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"Unlike hyper-milers, they don't use tactics like draft-ing behind trucks or rolling through stop signs to avoid acceleration"...um neither does CleanMPG and the vast majority of hyper-milers...honesty - not posturing please! (http://www.autobloggreen.com/2008/09/12/fuel-stretching-taylors-1-3-of-the-way-around-us-averaging-58-7/)

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/501/wrhtnat_petrol-420x0.jpgSam Abuelsamid - autobloggreen - Sept 12, 2008

This What a Wonderful (Hypermiling) Couple! (http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15254&highlight=couple), who choose to throw hypermilers under the bus and call themselves something else, yet use many of the same driving techniques -- Ed.

Helen and John Taylor have reached the one-third mark of their nationwide trek to demonstrate how much impact driving behavior can have on fuel efficiency, and it's working. The Australian couple are well on their way to setting a new world record. After 2,753 miles and eight days of driving they are averaging 58.78 mpg (U.S.) in a new VW Jetta TDI. The Jetta is completely stock including the OEM tires and transmission. That nearly 59 mpg average is well above the 30/41 mpg EPA ratings for the Jetta TDI and includes time spent in bumper to bumper traffic in places like New York City… http://www.autobloggreen.com/2008/09/12/fuel-stretching-taylors-1-3-of-the-way-around-us-averaging-58-7/


What a shame that praise for the Taylor's trip around the US is laced with anti-hypermiling bigotry. Abuelsamid is at it again.

A comment that I left:

"I don't like the tone of the piece to slander 'hypermilers' as tailgaters and reckless drivers. Those are examples of BAD DRIVING, not hypermiling. I had 63 mpg in my last 700-mi tank fill-up, all without tailgating or running lights (or at least much less than the average Jersey driver).

The Taylors have been making the same types of comments and ought to be ashamed for besmirching members of the same community who are working towards the same cause."

Can I vote for them as jerk(s) of the day?

Can I vote for them as jerk(s) of the day?I won't stop you.

"I don't like the tone of the piece to slander 'hypermilers' as tailgaters and reckless drivers. Those are examples of BAD DRIVING, not hypermiling.


I sent them an email to that effect, explaining what the term hypermiler means in the US. As we know, it means to beat the EPA numbers for a particular car. It does not mean to tailgate or run stop signs. Those habits are more in tune with the average bad American driver who is the opposite of a hypermiler. Having hypermilers bash other hypermilers is dumb. I pointed that out to them as well, that they were hypermilers by our definition.

Harry

58mpg:eek::eek::eek::eek:

IS that the best they can do:eek::eek::eek:

Either the jetta is crap or they don't know how to drive.................me and my fit can top that.;)


Slow and steady wins the race.:D

I just got a nice email back from the Taylors.

They were given the wrong impression about US hypermilers (from the AAA, probably), but now know the story and told me that they meant no insult or bashing towards US hypermilers.

Harry

I just got a nice email back from the Taylors.

They were given the wrong impression about US hypermilers (from the AAA, probably), but now know the story and told me that they meant no insult or bashing towards US hypermilers.

HarryThey need to reinterate this in public soon, lest this sounds hollow and insincere.

Waitasec, is that for real? You got them to reply about this??
.
_H*

You know, some of this comes from other hypermiling sites. Not to put a name to any of them, but they're don't consider drafting to be a taboo.

I informed the Taylors that they should check out this website, where they would find that dangerous techniques are discouraged and then told them to repeat after me, "I am a HYPERMILER. I AM A HYPERMILER. I AM A HYPERMILER AND I'M DANG PROUD OF IT!"

I also informed the so-called journalist that a real journalist would research the issue before he printed it. But since he didn't, I corrected him, told him to research it himself, and informed him that a real journalist would issue an apology. It is possible that I embarrassed him but he needed to learn his lesson.

