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Fuel blend, already implicated in high food prices, linked to rise in repairs. (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25936782/)

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/501/Ethanol_as_oils_replacement_moved_back_to_2030.jpg Alex Johnson - MSNBC - Aug 1, 2008

Ethanol choice at the pump. “Theoretically, avoid ethanol,” he said. “Avoid ethanol.”

We need it. Just not from expensive corn :( -- Ed.

Rick Kitchings has been a small-engine mechanic for about 30 years, and he’s been busier than ever lately.

Recently, a customer came into his shop in Savannah, Ga., with a string trimmer that had barely been used. “It looked like it just came off the showroom floor, but the motor was absolutely shot, absolutely worn out,” Kitchings said.

The owner had fueled the trimmer with an gasoline-ethanol blend, which is becoming increasingly common thanks to a federal mandate to convert to biofuels.

Although the Web is rife with complaints from car owners who say ethanol damaged their engines, ethanol producers and automakers say it’s safe to use in cars. But smaller engines — the two-cycle utility engines in lawnmowers, chain saws and outboard boat motors — are another story… http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25936782/

“There is no massive PR machine working to point out the downsides of ethanol, like there is on the other side,” said Christa Westerberg, a lawyer in Stoughton, Wis., who has represented opponents of ethanol plants in Wisconsin.

Here is the problem. :(

If ethanol does any damage to my car you can be Goddamned sure I'm going to find a lawyer and begin a class-action lawsuit. I swear it. I want that corn **** out of my gasoline-powered car immediately.

My problems is I can't buy gasoline with out 10% ETOH in it.

I do put a little carb/injector cleaner in my mower and trimmer, and I do run a bottle of that stuff through my car once a year. My wife's Pontiac would gum up all of the time, and it did seem to help.

Just my 2 cents (1.09 cents after inflation).

When all the gasoline went to E10 in Maryland, my fuel economy dropped by 3 MPG.

Seems to me that Rick Kitchings pretty well sums up the entire ethanol adventure when he says "Avoid ethanol".

On another note, if I had one dollar to my name would I rather buy food for my stomach or fuel for my car? Hmmm, I'll have to think on that.

Faithful and True.

I've been driving for 32 years now and have used nothing but ethanol blend (we call it gasahol around here) since it became available, which I believe was around 30 years ago. I live in Iowa, and it showed up here early. I've never had any fuel related problem in any car, carbureted or injected. My string trimmer did eat a carburetor this spring, but the folks who replaced it said there's no problem with alcohol, but rather a manufacturing issue. The fuel costs a bit less, and has higher octane if you need it, so there are advantages. However, I agree that corn is not the stuff to make it with.

One of my main complaints about E10, in addition to the reduced FE and possible engine problems, is the short shelf life of the fuel. Its only good for 90 days before the ethanol starts to separate out from the gasoline, so if you gas up at a station that has a low turnover, the fuel you buy might already be a month or two old and you have only 30 days or so to use it before it goes bad. If you have equipment that you only run a couple of times a year, say a boat or RV or a lawnmower if you have a dry summer, then you're going to have old fuel problems sneak up on you very quickly.

Makes me glad all my yard equipment is battery powered, So I don't have to worry about that crap.

I will have to track down gas stations that don't do ethanol around here. Maybe I should buy a diesel car, at least that can't put ethanol in diesel.

@basjoos

Holy crap man, I can go over a month per tank. :(

Around here, when we switched to E10 a couple months ago, the price stayed the same. :(

Well, I'm putting on the flame proof suit. The failures are not totally because of the E. We've been running E10 for years. Many times you didn't even know it.

I've tested a lot of this stuff. Gobs of the stuff you hear come from myths and urban legends of people that know absolutely nothing about engines or from people that do know about engines but have a disdain for E85 (or a disdain for higher food prices!!!). I've tested vehicles some and in small engines intensively. Not in 2 strokes.

Constant and repeated used of E85 in early 90s to mid 90s fuel injected vehicles (if they'll run on it) will destroy the O2 sensors. Maybe not completely but partially. I have two cases of my own and two others I've seen it happen to and heard of many others. The gases coming out are corrosive to the O2 sensors of those years (generally). I can't fully substantiate this but data seems to show it.

If you don't take good care of your fuel system or have a local gas station that likes to "water down" the gas and you're pumping the poop into your tank, the sludge they are selling you is "hanging on" to the sides of your: tank, lines, pump, injectors, etc, etc, etc, etc. The sludge is water soluble. Gasoline won't disolve it. GUESS WHAT? E85 cleans it right out! Then, it all lets loose and slides down the system and sticks in your filter (if you're lucky) or in your injectors if there is enough of it downline of the filter. Don't blame the E85. It just cleaned you out.

