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(1) We prefer to drive with 4000lbs instead of 2,500, (2) we insist on 0 to 60 in under 10 sec. instead of 15, (3) the weight of airbags and other safety reinforcements, (4) our collective love of inherently fuel-inefficient light trucks as commuters (http://www.newsweek.com/id/130439)

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/501/1988_Civic_CRX_HF.jpgKeith Naughton - Newsweek - April 4, 2008

The author is right on in his analysis, although he finds an 80's gas mizer like the CRX-HF distastful, even though I survived 250,000 miles in one like in the picture and enjoyed 50-60mpg when in good running condition -- Ed.

So gas just hit another miserable milestone. Unleaded regular is averaging a record $3.30 a gallon and seems likely to blast past $4 by Memorial Day. Wouldn't it be great if you could drive a car that gets 50 miles per gallon? Well, you can. Just hop on a plane and fly to Europe, where all new cars average 43mpg, or Japan, where the average hits 50mpg. Here in the United States, we're stuck at 25mpg in our considerably larger and more powerful cars, trucks and SUVs. So why can't we do better? Here's the dirty little secret: we can. "If you want better fuel economy, it's just a question of when auto companies want to do it and when consumers decide they want to buy it," says Don Hillebrand (http://www.newsweek.com/related.aspx?subject=Don+Hillebrand), a former Chrysler engineer who is now director of transportation research for Argonne National Labs. "Auto companies can deliver it within a year."

A 50mpg car would certainly put a tiger in the tank of the moribund U.S. auto industry. But don't get your checkbook out quite yet. The reality is that you won't see a car on a showroom floor in America with 50mpg on the window sticker for at least three years and maybe longer. Sure, all auto companies are focusing on jacking up fuel economy, especially since Congress just mandated that all new autos sold by 2020 must average 35mpg. The new mileage mantra also is motivated by the fact that car sales are weak, partially because of panic at the pump. But putting out a 50mpg car any time soon is daunting even to the maker of America's mileage champ, the 48mpg Toyota Prius (http://www.newsweek.com/related.aspx?subject=Toyota+Prius). "We're close enough to spit at that now," says Bill Reinert (http://www.newsweek.com/related.aspx?subject=Bill+Reinert), Toyota (http://www.newsweek.com/related.aspx?subject=Toyota+Motor+Corporation)'s national manager of advanced technologies. "It's not an incredible stretch, but it's an incredible stretch to do it on a mass-market basis."…http://www.newsweek.com/id/130439

Typo in the subject title :D 50MPG

I averaged 48 to 50 in a festiva that I had in college, and that was plain mechanical valves and a carborator. I don't understand why a honda VX cannot be built today. Why not a ford festiva. The new fit and yaris, are small, but the milleage payoff just isn't there. I'll drive a corolla, or a civic first, comfort matters.

Auto makers need to step up to the plate! I still don't understand why we don't get more miles per gallon.

Danbudy.

It can be done, and is.

Especially in Asia and Europe.

Ford is still making the Fiesta in other markets than the US.

I love my Opel rental in France. I experienced 62 MPG (after you convert) when I drove to Berlin, Germany. And I Love the Autobahn, as you can go as fast as you want, you can also go as slow (within reason)

However in Taiwan, being in Taipei after a crew change, we were drove around in a Mercedes A series, which is at 40. So.

It is done, just not here in the states.

and also... where could I pick up a CRX-Hf?

Sounds like a fun, and rewarding project car.. or a curse! ha

If we didn't need to be able to accelerate quickly to 45 and 55 mph in town, we wouldn't need such powerful, fuel-guzzling automobiles as we have now.

We don't see many 50 mpg cars here, or bicycles, or NEVs, because our speed limits are too high.

You know, as dumb as everyone says Bob Lutz is, I gotta admit that I'm very surprised he hasn't just said "**** it, let's put weak engines in all our cars and make our SUV's get 30mpg and our cars get 40mpg but make them do 0 to 60 in 20 seconds"

That would be very interesting to see what would happen. Would GM die quickly? Or would they put everyone else out of business? Sounds like a sliders episode to me.

Why has nobody suggested more gears? The Civics ans such only have ~100-125HP. My '89 Daytona had plenty of pep but the low gearing wrecked the FE.

