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Struggling Car Makers Must Find The Right Products to Succeed. (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121460124671411777.html?mod=autos_feature_articles)

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Joseph B. White - WSJ - June 30, 2008

Detroit's three auto makers are in deep trouble. The question is what do they need to climb out of the hole, besides billions of dollars?

Auto industry executives say, constantly, that any turnaround has to be led by well-designed vehicles that respond to what customers want. Chrysler did it in the early 1980s with the K-cars – economical and reasonably sturdy vehicles that responded to America's desire for practical, efficient transportation. The squared-off Dodge Aries and its siblings laid the foundation for Chrysler's real breakthrough, the minivan.

The original Chrysler minivan was a hit because it caught, almost perfectly, a huge demographic wave: Baby Boomers having kids, and moving to the suburbs. In the world of the mid '80s, there wasn't a good answer to the question, how do I ferry two or three kids, one or more in babyseats, from my new house to the mall, the playdate, daycare, school, etc. The options were buy a big station wagon – already a dying breed -- buy one of the very few and not very civilized large sport-utility vehicles of the time or get a hulking conversion van.

Chrysler offered an alternative that none of its rivals had – a minivan that fit in the garage and drove like a car. Suddenly, the one time basket case and bailout recipient was making enough money to buy rival American Motors Corp.

So, now what? ...http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121460124671411777.html?mod=autos_feature_articles

Back in the mid 80s I test drove a K car when I was shopping for a "family car" to replace my 2 door Turismo. I ended up buying a Mazda GLC 4 door. Smaller, but it seemed to be built much better, and I could get it in a 5 speed. That was the only car I ever bought with out air conditioning! I did end up buying a Chrysler mini-van in 1992.

It is very unfortunate the Chrysler does not have a little longer to do the right things. I mean look at it this way they have only been owned by this Cerbius since last August and the way they are talking and doing this is different. I belong to a customer panel and have read some exciting things to come. I just hope that they are around to have them come to market.

at the moment, almost all the automakers in North America are playing on reactive tactics instead of proactive. i know proactive is a word being thrown around a lot, but it is very relevant in this case.

As for high MPG pickup trucks, Dodge recently annouced a scaled down Cummins diesel motor, 3.5 L as I recall, to be put in their 1/2 T Ram 1500's. The dealer says the unofficial mileage is expected to be 25 to 28 and should be available in the 2010 MY. Pretty good if you have to have a service vehicle.

One thing that I haven't heard from Detroit is the possibility of a joint venture among the Big 3. It may be faster, a key issue right now, and some high technology or other serious improvements may come out of it.

Nevertheless, Detroit needs to pull out the stops and get real busy.

Faithful and True.

My co-worker called his former co-worker at Chrysler a few years ago, and asked him how peak oil was affecting their plans. The guy was in the product planning group -- determining the mix of vehicles they would design. He hadn't ever heard of peak oil.

the big three need to do what they did in the late 70's. go on a diet again
as the 70's closed the big three downsized thier full size models. later with the adition of overdrive to improve MPG, thats as far as it's gone. american cars are still a little heavy and its's time agian to shed some LBS. i found out that general motors acadia is over 4800 pounds! thats about what a full sized chevy was at before 1977. what needs to be done is
1: drop some weight. 2: lower final drive ratios 15% 3:use small displacment engines and turbcharge them,for more torque and better economy and last, build them better. there has been this attitude since then that the big three are best in the business. time has change several times yet, they have not-in technology and design.

I think the 30 MPG pickup is very doable, but it'll have to be a diesel and will have to be a stick shift.

Imagine a Ford F-150 or a Chevy half-ton with a Cummins 4BT3.9 engine and a T-56 six speed. The engine can easily make 140 HP and makes most of it at a low RPM.

To make diesels palatable, we need some relief from the particulate requirements of Tier II. The air quality in the US today is the best it has been in living memory. Relaxing the particulate requirements back to 2006 levels will not cause a single ppb increase in ambient concentrations. But losing the filter thingy ( it costs $4500 wholesale) will restore the efficency of the diesels.

