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View Full Version : High court to hear Automobile CO2 case.


xcel
06-27-2006, 06:00 PM
Big 3 would have to invest heavily in alternative fuels or increase Fuel Economy. (http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060627/AUTO01/606270378/1148)

Detroit News - June 27, 2006

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/501/Hummer_H2_Pic.jpg
Hummer H2 - possibly the worst GHG emitter available.

WASHINGTON - In a high-stakes case for the troubled Detroit automakers, the U.S. Supreme Court said Monday it will decide whether the Bush administration must regulate carbon dioxide from cars to fight global warming.

California and 10 other states, joined by environmental groups, appealed to the nation's highest court after losing a lower-court bid to force the Environmental Protection Agency to regulate carbon dioxide from vehicles as a pollutant harmful to human health. They argue that the EPA must treat carbon dioxide as a pollutant under the federal Clean Air Act because it is the primary "greenhouse" gas causing the earth to heat up.

"Autos are the second-largest source of greenhouse gases in the U.S.," said senior attorney David Bookbinder of the Sierra Club, one of the environmental groups suing. "We can't tackle the problem of global warming without dealing with cars. The auto companies and oil companies debate this. It's like the tobacco companies arguing that cigarettes don't cause cancer."

If the court's ruling led to the EPA regulating auto-related carbon dioxide, Detroit's Big Three and other automakers could be forced to invest even more heavily into hybrids and other alternative-fuel vehicles and rush out smaller, more fuel-efficient vehicles to consumers.

Generating huge amounts of investment capital could be hard for the domestic automakers, whose stocks have been hammered on Wall Street.

"If it led to a significant increase in fuel economy - causing a significant change in the model mix very quickly - that would be very damaging for the industry," said David Cole, chairman of the Center for Automotive Research, an independent auto research group based in Ann Arbor. "But ultimately laws tend to be reasonable and attainable, and not really compromise what consumers want. If they don't, then you'll see new lawmakers.

The Supreme Court is expected to hear arguments in the case in the fall and then issue a decision by next June.

Rep. John Dingell, D-Dearborn, one of the chief architects of the Clean Air Act, said Congress intentionally wanted to regulate fuel economy issues through Corporate Average Fuel Economy (CAFE) standards.

"I don't have any trouble with the Supreme Court taking this case," Dingell said. "I am satisfied and comfortable with the law. (Supreme Court justices) have a muddled decision out of the Court of Appeals, and not infrequently when they get a muddled decision, they want to clarify where it's a matter of importance."

Gloria Bergquist of the Alliance of Automobile Manufacturers, which represents Detroit's automakers and some foreign makers, said carmakers already are taking voluntary steps to reduce carbon dioxide, such as offering a wider range of vehicles running on alternative fuels and working to cut emissions from its plants 10 percent by 2012.

"Mandates can lead to more costly vehicles and reduce the types of vehicles available," said Bergquist, the vice president of communications for the automakers trade group. "That can especially be hard on farmers and tradesmen who depend on certain types of vehicles."

General Motors Corp., DaimlerChrysler AG and Ford Motor Co. did not comment on the decision by the court to take up Massachusetts v. Environmental Protection Agency.

Calling the upcoming ruling "potentially serious" to the Big Three, Russ Harding, the senior environmental policy analyst at the Mackinac Center for Public Policy, a nonpartisan research institute, said the court should let the market solve conservation problems through consumer choice.

"Already people are starting to abandon SUVs and moving to fuel-efficient vehicles because of the price of gas, which is going to continue going up," Harding said.

"It is easier for the automakers to adjust to change in the marketplace over time, gradually. They can drop some models and change the mix. (With an unfriendly ruling) they could find themselves in a short time frame having to come up with a significantly different mix. And that would be added to the difficulties (domestic automakers) already have."

The EPA said in a statement that the agency "is confident in its decision" not to regulate the chemical under the federal Clean Air Act and plans to argue its case vigorously before the high court.

President Bush has rejected calls by the environmentalists and some lawmakers in Congress to regulate carbon dioxide. Bush favors voluntary actions and development of new technologies to curtail such emissions.

In their appeal, the states maintained the case "goes to the heart of the EPA's statutory responsibilities to deal with the most pressing environmental problem of our time" - the threat of global warming.

Plaintiffs in the lawsuit were California, Connecticut, Illinois, Maine, Massachusetts, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, Oregon, Rhode Island, Vermont and Washington.

