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"It's much easier to transport electrons than octane molecules." (http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/10/29/business/cars.php)

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/501/Hymotion_Escape_PHEV-50.jpgJohn Markoff – International Herald Tribune – Oct. 29, 2007

HyMotions’s FEH PHEV conversion - Entrepreneurs are already thinking beyond the auto manufacturers and private conversion PHEV/BEV prototypes when Electricity will be driving personal transport across continents, not just across town. -- Ed.

SAN FRANCISCO - Shai Agassi, a Silicon Valley technologist who was in competition to become chief executive of SAP, one of the world's largest software companies, has re-emerged with a grand plan to reinvent the world's automobile industry around battery-powered all-electric cars.

Others are developing green cars, like the Tesla and Chevrolet Volt. However, Agassi is not planning to make cars, but instead wants to deploy an infrastructure of battery-charging stations in the United States, Europe and the developing world.

The new system would sell electric fuel on a subscription basis and subsidize vehicle costs through leases and credits.

"We're basically saying this is just like the cellular phone model," he said. "If you think of Tesla as the iPhone, we're AT&T."

On Monday, he planned to announce in New York that he has raised $200 million from private venture partners, including Israel Corp., a large Israeli transportation and technology holding company, and Vantage Point Venture Partners, as well as a group of private investors including Edgar Bronfman Sr., the liquor magnate, and James Wolfensohn, former head of the World Bank… http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/10/29/business/cars.php

Thanks for the find Johnf514!

Things like this go farther to help the problem than anything else. All the talk and promotion and propaganda is useless until the infrastructure exists to support alternatives to petroleum based fueled vehicles. This includes alternative fueling stations for not only electric but other fuels like bio fuels.

I guess its a peeve of mine that all these celebrities are making movies, and having press conferences and showing off their hybrids, but that is all they seem to be doing. With the money some of these celebrities have they could invest in alternative fuel stations, including electric, and actually be part of the solution with real impact. They would probably even make more money. I just don't understand why they don't.

Ah, no, I don't think so. How are they helping the problem?

There's a huge difference between companies in the oil or auto industries who are pretending to do something, or pretending to be planning to do something someday, and selling themselves as 'green' on that, which is essentially lying - and people who are trying to actually do something, whether in those industries, or in this case, relative outsiders.

As we move to a time where cars are clean, there will be ideas that work, and ideas that don't. I don't know if this company is going to be a significant contributer, or if they're just a joke, but I think it's good that they're trying. And their plan is to make an infrastructure, or part of the infrastructure, so why complain about there not being an infrastructure?

And the progress towards clean cars that has been made, didn't happen by market forces, or wishful thinking. It happened because thoughtful people both in the auto industry, and consumers made it happen. And celebrities who could drive ANYthing, who choose to drive a hybrid, are in my mind, part of the solution. Could anyone do more? Of course, everyone could do more. But who are we to judge, when we are not doing all we can?

-Gren


Things like this go farther to help the problem than anything else. All the talk and promotion and propaganda is useless until the infrastructure exists to support alternatives to petroleum based fueled vehicles. This includes alternative fueling stations for not only electric but other fuels like bio fuels.

I guess its a peeve of mine that all these celebrities are making movies, and having press conferences and showing off their hybrids, but that is all they seem to be doing. With the money some of these celebrities have they could invest in alternative fuel stations, including electric, and actually be part of the solution with real impact. They would probably even make more money. I just don't understand why they don't.

I don't understand your reply.

One of the factors inhibiting the acceptance of EVs is the high cost of the battery packs.
As mentioned in the article, the financing of battery packs separate from the car itself is a good idea for both the consumer and the car manufacturer. I have seen mention that GM are looking at this for the Volt. I am not sure that battery swapping will work but the setting up of numerous charging stations is extremely important. The government of Kanagawa Pref. have a similar plan to set up a fast charge station every 3km

Good Luck
Andrew

And the progress towards clean cars that has been made, didn't happen by market forces, or wishful thinking. It happened because thoughtful people both in the auto industry, and consumers made it happen.

-Gren

Sounds like market forces to me.

