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Car manufacturers don't recommend such frequent changes for many vehicles -- and all that used oil is bad for the environment. (http://www.latimes.com/classified/automotive/highway1/la-hy-wheels27feb27,0,883356.story)

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/501/Jiffy_Lube_3_000_Mile_Oil_Change.gifRalph Vartabedian - LA Times - Feb. 27, 2008

I cannot believe this is still being promoted by the big oil change franchises :angry: -- Ed.

"Has it been 3,000 miles yet?" asks a banner hanging outside a Southern California quick oil change outlet.

The message -- also conveyed on stickers placed by many quick oil change shops inside customer windshields -- is to hurry back for another oil change.

But the state of California has a different message: Unnecessary oil changes are wasting money for consumers and creating millions of gallons of hazardous waste in the form of used oil.

Instead of listening to the advice of the car service industry, state officials are asking motorists to follow the recommendations of vehicle manufacturers printed in the owners manuals, which often specify oil changes at 7,000 miles or more. The officials say this would save 21.6 million gallons of oil waste a year.

Although environmental issues have played a role in consumer car-buying behavior, the concern seems to dissipate when it comes to car maintenance -- despite a fairly large toxic stream that results from the operation of the vast majority of motor vehicles.

It's not that consumers are pollution happy. But they are guided by conventional wisdom, handed down from generation to generation, that frequent oil changes can vastly improve the life of their car's engine and reduce costly repairs… http://www.latimes.com/classified/automotive/highway1/la-hy-wheels27feb27,0,883356.story

"An additional 14 million gallons disappears [each year], presumably dumped into the ground or storm drains by backyard mechanics"

14 million gallons gets dumped into the environment EVERY YEAR? That's worse than the one time 11 million gallon Exxon Valdez spill!! :mad:

"An additional 14 million gallons disappears [each year], presumably dumped into the ground or storm drains by backyard mechanics"

14 million gallons gets dumped into the environment EVERY YEAR? That's worse than the one time 11 million gallon Exxon Valdez spill!! :mad:

Depends on how you want to look at it.

In most cases it will be again sequestered back into the ground in a landfill. Modern landfills are a closed system and any oil is sealed away. That much less in our atmosphere.

Every ounce put back in the ground is more than an ounce less co2 in the air.

I take your final point worthywads, because some recycled engine oil is burned at sea as 'heavy bunker oil'. Some auto garages also get their winter heat from burning oil. Neither of those seems ideal, given that there can be a bit of lead (etc) in the oil from bearing wear. Seems hard to discover what proportion of oil turned in for recycling actually becomes motor oil again.

However I am sure that the major concern is for 'open dumping' of discarded motor oil on the soil or in storm sewers. Its ability to render groundwater unfit to drink is quite remarkable.

As for modern landfills not leaking, I have many reasons to hope that you are correct.

It seems consistent with the CleanMPG ethic to generate the smallest amount of waste oil consistent with good engine maintenance. Not all however may choose my complicated suggestion: Use a high-quality synthetic that is capable of long oil change intervals, and figure that out for your engine with used oil analyses.

I think it more prudent to assume that anything put in a landfill *will* find its way into the ground water, hence the need for hazardous waste collection days by our city's health department. Like Tochatihu, I see your point about the down side of burning waste oil, however, if the waste oil is filtered and burned properly *and* displaces a similar amount of fuel oil that would have been burned anyway, then I think that's not as negative an act.

My $.02.

cheers,
Bill

By law, in New York State any garage that works on cars is obligated to take used motor oil at no charge. I take my used oil to the local Wal-Mart auto service center.

There's no excuse for disposing of used motor oil improperly.

Harry

Hi All:

___Great reply’s and by all means, recycle this stuff at your local oil change place if you do it yourself.

___Secondly, I thought it was funny that the following ad showed on top of this thread this morning ;)

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/501/Jiffy_Lube_Google_Ad.jpg

___Good Luck

___Wayne

re: jiffy ad

Ooh! I hadn't seen that! I run Firefox browser with Adblock. :-) Thanks for the post, Wayne. I can always use a good laugh.

cheers,
Bill

p.s. I don't do my own oil changes any more. Getting lazy.

Oh, this is so annoying. I tell the guy at Jiffy Lube during the 2 or 3 times I'm there every winter that my oil gets changed at 5000 mile increments per Toyota, and every time he sticks that stupid 3 mos/3000 mile sticker on my windshield (not that it stays there). My manual doesn't say anything about 3000 for severe driving; just 5000 miles. So they are actually recommending something other than what the manufacturer recommends.

And what's with the 3 months thing still being used? I know that any synthetic is OK for longer than 3 mos. I'd bet that any modern dino oil is OK beyond 3 mos, too.

Change your oil when it needs to be changed. Better yet run a quality synthetic and a sub micron oil filter and you may never change your oil.