AZBrandon
06-27-2006, 08:36 PM
It's an interesting case. On the one hand, you have the viewpoint that it's a free country and you shouldn't have states going around taking away the freedoms guaranteed us by the constitution. On the other hand, the 10th amendment says that states can do whatever they want, so long as it doesn't conflict with federal powers.

I'm personally inclined to think that on the surface of it, the states have a better case about being able to regulate their own CO2 laws if they want to, regardless of how they do it. I mean, if they want to say that no one can buy a car in any colors except red and yellow for safety reasons, I would think they could go right ahead and do it. Might not be popular with voters, but then again, that's self-correcting since you can just vote in people who will change the law.

I'm curious to see how they go with it, and what the reasoning is for the majority decision.

xcel
06-27-2006, 09:24 PM
Hi Brandon:

___The thing I would like the Alliance of Automobile Manufacturers to go after the States for is this. All of these states raised the federally mandated 55 mph limits from a generation ago to limits I consider a shameful waste in terms of resources and emissions of both GHG’s and SMOG related ones. With that, do you really think the states listed really give a **** about CO2 emissions due to automobile fuel consumption?

State|Rural Interstates (mph)|Urban Interstates (mph)|Other limited access roads (mph)|Other roads (mph)
California|70/trucks 55|65|70|65
Connecticut|65|55|65|55
Illinois|65/trucks 55|55|65|55
Maine|65|65|65|60
Massachusetts|65|65|65|55
New Jersey|65|55|65|55
New Mexico|75|75|65|55
New York|65|65|65|55
Oregon|65/trucks 55|55|55|55
Rhode Island|65|55|55|55
Vermont|65|55|50|50
Washington|70/trucks 60|60|60|60

___Although I believe CAFE’ standards are a means to an end; I did speak with the AAM representatives about this situation during the 2005 Chicago Autoshow – Press Event hoping they would in turn take a swing at the States at the appropriate time. As usual, there are always two sides to most every story :(

___Good Luck

___Wayne

AZBrandon
06-27-2006, 10:54 PM
Well considering a Honda Civic doing 80mph still gets better fuel economy than any pickup truck or SUV doing 55mph, I'd have to say that speed limits and CO2 limits are a separate issue. If everyone was driving Civics already, then maybe think about lowering quality of life by reducing speed limits. In the mean time, work on CAFE and CO2 limits.

xcel
06-27-2006, 11:31 PM
Hi Brandon:

___Whether someone drives a Civic or an SUV, that is their choice but a lower speed limit is the best way to reduce GHG emissions immediately whether that impacts ones quality of life or not. In fact, the SUV driver doing 55 vs. 80 mph will save far more fuel over the life of the vehicle then the Civic even though he or she is using far more fuel to begin with.

___My take on the article is this. If a state truly wanted to reduce GHG emissions, the only immediate way is to increase FE by lowering speed limits. The two are directly related to one another whether ones quality of life is impacted or is not.

___Good Luck

___Wayne

AZBrandon
06-28-2006, 12:40 AM
Actually history has proven that lowering the speed limit has little to no effect on actual speed traveled, and thus little to no effect on total fuel consumed. I believe the most recent estimate was that it may cut consumption by 2.2%, but when folks see their monthly cost of fuel go down by driving at a more efficient speed, they're more likely to buy a less fuel efficient vehicle. You actually encourage the purchase of less fuel efficient vehicles if you artificially improve fuel economy. That's the law of unintended consequences. Raising CAFE in concert with raising the gas tax would be far more effective means of lasting improvements of much more than 2.2%.

Chuck
06-28-2006, 08:59 AM
A lot of developments limit home owners on the colors of the house, the height of the grass, if they can have pools, etc.....it seems consistent that vehicles can be regulated too. They already are.

My take is a "constructionist" justice in theory would dispassionately look at legal precedents and the recent evidence that excessive CO2 is a pollutant, then rule it is. People are human, and keep in mind these constructionist justices sympathize with the Bush Administration, meaning they might find a way to say excessive CO2 is not a pollutant.

If only there was a way the people that choose to commute in a 5-liter vehicle had to keep their CO2 and other pollutants to themselves, we might get sea change.

brick
06-28-2006, 10:52 AM
If only there was a way the people that choose to commute in a 5-liter vehicle had to keep their CO2 and other pollutants to themselves, we might get sea change.

Ha. I kind of like that. Just legislate that all exhaust emissions must be vented into the cabins of new cars starting in the 2012 model year and see what happens to pollutants.



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