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Automaker slips to fifth from first place, and some versions of Camry, Tundra and Lexus GS no longer recommended. (http://money.cnn.com/2007/10/16/autos/cr_reliability/index.htm?postversion=2007101616)

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/501/2008_Lexus_GS.jpgPeter Valdes-Dapena – CNNMoney – Oct. 16, 2007

The Lexus GS, Toyota Camry and Tundra not on CR’s recommended list? The first dent in Toyota’s armor. -- Ed.

NEW YORK -- The Toyota brand has lost its top position for iron-clad reliability, according to an influential Consumer Reports survey released Tuesday.

The survey dropped Toyota from first to fifth place - behind Honda, Acura, Scion and Subaru - in average vehicle reliability. The rankings are based on average predicted reliability for all models sold under a given brand.

Brands made by Toyota Motor Co. and Honda Motor Co. still dominate the rankings: Scion is Toyota's low-priced car brand and Acura is Honda's luxury car brand.

Consumer Reports said it no longer recommends V6 versions of Toyota's Camry or V8 versions of its Tundra pick-up because of poor reliability.

In the past, because Toyota products have so consistently proved reliable, the magazine would assume at least average reliability for Toyota's brand new cars, without waiting for survey data from owners.

But from now on, the magazine will wait for a full year of reliability survey data to come in before it recommends a Toyota product - as it does with most other manufacturers.

"We are still, by any measure, a very reliable make," said Toyota spokesman
Xavier Dominicis.

Toyota Motor Co., which makes Toyota, Lexus and Scion cars, makes 44 percent of the cars rated as "Most Reliable" by Consumer Reports, Dominicis pointed out … http://money.cnn.com/2007/10/16/autos/cr_reliability/index.htm?postversion=2007101616

I had a feeling this was coming. I've been participating in the "True Delta" surveys since early this year, and the results thus far are available to participants. While some Toyota models still carry the mark of awesome reliability many of them are doing horrible.

The Sienna and RAV4 are the worst, followed closely by the Tundra and Camry. These 4 are enough to drag Toyota's overall numbers down quite a bit. While the Prius, Yaris, Corolla and Tacoma are still doing very well they are not enough to offset the hit, and the other models like the Matrix and Highlander aren't selling enough to make a statistical dent.

I know the article is mainly about Toyota's skid, but I had to laugh about the domestic market.
Of the 39 cars rated "Most Reliable" in Consumer Reports new list, four are by domestic manufacturers.
Two were the same car (Fusion/Milan) and another, Pontiac Vibe, was a copy of the Toyota Matrix. So really only two cars on the list - Fusion/Milan and the F150.

I don't see what all the fuss is about. I would still take a Toyota over almost any domestic.

and the Fusion / Milan is a Mazda6! So the only one is the F150!

The nice thing to come out of this is the CR is no longer automatically recommending a car based on the previous generation of that car's history. This was a practice that I had issues with.

Toyota used to get a free pass just because it had a Toyota badge, and CR's change in policy better serves consumers and subscribers.

It was only a matter of time. They've had a lot of screwups, and the two most important models in the product portfolio both scored "below average". That has to bite.

I was concerned about this when we bought our Toyota. Old information suggested that Toyota provided outstanding 5/7/8 year wheel to wheel coverage on most/all cars. When I found out they only provided 3 year 36k base coverage, I asked if that was specific to hybrids. I was told that was pretty common now, although the saleman felt it was more of an oportunity to sell the extended warrenty than a representation that the product was less reliable than it used to be.

However I'd still rather have a Toyota than almost any domestic from a reliability standpoint.

Hi All:

___Toyota responds to the drop in CR’s quality rankings …

Toyota Statement In Response To Consumer Reports' 2007 Car Reliability Survey

10/16/2007 Torrance, CA
Toyota, Lexus and Scion models collectively led the industry with the greatest number of models, 17, ranked "Most Reliable" in this year's Consumer Reports Reliability Survey. With dozens of models from three dozen makes vying for a spot on the magazine's "Most Reliable" list, only 39 were chosen. Toyota, Lexus and Scion models accounted for 44 percent of the list.

Toyota, Lexus and Scion earned three of the top six places among most reliable makes. Collectively they ranked third place in reliability among all automakers.

"Over all, this survey reflects well on our products," said Toyota Motor Sales Executive Vice President Jim Lentz. "However, we're taking measures every day to continue to sharpen quality and enhance customer satisfaction."

Toyota Motor Sales (TMS), U.S.A., Inc. is the marketing, sales, distribution and customer service arm of Toyota, Lexus and Scion in the United States, marketing products and services through a network of over 1,400 Toyota, Lexus and Scion dealers in 49 states. Established in 1957, TMS and its subsidiaries also are involved in distribution logistics, motorsports, and research and development.
___Good Luck

___Wayne

IMHO, that sounds like they know quality has dropped, but they won't up and up say it. Wow.

Talking loud and saying nothing. :rolleyes:

Oh well. I guess it remains the case that you have to buy the car, not the brand.

The good news:



TPS (Toyota Production System) has been adopted [in one shape or another] by every single auto maker - every year kaizen ( contin improvement ) rings throughout the land............... finally, finally Toyota has some C O M P E T I T I T I O N in the quality arena.........uwz 'dat mean for the consumer ?

All cars are getting better and better with every cycle, what used to be considered high quality is now average.

thank you Mr Demming

thank you Mr. Fujimoto

I stand in awe of what you have achieved !

I was thinking the same thing, Vooch. More kaizens for Toyota!