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Toyota Prius got 44 mpg overall in a CR’s fuel-economy test in June while the best non-hybrids offered only 24 mpg. (http://www.baltimoresun.com/business/bal-bz.ym.started20aug20,0,142695.story?track=rss)

Carolyn Bigda - Baltimore Sun - August 20, 2006

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/501/Scion-Xa-003.jpg
Now it is the Scion Xa compared to a Prius II?

There are a lot of attributes to consider in a new car: the color, the engine, the brake system and something that's topping just about everyone's list - fuel efficiency.
In fact, with gas prices averaging roughly $3, according to the American Automobile Association (compared to $2.37 a year ago and just a few cents shy of the record high set last fall), you might be tempted to base your search entirely on the number listed next to miles per gallon.

Naturally, that would make hybrid vehicles, which rely on electricity stored in a battery for some of their power, a first choice. The Toyota Prius got 44 mpg overall in a Consumer Reports fuel-economy test in June. Within the sedan category, the best non-hybrids offered only 24 mpg.

But as research and stories have pointed out recently, when you consider all costs - not just the price of refueling - hybrids might not always be the best deal.

"Buyers are thinking a lot about fuel efficiency these days," said Jeannine Fallon, a representative for Edmunds.com, an online automotive source. "But despite gas prices, you still have to ask, 'What am I going to use this car for?'"

To answer that question, first-time buyers should keep these points in mind:

• How much you can afford?

Hybrids will lower your bill at the pump. But, at purchase time, you could spend thousands more, especially if your alternative is a low-cost compact car.

The list price for the popular Prius, for instance, is $21,725. Meanwhile, the Toyota Scion xA, which gets 30 mpg, according to Consumer Reports, starts at $13,320.

Hybrid buyers get a tax credit (as much as $3,150 for the Prius, for example) to alleviate the sticker cost. But the full credit is only available before the manufacturer sells 60,000 hybrids, after which the tax break begins to phase out.

Toyota has already hit the mark, leaving buyers through Sept. 30 to get the full credit. (For more details, go to www.hybridcars.com.) If you were planning to buy an economy car, it might take years of fewer trips to the gas station to justify the higher purchase price.

"But if you're buying a $23,000 car anyway," said Gabriel Shenhar, senior auto test engineer and special publication program manager for Consumer Reports, "then you don't have to wait for the payback."

• You have to shop around

Even if a hybrid is within your budget, you can't ignore your car-buying senses. "You should do your research and look at what it costs to own that car, including things such as taxes and fees, depreciation and insurance," said Edmunds.com's Fallon.

To get an idea of what the ownership costs will be, check out the "True Cost to Own" tool on Edmunds' Web site (www.edmunds.com/advice).

Also, don't assume that the hybrid version of a model always will be the smarter option.

The hybrid Honda Accord gets 25 mpg., according to the Consumer Reports study, and costs $30,990. The Honda Accord EX (4 cylinder) was nearly as fuel-efficient, at 24 mpg, but will set you back only $23,350. Also, keep in mind that buying a hybrid sport-utility vehicle might not be the best solution if you want both space and fuel efficiency.

"Think about how often you really need that space," Fallon said. "If you're only carting around friends or a bike occasionally, then you're better off getting a smaller car for the everyday commute and renting a bigger car only when you need it."

• Thinking green

Dollars are not the only green item that might influence your decision. Hybrids often have lower emission levels than other vehicles in the same category. To see for yourself, go to www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/best/rating.shtml.

I would think that hybrids are pretty optional if you have an ultra-short commute. If you only drive 5,000 miles per year, something like a Fit or a Yaris would make more economic sense.

It also depends on how long you plan to keep the car. Over the course of 200,000mi I think it's a safe bet that just about any of these hybrids would save enough gas over their non-hybrid equivalent to be worth the added up-front cost. That might not be true of comparing the "performance hybrids" to their lower-performance bretheren, of course.

Considering the B-segment cars does make it harder, though. I priced out a Prius the way I would want it, and the likely cost would be something like $27,000 out the door. A Fit would be roughly $10,000 less, which is harder to justify on strict economics. But if I could squeeze 40lmpg out of the Fit and 65lmpg out of the Prius, I only end up saving $5800 on gas with the Prius over 200,000mi with gas at $3.

**EDIT**
Interestingly, the hybrid wins out over the non-hybrid over the 200,000mi life time if you use the Consumer Reports numbers. Total savings with the 44mpg Prius over the 24mpg B-car (both driven by Mario Andretti?) is $11,400 at $3/gal.

I suppose it also depends on what the hybrid is replacing. For example, if you buy a HCH to replace a small diesel sedan (40 MPG or so), you'd have to have the Civic hybrid a long time to justify the price differential. Taking the other extreme, you'd break even your first year if your HCH replaced a Hummer H2 (6-8 MPG).

Hi All:

___I hate and love to post this kind of reporting because of the bias’ built in … I mean has any of these guys and gals actually sat in a relatively stripped Prius II at < $20K w/ the tax credit (Side and side curtains included) vs. a Fit at $16K +? The Prius II is so far beyond the Fit in terms of everything but 0 - 60 acceleration (like this means absolutely anything to ANYBODY in the real world) it isn’t even close! Not only will a Prius get you to 60 - 70 mpg segments/tanks with just a little of its built in tools on a suburban roadway, the Fit would be lucky to hit 33 because it has absolutely no tools to do anything! I have sat in the Fit more then have I bothered to mention but haven’t driven it yet because of the local dealership policies. Although it has decent rear seat head room, it does not have nearly the comfort, amenities, or capabilities of even the basic Prius II let alone those with some packages added … Why does this stuff continue to raise its ugly head other then given something for someone to report?

