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Real tickets, fines start Wednesday (http://www.azcentral.com/12news/news/articles/0220photo0220-CP.html)

Carol Sowers and Michael Ferraresi
The Arizona Republic
Feb. 20, 2006 12:00 AM

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/501/Scottsdale_Speed_Radar.jpg

The party's almost over for lead-footed drivers on Scottsdale's stretch of Loop 101.

Beginning Wednesday, one month after Scottsdale began using speed cameras on Loop 101, drivers going 76 mph or more will be mailed citations if caught on camera.

The cameras between Scottsdale Road and Shea Boulevard are providing a snapshot of divers' habits.
In the first month of the test program:

• More than 4,300 warning citations were mailed to drivers in the first three weeks. In all of 2005, the Arizona Department of Public Safety issued 1,821 citations. The photo citations were mailed after officials verified that a violation occurred and identified the owner of the vehicle.

• The number of drivers caught speeding is higher on weekends than on weekdays. Through Thursday, an average of 1,308 flashes occurred on weekends compared with 764 on weekdays.

• More than 40 people were sent warning citations for driving 100 mph or more. The top speed of 131 mph was clocked on Tuesday. Scottsdale police have begun arresting and charging some of these motorists with reckless driving.

• From the first week to the third week, the number of flashes dropped from 6,550 to 5,836. Mary O'Connor, Scottsdale's transportation general manager, said the overall decrease is a sign that "we are changing drivers' habits."

The data collected will provide mileposts needed to gauge the success of the nation's first digitally patrolled freeway.

However, not everyone is convinced. The data have drawn mixed reviews from motorists and the program has become a legislative target.

Slowing speed

Scottsdale officials began contemplating freeway cameras in 2003. But because no other U.S. city had digitally patrolled a state freeway, it took time for city officials to get permission from the Arizona Department of Transportation to run the nine-month project.

One thing that may have helped the city's case was installing speed cameras using the same technology as on Loop 101, on Frank Lloyd Wright Boulevard between Hayden and Scottsdale roads in 2004.

In the first year, the cameras snapped one speeder every two minutes. A year later, that dropped to 1.7 every hour.

Bruce Kalin administers Scottsdale's $2 million-plus contract with Redflex Traffic Systems. The company supplies and maintains enforcement cameras on Scottsdale streets and stretch of Loop 101.

Kalin said motorists were less cautious during the city's "widely publicized grace period." But when they begin receiving citations of $157 or more, he is convinced the camera flashes will sink even more.

Mixed reviews

The hard-won deal, approved in December, has received mixed reviews.

Rob Williams, 49, a Scottsdale author of children's books, said he is "for photo enforcement" even though he received a $157 ticket generated by a camera on a Scottsdale street.

Williams said the cameras have made Loop 101 safer.

"I'm glad they are there because my daughter will be 16 and she'll be driving that route to school," he said.

Donna Miller, 49, an optician and part-time cabbie who drives the 101, calls photo enforcement "good and bad."

"I think it makes some people slow down," she said, adding that she is annoyed by the light "of other people's flashes."

Patrick J. McCarville II of Phoenix was allegedly clocked at 110 mph in his Subaru on Jan. 28. He said the cameras aren't accurate.

"I have a four-cylinder, it barely goes that fast," McCarville said. However, city officials say they have verified the accuracy of the cameras and McCarville's speed. He was arrested Friday and will face reckless-driving charges.

The harshest criticism has come from some Republican lawmakers who proposed 13 bills ranging from banning photo enforcement on freeways to detouring more of the citation money to state funds. A bill banning photo enforcement on state freeways passed the Senate last week. "It's amazing what they are doing to try to stop Scottsdale from operating this type of program," Mayor Mary Manross said after a briefing on pending legislation.

Sen. Dean Martin, R-Phoenix, is a leading anti-camera crusader. He said Scottsdale has no jurisdiction on a state freeway. He argued that unlike officers, cameras can't nab drunken and erratic drivers.

The state Department of Public Safety has continued to patrol Scottsdale's section of Loop 101 since the cameras were installed.

Kalin said it would take thousands of officers to do "the job we expect the cameras to do."

Harold Sanders, a DPS spokesman, said the agency's East Valley Bureau, which includes Scottsdale, is stretched thin. It covers more than 100 miles, including Loop 101 to Loop 202 and parts of Interstate 10, U.S. 60 and Arizona 87.

The cameras, Sanders said, free up officers to concentrate on U.S. 60, far busier than Scottsdale with breakdowns and collisions.

Gathering data

Meanwhile, in addition to counting speeders and sending citations, Scottsdale officials are piling up more numbers to gauge the success of their experiment, which has a budget of up to $10 million.

Paul Porell, traffic engineering director for Scottsdale, said the city wants to know whether drivers step on the gas when the cameras are off.

In cooperation with state transportation officials and others, Scottsdale is using radar guns and other tools to monitor the speed and traffic on Loop 101 south of the cameras to Indian School Road and west to Tatum Boulevard.

