F?

I always park my FEH for the night with a very low SoC, but actually, I don't have the X-gauges yet - I haven't been willing to give up my SGII for re-programming :D And after reading GaryG's remarks about having 2 of them, I want to get a second one - I just need to come up with a reason to give my husband for why I need one *more* thing to look at besides the road :D :D

Hi CarlD,

Is that a personal choice? Or is there a problem FASing the FEH when moving? I thought that since it is flat towable that it was an acceptable manuever :confused:

Thanks,
-Rob

As an EE making RFIC's and MMIC's for things ranging from Patriot missles to cell phones and cars (had supplier pricing from GM when the EV1 was still around), I know supply transients are killers for electrical and electronic devices. I have just chosen not to subject those in my FEH to anymore than necessary. Probably over reactive on my part, but so be it. Also, in my driving environment there usually isn't much benefit to it over other techniques.

... The '05 FEH can be restarted in "N" over 6mph, but I don't recommend it ...

As an EE making RFIC's and MMIC's for things ranging from Patriot missles to cell phones and cars (had supplier pricing from GM when the EV1 was still around), I know supply transients are killers for electrical and electronic devices. I have just chosen not to subject those in my FEH to anymore than necessary. Probably over reactive on my part, but so be it. Also, in my driving environment there usually isn't much benefit to it over other techniques.

Thank you both. I'm going to stop FASing and work harder on my EV entry instead.

Well, I certainly hope something more is coming on this. DGE as so far described is nothing new, something that I and I assume most others have observed many times. As far as this replacing or even reducing double-taps and LGA, you are completely missing the point of these methods. LGA is used primarily as an SOC builder when needed. Double-tap is primarily used as a method to turn off the ICE when nothing else works! If you do the double-tap carefully, the speed loss will not be significantly different than simply coasting in D. For those of us stuck with hot HV batteries, DGE will not work. It (and also LGA) will also not work if MxC is decreasing or at zero, although it never stays at zero for very long. As far as the LGA, I have driven 05 through 08 FEHs and can tell you the LGA is different in all of them. The SoC boost from the LGA in an 08 is significantly reduced from my late-build 2005. And as far as speeds of 30 MPH and less, EV is hard to beat with P&G, although it can certainly be done if no else is near you. In the traffic I drive in, P&G is not really an option. As far a N coasting, for long distances it can actually force the FEH into warm-up mode when shifted back in D. I have noticed this at drive-throughs even with outside temps in the upper 90's! I don't know if anyone else has observed this, but it has happened enough that I know it is not a fluke.


Good points Carl

Today, I used the DGE with a combination of the LGA in that I did a FS in "L" as soon as I had a restart. This boost my SoC and lowered my speed as it always does, but for my slow acceleration to 32mph my SoC was ready for a long EV coast and mode. I did the FS in "D" to go EV instead of "L" the second time for a much more efficient coast into EV. This reduces heat in the battery over the long run for me in 90 degree weather. You may have to adjust even more for your hotter climate.

I estimate a 15mpg increase in my mileage in my conditions and E-10 today. Needless to say I'm very happy with what Dan has pointed out. I will use what works in my conditions and the year my FEH offers. Like you, I know the '08 operates much different than the '05 FEH as far as regen.

At 110 degrees, your going to have to run the A/C period! At 45mph with the A/C might be the best you can do Carl.

GaryG

Accel up to 30.00 mph in Drive "D".
Take your foot all the way off the gas
Watch the TACH and count "one-one-thousand... two-one-thousand... three-one-thousand...". By the time you get to "three-one-th..." you should see the TACH hickup.
Once you get the hickup on the TACH, slam it into neutral.
Glide down to the desired pulse entry speed.
Rense and repeat...

Novice has some Q's, first I assume LGA is low gear advantage. Next, good descrip of method, but what comes next, that is you say Rense? reset and repeat or? How far do you glide, how slow do glide down to, how far do you go before doing D-DGE again? It seems to make sense reading it, but when I think about doing it, I have trouble seeing the 'cycle' of it driving down the road.

And, do you really mean SLAM it in to neutral, don't like the idea of doing that over and over on the mechanisms!

Further, meant to add: Merely reading, I picture this (and this can't possibly be what you mean!), the FEH going down the road, hitting 30, slowing down, umm say 20, going up to 30, going down to 20, over and over. And I just can't see that on any road unless there was no other traffic around, and if there were it would be looking for trouble. Thus, put me in the real picture, as it can't be what I just stated!

