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Over 60 USmpg is impressive for this turbo clean-diesel, but why the Prius-bashing? VW just announced they intend to offer hybrid options across their line (http://www.independent.co.uk/living/motoring/features/article2996396.ece)

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/501/2007_VW_Polo_BlueMotion.jpgJohn Simister - www.independent.co.uk (http://www.independent.co.uk) - Sept. 25, 2007

Are we creating too much carbon dioxide for the planet's temperature stability, or are we just beating ourselves up about it? If enough people say we are, then it becomes a truism. And a convenient one for those seeking control and the raising of revenue.

Well, it does no harm to be objective. Ultimately, though, two things are undeniable. Oil will run out, so the longer we can make it last, the better. And whether or not we are undergoing CO2-triggered global warming, the likelihood that we may be doing so poses too big a risk to ignore.

Here, then, is the car to salve our consciences. In the real world the new Volkswagen Polo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vw_polo) BlueMotion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BlueMotion) is the most eco-friendly proper car you can buy in the UK today. It has four seats, it's properly safe, you can use it for all normal car duties, and – unlike an electric car – it converts fuel into energy at the point of use rather than simply moving the process elsewhere via an inefficient intermediate storage system.
… http://www.independent.co.uk/living/motoring/features/article2996396.ece

I hate diesel vs hybrid discussions...among other things it implies a diesel can't be a hybrid, yet VW announced all future models will have a hybrid option (http://www.forbes.com/markets/feeds/afx/2007/09/23/afx4146594.html).

Instead of thinking this Polo "kicked Prius butt", I'm thinking how much better FE it might do with a turbo/diesel/hybrid powerplant....besides that would probably allow them to sell it in the US!!!

you can use it for all normal car duties, and – unlike an electric car – it converts fuel into energy at the point of use rather than simply moving the process elsewhere via an inefficient intermediate storage system.

And just how efficient is that diesel motor? It's nowhere near as efficient as an electric motor.

And, unlike a Prius, the Polo runs very efficiently on a motorway.

What's that supposed to mean? The Prius is inefficient on a motorway? 51 mpg or better is hardly inefficient.

An efficient new diesel vehicle is welcome, but don't bash the Prius, which as been filling the role for years. And there are always the reliability issues of a brand new car model to deal with, something Prius owners don't have to worry about.

Harry

Hi Chuck:

___I am not a fan of the previous Polo and by all appearances, most of Europe was not either. IIRC, VW sold something like 500 of the things in the UK, Germany or the entire continent (I should track that down :() vs. hundreds of thousands of everything else so obviously the old 0 – 60 in 15 second with a goofy start- stop setup and completely void of decent safety gear and amenities did not match up to the European’s taste either. Comparing a Lupo to a Prius is stretching the limits. The Polo is smaller, has 20% less performance, far less safety gear and will never meet the same emissions spec as that of a Prius. If you add A/C and a spare tire, its CO2 emissions are back again over the Prius’? What is up with that? Fortauntely, it is very inexpensive and that in and of itself is a plus. Pushing the lower end to a very fuel efficient automobile is always a good thing and I am glad VW offers the Polo in Europe. If this generation is anything like the last however, you may as well pony up and buy a real car like the Euro Civic or Accord iCDTi or any number of Ford/Peugeot’s or Opel’s. In terms of past Polo sales volumes, the Europeans have done exactly that.

It has a diesel engine, true, but the diesel downside of particulate emissions is fixed by the fitment of a particulate filter.___You will have to do way better then that!

___Per the VW – UK website: Four airbags*, door side-impact protection, ABS, and rear head restraints all come as standard.___Wow, 4 airbags and rear head restraints? I have got to get me some of that! Thank goodness the curtains appear to be an option. No rear electric windows for some reason either?

___The Prius is in a class by itself wrt CO2 and SMOG forming emissions, style, amenities and overall performance by comparison to even the best Euro offerings. Its real shortcomings come about from lack of ergonomic forethought and its highway FE vs. the super diesels now becoming available in Europe. Everything else is just hogwash. Oh, and reliability … I think everyone knows which vehicle we would rather drive for 200,000 miles ;)

___Good Luck

___Wayne

I read about this car in the saturday morning newspaper, looks like a good answer to the 'small cars with bad FE' thread. They've basically done some of the simpler things that come to mind regarding FE, namely some aerodynamic changes, low-resistance tyres, etc. Stuff that many people here consider the first step.

As for this vs. a hybrid? No competition at all. As has been pointed out above, it's hard to compare something which is just coming out (nevermind the fact that it's not available in the US) to something which has been around for years. Both Toyota and Honda have actual, real-life experience with hybrids. It seems that the Prius (and to a lesser extent the Civic hybrid) is the big kid on the block, and everybody is gunning for it.

Oh, and I think the article is refering to Imerial (British) MPG, so 60 MPG(uk) = 50 MPG(us) (roughly).

I think the article says 74 UK mpg and that would be 60 US mpg

I think the article says 74 UK mpg and that would be 60 US mpg

True, but they mention 60 UK mpg as an average. Sorry for the misunderstanding!

@Wayne: This Polo is actually quite expensive here (runs to find the newspaper...). Ok, it costs 14,600 euros before any optional extras. In the same paper there's a short review of a Seat Ibiza 1.4 l, 16V 'sportrider'. It's about the same size, with a 85 horsepower engine, some extras tossed in ('sports' seats, aluminium wheels, foglights, etc.), and costs around 11,600 euros (obviously the FE is worse, but you can get it with a couple of different diesel engines as well). Another example is the Yaris with a 1.4 diesel engine, the FE is about 10% lower, it has ten more HP, more extras and costs a couple hundred euros less.