Build the same cars with 6 or 7 speeds. A couple low gears for grunt and sport if its wanted, 2 midrange, a high gear or two and a very high geared overdrive. That'd be worth 5-10 MPG right there, no matter the engine.

Hi Warthog,

That is what Mercedes and VW are doing. That Mercedes station wagon has 7 gears, and I though I read someplace about DSG Rabbits with 6.

The effective gearing range of the Prius is one of the its tricks to get 10.5 sec 0-60 times out of 110 hp in a 3200 pound vehicle.

My personal experience with re-gearing motorcycles with different rear wheel and transmission output shaft sprockets has shown me that there are diminishing and even negative returns with super tall overdrives.

It seems to me that there are two factors in play. Low engine rpm means low friction and pumping losses. High rpm means low thermal losses.

Gasoline engines are heat engines. They convert heat into energy. The pressure rise in the cylinder when the fuel is ignited is the result of the air in the cylinder suddenly being very hot. Every BTU of heat that transfers from the hot air to the cylinder head, cylinder walls, and piston crown is a BTU of heat that the engine will not be able to convert into 778 ft-lb of mechanical energy.

One way to minimize the thermal leakage is to expand the compressed hot air before it has time to cool off. That means high rpm.

Another way is to minimize the combustion chamber's surface area. That's why long stroke "undersquare" engines have made a comeback in car engines.

The larger the cylinders, the less surface area per unit of volume. That's why it's better to use three large cylinders instead of four small cylinders to achieve a given engine size. Twins and singles would be better still.

Thus, the best engine rpm is a trade-off between the low friction and pumping losses of low rpm and the low thermal losses of high rpm.

So, don't expect super tall overdrives to turn a 35 mpg car into a 50 mpg car. The engineering students who compete in SAE gas mileage competitions using custom built cars mostly all choose to use intermittent engine runs rather than putt along in a super high gear for that reason.

and also... where could I pick up a CRX-Hf?

Sounds like a fun, and rewarding project car.. or a curse! ha
I did not see them much on ebay and it's a good bet they go quicker.

A good second-hand 5-speed Insight is essentially a hybrid CRX-HF with airbags and up to 30% better fuel economy. :)

So, don't expect super tall overdrives to turn a 35 mpg car into a 50 mpg car. The engineering students who compete in SAE gas mileage competitions using custom built cars mostly all choose to use intermittent engine runs rather than putt along in a super high gear for that reason.

So they use P&G?? Cool!!! :D


A good second-hand 5-speed Insight is essentially a hybrid CRX-HF with airbags and up to 30% better fuel economy. :)

Just 30%? ;)

One of my greatest auto regrets is not treating my 99 CRX-HF better. Drove it at times like the CRX Si pocket rocket. :eek: An incompetent tune up resulted in a near engine meltdown and 30% loss in power/FE. :( At 1800 lbs, its almost identically the weight and size of the Insight...the engine is 1500cc instead and probably not LEV. It's 1st gear was so high lugging was inevitable unless you were starting down an incline.

I averaged 48 to 50 in a festiva that I had in college, and that was plain mechanical valves and a carborator. I don't understand why a honda VX cannot be built today. Why not a ford festiva. The new fit and yaris, are small, but the milleage payoff just isn't there. I'll drive a corolla, or a civic first, comfort matters.

Auto makers need to step up to the plate! I still don't understand why we don't get more miles per gallon.

Danbudy.


VX was 8 valve 4 cylinder so its NOx emissions would fail after 2005, just as TDI failed in 2007. Kind of wondering which is worse...55mpg with NOx or getting 25mpg and burning 2x the fuel...same thing eh?

Anyway, I agree with you 100%. Get rid of these airbag, side impact, front impact, **** i dont want. I want an unsafe 1992 honda civic vx. My choice, ill sign a waiver from the manufacturer if needed saying i take all liability in injury or death. Its worth the risk.

Maybe we should think out of the box on car safety - could there be a way to be safe and lighter?

What about strech bumpers with long crumple zones that are also streamlined? Maybe airbags can be reinvented?