Hi Ranger01:

___P&G in traffic is where it makes the most sense because traffic when in a stop and crawl does pulse and glide. Except most get < 5 mpg while many CleanMPG members are pulling 10 to 25 times that much :)

___There is no slamming and the FEH Mechanism is not actually attached to any transmission. You never slam anything if you can avoid it.

___For the 20 to 30 question, you use whatever is allowed. If that means 36 and than 18 to 28 to 5 than 50 to 22, you use it. In heavy traffic, place your CC on and you will inadvertently smash into the bumper in front of you within seconds in most cases. There is no steady state in most cities through much of the day. At least not the big cities I drive/have driven in?

___Don’t worry about picking up everything your first time out. It takes years to get this stuff working just right in your vehicle but by all means place yourself on a continuous improvement schedule. If today your FEH is allowing 32 mpg, try and pull 35 from it by the end of July. Pull a few 40 mpg segments before fall and keep moving the bar higher and higher. Your old high will be your new floor and so on. Hopefully what you will see is no fall off as winter approaches and than next year, look out because the FEH is a FE animal :)

___Good Luck

___Wayne

Hey Ranger

You don't have to P&G using this technique. What I liked was how I could maintain 30mph and have my mileage average climb to 55mpg. Everything was real smooth with the cars behind me and I was doing the speed limit. As the SoC reached 43%, I slowly increased my speed to 31-32mph and let off the gas pedal in "D" to drop into EV at 30mph. I would hold 30mph in EV and stay in "D" with no shifting until a restart with the SoC a little below 40%. You should even be able to set the cruise control at 30mph (I'll try this soon) and after a restart, just slowly accelerate as the SoC increases as you slowly increase speed to 31-32mph for another glide into EV. The P&G can be used with how traffic or something requires you to slowdown ahead. If your in Cruise Control, just shift to "N" (which will cancel CC) and glide to the slower speed. Use "L" for braking if needed and the brake pedal if required.

As Dan pointed out, this is the most efficient transition between ICE and EV. The only drawback is the highest speed is limited to 30mph in the '05 through '08 FEH/MMH. Over 30mph just use the LGA or double tap in "D" or "L" to go EV under 40mph.

GaryG

Thanks all for the info, time to get out, find some quiet roads and practise!:)

Thanks all for the info, time to get out, find some quiet roads and practise!:)

Just returned from my commute and while in cruise control at 30mph the ICE did not shutdown with this technique.

GaryG

Just returned from my commute and while in cruise control at 30mph the ICE did not shutdown with this technique.

GaryG

Just made a soccer practice pickup; 8.4 miles, 51.4 mpg, from a cold start. While in CC at 30 mph my ICE did not shutdown either. The RPMs seemed to stay at about 1500 while in CC. Once in EV mode, I was able to CC at 31 mph over a flat segment, but I think it depleted the SoC much faster than if I had stayed in manual control,so I don't plan to use CC at these speeds anymore.

- Rob

Hi

I might be missing something here. I have an 07 FEH. I tried the DGE and saw no noticebale difference from just P&G when I leave it in drive. What am I missing? What might I be doing wrong in the DGE method if I'm not seeing anything? What exactly is the hiccup of the tach that I am looking for before putting it in N? This all looks so easy on paper. :confused: :o

Thanks

I might be missing something here. I have an 07 FEH. I tried the DGE and saw no noticebale difference from just P&G when I leave it in drive. What am I missing?Well if you have a controlled course you can test on, you'll find you glide further when you shift to "N" than you do if you leave it in "D". So since you glide furthest in "N" the point of D-DGE is two fold. 1) Get the engine to cut out as quickly as possible and 2) To get to "N" as quickly after the engine cuts out as possible.

What exactly is the hiccup of the tach that I am looking for before putting it in N?If you watch REAL close you'll see the tach move from 1050 RPM to 1000 RPM to 1025 RPM to 0000 RPM. So when you see the tack jump down to 1000ish start watching for it to blip up for about 200 ms. When that happens the engine has committed to shutting down and nothing will stop it so your safe to shift to N.

11011011

I got a chance to use this for the first time today. Took a while since most of my driving is unfortunately highway. A few times on one rural highway close to home I tried a little P&G on some of the few flat stretches around here. Not only does it drop into EV after accelerating at the end of a pulse, if you are decelerating from a higher speed and drop past 30mph, the ICE cuts out every time! It brought the end of a not so good drive up to over 39mpg! Thanks, Dan!