I get my oil analysis from these guys.

http://www.blackstone-labs.com/

I worked for my municipality in college. They recycled waste oil from the residents and had 2 storage tanks that connected to a filtration system oil burning furnace during the winter. It seems like a better solution for the city to lower its heat bills, lower taxes of course, and not spend tons of money and wasted resources to truck used oil all over the place when its perfectly useful in its current state as a heating fuel. That was the first time i realized what recycling of oil means...its pretty cool.

P.S. get a tdi, 10K mile oil changes (5w-40 mobil1 TDT)

In theory a good synthetic oil should never need to be replaced. Bump up your filtration capacity and ability, run a good syn, check it every now and then don't change your oil till it needs to be replaced. In theory that could be never.

Are there any current cars that actually need a 3,000 mile interval? (per the owner's manual) My 12-year-old Civic calls for 7,500.

I get my oil changed with standard maintenance (5,000 miles as recommended by the Prius' manual). One such sticker that a dealer put in recommended that I come in after 4,000 miles. Sigh.

My Yaris calls for a 5k mile drain interval but I run the 15k mile Mobil1 EP stuff.

You let it go 15k? I assume you buy and return the oil or something for the warranty record?

I have always changed my own oil and greased it myself. My schedule is mine also. I change the oil based on its looks and how it has been driven. During the summer months when the engine is running hotter with the air conditioning and idling in slow traffic, I will change it more often. When the oil changes color from clear yellow/oarnge to a darker brown, I change it. On average I change the oil at around 4,000 miles, but the oil can stay cleaner longer and I have gone as long as 8,000 miles. Also, getting under your car can be very instructive. Just last week, while changing my oil, I noticed that both of the anti-sway bar struts were broken, completely not connected, on the 4 Runner!

Greasing the 4 Runner is another interesting story. Two dealers have told me that the car needs no greasing. Yet there are 9 grease fittings factory installed on the drive shafts (rear & 4 wheel drive), universal joints and CV joints. I read up on it and have developed a greasing period and procedure now for the 4 Runner's drive train. Something else I found out by getting under the car!

The manual for my Elantra calls for a 3K change interval but much of it is filled with antiquated procedures as well so I'm not surprised.

You let it go 15k? I assume you buy and return the oil or something for the warranty record?

Correct. My local Kragen has it set up.

I follow the maintainance minder on my Civic. OCI of 5100, 6000, 7500, 6500, 8000, and 9500. Full synthetic since the second fill.

The only thing I changed before its time is the MTF at 49,500. A new formula has better cold properties and better FE.

(FWIW, most owner's manuals say follow the maintainance schedule no matter the oil. Even "long interval" synthetics will suffer fuel dilution and wear contamination, even if they are more resistant to thermal degradation. IMHO, spoofing oil changes is also known as fraud.)

-mr. bill

During the summer months when the engine is running hotter with the air conditioning and idling in slow traffic, I will change it more often.

Bob, oil holds up better in hot weather than in cold. For my Civic, the oil change interval is 7,500 miles, except for "severe duty," which is listed as dusty conditions and short trips in cold weather. For severe duty, the oil change interval is halved.

I use nothing but full synthetic, Mobil 1 usually, and I don't think I'm pushing it by going with 7,500 mile intervals year round.


Harry

IMHO, spoofing oil changes is also known as fraud.

Doh! I misunderstood the original question so my answer looks like a fraud setup. :p

No, I don't buy and return oil every 5k miles, nor do I attempt to "spoof" oil changes. I just buy the oil myself so that I have a receipt, and I also get a receipt when I take the used oil in for recycling. The actual change is done by my neighborhood Jiffy Lube as I know the Manager. This way I have records all the way through, from 2 different sources, just in case it ever comes to a warranty issue that needs to be fought out between Toyota and ExxonMobil.

The 15k interval lets me go for about 10 or 11 months between changes.

Doh! I misunderstood the original question so my answer looks like a fraud setup.

...

just in case it ever comes to a warranty issue that needs to be fought out between Toyota and ExxonMobil.



I figured. FWIW, in the *unlikely* event you have an engine warranty claim, any battle between Toyota and ExxonMobil will have one and only one result - you lose. One look at the ExxonMobil Warranty (http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Oils/Mobil_1_Extended_Performance_Warranty.aspx) should give you pause. The conditions under which your Limited Warranty can be honored are improbable.

Even before the details, you get this notice: "Be advised that if your vehicle is covered by a warranty, you should follow the vehicle's oil life sensor or the oil change interval recommended in your owner's manual to avoid a disruption in your vehicle warranty."

Next, the devil in the details.

1st, you are only covered for a *defect* or *malfunction* of the lubricant. Improbable.
2nd, you have to file a claim within 6 months of discovery *AND* within 6 months of damage.
3rd, your records have to show that the lubricant was the cause of the damage.
4th, you have to provide a sample of used oil.