B.L.E.- The reason I suggested more gears and taller overdrives is that most engines and cars are tuned for 45-60 mph as optimum constant cruise. If an engine's happiest at 2k rpm and it has the power to maintain 70mph or more at that speed, why not throw in an extra gear specifically for those going 70-75 mph on the interstate instead of either regearing the entire tranny with tall gears or sacrificing the FE on the interstate?

If, we could do this, everybody's FE would go up, even without much help.

I want an unsafe 1992 honda civic vx.
:eek::p

A 4 star rated Honda Civic like new VX type car with the 2005 HX engine and a 6 speed MT would be awesome!

My minivan goes 0-60 in 16 seconds, and it seems fast enough! Yeah, they should make high FE slower cars here!

Ok... hats off to an "automotive" journalist for writing about FE, but man... I'll have to take a breather after some of the stuff he was railing in that piece.

-Really railed on the Smart.
-Made SUVs sound like the safest thing since a bomb shelter (we know better).
-Drank the volt Koolaid that a 100 mile trip burning 1 gallon gas and 10 kWh elect = 100 mpg (it doesn't).

I'll need to cool off before I dig into this one.

11011011

and also... where could I pick up a CRX-Hf?

Sounds like a fun, and rewarding project car.. or a curse! ha

Here's one:
http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?car_id=239952997&dealer_id=53967471

11011011

Maybe we should think out of the box on car safety - could there be a way to be safe and lighter?

What about strech bumpers with long crumple zones that are also streamlined? Maybe airbags can be reinvented?

More people die today then in the days before airbags and crumple zones and ****. Of course the population is up 33% since 1970, but im not going to tell anyone, im like the media....More people die today then in the days before airbags (because there is more people and more cars). :D

So get rid of airbags and crumble zones and side impact bars and get me a geo metro 50mpg. :flag: go GM.

More people die today then in the days before airbags and crumple zones and ****. Of course the population is up 33% since 1970, but im not going to tell anyone, im like the media....More people die today then in the days before airbags (because there is more people and more cars). :D

So get rid of airbags and crumble zones and side impact bars and get me a geo metro 50mpg. :flag: go GM.I hope nobody here mistakes me for many in the general population that wants passive safety to do all the work while driving like an idiot. Wish my CRX was still running in good condition - I'd still drive it.

Extended bumpers - isn't that what bajoos has on his Civic? Why not just make them that way and make them into great crumple zones too?

America is adverse to taking responsibility, but demanding drivers to earn their license would make as much of an impact as airbags. News have reports of repeat DWI's injuring/killing - legally keep them from coming back until they GET IT. Move in the direction of Germany and make getting/keeping a license something that is not taken for granted.

This is my most controversial idea - many new cars already record hard-braking, speed, the usual ScanGage data, etc...enhance that to sharp turns and other reckless driving behavior. At every inspection the data is downloaded. Allow the state and insurance companies to make surcharges on drivers with a long track record of aggressive/reckless driving habits.

a lighter car has less ke, so we just need to stop making cars so heavy.....too many amenities imo. we need to have options, i.e, the same car without all the additional luxury features that make it so darn expensive. as long as it can provide some heat in the winter, then there is no issue there.

a lighter car has less ke, so we just need to stop making cars so heavy.....too many amenities imo. we need to have options, i.e, the same car without all the additional luxury features that make it so darn expensive. as long as it can provide some heat in the winter, then there is no issue there.
They'd be reluctant to stop this practice as they make a load of money on the extras. Mind you, i would buy an "Eco Pack" if there was one available. It could include a grille block, a belly pan, a scanguage, narrower wheels...........:woot:

ollie

I hope nobody here mistakes me for many in the general population that wants passive safety to do all the work while driving like an idiot. Wish my CRX was still running in good condition - I'd still drive it.



My bad, my intent in quoting you wasnt to make you look like joe american idiot. I just wanted to build off your suggestions.


So I was reading Autoweek, they had a review of the 2008 accord. It said in 1976 when the first generation accord came out, it had a smaller wheel base than the 2007 Fit. How sad our society has become with overstuffing our cars full of crap that isnt needed.

No offence to anyone intended but america is getting bigger.

No offence to anyone intended but america is getting bigger.


Check out the buffet style restaurants....they are not hurting in this economic downturn in my experience (seems more people are packing into my local china buffet than ever)