From the Taylor's latest blog posting: (http://www.fuelacademy.com/latest_adventures.php)

"Prior leaving Australia we were advised what the term ‘Hypermiler’ meant in the USA. It would seem very clear that we were totally misinformed with the definition, and would like to say for the record, that we are proud to be Hypermilers in the USA. We trust and hope that no-one feels insulted by the comments made via the webcast."

Waitasec, is that for real? You got them to reply about this??
.
_H*


Yes. They are online in their travels. Their email address, from the linked article, is:

fuelacademy@gmail.com

Harry

They're doing good PR - helping to demostrate how much fuel we waste and how economical the mainstream can be with an efficient car.

Why can't you take their mis-information about hypermiling at their word?

Seems terribly small to be keying on people trying to help the situation.

Hi Flatty:

___We can but this was the first misinformation rebuttal release they have posted and probably in just the last 12-hours. Prior to that, YOU and everybody else here WAS AN IDIOT which is far from the case.

___Good Luck

___Wayne

that being the case, then they certainly shouldn't mind a little healthy competition from us americans

Earthing, a week ago I contacted the Taylors right after The Sydney Herald did their hypermiling-bash article (even said eco driving was dangerous :rolleyes:) Figured it was respoinding to the previous day featuring the Taylors as hypermilers in a postive light. First email from them they said they were very much against hypermiling, then I explained hypermiling is not what detractors in the media are portraying...no reply. Irony is their picture in the car mirror from The Age is a lot like my picture on the GPS in the Dallas Morning News (sent that link so it would be clear my driving was safe)

Sufice to say - if they at least skimed thru my last email, then at the press conference they knew most hypermilers here and in America are not dangerous nutcases as they condemned hypermiling.

If I had done this, I'd make a correction at the next press conference....less than that does not remedy.

that being the case, then they certainly shouldn't mind a little healthy competition from us americansI'd bet they are familiar with the folly of pre-game trash talk - I'm sure this is also true in sports outside of the US as well. If you follow sports, there are sooo many stories of jocks slaming an opponent, then it's plastered in the locker room and the other team is stewing "we don't get respect". In a previous job, I advanced in a group of eight programmers from the bottom to the top (then left) out of the "I don't get respected"....speaking personally slights like this are a very powerful motivator.

If you follow football, the New England Patriots were underestimated by opponents and the media for a number of years....nobody did a better job of motivating a team by posting any possible slam by opponents and the media getting the team worked up in a "us vs them"...I'd go so far as to say it made as much difference as Tom Brady playing. From a tallent and coaching standpoint, you could also say the Patriots "hypermiled" to their first couple of Super Bowls. :D

I'd bet they are familiar with the folly of pre-game trash talk - I'm sure this is also true in sports outside of the US as well. If you follow sports, there are sooo many stories of jocks slaming an opponent, then it's plastered in the locker room and the other team is stewing "we don't get respect". In a previous job, I advanced in a group of eight programmers from the bottom to the top (then left) out of the "I don't get respected"....speaking personally slights like this are a very powerful motivator.

If you follow football, the New England Patriots were underestimated by opponents and the media for a number of years....nobody did a better job of motivating a team by posting any possible slam by opponents and the media getting the team worked up in a "us vs them"...I'd go so far as to say it made as much difference as Tom Brady playing. From a tallent and coaching standpoint, you could also say the Patriots "hypermiled" to their first couple of Super Bowls. :D


If Hypermiling has now officially become a sport, I call for creating a team! We shall have three levels, the Skilled, Expert and Elitists! What shall we call our team? What shall be our mascot? I vote that the Aptera/Insight/VW 1L become our mascot! :p

Perhaps the skilled can drive the Aptera as a hanicap system. ;)

We shall have three levels, the Skilled, Expert and Elitists! What shall we call our team? What shall be our mascot? That word - "elitists" has become politized lately....be sure to have a tire gage ;) :D

Hi Flatty:

___We can but this was the first misinformation rebuttal release they have posted and probably in just the last 12-hours. Prior to that, YOU and everybody else here WAS AN IDIOT which is far from the case.