I don't understand your reply.

I believe what he's saying is celebrities don't know which company will succeed and which will not. What they are doing is using their image and popularity to spread the word about alternatives.

I believe what he's saying is celebrities don't know which company will succeed and which will not. What they are doing is using their image and popularity to spread the word about alternatives.

OK. I think people got the message about why, and what. We don't need anymore movies wasting resources promoting this, especially when some of the movies have lies in them. I'd rather see the millions spent on these movies go towards real solutions. Invest the money in new technology, EV car companies, research, EV/Hybrid conversion companies, alternative fuel stations, alternative power sources, and more importantly stop making movies on going on PR tours when your carbon footprint is HUGE!!! :mad:


I may just be me, but I think hypocracy is part of the problem, not the solution. Why is it Bush has a green house and Gore doesn't? I was told by a guy not long ago that if I really cared I would buy a Prius, and soon if things go well I would be required to buy a hybrid like the Prius. I don't really have anything against the Prius, but the fact is there are a lot of people who will NEVER buy a Prius. Now if the car companies actually took a look at what people are buying, and built cars these people want, that also happen to be hybrids or bio fueled we might actually see a significant shift. This of course also has to follow a build up of the infrastructure. Hybrids are easy to operate, they just need gas. Until there is universal access to alternative fuel/power sources for transportation where people actually live and work the alternatives are just NOT practical.


Sorry, I'm just sick of hearing rich celebrities spending money on promotion of an idea, yet they don't seem to be doing much to actually solve the problem. I'll be impressed when I hear of them getting of their rich lazy buts and doing something to make it easier and more affordable for the rest of us be green!

I may just be me, but I think hypocracy is part of the problem, not the solution.



As is close-minded negativity

I don't understand your reply.

Basically, I disagreed with everything you said. And I also disagree with your later post.

Just so you know, Camrys and Altimas and Civics (all very popular cars) now come as hybrids. So, at least some companies are building what "people want". And while there has been some shift (the Prius itself is actually a pretty well selling car), they are by no means a total global solution. They are just a start, a step in the right direction. Unfortunately, most people buy non-hybrid versions of these cars. And some people, believe it or not, even continue to buy SUVs and Pickups.

I think there are a lot of people who get themselves all worked into a lather about other people's carbon footprint, and call that hypocrisy.

I don't see hypocrisy as the problem. It seems to me, that what you call hypocrisy, I call people making smart choices, and/or trying to get the word out about an impending crisis. It's not Gore's job to save the world. It's not any Hollywood movie-stars job to save the world. Not anymore than it is mine, or yours. It is, actually, the governments job. Why we expect something out of Hollywood, but not our elected leaders, I have no idea...

I think the problem is carbon. I'm not sure what's worse, the pollution, or the global warming, or all the money we're sending to the middle east, or the lives we have to spend to keep the oil coming. Right now, hardly anyone seems to care about any of it, but time will tell, we are a capricious people. I personally think global warming is going to be disastrous, so I'm hoping for more movies - because most people just don't seem to get it, and the steady drip drip drip of info in the news isn't sinking in (or maybe people are watching something that's not quite news).

Let's just pretend for a moment, that global warming is going to be really bad, really soon. In this scenario, which do you prefer:
- a guy who managed to warn you in time to fix the problem before it killed your children, who happens to use more carbon than you do, and who used a bunch of carbon to make the movie that warned you, or
- a guy who lives in a very efficient house, but who pushes thru a national energy policy that results in 330million people pushing a huge amount more carbon dioxide into the atmosphere, and backing out of Kyoto, which helped other nations follow down that path, which eventually brings about the worst case scenario of global warming?

Maybe Gore doesn't seem like such bad guy anymore, eh?

So, you can attack other people for trying to make smart choices when they buy a car, or for trying to spread the word about what might be a huge calamity coming, while you drive around in an F350, but I'm not buying it. And before you think I'm attacking you, I'm not. I might feel good about my hybrid purchase, but it still uses gasoline. I'm still polluting. Maybe not as much as the next guy, but if the movie An Inconvenient Truth is half-true, then we all need to cut back WAY more.