-- Rick

Well, I filled up tonight and using this new glide for ~the last 200 miles helped me boost up to 43.3 mpg :D I'm sure some of the other techniques effected this tank as well, but bumping up +2 from my previous high tank is great news for me.

Thanks for the detailed descriptions, they definitely helped! Hopefully someone at HF2008 will make a video of some real experts using this and other techniques and post it here for those unfortunate soles :ccry: who cannot attend? Please? Pretty Please? With sugar on top?

- Rob

FYI.
I've read my 2008 FEH book and it says it can be flat towed all 4 wheels on the ground upto 75mph. but can only be started in P.

FYI.
I've read my 2008 FEH book and it says it can be flat towed all 4 wheels on the ground upto 75mph. but can only be started in P.

This is true about the FEH/MMH can be towed 4 down up to 75mph, but you can restart in "N" if your moving over 6mph. The '09 manual now warns against restarting the engine in "N" while moving. The new programming can also now monitor your driving history. Ford may void your warranty if you drive using Key Off FAS now. Ford says in the '09 manual they will also void your engine warranty if you use any oil other than approved 5-20W. The engine has a 5yr 60,000 mile warranty, so my advice is not to use 0-20W.
http://www.motorcraftservice.com/pubs/content/~WO9HEV/~MUS~LEN/41/09hevog1e.pdf

GaryG

GaryG,
DO you know anyone with a 2008 that can start the FEH if moving over 6MPH ?

GaryG,
DO you know anyone with a 2008 that can start the FEH if moving over 6MPH ?

No one has posted about doing it but I haven't heard of any changes in the '08 workshop manual. Neutral gear consist of 2 neutral operating states: active neutral above 6mph, and passive neutral below 6mph. In active neutral, the generator motor is permitted to start and stop the ICE as needed to maintain the HV battery charge, and provide A/C. In passive neutral, the engine must remain in the state it was (running or not running) when the mode was entered and not permitted to change state (start or stop). The vehicle cannot be started in passive neutral, but can be started in active neutral. This comes from the '05 Escape Hybrid Powertrain Control/Emissions Diagnosis Service Manual

You can test passive neutral while in EV by turning on your A/C to max and the engine won't start if you are in passive neutral (under 6mph). Had this happen going through a car wash and had to wait for A/C till I could shift back to drive as I exited.

The fact that the '09 owner's manual tells you not to restart in neutral leads me to believe there has been no change in active neutral and you can still restart above 6mph.

GaryG

I will try the A/C tirck you listed above. thanks

Hi Gary,

You mentioned the '08 workshop manual' in this post, and I believe you have mentioned it in other posts. Can you supply any more information? I suspect this might some kind of manual that can be purchased from Ford.

Anyhow I am glad we have this technique out in the open. Will have to give it a try, or maybe I am already using it and I don't know it.

The one thing I love about the FEH that has been mentioned in this thread is that little blip on the tachometer around 1000 RPM before it drops into EV mode. The other thing I get excited about either when coasting in drive or neutral is when the instantaneous MPG starts heading over 100 MPG.

Do you thing it would make sense to get your writeup on hypermiling the FEH/MMH into this forum? Seems like there are some differences between the various years 2005-2009 scattered around in various threads that may not be obvious especially to newcomers, which I am not far off from being one.

Another thing I think might be useful is to get a more thorough discussion of the FEH SGII x-gauges. I have all of my gauges programmed into my SGII, but what I still don't have a good feel for is the range of the gauges, what is good, what is not so good, when to use them with which FE techniques. So for the most part I just use MPG, MPH, SOC, and GPH. I think I read somewhere about a new x-gauge for cost per mile, but haven't seen it anywhere.

For kicks today, I ran a report of the mileage logs, and I think I counted like 18 FEH and 5 MMH. Was wondering if anybody out there is driving a Mazda Tribute Hybrid. Can't ever remember seeing one on the road. Seems like there is a range of about 26-40 MPG in the 23 of us that post our logs, so I am hoping that we could help each other get our FE over the EPA MPG for our vehicles. It has taken me almost 6 months to get my vehicle over the EPA average, and now I am trying to catch up with the czarina DebbieKatz!

Thanks to Wayne for putting up our own community forum!
Do you think it would make sense to include the MMH and the Mazda Tribute into this community forum, as it may not be intuitively obvious to new users that are driving the MMH or Mazda Tribute that this forum is for them too?

