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View Full Version : Bioelectricty goes 80% farther with half the footprint of Ethanol


Chuck
05-15-2009, 08:52 PM
http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/../photos/data/2/AmericanFlag.jpg "It's simply the case that bioelectricity is just a lot more efficient than using ethanol, in most ways" (http://nytimes.com/2009/05/10/automobiles/10PUMP.html)

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/501/ethanol-fueling-b.jpgBrian Walsh - Time (http://www.time.com) - May 8, 2009

Maybe it's time the EPA rethink sustainable biofuels. -- Ed.

Once touted as an environmental and economic cure-all, corn ethanol has had a rough year. The collapse in grain and oil prices, preceded by overinvestment in refineries over the past few years, badly hurt ethanol producers. Meanwhile, environmentalists have steadily chipped away at ethanol's green credentials. Far from being better for the planet than gasoline, many scientists now argue that ethanol actually has a sizable carbon footprint, because when farmers in the U.S. use their land to grow corn for fuel rather than food, farmers in the developing world end up cutting down more forests to pick up the slack.

Now a new study makes the case that ethanol isn't even the greenest way to use biomass as a fuel. In an article published in the May 8 issue of Science, researchers from the Carnegie Institution, Stanford University and the University of California-Merced (UCM) used life-cycle analysis — which takes into account the entire impact of a biofuel from field to vehicle — to show that converting biomass to electricity (to power electric cars) produces 80% more transportation energy than turning it into ethanol (to power a flex-fuel car), with a carbon footprint that is half as small. (Bioelectricity is created the same way fossil fuel–generated electricity is: Biomass is usually burned to generate heat, turning water to steam and driving an electrical generator.)...http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/10/automobiles/10PUMP.html

ILAveo
05-15-2009, 09:54 PM
Am I stating the obvious to observe that zero per cent of bio-electricity goes to transportation uses? (OK, more like 0.0000001%) It is likely to be quite awhile before that changes by much. (sorry:()

Their comparison of something that we don't know how to do practically, large scale vehicle biofuel power through electrification, to something we do know how to do, fuel cars with ethanol, seems misguided.

The desirability of replacing some coal with biofuels versus the desirability of replacing some petroleum with biofuels seems like the real near term trade-offs that they should be comparing. There's no need to confuse the issue with speculation/wishful thinking about electric cars.

Chuck
05-16-2009, 12:20 AM
Am I stating the obvious to observe that zero per cent of bio-electricity goes to transportation uses? (OK, more like 0.0000001%) It is likely to be quite awhile before that changes by much. (sorry:()

Their comparison of something that we don't know how to do practically, large scale vehicle biofuel power through electrification, to something we do know how to do, fuel cars with ethanol, seems misguided.

The desirability of replacing some coal with biofuels versus the desirability of replacing some petroleum with biofuels seems like the real near term trade-offs that they should be comparing. There's no need to confuse the issue with speculation/wishful thinking about electric cars.Overnight charging of PHEV is not that far-fetched.

My motivation for posting this story is flex-fuel vehicles is a poor use of biofuels.

Hope this is not sounding like I'm itching for a fight.

Indigo
05-16-2009, 08:00 AM
I'd like to see more electricity generated from non-coal sources too. I'm all in favor of expanding wind, solar, and nuclear. If a *viable* biofuel ressource gets developed, I'd like that too!

ILAveo
05-17-2009, 11:45 AM
Overnight charging of PHEV is not that far-fetched.

My motivation for posting this story is flex-fuel vehicles is a poor use of biofuels.

Hope this is not sounding like I'm itching for a fight.

I don't take it that way. You're just more optimistic than I am.

Though I hope you see my point that bio-electric would mainly displace coal (a desirable goal) while bio-ethanol would displace petroleum (also a desirable goal)--it shouldn't matter whether the electricity is used in a PHEV or a color TV. Optimistic projections about electric car adoption probably aren't necessary for the conclusions they would like to draw.....

Chuck
05-17-2009, 11:58 AM
After seeing the bioelectricity is better than ethanol articles, a professor says that a solar farm is even better.



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