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The Insight was a halo car - an icon of the ultimate fuel mizer. Now that it's about to become history, there ae some things besides the car itself that will be missed.


It was the first hybrid sold in America. (Prius was first in the world {Japan})
It is one of the few aluminum body cars on the market. It might have been the most affordable aluminum car available.
It was distinctive (some might say ugly or strange)
It was one of the few lean-burn cars built
It will be awhile before anyone exceeds the overall FE on the Insight - it won't be beat by the Fit anytime soon...
I'll probably miss this the most - a hybrid with a manual transmission. This is the saddest thing. Automatic transmissions are better than they were in the 1970s, but 5-speeds are still superior. Can only hope the market demand for 5-speeds is better than I think....

Also overlooked: The maximum GVWR was so low (360 pounds, IIRC) that the average American was over the limit with just a driver, passenger, and simple luggage for a weekend trip.

Hi Chuck:

___One thing for sure, I am missing mine and it will be a huge loss for the entire hybrid and FE enthusiast community when they are finally retired :(

___Brandon, although her GVWR was breached after 360 #’s, she could hold a bit more then that and still receive FE in the mid to high 90’s no matter what her specs were posted as! I had to take my oldest son to U of I more then a few times in her while the rear hatch loaded up to the glass with college junk. She handled the load just fine ;)

___Good Luck

___Wayne

is there a big weight difference between 5spd and CVT?

Hi Phil:

___Yep, 94 #’s.

___Good Luck

___Wayne

___Brandon, although her GVWR was breached after 360 #’s, she could hold a bit more then that and still receive FE in the mid to high 90’s no matter what her specs were posted as! I had to take my oldest son to U of I more then a few times in her while the rear hatch loaded up to the glass with college junk. She handled the load just fine ;)
Well max GVWR isn't for FE, it's for safety. It's designed in conjunction with the load rating of the tires, manufacturer expectations for braking ability, and maintaining proper suspension geometry when fully loaded. This is why many pickup trucks have a solid rear axle and/or load balancing rear suspension with airbags so they can maintain the same suspension geometry from zero load to full load.

All Hondas tend to have a huge camber gain curve, so a seriously overloaded Insight would have much more than the manufacturer specified acceptable rear negative camber and reduced available rear travel and ground clearance as well as progressively longer braking distances due to both the heavy load and increased negative camber. I'm sure most folks probably don't exceed the load rating by more than 100 pounds even with two large male adults and lots of stuff in the hatch however, so it's probably still within reasonable levels. It's still amusing though; two 180 pound guys going somewhere in an Insight put it right at the max weight rating.

Well I can say with great certainty that at the TDS, Wayne and I certainly exceeded the GVWR. We are fat asses. Just think what two 100 lb women could have done.

Hi Brandon:

Well max GVWR isn't for FE, it's for safety. It's designed in conjunction with the load rating of the tires, manufacturer expectations for braking ability, and maintaining proper suspension geometry when fully loaded. This is why many pickup trucks have a solid rear axle and/or load balancing rear suspension with airbags so they can maintain the same suspension geometry from zero load to full load.

All Hondas tend to have a huge camber gain curve, so a seriously overloaded Insight would have much more than the manufacturer specified acceptable rear negative camber and reduced available rear travel and ground clearance as well as progressively longer braking distances due to both the heavy load and increased negative camber. I'm sure most folks probably don't exceed the load rating by more than 100 pounds even with two large male adults and lots of stuff in the hatch however, so it's probably still within reasonable levels. It's still amusing though; two 180 pound guys going somewhere in an Insight put it right at the max weight rating.
___Do you know how the EPA tests a vehicle in the FTP75 and HWFET? The Dynamometer load is adjusted based on a number of factors including its weight. Do you understand why Honda tried so hard to keep the 05 AH’s weight down? A few more pounds and the dyno load was going to be increased a significant amount. Look at the 06’s for the result. Do you do any towing upwards of 2 to 3 times a week? I have also driven an Insight with > 360 #’s stuffed into it. Do the dynamics change as additional weight is added? Sure does. Hopefully you also understand how higher tire pressures help a given tire handle a vehicles extra weight. The Insight is a darling that will be missed whether one were to exceed the load rating or not. How does the Insight 5-speed w/out A/C have the same load rating as that of the CVT based one with an extra 125 #’s anyway? And how can the Independently suspended Honda Ridgeline tow 5,000 #’s without a solid rear axle?