And (getting back on topic) batteries will be a part of that. So, maybe, just maybe, this particular company is on to something good.

-Gren

I don't think I attacked anyone for making smart choices when they buy a car. I am all for hybrid, and I wish someone made one that met my needs. I think Al Gore should drive a hybrid, or at least a Bio Fuel vehicle instead of the FLEET of SUVs he travels in along with the private Jet. In general I could care less about Al Gore, but when he makes a movie trying to scare people about climate change, and hold press conferences, and has a TV show, and pushing for legislation, and wins a Nobel Peace Prize, and yet it has been shown that his movie contained lies and he is VERY wasteful in his lifestyle I call THAT hypocrisy. Especially when very few people are talking about the green house that George Bush has.(BTW, I do NOT like George Bush so don't go there).

I ride a motorcyle, if I could get a diesel motorcycle I would buy one and ride that. If I could get a hybrid motorcycle I would. If I could get an electric motorcycle with enough range to get me to work and back I would. The few motorcycles that come close to this are either not practical or they are $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.




The sad thing about your posts, is you don't even realize I agree with you on almost everything you posted.

The sad thing about your posts, is you don't even realize I agree with you on almost everything you posted.

I don't know you, but I've read a lot of your other posts, and you seem a pretty decent and intelligent guy, so while I disagree with you on this one thing, I tried to be as diplomatic as I could. I actually figured that you would agree with some of what I posted, and hoped to convince you of more. So, I took an educated guess about where you're coming from, and put some thought into my posts to try to convince you of a couple points.

But yes, when you call someone a hypocrite, you are attacking them.

You're not the only one here who takes issue with Gore, in fact it seems the popular opinion here, but I just don't agree with it. It keeps coming up, and I find it a huge distraction from the actual issue. I mean, come on, the original post was about a battery company...

I've seen some of the lists of some of the details of the movie, being called stretches, or not backed up, or incorrect, but I find them to be very small points. And nothing approaching "lies". And I haven't investigated enough to find his rebuttal. But again, if most of what the movie warns about is coming, then I don't care if some small detail was fudged. Not even a little bit. Maybe I'm misguided, but I don't think so. Frankly, I'm a little suspicious about the other side.

I don't care to any great extent, if rich people live in big houses, or drive big cars, or fly in planes. I don't think it's for me to tell Gore, or anyone, that they should stop polluting, while I am polluting. And I have no plans to go live in a tree. Let me put it like this: Exactly how much do you think he should be allowed to use? Is it an extreme view? Should he ride only a bike, wear only leaves for clothes, eat only food that he has grown? You're calling him, and others I think, hypocrites for using lot's of carbon; so how much is ok? How much oil shall we allow him? Is it ok if he only uses the amount that you use?

At some point we, as an entire planet, have to get real about this, and cut WAY back, but... how do we decide how much someone else can use? One possible solution to the oil problem, I suppose, is to ration oil - but I don't think that is a good solution economically (to say the least). I don't feel comfy telling people that they can only use this much.

There will always be someone using more oil than you and me, but I suspect that you and I will always be using more oil than most other people on this planet. That make us hypocrites too, yes?

But it just doesn't matter. The bottom line, is that we, as a nation, as a planet, are going to have to figure out how much carbon dioxide we can put in the air, over any given time, and plan accordingly. I just don't think it matters who is a hypocrite, or how great someone else is - we have to do this together.

There's very likely a huge crisis coming, and Gore is out there trying to warn people, and that's a good thing in my book. He can't fly around the world by magic, he has to use a plane, and cars, and whatever. Just like everyone else. I think he's a doing a great job. Correction, not "trying", he's actually warning people, actually making a difference, IMHO. And I'm very grateful of it.

And even if he's totally wrong, I don't care. Because I could really do with something that would get this nation off of middle east oil. I am sick to death of the money we give them, and the young lives spent over there.

-Gren

ps. If you'd read any of my other posts on this site, you'd know that I'm the biggest hypocrite of them all. :)

pps. CARBON TAX!