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“If you look at what’s great about wagons, the great driving feel and the utility, crossovers have that and the command seating position,” Davis said. That raised seating position gives the driver a better view, which many find reassuring, he said — it gives them “an overall feeling of security.” (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21903490/)

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/501/magnum.jpgDan Carney – MSNBC – Nov. 29, 2007

The raised seating thing...the logic vs emotion wrestle - logic prevails in Star Trek, but loses out with the typical American driver. - Ed

Just a few years ago it seemed so clear — consumers, tired of gas-thirsty, hard-to-park, rough-riding SUVs would return to station wagons, a category of cars that had become increasingly attractive once stripped of the faux wood siding and 9 MPG big-block V8s from the 1970s.

Car makers rushed to meet the anticipated demand with a flood of new models like the Dodge Magnum, the Chevrolet Malibu Maxx and wagon versions of many European and Japanese sedans.

But that fantasy was no more realistic than Chevy Chase eyeing Christie Brinkley in her Ferrari from his Wagonqueen Family Truckster in National Lampoon’s “Vacation.”

The anticipated wagon wave, alas, crashed ashore against the hard rocks of reality and is now receding. Sales in the segment collapsed from 250,000 cars per year when the Dodge Magnum was introduced in March 2004 (as a 2005 model year car) to just 120,000 this year, according to Steve Bartoli, vice president of global product marketing at Chrysler. The market could bottom out around 100,000 wagons per year, he predicts…http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21903490/

What "wagons" are available today? Saab, VW/Audi, and Volvo come to mind, but apparently not M-B any more.

Is this really a collapse of sales of wagons or is it simply a reduction in the number of "wagon" models available and /or adding AWD to wagon bodies and reclassifying the result as "crossovers"??

I can understand the need for taller luggage room that many station wagons lack - that's a legit objection...the "need" to look down at other drivers is not a real need.

I've said it before and I'll say it one more time: I love station wagons. If and when I need something "big" it will be another wagon. Given their junk-hauling capacity with little or no fuel economy penalty over an equivalent sedan, they make it nearly impossible to justify an SUV for a practically-minded buyer.

I've heard more than one guy explain his choice of vehicle, a gas-hog pickup truck: "I like sitting up higher."

My Taurus wagon got 31 mpg highway with the AC running. That isn't great, but is way better than any SUV or crossover.

Harry

You would not need a raised seating position if every 9 out of 10 vehicles surrounding you was not 8 foot tall.

I once had a 1987 Mazda 323DX wagon. While the vehicle itself was one big repair bill on wheels the cargo space it had was great, rivaling what I have in the Yaris. I could fit all of the diving and camping gear for 2 adults in there without breaking a sweat, and for 3 adults with a little bit of creative packing. It also had good fuel efficiency due to a 1.3L engine.

Due to the reliability problems I couldn't keep it but if things had been different I likely would have driven that car for another 5 or more years.

I drove a GM Acadia crossover for a day last Summer (one of the many GM rental cars I went through while my Yaris was in the body shop for that door replacement) and I didn't care for it at all. The engine was over-sized for the application and would make the back end jump off track and roll the whole body to the right if you goosed it too much, the steering was grossly under-responsive due to the car frame's original steering and frame support mechanisms supporting an extra 800 pounds of body and suspension (that was real fun coming down Mount Rose... never had a pucker factor like that before on the mountain when the conditions were clear and dry), the seat was set so high that it felt like I was sitting on a phone book and I found myself slouching in order to drop my view line, and it ate twice as much fuel as a vehicle of its size should.

No thanks.

Once again I find myself diametrically opposed to the "bigger is better" way of life.

I've said it before and I'll say it one more time: I love station wagons. If and when I need something "big" it will be another wagon. Given their junk-hauling capacity with little or no fuel economy penalty over an equivalent sedan, they make it nearly impossible to justify an SUV for a practically-minded buyer.

I totally agree. While the Matrix I think is considered a crossover, I've always thought of it has a hatchback Corolla or Corolla wagon... I love the cargo space. My wife uses it daily to haul things for her work, and it works perfectly WITH pretty good fuel economy. Personally I don't like the 'command' seating position. Its just about the only thing I didn't like about the car when I first started driving them. I quickly got used to it, but I still like the position my Paseo gives me. Its a very short car and you lay back quite a bit.


You would not need a raised seating position if every 9 out of 10 vehicles surrounding you was not 8 foot tall.

This is also a big one.

I can understand the need for taller luggage room that many station wagons lack - that's a legit objection...

And is adequately addressed by the purchase of a mini-van. People rationalize their purchase of a pick-up or SUV as need for space or visability or better safety, when the real reason is that SUVs, Trucks, and Crossovers are cool and/or manly. Station Wagons and Mini-Vans are not. At least in most people's opinion.

I liked my mini-van, and I like my wagon. I don't care what anyone else thinks about it. That's why I got the basic Subaru wagon rather than an Outback, I didn't need the extra aura of a sport utility wagon. Now they call all their wagons Outbacks...

And is adequately addressed by the purchase of a mini-van. People rationalize their purchase of a pick-up or SUV as need for space or visability or better safety, when the real reason is that SUVs, Trucks, and Crossovers are cool and/or manly. Station Wagons and Mini-Vans are not. At least in most people's opinion.

I liked my mini-van, and I like my wagon. I don't care what anyone else thinks about it. That's why I got the basic Subaru wagon rather than an Outback, I didn't need the extra aura of a sport utility wagon. Now they call all their wagons Outbacks...