___The Insight was a master of fuel efficiency when in its element. Whether you have driven an Insight and/or appreciated it for its FE prowess, it is a fact. This extremely fuel efficient and lightweight 2 door coupe with a minimal list of amenities was not a desirable automobile to most at $21K w/ a stick and A/C. This was the real issue, not that it only had a 365 # load cap way back in 2000 through today. She will be missed by this member more then most others more then likely :(

___Dan, hey! I am down to < 2 cans of Pepsi a day now. You know, trying to get down to competition weight for our next tandem event ;)

___Good Luck

___Wayne

The Insight was a halo car - an icon of the ultimate fuel mizer. Now that it's about to become history, there ae some things besides the car itself that will be missed.

I'll probably miss this the most - a hybrid with a manual transmission. This is the saddest thing. Automatic transmissions are better than they were in the 1970s, but 5-speeds are still superior. Can only hope the market demand for 5-speeds is better than I think....[/LIST]

i'm with you on that one, flyer. if they don't make a 5 speed hybrid again, i'm gonna have to drive my 2005 until one of us croaks......

I guess we should keep an eye for Insights in the junkyards....

Hi Brandon:

___Do you know how the EPA tests a vehicle in the FTP75 and HWFET? The Dynamometer load is adjusted based on a number of factors including its weight. Do you understand why Honda tried so hard to keep the 05 AH’s weight down? A few more pounds and the dyno load was going to be increased a significant amount. Look at the 06’s for the result. Do you do any towing upwards of 2 to 3 times a week? I have also driven an Insight with > 360 #’s stuffed into it. Do the dynamics change as additional weight is added? Sure does. Hopefully you also understand how higher tire pressures help a given tire handle a vehicles extra weight. The Insight is a darling that will be missed whether one were to exceed the load rating or not. How does the Insight 5-speed w/out A/C have the same load rating as that of the CVT based one with an extra 125 #’s anyway? And how can the Independently suspended Honda Ridgeline tow 5,000 #’s without a solid rear axle?

___The Insight was a master of fuel efficiency when in its element. Whether you have driven an Insight and/or appreciated it for its FE prowess, it is a fact. This extremely fuel efficient and lightweight 2 door coupe with a minimal list of amenities was not a desirable automobile to most at $21K w/ a stick and A/C. This was the real issue, not that it only had a 365 # load cap way back in 2000 through today. She will be missed by this member more then most others more then likely :(

___Dan, hey! I am down to < 2 cans of Pepsi a day now. You know, trying to get down to competition weight for our next tandem event ;)

___Good Luck

___Wayne
I don't know where to look up the dyno load parameters for the EPA tests, but can you verify if they test at "curb" weight, or at gross weight? Like I said, the GVWR is for safety and incorporates a lot of factors such as the tire selection, brake sizing, suspension design, and so on. It's possible the CVT models have slightly different spring rates for the front suspension to compensate for the additional weight. Only someone intimately familiar with the design would know for sure. The bottom line remains the same; just like tire manufacturers publish a maximum safe tire pressure, automakers publish a maximum safe vehicle load. If you'd like to ignore it, that's between you and those that that may miss you when you're dead.

As for the Ridgeline and towing, load is weight on the vehicle itself. Typically you don't want tongue weight to exceed 10% or so of the total weight. For a 5000# trailer that means "only" 500 pounds on the rear of the truck, which I would expect is well within the load capabilities of a light duty pickup like the Ridgeline. You could certainly check with Honda though to see what the ratings for GWVR and tongue weight are to be sure. Also, I would bet you the Ridgeline has a much less aggressive camber gain curve than Honda's small cars, like the Civic and potentially Insight, which would help to keep the rear wheels perpendicular to the ground. I've seen plenty of slammed Civics and Accords and know they can hit 3 to 5 degrees of negative rear camber, but never a slammed Insight, so I really don't know first-hand how aggressive the camber curve is.