You are right in saying that most people will choose the Civic or something similar instead of this Polo.

Hi Psic:

___I am going to have to start contacting you via PM wrt any Euro vehicle info as it can be a SOB to get it from here in the US! All I can do is scan the UK and German websites (in English) and do my best to interpret the reality through the tidbits picked up while reading the Euro reviews and such vs. what we have available to us here.

___Thank you for the local input as I for one am always interested in what Europe has to offer ;)

___Good Luck

___Wayne

Hi Psic:

___I am going to have to start contacting you via PM wrt any Euro vehicle info as it can be a SOB to get it from here in the US! All I can do is scan the UK and German websites (in English) and do my best to interpret the reality through the tidbits picked up while reading the Euro reviews and such vs. what we have available to us here.

___Thank you for the local input as I for one am always interested in what Europe has to offer ;)

___Good Luck

___Wayne

Hehe, not a problem at all, feel free to ask away. While specs are usually easy to come by, things like local prices and what's going on in the marketplace is something else entirely.

I hereby request that you post any Euro info somewhere on the site because I bet most of us on this site would like to read it too - me for sure! Perhaps an overseas info section with a Euro subsection? For starters, one thing I've been wondering is how the new Fiat 500 is selling.

I second lightfoot's motion. :)

Hi Chuck:

___I am not a fan of the previous Polo and by all appearances, most of Europe was not either. IIRC, VW sold something like 500 of the things in the UK, Germany or the entire continent (I should track that down :() vs. hundreds of thousands of everything else so obviously the old 0 – 60 in 15 second with a goofy start- stop setup and completely void of decent safety gear and amenities did not match up to the European’s taste either. Comparing a Lupo to a Prius is stretching the limits. The Polo is smaller, has 20% less performance, far less safety gear and will never meet the same emissions spec as that of a Prius. If you add A/C and a spare tire, its CO2 emissions are back again over the Prius’? What is up with that? Fortauntely, it is very inexpensive and that in and of itself is a plus. Pushing the lower end to a very fuel efficient automobile is always a good thing and I am glad VW offers the Polo in Europe. If this generation is anything like the last however, you may as well pony up and buy a real car like the Euro Civic or Accord iCDTi or any number of Ford/Peugeot’s or Opel’s. In terms of past Polo sales volumes, the Europeans have done exactly that.

Are you thinking of the Lupo and not the Polo? I saw lots of Polos in eastern Europe, including Germany, but Lupos were few and far between. Or maybe it was the UK where the Polo doesn't do well, I didn't get a chance to visit there. I don't think the Polo has a start-stop system but the Lupo does.

Hi Sefton:

___Great catch! I was thinking of the Lupo 3L. I have no idea what the Polo sells like although after reading the specs, it is no Prius killer either :(

___Good Luck

___Wayne

We test drove a TDI Jetta the last time we were shopping -- Beatifully designed car. Unfortunately, every time we came to a stop sign, the car tried to lock the doors again. Oh RIGHT... VW v. Honda/Toyota reliability! Sorry, VW loses every time.

For starters, one thing I've been wondering is how the new Fiat 500 is selling.

They haven't started selling it here in Slovenia yet, same goes for Germany (Europe's biggest car market), not sure about the rest of Europe. It will go on sale in October. I remember reading that they have lots of pre-orders already, though, their slovenian website says over 70 thousand in France and Italy alone. IMHO it's a very cute car, I know it got top grades in the Euro NCAP crash tests. Fiat have traditionally been very good at small cars.

Thanks!! I'll be in Turin in November so maybe I'll get to see one there. Better yet rent one!!

Thanks!! I'll be in Turin in November so maybe I'll get to see one there. Better yet rent one!!

Hell, if you're there you might as well visit the Fiat factory :)

Hi Lightfoot:

___Way OT … I do not know about the Fiat 500 but the Civic iCDTi is one hell of a vehicle to drive if you can find one to rent.

___Good Luck

___Wayne

Hopefully we'll continue seeing more and more FE vehicles entering the marketplace.
There will be a continuing debate as to which is better. I for one am pleased to see every one of them, as there are far more than the needed number of fuel hogs out there already.

And please, PLEASE, lets see more of them available in the US. And hopefully bought in quantity by a marketplace that recognizes their value. We here in the land of wasteful consumption have GOT to learn energy frugality. Aarrrrrggggghhhhhh!

Hell, if you're there you might as well visit the Fiat factory :)
Saw Fiat's factory museum when I was there last year and it was extremely interesting. Maybe I'll try to take in the other auto museums in Turin this year, or the Ducati Museum in Bologna...

Hi Lightfoot:

___Way OT … I do not know about the Fiat 500 but the Civic iCDTi is one hell of a vehicle to drive if you can find one to rent.

___Good Luck

___Wayne
Great idea, I'll see if I can engineer that. Wonder if rental companies have them.

IMO, this is the kind of black/white, either/or, one vs another that the media is so fond of. Don't think in terms of multiple solutions or complexity. (Hypermilers are dare devil extremists who do crazy stuff-- but it really saves gas. So we are pretty familiar.)
They love to try and put down the Prius that's another favorite activity.

--des