Thanks,
Bruce

Hi everyone!

I hope this isn't a dead thread!! I'd like to ask a question or two about my '09 FEH.

I have the Nav system, and when I'm looking at my HEV page, the SoC only seems to go one bar above the halfway point. Is it supposed to go all the way to the top? I'm wondering if I'm not doing enough to bring the SoC up before using it up again by using the electric motor.

Also, would it be of much benefit to get a SG-II considering I have SOME data available via the Nav system?

Thanks in advance for your help!!

JimmyD

Best SoC for city driving is midrange, so your doing fine. What you want to try to do in a glide is not use the battery at all. As odd as it sounds a big part of hypermiling a hybrid is to stay away from the battery. Converting energy from the wheels to the battery, and from the battery to the wheels is all a lossy process. I know it sounds odd, but there you go. Doing an EV pulse will actually hurt your FE in the end. The more EV you use, the more gas your gonna burn to try to replenish the loss SoC. Only good time to use EV is if you have a PHEV vehicle.

11011011

Thanks for the response, Dan.

I've been using Neutral mostly when I glide, and that has helped immensely, especially since San Diego is pretty hilly. The engine stays on over 40mph, and after reading that Ford has methods of monitoring past vehicle usage to void warranties, well, I won't be turning off the engine during my coasting.

Increasing the pressure in my tires made a BIG difference!

Now I need to decide whether or not to get a SG-II.

JimmmyD

(also, I'm sure there's a FAQ for it, but how do you get the 'signature box' that has your MPG data for 3mo/6mo/lifetime??)

Welcome, Jimmy!

Check out the link in my signature for a collection of good informational links... including one on how to set up that mileage banner in your signature. :)

Thanks for the response, Dan.

I've been using Neutral mostly when I glide, and that has helped immensely, especially since San Diego is pretty hilly. The engine stays on over 40mph, and after reading that Ford has methods of monitoring past vehicle usage to void warranties, well, I won't be turning off the engine during my coasting.

JimmmyD


Welcome to CleanMPG and congrats on the 2009 FEH! We traded our 2007 FEH FWD in for a 2009 FEH Limited FWD in February and really love it.

There is no need to turn off the engine over 40mph anyway since most of the time you will get fuel-cut when coasting in D. FEH's before the 2009 did have fuel-cut. I don't coast too often in N when over 40mph since it seems to drain the SoC too much (coasting in N is OK when under 40 in EV though). If I'm reading pretty high I may use N downhill to gain extra momentum, but I know I'm losing SoC when I do. One reason to have an SG II, especially since I do not have the Nav. You can also tell with the SG II when you are getting fuel cut when coasting (LP goes Open Loop and Instant MPG will read 9999mpg).

When SoC gets below 47 or 46 on the SG II, fuel-cut does not happen for me when coasting. However, one light tap on the brake will get it to kick in.

-- Rick

Welcome, Jimmy!

Check out the link in my signature for a collection of good informational links... including one on how to set up that mileage banner in your signature. :)

Thanks Cruiser...

The links got me set on the right track. I hope! :D

Looks good! :thumbs_up:

You need to substitute your actual vehicle number for "XXX" in the URL, though. ;)

Welcome to CleanMPG and congrats on the 2009 FEH! We traded our 2007 FEH FWD in for a 2009 FEH Limited FWD in February and really love it.

There is no need to turn off the engine over 40mph anyway since most of the time you will get fuel-cut when coasting in D. FEH's before the 2009 did have fuel-cut. I don't coast too often in N when over 40mph since it seems to drain the SoC too much (coasting in N is OK when under 40 in EV though). If I'm reading pretty high I may use N downhill to gain extra momentum, but I know I'm losing SoC when I do. One reason to have an SG II, especially since I do not have the Nav. You can also tell with the SG II when you are getting fuel cut when coasting (LP goes Open Loop and Instant MPG will read 9999mpg).

When SoC gets below 47 or 46 on the SG II, fuel-cut does not happen for me when coasting. However, one light tap on the brake will get it to kick in.

-- Rick

rmcmast...

I'll have to start watching the SoC when coasting. I'm pretty sure that over 40mph, since the engine is still on anyway, that it's putting a charge into the batteries. I'll have to watch the green arrows on the display a little closer and see what it's doing.