___Good Luck

___Wayne
Hi Wayne,

They can rebut all they want. Mud sticks. They've done the damage. It's what the general media wants; They want us to drive like the rest of the sheeple and use as much fuel as them too. I'm going to hypermile even harder next week!

ollie

They seem to be rather locked into the "fuelstretch" thing since Shell company has a website about it. They have a reason to bash Hypermilers.

They would rather draw attention to the "fuelstretch" website with Shell, who is CLEARLY giving them sponshorship support as their shirts show and to VW as well. Shell or VW wouldn't like having them publicly approve Hypermiling, which so far can blow their meager mileage numbers away. I just beat them all last month! Without a TDI!

I would not hold my breath for a complete public apology! It's ok! People will STILL be drawn to Hypermiling because of them whether they want it or not.

Wayne and Co. still have better overall coverage, publicity and ......MPG.

World record my *ss.

Beating the record in a tiff makes hypermilers into the bearded old guys in lycra and black socks who want to argue the superiority of their recumbent bicycles.

Chasing the record weeks after they, to their credit, created it, only highlights a fight between "Aussies vs. USA" or "fuelstretchers vs. hypermilers" which is a irrelevant and deflects from "The Message." How else would the media put it?

If this all highlights a weakness or vulnerabiliy in the public's perception of hypermiling, address that directly. Getting 'better' MPG is not the issue here.

Wayne has done a good job of trying to position hypermiling in the 'mainstream'. Getting into a publicity battle with others attempting to make similar statements that are all for the good does not assist progress. The PR battle itself will become the story, overshadowing 'The Message'.

I'd suggest you ignore the Taylors and go for a different record - "Coast-to-Coast on a Single Tank", for example. It's easier and more poignant than a tour of the lower 48, too. San Diego to Daytona Beach is 2450 miles. (Record set in 1983 by a motorcycle: 11.4 gallons, 214 mpg over 7 days.)

I think the thing here is, though, that it's a sponsored event. And I think the all 48 states is a requirement, and not optional.

Beating the record in a tiff makes hypermilers into the bearded old guys in lycra and black socks who want to argue the superiority of their recumbent bicycles.

Chasing the record weeks after they, to their credit, created it, only highlights a fight between "Aussies vs. USA" or "fuelstretchers vs. hypermilers" which is a irrelevant and deflects from "The Message." How else would the media put it?

If this all highlights a weakness or vulnerabiliy in the public's perception of hypermiling, address that directly. Getting 'better' MPG is not the issue here.

Wayne has done a good job of trying to position hypermiling in the 'mainstream'. Getting into a publicity battle with others attempting to make similar statements that are all for the good does not assist progress. The PR battle itself will become the story, overshadowing 'The Message'.

I'd suggest you ignore the Taylors and go for a different record - "Coast-to-Coast on a Single Tank", for example. It's easier and more poignant than a tour of the lower 48, too. San Diego to Daytona Beach is 2450 miles. (Record set in 1983 by a motorcycle: 11.4 gallons, 214 mpg over 7 days.)

flatty,

You might want to give us more of a break.

Three years ago, the folks at CleanMPG could not have imagined the resistance to hypermiling from they Taylors, the AAA, much of the media, threatened gearheads. Are you suggesting we are responsible for their actions?

Wayne will go thru the 48 states because Gunniess lists it as a record. People come here when they hear about it - like Chi to NYC on The Early Show. It's being done so soon because winter temperatures will make about a 15% hit in fuel economy even before you consider snow and ice. Wayne has other runs planned next year - trust me. ;)

When Wayne does it, the PR is going to be like Chi to NYC - it's safe, legal, it's better. There will be no mention of people driving the 48 states in the past. If anything, there will be specualtion of what the results might have been this summer. It might be possible to do this in 100 gallons or less. I think you are assuming many of the member's candid remarks is what Wayne would say publilcally - he's not.