___On the flip side, Toyota’s self-imposed unavailability of the Prius II to the masses is really disheartening for any number of reasons :(

___Good Luck

___Wayne

Like everyone else, they have deals with their suppliers. Otoh, with their shorter production times (3 years versus 7 for GM), we'll probably start seeing more hybrids in a year plus, right around the time they release plug-in capabilities. I've also heard about reducing the displacement of the engine and using an electric/belt supercharger to reduce pumping losses and keep peak power the same.

But we all have bias. Let's take the EPA a face value for this comparison 35 versus 55 combined. We seen ~150% EPA from hybrids, and not hybrids, if anything it's the driver who really makes the difference.

Hi Brandon:

___Here is your problem. You own a Civic HX and barely touch the EPA. I take 2 brand new HCH-II owners out for a 15 minute clinic (one driving and another in the back seat) just 2 days ago and the second lady misses 70 mpg by 2 mpg’s running stop light to stop light in a traffic laydened environment. The car had less then 800 miles on it and most certainly was not setup to my specifications! Do you get it? 70 in a an HCH-II and we weren’t FAS’ing, P&G’ing, D-FAS’ing, or drafting anything! It was relatively easy to achieve using just the basics. The second driver used to own an HX and guess what? She GOT RID OF IT FOR THE HCH-II and she is ecstatic because of it! 35 from a Fit is just like the 37 mpg reported by those I hang out with over at DriveAccord.net. They hit it once in a while but their lmpg’s over the long haul suck. The Hybrid drivers are kicking your HX’s teeth in just as they are kicking my Accord’s teeth in an. They not only eating our respective automobiles FE alive, they are doing so without much more then a few foot pedal adjustments, with emissions you or a Fit driver will never come close to achieving, and with amenities and safety design you could only wish you had in case someone does pull something nuts and you happen to get caught in the middle of it all. Care to ask what a Fit driver running 60 mph at almost 3,000 + RPM across the country feels like vs. the same driver in a Prius II or HCH-II? The Prius and HCH-II driver whose car is all but silent is not only far more comfortable and safer but is saving fuel by the gallon vs. the Fit’s in the real world. Go look up some of the Fit drivers in Europe. There is a forum you have access to with all the details … Even those with the 1.3’s overseas are lucky to achieve 45 US once in a great while whereas an HCH or Prius II can hit 45 without doing anything but turning the key and heading out to where you want to go.

___Can I get my Accord up near 70 + mpg’s pulling every stunt in the book? Sure can. And I can get a Prius up to 120 just by moving my right foot a few millimeters back and forth all day long without an issue … Both get me to my same location at their max mpg’s except one can do it with a lot less BS and can do it even faster in fact! The Accord doesn’t stand a chance and neither does a Fit or an HX … It’s all about ease of FE and the Fit can’t come close to what a Prius or HCH-II can do no matter what star you are wishing upon let alone the Prius and HCH-I/II’s limited depreciation vs. anything else they have had to compete against over the last 5 years …

___I took out a loaded up and brand new Prius II out for a test drive around Libertyville, IL. earlier today. Dealership lot to dealership lot was 5.1 miles and she allowed me 94.x mpg’s. I didn’t touch the shifter but once. That means place it into D and hit the start button. Can a Honda Fit, Accord, Civic HX, or anything but another hybrid even come close to doing that? A Fit certainly could not do it unless you know some magic the rest of the world has yet to figure out …

___If you would like, I will pull my Insight’s TCO over the year and half I owned her and you can compare your own HX over the same. Would you like that? Better yet, the next time you have a 150 + mpg RT segment in your own Civic HF or a Honda Fit, let us talk again about who hit their head and doesn’t have a good handle on even the basics of real world FE …

___All said and done, many of us cannot afford or choose not to purchase a hybrid but by doing so, in most cases, we have had to makes sacrifices that are very hard to overcome given what the fuel efficient hybrids offer over and above brand new Fit’s, Civic’s, Corolla’s, Yaris’, Camry’s, Accord’s, and anything else I can think of at the moment.

___With all of the above, do I willingly invite those with Fit’s, Civic’s, Accord’s, Yaris’, Corolla’s, Camry’s, Focus’s, Fusions’, Metro’s, Aveo’s, and Rio’s to name just a few over to learn how to improve their own FE? You bet I do because no matter the car or truck we own, we still have the opportunity to improve our FE and I will do just about everything in my power to see that it happens for the betterment of our local towns and cities, our country, and even our planet let alone that new or used car owners own wallet!

___Finally, let us keep the “falling on one’s head” kind of replies for the back room from here on out, ok?

___Good Luck

___Wayne

You can get great results with conventional non-hybrid vehicles.

The results posted at CleanMPG and other forums those members have participated in are accurate. I've been a witness to a few at HybridFest and in contact with honest people here that would be quick to point out fraud.

While I'll agree that it's unrealistic to expect John Q. Public to get 70mpg in their Prius (or something like it), it's very realistic to see a 10-20% improvement for John Q. Public, driving with the traffic flow, a bit more if he is willing to go slightly slower. If hundreds or thousangs of people go 10% on a tank of gas, Wayne will be more satisified than if he got a 250mpg run on a set of wheels.

Five years ago, I was in silent disbelief hearing about Insights getting 70mpg. It's taken a long time to not only learn how to do it, but even to better. My Dallas work commute was about 55-60mpg five years ago, 65-70mpg is reasonable for John Q. Public doing a few things discussed at CleanMPG, now I'm doing 75-85mpg.

This is very doable.