Those are the *INCLUSIONS*. (Vanishingly small.)

Then there are the *EXCLUSIONS*.

1st, "abnormal operation." The chances of you successfully defending hypermiling as "normal operation" are vanishingly small.
2nd, you have to follow the OEM required lubricant standards to the letter. If you decided to go with a lighter weight oil than recommended by Toyota, done.
3rd, *ANY* other product or additive not been authorized by ExxonMobil. Unfortunately, that includes your ScanGauge II and trickle chargers, even though it shouldn't be so expansive.
4th, "pre-existing" condition. Even includes a *PRE-EXISTING* condition caused by ExxonMobil lubricants over six months ago.


The only good news for your is the incidental or consequential damage waiver might not apply to you. But no worries, you are more likely to win a state lottery if you haven't bought a ticket than to worry about this waiver.


Disclaimer - I'm not a lawyer. But if you are going with 15K OCI, *YOU* are taking a substantial risk, and ExxonMobil is taking an improbably small risk.

-mr. bill

I appreciate the warnings, mr. bill, but I'm good at getting my way with companies. The Internet is a wonderful tool when it comes to consumer pressure. I also have ties with both newspapers and 1 television station in my area.

Even if I couldn't pressure ExxonMobil into anything I can definitely turn up the heat on my local Toyota stealership. ;)

Wait, what's a warranty??

I run an Amsoil bypass filter and Amsoil 10w30 XL synthetic. I change the full flow filter every 5k, and both filters every 10K, plus I get a blackstone test every 10K. I have 20K on this oil change and Blackstone says the oil is still in great shape. The last run of oil had 65K before I changed it. My accord has 120K on this engine, and I had 130K on the previous engine(stupid Honda cooling fan switch).

Spoofing oil changes = fraud? Is it misleading? Sure. Did anyone actually ask how often the oil gets changed, or did they just see a record of oil purchases and continue looking for the real problem, instead of blaming the change schedule and voiding the warranty?

FWIW, I change mine every 5,000 miles.

My dad always just put the drained oil back into the bottles the new oil came in and then just threw it away. He never knew you were supposed to recycle it till I told him.

Anyways at first with my car I did the 3 month/3,000 miles thing. Then I just started doing the 7.5 month/7,500 mile thing as recommended in the manual. Seems like I only end up with 2.5 to 3 quarts of the original 4.8 when I drain, though no low pressure lights come on or anything. Car's not burning oil, has something to do with oil building up in the intercooler or something. Need to get an oil catch can.

This next time I'm going to take a sample and send it into blackstone labs just to see what the condition is of the oil. It's just regular mobile 1 synthetic.

I need to do an oil analysis...Prius drivers talk about this a lot. With 141K on my Insight - this might be a good idea.

I need to do an oil analysis...Prius drivers talk about this a lot. With 141K on my Insight - this might be a good idea.

I guess all they do is figure out some numbers and then say "Oh you coulda gone another 2,000 miles on this oil" or "Woah you moron, drive 2,000 miles less on this crap oil!"

Oil being "used up" is mostly based on changes in viscosity or decreases in total base number. If the analysis finds fuel dilution, antifreeze, or excessive wear metals in the oil, then it should be changed but also figure out where those things are coming from. A series of UOAs from a particular engine is the best of all, because then you can detect trends.

DAS

Seems like I only end up with 2.5 to 3 quarts of the original 4.8 when I drain, though no low pressure lights come on or anything. Car's not burning oil, has something to do with oil building up in the intercooler or something. Need to get an oil catch can.

Sounds like you need to check your oil more often. Your car is clearly burning or leaking oil. That amount of oil not not really enough to protect your engine fully. It is possible that someday you may go around a corner and the oil pickup will loose suction and the oil light will come on. You never want to engine to be under a load with no oil pressure. The oil capacity is also there to absorb heat. Less oil = less heat dissapation capacity.

If it were my car I would be more concerned about being low than stretching the oil life out without adding anything to replace what is burning.

I guess all they do is figure out some numbers and then say "Oh you coulda gone another 2,000 miles on this oil" or "Woah you moron, drive 2,000 miles less on this crap oil!"

Not with blackstone. Here are a few sample reports. They also keep your reports and will do trend analysis for you to see if a problem is sneaking up on you. For a bit more you can have all kinds of analysis done. I got turned on to them by a guy I know whose brother is in charge of a fleet of taxies in Florida somewhere.

http://www.blackstone-labs.com/gas_report_1.html
http://www.blackstone-labs.com/gas_report_2.html
http://www.blackstone-labs.com/gas_report_3.html
http://www.blackstone-labs.com/gasoline_diesel_report_expl.html
http://www.blackstone-labs.com/eng_balloon_report_.html