My significant other drives the car occasionally, and it not concerned about mpg at all....(can you guess who pays the gas bill?). So I can't wait to see what I can do on a complete tank of gas driven only by me! :p

Thanks for all the info....this is a great site. It's nice to get 400+ miles to a 13 gal tank of fuel compared to my old Ford Explorer, which would get about 260 miles per tank on 18+ gallons!! :eek:

JimmyD

rmcmast...

I'm pretty sure that over 40mph, since the engine is still on anyway, that it's putting a charge into the batteries.

In D this is true. N will cancel regen though (no charge to the battery).
My significant other drives the car occasionally, and it not concerned about mpg at all....(can you guess who pays the gas bill?). So I can't wait to see what I can do on a complete tank of gas driven only by me! :p

I'm pretty lucky with my wife. She pulls as good or better numbers than I do! Kinda funny, before we got the 2007 FEH, I used to be a lead foot and would brag about how low my MPG was compared to her in our old Grand Prix GSP. :) That thing took premium gas too (sure glad we don't have that any more)!

-- Rick

Hi everyone!

I hope this isn't a dead thread!! I'd like to ask a question or two about my '09 FEH.

I have the Nav system, and when I'm looking at my HEV page, the SoC only seems to go one bar above the halfway point. Is it supposed to go all the way to the top? I'm wondering if I'm not doing enough to bring the SoC up before using it up again by using the electric motor.

Also, would it be of much benefit to get a SG-II considering I have SOME data available via the Nav system?

Thanks in advance for your help!!

JimmyD

Hi Jimmy

The '09 Nav Sys is completely different than prior models and the SoC gauge is also. Most of the time SoC will not go higher than 51% unless you get a lot of regen from the brakes going downhill. The only time you see the SoC go higher than ~60% is when your HV battery gets a recalibration strategy from the PCM. This is rare and the '09 Nav Sys allows you to see the battery go higher than 80% SoC which other models never showed this high SoC reading. The SGII SoC X-gauge will show a better SoC detailed reading in all FEH/MMH models and I highly recommend you get a SGII.

The '09 FEH Nav Sys reads 4% higher MPG than the actual gas you burn and the SGII can be adjusted to the correct reading. I have two SGII's in my '09 FWD FEH and I would be lost without them now that I know what they can do for my mileage.

I drive my FEH's differently than Dan and keep my SoC between 40.2% and 42% most of the time for Max EV driving. I find a low SoC charges faster to get back in EV again much sooner. This next year I expect my '09 FEH lifetime average to get to 52mpg which will be 160% of combined EPA using this and other techniques without FAS. Like Rick posted there is no need for FAS in the '09 FEH with instant EV and fuel-cut above 40mph. The SGII can confirm fuel-cut like Rick stated also.

Warm-up P&G with the engine running and coasting in "D" will provide charging and partial fuel-cut till your FEH is ready for EV and full fuel-cut over 40mph. In cold weather (below 38F) you may need to heat the battery with P&G by coasting in "D" and using brake regen during the glide. The fast charge of regen heats the battery and I found this reduces the time to go EV and charges the battery much quicker. Those hills of yours will help your MPG once you learn DWL and coasting in neutral in EV and "D" for fuel-cut. Don't worry about the SoC getting to low in EV because I just drop the shifter down in "D" and pick-up some regen with the brake pedal to prevent a restart, then back to "N" to finish my glide.

Good Luck!

GaryG

I read in the manual that the HV battery will not be charged while in N, but the nav shows "idle with charge" and the green arrows flowing into the HV while I'm in N coasting down a hill. I guess a SG-II will tell me what's REALLY going on.

Are the SG's very complicated to figure out, or do you tell it what kind of vehicle you're driving and the rest is pretty much automatic information??

JimmyD

I read in the manual that the HV battery will not be charged while in N, but the nav shows "idle with charge" and the green arrows flowing into the HV while I'm in N coasting down a hill. I guess a SG-II will tell me what's REALLY going on.

Are the SG's very complicated to figure out, or do you tell it what kind of vehicle you're driving and the rest is pretty much automatic information??

JimmyD

Over 6mph in "N" the generator/motor (MG1) can charge the battery if it needs a charge while the engine is running. This mode is called "Active Neutral" and you can shut-OFF and restart with the Key in this mode. Under 6mph in "N" MG1 cannot charge with the engine running and cannot be shut-Off and restarted with the Key. This "N" mode is called "Passive Neutral". If you shift to "N" under 6mph the FEH will remain in EV or engine running and not charge the battery till you shift out of "N".