If a 30 MPG truck is possible, the others should be easy.

I may get my one-ton to nearly 30 MPG this summer.

...as the 70's closed the big three downsized thier full size models.

Another thing that is needed is a linguistic change. Stop calling those oversized things Detroit builds the "full-sized" models, as though anyone who buys something smaller is settling for less.

the big three need to do what they did in the late 70's. go on a diet again
as the 70's closed the big three downsized thier full size models. later with the adition of overdrive to improve MPG, thats as far as it's gone. american cars are still a little heavy and its's time agian to shed some LBS. i found out that general motors acadia is over 4800 pounds! thats about what a full sized chevy was at before 1977. what needs to be done is
1: drop some weight. 2: lower final drive ratios 15% 3:use small displacment engines and turbcharge them,for more torque and better economy and last, build them better. there has been this attitude since then that the big three are best in the business. time has change several times yet, they have not-in technology and design.

The weight is largely due to the combination of tougher crash standards as well as consumer demand for dozens of airbags and 200 pounds of infotainment doo-dads. I also think the cars should be put on a diet, although doing so without removing all the junk Americans demand would increase cost because the automakers would need to increase the use of expensive lightweight materials. But even if today's vehicles never lost an ounce, there's another area where modern cars are overkill.

The way I see it, cars are way too overpowered today. My midsize Chevy with a 200hp pushrod six-shooter and 4speed slushbox will fry the front tires off the rims if you defeat the traction control. The same car sells over in Germany as the Opel Signum, and it's available with a 1.8L Ecotec four. That's the same engine they're shipping here under the hood of the Saturn/Opel Astra. And it's Euro-MPG rated at 22 city, 38 highway, 30 combined according to the site (opel.de). Those numbers are close to what I'm seeing in my Chevy-badged Signum, so I can only imagine what I could get out of the smaller engine.

Yes it's true that small engines need to rev to move larger vehicles. Even so, an occasional burst to 6500rpm during that merge onto the interstate won't burn half as many dead dinosaurs as a 500 pound iron V6 lumbering along below 2000rpm for its entire lifespan.

C'mon, why is a 140hp compact car being dismissed as "anemic" by the auto magazines? Exactly when (and why) do you need to cover 1/4 mile of asphalt in under 15 seconds, lest you be called 'sluggish'? Ah, but cut the MPG by 40% and slap a 260hp engine in there and they love the acceleration, but then complain about numb steering or cheap plastics. The HP race sells magazines, but I don't think people are fooled. They drool over the Challenger, but they buy the Civic.

The auto magazines should take a lesson from the old TV series "This Old House". It started 30 years ago as a blue-collar guy overseeing the restoration of an old house with modern updated features. In search of ratings (analogous to circulation numbers for magazines), they got into padding the projects with real Italian marble counters, high end fixtures, exotic landscape plantings, and 50,000 watts of light in every room to "wash the walls" with light. It turned into a tragic comedy as homeowners went 50-100% over budget. People got tired of laughing and stopped watching. The show had lost touch with reality, and the audience no longer identified with the homeowners and the dream of fixing up their old house.

Today, people are already going for the four cylinder Camry/Accord/Altima/Fusion/Malibu/Aura/Passat "family size" sedans, and snubbing the V6 versions. The fours are plenty quick and they are much more efficient. The auto ress needs to wake up to this reality or they will walk the same plank as the ill-fated PBS series.

Personally, I liked Wayne's review of the '09 Corolla. It covered every topic any car buyer needs to know about to decide if the car is worthy of their consideration based on their transportation needs.

The weight is largely due to the combination of tougher crash standards as well as consumer demand for dozens of airbags and 200 pounds of infotainment doo-dads.

What consumer demand? It's largely self-created by the auto industry. They see they can make lots of money installing the "infotainment" stuff as factory equipment and charging several times what the same (or better) electronics would cost in the aftermarket. So they make it an "option" that really standard unless you special-order a car without, and those of us who would prefer cars without are SOL.

Even Aptera is getting into this, adding things like GPS navigation & solar-powered coolers.