I totally agree. My cousin and his wife, mainly his wife is looking to get an SUV. They have three kids and she doesn't want to be a 'soccer mom' and drive a minivan. So, they're looking at a suburban or something else gigantic that will return horrible mileage... I don't understand it at all. Its not even like they have extra cash to spend on a huge beast of a car that will not only cost more, but cost more to operate. But, that doesn't matter for some reason.

They shouldn't use the Magnum as an example of a station wagon that failed. It's just a bad car to begin with. I had the pleasure of being upgraded to this for a rental since all the economy cars were gone and it stunk. Horrible viewing area out the windows and made me feel like I was in a tank. Just didn't feel like a wagon to me.

Agreed - the Magnum is not the best representive of a stations wagon.

About the small windows...just make the image taller in PhotoShop and what does it look like? ;)

Love 'em or hate 'em, SUVs are genius in marketing. Someone twenty years ago realized baby boomers were going to be having a mess of kids but had done their research to figure out that they wanted more style and dominance on the road -- these are, after all, folks who grew up idolizing muscle cars and big iron. They realized image was everything, practicality nothing. And they realized if you tweak a truck body a little bit, not only could you sell a million of them for whatever price you want, but it takes almost no additional expense to build one.

Baby boomers happily bit, hook line and sinker. And now we're infested with them. So much for individuality.

I think the marketing of SUVs towards Boomers wasn't just based on a positive -- more style and dominance on the road -- but on a negative: the station wagon.

For the Boomers, one of the ultimate symbols of sedate familyhood and conformity was the station wagon. Everyone in 50s tract suburbia had a wagon in the driveway, and that's what everyone in their parents' generation drove.

And you don't do well by trying to sell Boomers something that reminds them that they have become their parents. I've seen people physically recoil when I say the words "station wagon". [nevermind that SUVs are actually wagons. It's all about labeling.]

And you don't do well by trying to sell Boomers something that reminds them that they have become their parents. I've seen people physically recoil when I say the words "station wagon". [nevermind that SUVs are actually wagons. It's all about labeling.]

My wife was surprised when I told her I wanted to buy a mini-van back in the early 90s. But I figured since I was a young father of two, that was what fit the bill. And the kids sure liked it.

When I was a kid, I wished my parents had a station wagon. I was tired of being cooped up in the back of the small sedans we had. Of course back then the kids would get to scramble all around the back, nobody was strapped in...

I've loved the wagons and minivans I've owned. I don't understand why anybody would choose the sedan body over an available wagon style but almost everyone chooses the sedan. When I come upon minivans in traffic I usually don't mind anywhere near as much as SUVs because they are low enough and their windows are typically low enough that you can see through them and get some idea of what traffic is doing unlike the view blocking walls that most SUVs become.

I totally agree. While the Matrix I think is considered a crossover, I've always thought of it has a hatchback Corolla or Corolla wagon... I love the cargo space. My wife uses it daily to haul things for her work, and it works perfectly WITH pretty good fuel economy. Personally I don't like the 'command' seating position. Its just about the only thing I didn't like about the car when I first started driving them. I quickly got used to it, but I still like the position my Paseo gives me. Its a very short car and you lay back quite a bit.

This is also a big one.

The reason I feel in love with the Dodge Caliber was because the Caliber looks so close to a small SUV with small car like mpg. I like the fact all the seats except the drivers seat can be folded flat in case I/you need to haul something. It is bigger car to boot as well.

Station wagons, minivans, and SUVs are all just breeds of the same species. They are all enclosed people and stuff movers.

SUVs generally have some sort of four wheel drive.
Minivans are almost always front wheel drive using sedan drive trains.

SUVs and minivans have very unright seating positions that most people find more comfortable than the reclined seating position in old-style station wagons.

Sitting up higher give one a better view of traffic and takes away one excuse for accidents.

One always has to be on guard for extremism.

The most fuel efficient vehicle for moving one human being through space is the street luge. Minimal frontal area and weight.

The most fuel efficient speed is zero. In the Road Load equation aero drag goes up with the cube of the speed and every other expression of the HP required has 'V' in it somewhere. If V=0 then Road Load HP = 0.

We have to allow that people drive cars and trucks to accomplish a mission. A stationary street luge uses zero energy but gets nothing done. A car that is uncomfortable for people to drive will never get used. They'll use something else.

I love me a wagon! but the price and FE of the yaris was too hard to pass up, I looked at the matrix, impreza wagon, and mazda 3 5 door (never sat in a focus wagon(thoes were just ugly IMO)) when I started looking for a replacement for the camaro before the b cars started coming over to the states

We have to allow that people drive cars and trucks to accomplish a mission. A stationary street luge uses zero energy but gets nothing done. A car that is uncomfortable for people to drive will never get used. They'll use something else.

No argument there. However most here would promote a mini-van over an SUV for moving people and stuff because it can do so more efficiently. If you really need a large engine to tow, or 4wd to get off road, then by all means go for it. But most people don't need the added power and traction of 4wd in an SUV, they just prefer the image.

I've also heard too many people say they like sitting up high. ?? So an SUV with higher center of gravity and more prone to roll is more safe in their heads. Crossover's don't have much of a luggage height advantage either because the drivetrain/tires are usually larger bringing the bed of the back up too. The increased height is a major factor in lowering mileage, it increases the frontal surface area so more wind needs to be pushed. I love how wagons carry a lot of stuff and people but with a frontal surface area and drivetrain equal to a sedan, pretty much equal the sedan's mileage.

I hear so many odd statements sometime I just think there's nothing that will ever get people thinking logically about vehicles. "I like having a V8 in case I need the extra power". "I like sitting up higher than other drivers". "I want to be the one on top in an accident" (that's empathetic), "My truck shouldn't have to shift down when I pull this huge camper up a mountain (therefore I need 380 HP, 650 ft/lbs.)".