"One of our concerns is that we don't want to have a negative impact on our adjacent enforcement zones," Porell said.

As Scottsdale nears the end of the nine-month project, officials will gather collision data from a comparable section of Loop 101, likely in the West Valley, and see how they stack up to Scottsdale's stretch of the freeway.

Some critics have said the flashing cameras force drivers to brake suddenly, causing rear-enders. Others believe the cameras will reduce crashes.

Ultimately, the program's fate is in the hands of a panel of experts, including the American Automobile Association-Arizona, the Governor's Highway Safety Council, DPS, ADOT and Scottsdale.

If the experiment is a success, and makes Loop 101 safer, Scottsdale may continue it or turn it over to another agency.

If it doesn't work out, O'Connor said there is another option.

"We could turn the cameras off."

A video article of the Scottsdale Photo Radar news can be seen at ABS News - Who’s Watching When You’re Speeding? (http://abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?id=1650670)

Over 100mph? Surely that isn't going with the flow of trafic.

Hi Tom:

___Although I do not like the idea of Big Brother watching our every move, if Photo Radar slows down the masses, the more fuel saved and lower emissions expelled. I posted this news item for those 2 reasons in all actuality …

___Did you watch the video at ABC News? They showed a bike doing > 130 mph! All I saw was a blur. I wonder if the cameras picked up his plate or not and if they did, I can see it now. You receive a note in the mail to not only pay a fine equal to the equity in your house but the local police impound your bike, your car, and any other transportation device you may have lying around ;)

___Good Luck

___Wayne

Well;

I can see where it will become just more revenue dollars for the City. :mad:

It might slow some people down but I bet if you new the truth it is more directed towards, increased revenue.:(

Now you do-not have to pay police officers to do their job you can just put more cameras out there , and keep those dollars rolling in.

My 2-Cents

Terry

I just see this as a necessary evil for our times. Activities that we think we are anyonomous such as driving, internet surfing, maybe phoning, we take excesses we would not do face-to-face. Some one said: "reputation is what people think you are - character is what you really are when nobody is looking".

In other words society as a whole lacks character. :(

I just see this as a necessary evil for our times. Activities that we think we are anyonomous such as driving, internet surfing, maybe phoning, we take excesses we would not do face-to-face. Some one said: "reputation is what people think you are - character is what you really are when nobody is looking".

In other words society as a whole lacks character. :(

Delta;

Agreed: but Sad: :(

Terry

Hi Delta_Flyer:

___That was a very profound statement!

___If the Photo radar slows the general public down, the better for all of us in so many ways it is not worth mentioning … If the City of Scottsdale uses it as a money grab, expect more BS in future years for all of us no matter where we live.

___I think I heard 29,000 tickets at ~ $150/ in a single month from the video … Talk about a one way revenue stream and the politicians will never give it up no matter what they say to the general public :(

___Good Luck

___Wayne

...being there, done that! :D

A few years ago the province of Ontario started using photo-radar and I believe it cost the NDP (our New Democrats) the next election. They had some stationary ones and some mounted in the back of mini-vans. They would mail you a picture with your ticket. The joke was that someone mailed back a picture of the money to pay, he received a picture of a set of handcuffs from the police (urban legend ? ...maybe).
Now the photo-radar disappeared but we have cameras at some intersections to take pictures of cars going thru the red lights. We also had, many years ago, mechanical speed restrictions on school buses and large trucks, 55 MPH if I remember correctly.
With todays RF technology and transponders cars could carry a black box to log your driving habits and maybe the Insurance companies could establish premiums based on your records.

These are all great ideas that Asia and the third world could easily adopt, but in North America with our obsession with privacy, freedom, political correctness, democracy, etc., I just don't see it happening.

Many other countries have "no car" days when they force people to take public transportation or ride bycicles. Some also have alternate days based on your licence plates where you can only drive half the time.

In North America any form of strong leadership turns into political [or managerial] suicide.:(

I stick with my original statenent: Additional Revenue Dollars $$$$$$$ :mad:

Big Brother

Well, politics is said to be the second oldest profession - and related to the oldest. Couldn't resist adding the "Well" :D

From office to global politics, questionable activities are an invitation to be taken advantage of. Politicians are probably not worred about the ethics of an opponent that misused money or cheated on his wife - it's an opportunity to exploit their vunerabllity.

It costs a lot of money to get up speeding cameras. Only reason it's being done is so many speeders gave them an opportunity. This does not sound like an oppressive government.

Im glad my lifes atleast half over and I dont have to spend 80 years looking at the crap the world is turning into. I will be in that area this spring. Think I will have some fun with those Big Brother idiots.

Caught an update at the gym

Number of Scottsdale drivers going over 75mph: 15%
Number of Scottsdale drivers going over 75mph now: 2%
Accidents reported in Scottsdale: down 54%

So what's all the fuss? Just do the limit or below, and you'll be just fine. Just do what you are supposed to do, what's so hard about that?