The only charging in EV mode by regen (MG2) is in "D" in the '09 FEH. Shifting to "L" will restart the engine and take you out of EV.

The SGII is not that complicated and plugs-in just above the brake pedal in the OBD2 connection with the cable provided. After you play around with it and set it up for the FEH, it is simple to operate with the pre-programmed gauges. You must set up the X-Gauges like SoC, but just follow the directions on their website and ask here if you need any help. Members of CMPG get a great discount so follow the SGII offered on this website for the best pricing.

GaryG

Thanks for the info, Gary.

I'm assuming that if I'm coasting, I'm not harming anything to shift to N? I don't really want to try shutting down the engine when I'm in N, although I may experiment a little with that....but if I'm doing 65mph and atop a long downward slope, N is a great way to go...assuming I'm not slowly eating away at my CVT. :p

I'll look into getting an SG. I'm a data geek, and more is always better!!! ;) Especially if it'll augment the HEV page on the NAV.

JimmyD

Over 6mph in "N" the generator/motor (MG1) can charge the battery if it needs a charge while the engine is running.
GaryG
Gary,
Does charging in N occur only if SoC is low or under a certain point? Usually when I coast in N on the highway I see SoC dropping pretty quickly (which is why I use D most of the time). Usually I'll be in the high 40's or low 50's SoC on the highway.

Thanks,

Rick

Gary,
Does charging in N occur only if SoC is low or under a certain point? Usually when I coast in N on the highway I see SoC dropping pretty quickly (which is why I use D most of the time). Usually I'll be in the high 40's or low 50's SoC on the highway.

Thanks,

Rick

Good question! My '05 does not drop SoC and even charges anytime the engine is running and the battery needs a charge above 6mph. What I'm seeing in the '09 is that MG1 stops charging or very little changing is done after 48%. Wayne made a comment in a post that the FFH was also eating up SoC during highway driving and my first thought was the amount of MG1 charging was so low that the 12V system was taking more than MG1 output and the HV battery was being used. The '09 uses much more 12V use and you can really tell it coasting in "N" in EV. Also, there is very little juice coming from regen MG2 in fuel-cut going to the HV battery. I think that's because MG2 is powering MG1 to hold the idle during fuel-cut and the HV battery is providing power to the 12V system.

It didn't take me long to see that coasting in "N" when the engine was running is bad for MPG in the '09. Notice that my post all now say coast in "N" in EV only and "D" when the engine is running. My comment in my last post was that MG1 can charge the battery in "N" above 6mph with the engine running, but your right, at the upper limits of the SoC it may not be enough to carry the 12V system.

In my '05 FEH I was able to increase MPG by coasting in "N" on the highway with the engine running and it's still a great technique to get over 40mpg at 65mph. When I got the '09 FEH I stopped that right away in it.

GaryG

In my '05 FEH I was able to increase MPG by coasting in "N" on the highway with the engine running and it's still a great technique to get over 40mpg at 65mph. When I got the '09 FEH I stopped that right away in it.

GaryG

Ok, Gary....

Can you give me a 'how to' for increased mpg on the highway? I have a 75 mile rount-trip commute and it's almost all highway. Any walk-thru you can give would help out greatly. Thanks.

JimmyD

Ok, Gary....

Can you give me a 'how to' for increased mpg on the highway? I have a 75 mile rount-trip commute and it's almost all highway. Any walk-thru you can give would help out greatly. Thanks.

JimmyD

Hi Jimmy,

First of all you must know how to take advantage of every condition like hills, overpasses, headwinds, crosswinds, tailwinds, weather, traffic and etc.. Second, properly set-up your FEH.. My tires are at 50psi cold, oil is clean 5W-20 and not overfilled, air filter and battery filter are in good shape, and I constantly monitor MPG for any changes and why.

Highway P&G is great with neutral in prior models but Fuel-cut in "D" seems to be best in the '09 FEH. Your wind and weather dictate the best acceleration (Pulse) Instant MPG rate and you know the glide is in "D" for fuel-cut is also dictated by the wind and weather. All of this is also conditioned on the traffic.

In other words, you control the reactions to your conditions and there is no set technique that works. They all work as a bag of tricks like tools correcting problems. You have a 35 mile commute both ways which is 70 miles total each day. You have many choices during your trips that many here don't have because it's those short trips that are killing our average. Whenever I get a long trip like yours, I'm happy because I know I'm going to bring up my tank average.

GaryG