Small engines run hot. Though E85 burns way, way cooler than gasoline, thats only in the proper mixture. The higher fuel:air ratio of E85 means that in a standard system (a non compensating FI or a carburetored engine) you're way lean. That can lead to dieseling (pinging) even with E85's 104 octane rating. Again, the 104 rating comes from testing at proper mixture levels. Basically unless you have an adjustable jet on the carb of your lawnmower engine and you know how to adjust it properly, DO NOT use E85 or a mix down above about E20.

I've run gallons of E40 through my Briggs 12HP trailmower. Works great. It really is amazing how much cooler it runs when it runs right. But, my main won't adjust enough to go beyond E40 and, well, it'll backfire, ping and all sorts of nasty stuff. Do that long term? Yeah, you'll bust something. Don't blame E85, blame your lack of prudent choices.

In 2cycle engines (or 2 stoke engines) when you put E85 in, you lean them out. When you lean them out, they promptly burn up. 2strokes depend strongly on the cooling of the piston and head by the incoming fuel mix. They are closer to the "edge" than 4 strokes. So, add a little E85 and you'll push them over the edge, they'll ruff a piston and lock. This I've heard. I have not tried it. There may even be some problems with petrol based 2 stroke oil assimilation into the fuel. I don't have experience with that. One thing I do know is that chainsaws and trimmers get the most fuel system abuse of any powered systems on the planet. Consequently, unless you've got one thats in good shape and you run no less that 32:1 mix (its what I always run) I'd say E85 or a mix down is taboo. Try it, let us know. But, if your favorite string trimmer jams whats left of the rod through reed pack, don't blame E85 and don't blame me.

The fact is, if you're just some moron that wants to dump E85 in your tank to say you burned some, STOP! Don't do it. However, for you guys out there that know what your doing and know what things like air:fuel ratio, dieseling, pinging, main jet and mixture all mean *AND* you've got a clean fuel system, have at it. It might cause you a few problems but they're manageable.

I'm getting so sick of all these urban legends of how it screws up this and screws up that or how its great for this and great for that. For those of us that have had grease under our fingernails for 36 of our 46 years on the planet (like me) some of these myths are so stupid and when they get repeated by people that really don't know what they're talking about it just multiplies the problem.

People like attention. Myths give them that especially if its coupled with E85 because its politically charched. But, to evaluate a fuel on its merits takes research and some scientific basis. Remember that the next time you hear a wild theory about E85 did this or E85 did that. Get all the facts not just the ones you want to hear.

Like the E or hate the E but don't give the the world BS about E85. Stop the myths. Just the facts.

-TR

My carburetted Citroen Ax has had idle jet issues since 1 fill with ethanol, 3 times I've tweeked up the idle screw now.... That gel like substance has caused starving at higher speeds too. Comes and goes. I thought I'd buy an additive to try clear it up? Any ideas anyone?

That might explain why my 2-stroke trimmer died. I replaced it with a 4-stroke for better fe. No I don't hypermile the trimmer, but I would if I could. Maybe Wayne has an idea on that?

30 days? Like Koreberg, I can go longer than that on a tank. That can really louse up the FE.

Boy, glad I don't own any small gas engines. My mower, weedwhacker and edger are electric. Easier on the air, the ears and the pocketbook, and no maintenance whatsoever.

That shelf life issue sucks for gas powered lawn equipment though. I'll be advising my friends who have them to head across the river to Washington for pure gas.

Around here, when we switched to E10 a couple months ago, the price stayed the same. :(

That's nothing. Gas is 20-30 cents higher in Northern Kentucky than in Ohio despite having lower taxes (7 cents if I recall correctly?) in Ohio because of that corn RFG **** they bring in from Chicago.

At this rate my next car will be a diesel.

Boy, glad I don't own any small gas engines. My mower, weedwhacker and edger are electric. Easier on the air, the ears and the pocketbook, and no maintenance whatsoever.

Same here - and as an added benefit, the teenagers down the street no longer come around to "borrow" gas for their quads. If only I could rig up some way to use my electric chainsaw out in the woods, I could get off gas tools entirely. Maybe a use for that old Insight battery pack?

Same here - and as an added benefit, the teenagers down the street no longer come around to "borrow" gas for their quads. If only I could rig up some way to use my electric chainsaw out in the woods, I could get off gas tools entirely. Maybe a use for that old Insight battery pack?

Perhaps if you could rig it up to an inverter and then load the whole thing onto a two wheel dolly?

This morning I dumped 1litre of meths in a 1/4 tank and did 100km today. Idle screw turned down again...

My chainsaw and string trimmer run awful on E10. Push mower never runs at a even rpm anymore. The rider seems to be the only tool not effected by the booze fuel.

My gas station stopped selling E10 and will never sell E85. They have 3 reg. unleaded pumps and one diesel pump. The premium unleaded pump is gone now. In turn they are selling more gas than ever. They are at any given day 10 to 15 cents a gallon higher than any body else in town. But there cust. base is much happier and growing.