Wayne has considered a coast to coast run on a single tank, but why don't you check this out on a car? It needs to be done without extreme P&G as in the Insight Marathon...an Insight can get 110mpg in the summer with a tank that holds about 11 gallons....without adding a 30-gallon tank - cross country on a single tank may have to wait for the Aptera.

I've been on forums a number of years and it amazes me at how much "my car is better than yours" and "my driving is better than yours" goes on childishly due to egos, and self-interest. For instance, I've heard a number of people say ecodriving, fuel streching is better than hypermiling because they are "driving normally". Reality check: "normal driving is going 10mph over the speed limit!, so the hypermiling detractors are in a bit of a quandry on that arguement.

Hi Flatty:

___If it were not for the fact I am going to be in LA for the LA Auto Show, I would not be driving our own record attempt. The fact that world class “Hypermilers” are up against the supposedly world class “Fuel Stretchers” wasn’t even a thought. What was a thought however was the fuel stretchers comments blasting “Hypermiling”. If the opportunity arises to do a little “Smack Down” of our own on a trip that was partially pre-planned anyway, do it while “the iron is hot”. Waiting a year just to appease somebody’s idea of PC is not in the American vernacular I subscribe too ;)

___Hypermilers vs. Fuel Stretchers… Now that makes for an interesting title, doesn’t it? Sounds like a 50’s style Hot Rod club going up against the next town over’s Hot Rod club :D

___Good Luck

___Wayne

However, it's been detailed in another thread that the Taylors
publicly apologized and tried to clarify. Does that change the
game? What exactly are we trying to shove back down their
throats at this point?
.
_H*

If I understand it correctly, the apology was in a blog, but the diss was during the press conference...since that was the bigger mouthpiece - wouldn't that be the proper place to do it?

Think I've had my say on the matter.

Quoting from elsewhere:
"To ALL our Fuel Economy Driving Friends.

Prior leaving Australia we were advised what the term ‘Hypermiler’ meant in the USA. It would seem very clear that we were totally misinformed with the definition, and would like to say for the record, that we are proud to be Hypermilers in the USA. We trust and hope that no-one feels insulted by the comments made via the webcast.

Helen & John"

The last sentence needs a little work. If one said something insulting, one needs to retract it and apologize, not just hope that no one was insulted by an insulting remark? "I called you an idiot, hope you don't mind"? And I agree an outright retraction on their next webcast would be appropriate.

But to me this is not about shoving anything down anyone's throat, it's simply setting the record nearer where it ought to be, by the group who should be setting the standards. Personally I'd prefer to really nail it under ideal conditions in the summer, but the opportunity is now.

The point is mass publicity/awareness to show how high MPG can get, how much can be saved. Wayne and Co. is doing this.

This 48 state record will do wonders for awareness of Hypermiling and bring people to cleanmpg.com

Who cares about the Taylors or what they do? If there is some media Hm's vs. FS'ers who cares? It will only amplify the whole subject into the public's eyes even more.

The Taylors have made uninformed jerky statements about Hmilers and should apologize loudly and explain their mistake to the public, but jerky or not they will bring more people into saving fuel and inadvertently here, too.

Hypermilers made the Taylors existence as "stretchers" even possible, ps. and by the way.

Hey, all publicity is good publicity. If this brings more folks looking for better mpg-great. Stirring the pot is a good thing , just as the spike in fuel prices post Ike is slightly good thing. It keeps our "oil" vunerability front page.

Charlie

As a Taylor, I apologize that they did not check out the facts first...even though we are not reated...except way down the line to Noahs days...where we all are.

Hey, all publicity is good publicity. If this brings more folks looking for better mpg-great. Stirring the pot is a good thing , just as the spike in fuel prices post Ike is slightly good thing. It keeps our "oil" vunerability front page.

Charlie

Charlie, I was thinking that same thing as I read through these posts. To put it another way, "there is no such thing as 'bad' publicity!" That there is genuine, substantial savings possible with existing cars is a very good thing to publicize.