I really like the part about the arrests. Wow, I might feel safe again? Others might feel safe driving a small car again? People who drive at high rates of speed on public highways are psychopaths who have no regard for the well being of others.

Get em Kodak

Louis B

The current system of police stopping people for speeding clearly isn't having much effect. So we need some other methods. Cameras apparently work. If someone came up with another method that slowed traffic to anywhere near the speed limit I'd favor that too.

What has always mystified me is the disconnect between fining someone and where the money goes after it is collected. For example, a football team or player is fined for breaking a rule: good. But then the money from the fine disappears into the organization running the sport??? That has never made sense to me.

Ditto for traffic fines vanishing into the general fund. For conflict of interest reasons it shouldn't go into the police budget. But maybe into hospitals or emergency services? Or into something else that would be appropriate. The funds should be used to combat the potential effects of the violation, for instances where the violation was not caught in time and dire consequences resulted.

Automated speed monitoring is used all over the UK.

When I've been stopped for speeding, the radar gun seems to be 1-2mph under my actual speed, so I imagine they would do the same in Scottsdale.

I view this just like situations at work when employee's abuse things or in a family when children go too far - lots of our rules and laws exists when too many can't behave. Corporately, it's the driver's own fault for setups like in Scottsdale.

The current system of police stopping people for speeding clearly isn't having much effect. So we need some other methods. Cameras apparently work. If someone came up with another method that slowed traffic to anywhere near the speed limit I'd favor that too.

What has always mystified me is the disconnect between fining someone and where the money goes after it is collected. For example, a football team or player is fined for breaking a rule: good. But then the money from the fine disappears into the organization running the sport??? That has never made sense to me.

Ditto for traffic fines vanishing into the general fund. For conflict of interest reasons it shouldn't go into the police budget. But maybe into hospitals or emergency services? Or into something else that would be appropriate. The funds should be used to combat the potential effects of the violation, for instances where the violation was not caught in time and dire consequences resulted.

Here's the rub on 'violations':

As stated before, the goal of citations is revenue. The reason why the 'stopping people for speeding' doesn't work is many-fold, with too many of them being about going after people who do not have the resources to fight back against a traffic ticket.

Now, in many states, the traffic citation has become "a civil matter" instead of a "law enforcement" one - and the rules change because of it. In those states, people have to pay the fine (some places call it "place the money in escrow") before they can challenge it.

The tickets themselves often have "surcharges" attached to them: In some municipalities, it includes Emergency Services, Administrative Fees, and maybe some popular program that helps seniors or children in the area. But note that this is on top of the actual "violation" - and cannot be challenged or removed. Since municipalities are being hammered on "speed traps," this is the new cash generator. And when the "speed cameras" stop bringing in the easy money (and they all do), the cameras will start making "mistakes" that happen to be in favor of the city.

The other problem with Photo Tickets is the "false positive" issue. With a police officer on the scene, the driver is confirmed, the car's VIN is confirmed, the license plate/registration is confirmed, and the violation is stated at the time it occurred. Photo tickets can (and do) get cars and drivers wrong, but since these tickets carry "the weight of the law" behind them, and will probably have a cost-prohibitive procedure to challenge the ticket, it means bad blood in the end.

I wonder which company got the contract for installation and operation of the cameras. They will be making a pretty penny at the expense of the rest of us.

Hi PA CivicCX:

___Welcome to CleanMPG.

___I cannot speak for other states and municipalities but I can speak for Wisconsin’s State troopers. It might worth a review.

Guidelines for motorists who are stopped by the State Patrol (http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=136)

___Good Luck

___Wayne

Oh man I just got an awesome idea. Instead of making all the new Freeways in Austin tollroads, they should have just put speed cameras on them.

All jokes aside, it would be pretty idiotic to be going 80 and then get 5 or 10 speeding tickets in the mail. At least with cops you get pulled over, and then watch your speed afterwards.

Oh yeah, haven't they been doing this in Britain forever and a day now?

We've had these cameras in Norway for 10 year, at least, and it is becoming more and more clear that it is a fiscal instrument rather than traffic security. Some years ago the government actually officially balanced their budget against speeding fees.

I have been photographed once by them, and that was very unfair. At a dark and moose-crowded stretch north of Oslo, I was the last of 3 cars. I tried to stick to the cars passing me to exploit the light and safety of having cars in front of me, as my lamps were not the brightest in the world. We were going about 96 km/h in a 90 km sone that changed to a 80km/h sone. The speedcamera flashed me, as the last one. Then the middle car overtook and disappeared rapidly, and the first car speeded up too. (Obviously locals that knew the camera by hart already, and the camera triggered on me because of minute individual differences in speed between the cars, as we were driving close to the minimum triggering speed of the camera.)

I, the passive and responsible driver of the lot, got stuck with the 300 dollar fine (today that would be 500 dollars..)

I've hated them ever since.

Today I have one of these genial gps'es in my car. It always show the actual speed with clear digits, and warn me about those tax-cameras so that I can plan ahead.

http://www.adteknik.se/swedish/gps.htm